Thais Scramble To Allay Tourist Fears After Recent Assaults

[farangmal]

Choochart Suwannakom, commander of the national Tourist Police:

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

It's an utter scandal what this @ssXc#@ said....

LaoPo

We in the west have disposed of any sense of responsibility. At the end of the day, we are all animals put on this planet to breed. You seem to expect that in other parts of the world from the usa people may see the removal of clothes and the exposure of sexual organs as anything other than sexual. If I waved my willy about on Patong beach I would be a child molester and criminal. If a woman exposes herself it seems to be a matter of "personal choice" and everybody elses fault around her if that is a problem.

What the hel_l else could exposure of the body be expected to bring about other than a stimualtion of the sexual organs of the viewer?

Would you have the same sypathy for me if I wandered round Sukhumvit road with 1,000,000 baht in notes strung round my neck in a chain and somebody robbed me.

This is a tragic and dispicable crime by any standards, but attacking Thais for suggesting that their opinions on the matter make them arseholeels if they don;t entirely correspond with westen thinking is a distraction from the crime.

This is not the US, and the populace are pretty conservative here. That inculdes many in the expat community, contrary to the opinions of some. Some people are entitled to their view that not exposing sexual organs may reduce the risk of exciting some wierdo (note, I did say wierdo!) and reduce the risk of the crime.

Can I call you an arsehollee on here if I disagree with something you say? Thought not! So don't try and come back at me saying I am excusing rape and any other standard responses you have to people of different opinions.

The she was asking for it idea doesn't wash any more. Crimes like these are terrible, and until Thai culture allows empowerment of women, Thai men will continue to be tittilated by the merest sign of flesh. As for wearing a bikini on a beach sunbathing, I believe it stimulates melanin.

Men in swimsuits don't spark gay rape, so obviously the idea that believing that the sign of a woman in bikini somehow sparking rape shows it is more associated with power and domination.

This so called conservative culture freely accepts rape of wifes', underage sex as long as it leads to marriage, the idea that sex with young girls promotes longevity, sexploitation, mia nois, the concept of daughters being the property of parents and all the other caveats that come with Thailand. This country is not conservative.

I am sure that the clothes police will be out in force for Songkran, wouldn't it be better to educate the impulsive and permissive males of this country at a young age to respect women better?

I absolutely agree.

I don't want to post what I posted when the last thread was closed but my wife's opinion of Thai Males is 100% correct going by the response of this tourist Police <deleted>.

Thailand is NOT SAFE FOR FOREIGN WOMEN.

[barky]

One of my female Thai colleagues commented that the 2 people killed in Kanchanaburi bought it on themselves for insulting a policeman. I suspect that this is the attittude of Thais in general as several other Thais in my office held the same views.

I get insulted by some Thai (usually male) about once or twice a month (and I'm a homebody, so don't go out all that much), but I don't just get up and kill then. I see clealy the twain shall never meet.

[barky]

In the world of cheap airfares the competition for a safe and stress free holiday destinaiton will only get harder.

As SBK said, they won't go very far advising tourists not to wear bikinis on the beaches or risk being raped.

Maybe Thailand is still safer than other countries, but this year it looks like an open season already.

>>>

The real problem is the relative lack of respect for women and human life in Thai society general. Rapes and murders are only symptoms.

They have a lack of respect of their own, They have almost no respect for aliens.

[barky]

Every toursit is warned about sunbathing in the nud_e in Thailand, every guide book mentions it on the first page.

What they don't mention is that in Thailand it apparently justifies subsequent rape and murder.

Right now it only says "offends cultural sensitivities". Maybe the victims should sure Lonely Planet and TAT for printing this misinformation.

Absolutely agree, Clearly the message is not strong enough. westeners are being sold down the river. Western governments must also take a good deal of the blame also. The big question is how do we living in Thailand and who generally know the pitfalls help get the message across to westeners travelling here (especially women inthis case) that Thailand can be a very dangerous place, in fact deadly.

[billdo2000]

About two years ago I was vacationing in Pattaya. I was on the back of a baht-bus, sharing it with a farang couple from some western country. The woman was actually quite attractive. We came upon a motorbike taxi stand and were stopped for traffic for a minute. It was mid-afternoon and we were on a busy street. When the motorbike taxi drivers saw this farang woman (w/male companion) they started calling out to her like she was literally at their discression. They were very agressively motioning to her (pointing at her and grabbing certain parts of their body). I couldn't understand what they were saying, but I could tell by the tone of their voice and look on their faces what they had in mind.

I saw the wild, alcohol/drug induced look on their faces (I was close enough to see their eyes). I'll tell you; It was scarey. Those guys looked totally out of control. They gave the impression of being caged, wild animals. I had the feeling that these guys were going to jump on their bikes and give chase. This woman was fully dressed and didn't provoke these guys in ANY WAY!!!

If my sister or any other female friend was planning a trip to Thailand, I would strongly urge them not to go.

I lived in a building directly across Beach Road from where the Russian girls were shot in Jomtien in Feb 2007. My building is usually filled with tourists from Russia and I would frequently see them strolling along Beach Road at night and early morning. Since the shooting of those two Russians, I have seen many more tourist police in the area...for the last year. At least they are trying.

[Thai at Heart]

Every toursit is warned about sunbathing in the nud_e in Thailand, every guide book mentions it on the first page.

What they don't mention is that in Thailand it apparently justifies subsequent rape and murder.

Right now it only says "offends cultural sensitivities". Maybe the victims should sure Lonely Planet and TAT for printing this misinformation.

Absolutely agree, Clearly the message is not strong enough. westeners are being sold down the river. Western governments must also take a good deal of the blame also. The big question is how do we living in Thailand and who generally know the pitfalls help get the message across to westeners travelling here (especially women inthis case) that Thailand can be a very dangerous place, in fact deadly.

I think it would be most useful for the embassies to elaborate on the consequences of causing so called "cultural insensitivity". It leads to very extreme responses which can appear completely out of measure.

In the rest of the world it would lead to a small discussion to explain what was wrong. In the current climate, it appears that causing cultural insensitivity is leading to very extreme sanctions. I once again question how is a green horn backpacker supposed to work out what is culturally sensitive or insensitive when there are so many contradictions and illegalities to be seen in the country.

It seems that the emotional responses normally reserved for Thai altercations are now being meted out on foreigners with regularity.

[hanibal7]

The tourists will vote with their feet,despite a pathetic statement like that.No country is a 100%

safe especialy for females,but to say you could get raped or murdered for wearing a bikini,or going topless in thailand makes me believe the people who do this terrible act are the lowest scum on this planet.

My feelings on this latest tragedy is for female tourists not to visit this land of smiles and rapists.

[simon43]

Can I just comment that the much-criticised statement quoted by the Tourist Police was made by the Head of the Thai Tourist Police, and not by the head of the Phuket Tourist Police, who is much 'closer' to the recent 'action'.

TV members may know my involvement and I can say that local Tourist Police officers here are hugely sad at this recent event, and greatly frustrated by the lack of competent manpower and resources.

This afternoon at Naithon Beach there were many topless tourists (female!). At Mai Khao, it was back to normal, almost deserted. I wonder how quickly this murder will be forgotten.

Simon

[endure]

The News Clipping forum is a place for serious discussion. It is not a place for off-topic rants and flaming. Discussion of bargirls/boys is against forum rules. Deletions and membership suspensions are available to those who don't understand this.

[ade100]

Let us not forget that it is not just women that are being attacked and murdered on Phuket. Attacks on Westerners have become very common on this island. In January a Danish man was murdered at his hotel in Patong, in September 07, a Norwegian man was murdered while riding home on his scooter. There are almost daily reports of muggings, stabbings, robberies, beatings, etc.

I am not going to speculate on the reasons but the truth is, this place is dangerous for Caucasians, male or female.

Edited March 24, 2008 by ade100

[sbk]

All one has to do is read the Pattaya News Clippings forum to see the number of assaults in that city as well.

I wonder, as tourist numbers increase, obviously the numbers of crimes against foreigners will rise but do you think that it is also a case of familiarity breeds contempt? It used to be that not so many tourists were attacked or murdered due to, perhaps, fear of the punishment. Now, with the ever increasing numbers of foreigners and tourists coming to the country, maybe with the increasing exposure tourists are viewed as less untouchable.

[simon43]

Tourists bring money and maybe the opportunity for a sexual encounter. I wonder how many muggings and attempted/successful rapes of tourists take place that go unreported?

Unfortunately, Thais seem incapable of forward-thinking! It seems to be a case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Simon

[farangmal]

All one has to do is read the Pattaya News Clippings forum to see the number of assaults in that city as well.

I wonder, as tourist numbers increase, obviously the numbers of crimes against foreigners will rise but do you think that it is also a case of familiarity breeds contempt? It used to be that not so many tourists were attacked or murdered due to, perhaps, fear of the punishment, but now, with the ever increasing numbers of foreigners and tourists coming to the country, maybe with the increasing exposure tourists are viewed as less untouchable.

As someone who lived in Pattaya years ago for a long time I seen the rise in violence was proportionate to the rising tourist numbers.

Places like Pattaya attract the worst kind of Foreigners as ex-pats. A lot of them are crooks and swindlers. It also attracts the worst Thais also.

It is just a HUGE brothel and like any huge brothel the Mafai and killers are not far away.

I believe that the worst in Thai society is getting bolder regarding commiting crimes against Foreigners. Because of the Countries infrastructure, the lack of education and the Nationalism and outright racist views that exists in Thai culture the last thing they need is to see scantily clad Women parading on the beaches. That's the tipping point.

Problem is the tourist machine back Home is selling places lke Pattaya, Phuket as safe tranquil Paradises. And the young couples and Women are buying it.

Most Thai people are peace loving and genuinely warm. It's a pity that there isn't an honest Police force that puts a Foreigners rights in line with locals and starts DETERRING crime not coming away with stupid statements like that.

Even recently there was an Australian Women claimed she was raped in Pattaya and the Police claimed she made the story up and left without paying her hotel bill.

Could somebody tell me the name of a hotel in Pattaya where you don't pay up front the day you check in?

[john b good]

This sort of behaviour is not uncommon in Thailand.

To say that any female wearing a bikini (showing a bit of skin) is responsible for her rape and her subsequent murder is pre-historic. BUT that is the way things are here. TIT

Thai males (admittedly not all) are a bunch of evil bast_ards when push comes to shove.

It was less than 20 years ago when a young Thai girl was gang raped by 30 - 40 upstanding Thai men (including school teachers, police, civil servants etc) and then tied to the railway tracks running through her town where she was then killed by a train.

The gang rape continued over 3 - 4 days.

Have Thai men really got anything to be proud of "I don't think so"

The only other case that comes to mind is that of Phoolan Devi who quickly extinguished the lives of all the perpetrators in her own rape. And full credit to her (because same as here no one in a position of power raised a finger to assist her)

You can go on for ever about the archaic thinking of the 'Thais at the top' "no alcohol to be sold between 14.00 & 17.00 lest some Thai students partake, no selling of alcohol when there are elections (the west dropped this crazy practice 30 - 40 years back) a woman carrying a condom in her purse is immediately suspected of being a 'ho' "

The only reason now that they (the Thai authorities) are showing any concern is that they are worried about their precious tourist $$$$$

Do not be mislead into thinking that these people give a toss about the victims.

It has always been and for the foreseeable future will always be "hengatua"

Edited March 24, 2008 by john b good

[geriatrickid]

Phuket touts itself as a world class beach resort destination. This will not last long if women are getting raped and/or murdered for wearing bikinis on a beach in the middle of the day. Phuket needs to take a good hard look at what it is promoting, and what security it offers for its guests. You cannot be a 5 star beach destination catering for foreigners if those foreigners find themselves getting murdered on the beach.

Yes, you are right, but in this specific case, this was not even a 1 star location and perhaps the isolation of the beach lulled the victim into a false sense of security, much the way rural dwellers think they are protected from "big city" crime. One cannot have the same expectation of safety at an unsupervised non frequented location as one may have sitting on the beach at say the Dusit Laguna in Bang Tao, where the hotel has security to keep hawkers and gawkers away. Phuket ranges from the fairly safe sedate family atmosphere of Karon to the tawdry debauchery of Patong and one has to take the location into account. As this could have been my friend or sister that doesn't take away from the anger and sadness I have at an event that robbed a woman of her basic human rights and dignity.

[Plus]

Maybe they should put up signs - Beware rapists and murderers.

[farangmal]

Maybe they should put up signs - Beware rapists and murderers.

I just think they need to come out of the dark ages where women are concerned. Everything is really heavily censored in Thailand. No nudity in magazines, arrested for playing cards etc etc.

It's the old East meets West culture and in the last two or three years the place is full of bikini strutting beautiful young Western Ladies walking around.

This doesn't sit easy with a lot of the locals.

Just last year Russian models and their crew were arrested for doing a fashion shoot at the City Hall offices. Locals complained how they were dressed.

But I don't see Thai girls dressed in bikinis on top of the trucks with loud music getting arrested! EVER.

I guess our culture and we don't go down too well in Thailand.

I just wish that travel companies would show some common sense and would be holidaymakers would wisen up to the possible dangers.

[Insight]

Tourists bring money and maybe the opportunity for a sexual encounter. I wonder how many muggings and attempted/successful rapes of tourists take place that go unreported?

Unfortunately, Thais seem incapable of forward-thinking! It seems to be a case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Simon

A few months ago (perhaps weeks even) I'd say that you're taring them all with the same brush, but sadly now I'm closer to agreeing with you.

Put your clothes back on, stay in an expensive hotel and visit a few spas and temples is the best way for tourists to stay safe.

[Thai at Heart]

Tourists bring money and maybe the opportunity for a sexual encounter. I wonder how many muggings and attempted/successful rapes of tourists take place that go unreported?

Unfortunately, Thais seem incapable of forward-thinking! It seems to be a case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Simon

A few months ago (perhaps weeks even) I'd say that you're taring them all with the same brush, but sadly now I'm closer to agreeing with you.

Put your clothes back on, stay in an expensive hotel and visit a few spas and temples is the best way for tourists to stay safe.

Well in that case, 90% of the tourists shouldn't come.

[farang prince]

Phuket touts itself as a world class beach resort destination. This will not last long if women are getting raped and/or murdered for wearing bikinis on a beach in the middle of the day.

Phuket needs to take a good hard look at what it is promoting, and what security it offers for its guests. You cannot be a 5 star beach destination catering for foreigners if those foreigners find themselves getting murdered on the beach.

..and its crime rate is still far lower than vacationing in a European or U.S. equivalent resort. I'm definitely no "thailand is perfect" poster but some of the comments here make me wonder if people ever leave their homes. Random violent crime can happen anywhere in the world. There is a certain colonial mentality that i'm detecting that the "locals" should be quarantined somewhere so the moneyed expats/tourists can do whatever they want.

Statistical source please for Phuket's crime rate and how it compares to other tourist destinations?

[farang prince]

We in the west have disposed of any sense of responsibility. At the end of the day, we are all animals put on this planet to breed. You seem to expect that in other parts of the world from the usa people may see the removal of clothes and the exposure of sexual organs as anything other than sexual. If I waved my willy about on Patong beach I would be a child molester and criminal. If a woman exposes herself it seems to be a matter of "personal choice" and everybody elses fault around her if that is a problem.

What the hel_l else could exposure of the body be expected to bring about other than a stimualtion of the sexual organs of the viewer?

..................................edit......................

Can I call you an arsehollee on here if I disagree with something you say? Thought not! So don't try and come back at me saying I am excusing rape and any other standard responses you have to people of different opinions.

Standing Ovations!

This "undresses" the real problem behind the problem!

Where there is NO fire, there is NO smoke!

Anybody here on this thread ever SEEN "Chao Talay" - the "Sea Gypsies"? and Anyone accustom to THEIR Social rules, their understanding of sexuality, of exposure?

Sad to see so little understanding and respect of Thai-Culture and the ethnic minorities!

Well obviously that makes it allright that the girl got stabbed then. I am sure her family would wish to apologise for her ignorance, or if she were still alive she could do it in person.

Huh??????

Where did I state this? Please read with out emotional perjury!

Yes, yes, yes this is the kind blindfolded of response I have been waiting for.... as the post in the "quote" points out, if you run around on Copa Cabana with a golden, diamond studded watch and a massive Pierre Cardin golden chain around your Neck and sporting several golden Rings with precious Gems on them.... I could tell you that you wont make it the next 20 Minutes, would you still go.....?

besides in MANY tourist guides it states CLEARLY that nud_e or either topless is a NO-NO in Thailand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am NOT condoning anything, DO NOT try to turn my words around, it is a very, very sad event - however as it has happened in the not too far past... with similar pattern it would be WISE to handle this issue with UTMOST ATTENTION and Care in regards to THAI CULTURE!

Like my friend said: "If she wouldn't have been there to expose herself, she would still be alive!"

Yes, and if she had not chose to come to Thailand for her vacation she would still be alive.

[YaiJung]

One of the problems is that some people are too concerned about $$$ and really couldn't give a rats ass about the safety of tourists. Even here on TV in the phuket forum these days u wont find much about the horrific crimes on tourists that happen weekly. Now u must look in the subforum to find the news and the subforum doesnt exactly stick out. I can see how a newbie tourist to phuket looking for info on our own thaivisa could easily miss the much needed warnings.

Thailand has always been and always will be an "at your own risk" place. If u choose to drive a motorbike u might die. If u choose to sleep with hookers u might die. If u walk in the jungle barefoot u might get bit by a snake and die. There are many dangers and its not the disneyland that many travel agents make it out to be. U must take responsibility for yourself if u visit. This means not tempting uneducated morons with something that they will never have. This could mean not wearing expensive jewelry or not parading around in bikinis like u are at Miami beach. Folks on here can go on and on about how its unacceptable, but the fact is that its a major risk and the right or wrong of it is irrelevant when a woman is fighting off an attacker.

The crime in Phuket has soared in the last couple yrs and I, like another poster, would urge any females I know not to visit and if they must visit I would make sure they are aware of the dangers. I think its definitely a step in the right direction to give out the whistles and info to tourist women.

[Regardie]

Go swimming.But don't throw blood in the water.Commonsense?

[Zpete]

I would like to make a further comment to mr. dupont since he agrees more or less with the commander of tourist Police with his disgusting comments towards Farang women and the way they dress, on the beach.

Thailand receive some 14 Million tourists/year and unfortunately has seen rapes, murders and other horrible cases lately which, also unfortunate, attracted a lot of negative publicity, worldwide and right so.

BUT: France, Spain and Italy have some 80 - 60 and 40 MILLION tourists per year respectively.

Now, do you think those countries have the same 'type' of rapes and murders (in equally % of numbers) as Thailand has if some horny guys see -under-dressed girls on the beaches ? I don't know where you're from but I could take you to some beaches in Europe....

NO.

It has -also- to do with the responsibility of the Thai Government, education of the male-population and adaption to the behavior of inbound tourists as well as a certain kind of higher civilization in the afore mentioned three countries.

Of course (attempted) rape does occur in those countries also but 'followed' by murder in far, far less cases than Thailand and it will certainly not be excused by Tourist authorities like the nut head from the Thai Tourist Police

What a jerck (sp!)

LaoPo

LaoPo,

I CONCUR WITH ALL YOU HAVE POSTED.

I was thinking of all the clothes optional beaches in other countries, from NZ to Germany, there is no reason for that excuse.

All tourists of any country, MUST repspect local customs and laws.

NO NUDITY, so be it. ....... stay clad, stay safe. (maybe)

Seeing a nekkid body, male or female, is NO excuse for any assault, let alone murder.

Keep up the informed comment, posts.

Cheers.. LP

Edited March 24, 2008 by Zpete

[barky]

Advice for young female tourists visisting phuket thailand:

Phuket is perfectly safe although you will be issued with a nice new whistle on arrival - no charge as yet - to alert the police - sitting at the nearest roadside check point (doing their daily collections) - should a local rapist or murderer approach you.

When sun bathing on a beach please ensure you are fully dressed otherewise the thai authoritys bare no responsibilty should you be raped and/or murdered.

If a policeman comes to your aid wearing a 'little kitty armband' please run away as these are naughty policemen.

If a good policeman turns up please dont get involved with them as it is not uncommon for them to shoot you and your boyfreind if you have an arguement or they lose face! (*See kanchanaburi and Pai)

Finaly please remember that the most popular thai political party in modern history was called 'Thais Love Thais Party' (Thai Rak Thai) and its former leader encouraged all thais to look at foreigners as purely a source of income: " it is the resposibility of thais to take as much money as possible from foreign tourist" (source BKK Post)

Have a pleasent holiday - oh, and dont take any unregistered taxis from the airport as, not so many years ago, many foreign nationals where found buried in shallow graves near to the airport after being robbed and murdered. * You are probably unaware of this as your government played it down for the sake of diplomatic relations!

I couldn't have said it better myself!

[Ijustwannateach]

Our hosts are not all hare-brained- there was a very nice letter from a Thai in the Bangkok Post today saying that he felt like crying when he read about the stupid whistle idea, and recommending that crimes against tourists be required by law to carry the maximum possible penalties, as well as some other positive pro-tourist steps.

[Galong]

But I don't see Thai girls dressed in bikinis on top of the trucks with loud music getting arrested! EVER.

Exactly farangmal! Well stated.

I don't the trannies flashing their fake tits at families as they walk up Soi Bangla. I don't see the cops doing anything to the Thai girls who dress like obvious prostitutes.

So, my point is, the Thais are not exactly puritans either. Let's be a bit more fair to our own here please.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Galong

[farangmal]

But I don't see Thai girls dressed in bikinis on top of the trucks with loud music getting arrested! EVER.

Exactly farangmal! Well stated.

I don't the trannies flashing their fake tits at families as they walk up Soi Bangla. I don't see the cops doing anything to the Thai girls who dress like obvious prostitutes.

So, my point is, the Thais are not exactly puritans either. Let's be a bit more fair to our own here please.

One thing I have noticed on this forum is sometimes that we, us, Foreigners or Farangs whatever you want to be labelled as have undying support for everything Thai to the extent they think they are Thai.

Wakey wakey rise and shine Gentlemen you have as much chance of being Thai as I have of winning the lottery.

If they want holidaymakers (or their cash) then they should have people in charge of the tourist Police who LOOK AFTER the interest of holidaymakers if they have been wronged.

The problem is the closed mind set and the Thai rak Thai attitude that makes it hard to even contemplate this.

Once I had to call the Police because my friends apartment was being burgled. Two motorbike cops turned up and when I told them what happened (in Thai) they refused to speak to me. Lke I was invisible. They didn't answer, respond or nothing. They sat on the motorbike waiting for my Thai Wife to explain what had happened.

Another instance I was playing pool with a tourist Policeman in a bar in Soi Diamond. He wanted to play me for money and I said no. Then he suggested if he beat me he could have my Wife for the night.

Guess my Wife's reply? And He was deadly serious.

I'm afraid this is what Foreigners are up against.

They arrest Russian hookers but don't acknowledge Pattaya has Thai Prostitutes and such like. It's completely unfair and lump it or like it it's their Country.

Me myself have a great love for Thai people. A Wife and two great kids. Thailand's been good to me but the dangers for Foreign Women are obvious.

To change the mind set takes education from a young age. They need in my opinion to open up to the World and end the Caveman mentality.

Not in my lifetime or yours will it happen.

Part of the reason I for one am back in the UK.

I hope this post doesn't get deleted it's how I read the situation. No harm intended.

[barky]

All one has to do is read the Pattaya News Clippings forum to see the number of assaults in that city as well.

I wonder, as tourist numbers increase, obviously the numbers of crimes against foreigners will rise but do you think that it is also a case of familiarity breeds contempt? It used to be that not so many tourists were attacked or murdered due to, perhaps, fear of the punishment. Now, with the ever increasing numbers of foreigners and tourists coming to the country, maybe with the increasing exposure tourists are viewed as less untouchable.

Agree totally sbk, that's why the situation is getting worse. There is little or no respect for foreigners from top down and coupled with this the locals see that their countrymen frequently don't get caught or they are police and plead self-defence or the average Thai will plead loss of face and the rest of the country will say "well that's OK then the alien deserved it".

[barky]

Tourists bring money and maybe the opportunity for a sexual encounter. I wonder how many muggings and attempted/successful rapes of tourists take place that go unreported?

Unfortunately, Thais seem incapable of forward-thinking! It seems to be a case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Simon

Simon, as part of their culture they don't think about tomorrow.