Head On Collision - Air Bags Failed To Open

[Mobi]

On Wednesday night I had a head on collision with a pick-up, whilst driving home in my Toyota Fortuner.

The combined speed was at least 180 kms/hr and the Fortuner is badly damaged. The interior cabin was more or less unscathed, but both air bags failed to open. I was very lucky, receiving only cuts, bruises and whiplash injuries, but I was knocked out. The failure of the air bags could have easily caused my death.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about taking this up with Toyota?

Another point was the locked doors. The doors on the Fortuner automatically lock, and after the accident no one could get into the car to help me. They had to wait about 10 minutes before I came round and unlocked the doors. Surely this is a very dangerous situation? If there was a fire I would have been burned alive. Is there any way to overide the locking?

Here's my car:

[Who, me ?]

Hi Mobi

Good to see you back, and to see that you look fine

As I mentioned in a previous post, I think that both issues are very scary.

Airbags are normally designed to deploy in case of collision even at low speed. Might have a real thng to investigate there.

But the fact that doors did not unlock is also very disturbing. Why do not car makers add this very basic feature that would allow the doors to unlock automatically in case of collision. (You can say that if it works as well as airbags in that case, it will be as useful as a handbrake on a canoe !)

Another point is why people who arrived at the scene did wait 10 mn or so without even trying to break a window ? You could have been bleeding and loose all your juice in no time , during all those witnesses were watching, waiting for you to wake up ! !!!

Anyway, good that you are in one piece

[BigSnake]

Yes you were very very lucky, count your blessing.

[Carib]

Hi Mobi, good to know you are ok.

Ever had the car in for maintenance with an electronic problem?? Sometimes they pull the circuitbreakers for the airbags, to prevent them from doing what they are supposed to do, but not when someone is working on the car. After the job they just forget to reset them.

Are you sure the airbags are where they are supposed to be.......Airbags are sometimes hard to come by, so in fixing a crashed car ( which gets checked over by a qa) they sometimes " borrow " them from another car........ Evil ?? Yes but it does happen.

Locking mechanism of the doors, in some cars you can disable that by pulling the fuse, in other cars it can be done by " telling " it to the cars central electronic unit. Most dealers have got the equipment.

Edit for spelling

Edited March 22, 2008 by Carib

[JohnC]

I would follow this up through two seperate avenues, first , ask your insurers if they will pursue the safety issue through the department of trade, second I would contact Toyota head office and if no response contact their HQ in Japan and intimate you are going public with the cars safety failures.

Aside from these serious issues at the end of the day its just a car (albeit an expensive one) and it can be replaced the most important point is you are safe although a bit battered and bruised but safe nonetheless and for that we can be thankful. Get well soon mate!

[nonthaburial]

the Fortuner appears to be getting more than its fair share of bad press just lately. Mobi has had a life threatening experience due to failures, previous reports out of phuket described what appeared to be brake failure and another report suggested that the spare wheel would not fit one or other of the wheels if so required.

If I were Mobi, I would get this damaged vehicle towed to the nearest Toyota agent and dump it on their front step, taking media persons with it of course. remember the lady in BKK who smashed her windshield in front of the media as she could get no satisfaction from the manufacturer ( I think again this was Toyota). After that incident Toyota bent over backwards to replace her car.

[Petch01]

I was very lucky, receiving only cuts, bruises and whiplash injuries, but I was knocked out. The failure of the air bags could have easily caused my death.

You were very lucky indeed . The problems with airbags are that they can not be tested to full extend. Only the electronics can be tested. I would talk with Toyota to start an investigation to find out whether there was an airbag failure or not.

In 2003 I had an accident, "similar" to yours. Side-collision. I drove into a parked car while taking over a bus at the left side. Speed probably between 80 and 100 km/h. Both airbags came out. No passengers. No injuries at all. Lucky me .

I had a central-locking system combined with alarm. When the engine stops, the locks unlock which actually happened at the time of the accident.

Good luck to you.

Petch01

Edited March 22, 2008 by Petch01

[philipm]

in my opinion i wouldnt be quite if my car tried to kill me, rather then protect you.

i would explain it to the insurance company, then talk to toyota headoffice in thailand, which if you dont get a full compensation to your added benfit, if not talk to your lawyer and the head office in Jp.

if you dont do this, im sure they are not gona have any QC measures to make sure every toyota after servicing has their airbags engaged.

and with the lock thing, thats just plain dangerous if not retarded, what sort of system, rather what sort of person wants to be trapped in their car after an accident if unconious, thats a death wish mate.

but hey all in all its your decision.

[Who, me ?]

the Fortuner appears to be getting more than its fair share of bad press just lately. Mobi has had a life threatening experience due to failures, previous reports out of phuket described what appeared to be brake failure and another report suggested that the spare wheel would not fit one or other of the wheels if so required.

If I were Mobi, I would get this damaged vehicle towed to the nearest Toyota agent and dump it on their front step, taking media persons with it of course. remember the lady in BKK who smashed her windshield in front of the media as she could get no satisfaction from the manufacturer ( I think again this was Toyota). After that incident Toyota bent over backwards to replace her car.

It was a Honda crv actually.....but yes, it worked

Edited March 22, 2008 by Who, me ?

[Petch01]

the Fortuner appears to be getting more than its fair share of bad press just lately. Mobi has had a life threatening experience due to failures, previous reports out of phuket described what appeared to be brake failure and another report suggested that the spare wheel would not fit one or other of the wheels if so required.

If I were Mobi, I would get this damaged vehicle towed to the nearest Toyota agent and dump it on their front step, taking media persons with it of course. remember the lady in BKK who smashed her windshield in front of the media as she could get no satisfaction from the manufacturer ( I think again this was Toyota). After that incident Toyota bent over backwards to replace her car.

I totally agree with nonthaburial's ideas. Give it publicity. You would help other Totyota Fortuner drivers too.

Petch01

[Rimmer]

Can you believe that one week before his accident I actually told Mobi to disable those stupid door locks that lock you inside as soon as the car starts moving. He did not do so and could have got fried to crisp if petrol had spilled onto the manifold.

The first thing I did on my new CRV when I got it home a few days back was to disable them. Very simple matter of holding the door handle open and waiting for a click. I assume one must be able to be do the same on a Fortuner as well.

Edited March 22, 2008 by Rimmer

[Thaiboxer]

Glad you're ok Mobi...the picture looks pretty nasty. The way they build cars these days is often questionable at best.

[madjbs]

I don't know... It looks pretty good to me considering the speed, and remember that normally the more broken it looks outside the more of that life taking energy has been dissipated before it reaches the occupants.

[monty]

I recall in the other thread that Mobi stated that he was not wearing seat belts.

It might be a small possibility that the airbags are automatically disabled when seat belts are not worn.

Airbags can cause severe injuries when they are deployed if one is not wearing a seat belt.

This is stated several times over in safety articles and user manuals concerning proper use of seat belts and air bags!

In general, airbags are programmed to deploy when in a frontal collision at speeds of over as little as 12mph (+- 20 kph), a speed clearly reached in Mobi's accident!

[Jareddiving]

That's a good one Monty!!

Could be a logic explanation.

[Mobi]

That's a good one Monty!!

Could be a logic explanation.

Yes, that could be the answer. Does anyone have any experience of an accident when there was nobody in the front passenger seat. Did the passenger side air bag inflate?

After I read a few posts in this thread, it reminded me that about 18 months ago I had a problem with the air bag light not going off, and I asked Toyota Service to fix it when I had my car serviced. They didn't do it, but on the next service I asked again and it was fixed. I am now wondering whether they just disabled the air bag electronics.

Any air bag experts out there?

[Maigo6]

I just been googling about Airbags and seatbelts and looks like some cars Airbags will not work without the seatbelt engaged.

Glad your OK Mobi, looks like a heck of a Bang you had, and your car seemed to stay together quite well, what about the other car, was it very badly damaged?

[khunandy]

On Wednesday night I had a head on collision with a pick-up, whilst driving home in my Toyota Fortuner.

The combined speed was at least 180 kms/hr and the Fortuner is badly damaged. The interior cabin was more or less unscathed, but both air bags failed to open. I was very lucky, receiving only cuts, bruises and whiplash injuries, but I was knocked out. The failure of the air bags could have easily caused my death.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about taking this up with Toyota?

Another point was the locked doors. The doors on the Fortuner automatically lock, and after the accident no one could get into the car to help me. They had to wait about 10 minutes before I came round and unlocked the doors. Surely this is a very dangerous situation? If there was a fire I would have been burned alive. Is there any way to overide the locking?

Here's my car:

Mobi.

Firstly I am glad you are OK.

With all due respect the damage to your car is not consistent with a 180 kmh head on collision. I speak with a lot of experience as a Panelbeater and Tow truck driver for 20 years in a previous life. I have seen and repaired hundreds of vehicles from every sort of accident at all sorts of speeds.

At best it is a glancing blow from a vehicle coming from the opposite direction. Speed unknown but not excessive. I tell you this because when dealing with Toyota or whatever you want to sound credible.

Believe me mate, a combined speed of 180 kmh leaves nothing but shrapnel and body parts. You are lucky and PLEASE SLOW DOWN

Khun Andy

[Thaiboxer]

I'm used to wearing my seatbelt and feel awkward without it. I'm not surprised if airbags have been designed to only inflate when the seatbelt is fastened. They even have vehicles that won't start without the clutch pedal pushed in, but these same vehicles can sometimes have a clutch override switch. Mobi's case sounds a bit like counterproductive safety features.

[monty]

That's a good one Monty!!

Could be a logic explanation.

Yes, that could be the answer. Does anyone have any experience of an accident when there was nobody in the front passenger seat. Did the passenger side air bag inflate?

After I read a few posts in this thread, it reminded me that about 18 months ago I had a problem with the air bag light not going off, and I asked Toyota Service to fix it when I had my car serviced. They didn't do it, but on the next service I asked again and it was fixed. I am now wondering whether they just disabled the air bag electronics.

Any air bag experts out there?

In the car our driver crashed nobody was in the passenger seat, yet the airbag did deploy (as you can see on the pics I posted in the other thread).

It was only a hunch I had. There's a lot to be found on US cars having a switch to disable the passenger side airbag, for example when you have one of those baby chairs in the front passenger seat. I think these switches are compulsory over there!

With all due respect the damage to your car is not consistent with a 180 kmh head on collision. I speak with a lot of experience as a Panelbeater and Tow truck driver for 20 years in a previous life. I have seen and repaired hundreds of vehicles from every sort of accident at all sorts of speeds.

At best it is a glancing blow from a vehicle coming from the opposite direction. Speed unknown but not excessive.

I think the biggest luck was the cars had only a glancing blow.

If you want to see what happens when two cars (a Volvo and a BMW) crash into each other at high speed (both doing 60 mph) with not even that much overlap, then watch following youtube video:

Not much less left from the two, respectably strong cars, let alone any survivors!

[Mobi]

Mobi.

Firstly I am glad you are OK.

With all due respect the damage to your car is not consistent with a 180 kmh head on collision. I speak with a lot of experience as a Panelbeater and Tow truck driver for 20 years in a previous life. I have seen and repaired hundreds of vehicles from every sort of accident at all sorts of speeds.

At best it is a glancing blow from a vehicle coming from the opposite direction. Speed unknown but not excessive. I tell you this because when dealing with Toyota or whatever you want to sound credible.

Believe me mate, a combined speed of 180 kmh leaves nothing but shrapnel and body parts. You are lucky and PLEASE SLOW DOWN

Khun Andy

Well. there is little doubt that the combined speed was at least 180, probably more.

The driver of the pick-up said he was doing 80, and said that I came at him at speed and while I have no recollection of the accident, I do drive a bit fast and would be very surprised if I was doing less than a 100. I had overtaken my wife a minute earlier and she also said I was driving fast.

Maybe it was a glancing blow. The pick-up was damaged on the side, but not as badly as my car.

I guess there must be a way to find out about Toyota seat belts.

[muhammad10280]

I saw the photo, by the grace of God you are still alive. yes, the damage does not look consistent with the speed I agree. Anyway I would be very angry to know safety feature is not working from Toyota, indeed, these can be difference between life and death.

[mikethevigoman]

On Wednesday night I had a head on collision with a pick-up, whilst driving home in my Toyota Fortuner.

The combined speed was at least 180 kms/hr and the Fortuner is badly damaged. The interior cabin was more or less unscathed, but both air bags failed to open. I was very lucky, receiving only cuts, bruises and whiplash injuries, but I was knocked out. The failure of the air bags could have easily caused my death.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about taking this up with Toyota?

Another point was the locked doors. The doors on the Fortuner automatically lock, and after the accident no one could get into the car to help me. They had to wait about 10 minutes before I came round and unlocked the doors. Surely this is a very dangerous situation? If there was a fire I would have been burned alive. Is there any way to overide the locking?

Here's my car:

Glad you are ok mobi, can i ask, did you have any type of bull bar or bumper cover on the front ? i cant see one in the pic but id like to check,

[mikethevigoman]

That's a good one Monty!!

Could be a logic explanation.

Yes, that could be the answer. Does anyone have any experience of an accident when there was nobody in the front passenger seat. Did the passenger side air bag inflate?

After I read a few posts in this thread, it reminded me that about 18 months ago I had a problem with the air bag light not going off, and I asked Toyota Service to fix it when I had my car serviced. They didn't do it, but on the next service I asked again and it was fixed. I am now wondering whether they just disabled the air bag electronics.

Any air bag experts out there?

I think you will find there are sensors in the seats, that is why when you are sat in it the seat belt reminder light flashes,if the belt isnt worn the car assumes there is no pasenger and the bag wont inflate,,i know this is true of some volvos and also the volvo has exploding seat belt tensioners, they only work when the belt is worn, best we all get used to wearing seat belts, as jimmy saville said years ago " cunk click every trip "

[Mobi]

Glad you are ok mobi, can i ask, did you have any type of bull bar or bumper cover on the front ? i cant see one in the pic but id like to check,

Yes I did have a Bull bar at the front. It seems to have disappeared (or disintegrated?) along with the front number plate.

Maigo6

I just been googling about Airbags and seatbelts and looks like some cars Airbags will not work without the seatbelt engaged.

I have just read the car manual and it is very clear that both air bags will inflate if there is an impact of 25kms per hour, or more, regardless of whether occupants wear the seat belts. The manual goes to great lengths to warn occupants that they may suffer serious injuries from air bags if they do not wear seat belts. It also states that the passenger air bag will inflate even if there is no occupant. My impact was severe and way in excess of 25kms/hr, so they definitely failed to inflate.

My guess is that the guys at Toyota service disengaged the air bags to stop the panel light from flashing, when I asked them to fix it. It has been through several services since then (including40K) and the bags should have been checked.

Regarding the locked doors - it only states that the auto locking will disengage if the ignition is turned off or if someone manually unlocks a door. So that's why they didn't unlock. A very dangerous situation if you ask me. The auto locking feature can be permanently overridden, which I will do next time, but I don't think this has been thought through properly by the manufacturer.

[madjbs]

Mobi, bull bars can interfere with the airbag system, although you would think that at that kind of speed they would inflate anyway. They might use it as an excuse though.

[Somtamnication]

Mobi, there is only one thing to say to you: I need the tag numbers so wife can buy lottery number!

Seriously, glad you are ok, man!

[Plus]

I'm so used to seatbelts I feel uncomfortable in movie theaters.

Mobi, did you wear it or not?

[Maigo6]

My guess is that the guys at Toyota service disengaged the air bags to stop the panel light from flashing, when I asked them to fix it. It has been through several services since then (including40K) and the bags should have been checked.

I will insist on an inspection of mine, my next Service is at 50,000 Km, I think I will also investigate over riding the auto door locking once the car hits 25Kph, as you say, it could have cost you your life cos nobody could get you out.

[teej]

Glad to hear you're ok Mobi, you got pretty lucky I'd say.

Dangerous incompetence if your mechanics did disable the airbags to fix the flashing light (normal logic would dictate that a flashing light would be the car's way of saying it has a problem with the airbags, so check it -- Thai mechanic logic: disable the airbags to make said light go away (or pull the bulb behind the light -- yes, i've seen it done with a SAAB fixed outside the dealership). Sad, stupid, and dangerous.

My question to you is, are you going to buy another Fortuner?