Minimum wages for foreigners hiked

[george]

Companies have until July 10 next year to increase the wages of foreign employees to new minimum rates, Pol Capt Krissarat Nuesen of the Phuket Provincial Immigration Office, told the Gazette yesterday.

The new minimum monthly wage rates, which vary according to nationality, will be:

• Japanese, Americans and Canadians: 60,000 baht (currently 40,000 baht).

• Europeans and Australians: 50,000 baht (35,000 baht).

• South Koreans, Taiwanese, Singaporeans and Hongkongers: 45,000 baht (35,000 baht).

• Malaysians: 45,000 baht (30,000 baht).

• Indians and people from the Middle East: 35,000 baht (30,000 baht).

• Mainland Chinese, Indonesians and Filipinos: 35,000 baht (25,000 baht).

• Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese, Cambodians and Africans: 25,000 baht (20,000 baht).

• Journalists working for newspapers: 20,000 baht (12,000 baht). Wages of journalists working for magazines and other media are categorized by nationalities.

Capt Krissarat said, “If companies don’t [increase their foreign workers’ wages] because they don’t want to pay their employees more money, they will have problems when they pay tax and when renewing their employees’ visas or work permits.”

Source: Phuket Gazette 2003-07-22

[keestha]

George,

Would this apply only in Phuket or everywhere in Thailand? And do you know or does somebody else maybe know how much personal income tax would have to be paid every month on a 50000 or 60000 Bath monthly salary?

[ericploy]

I don't think I'm understanding this wage limit correctly.  I work in Bangkok, and I'm currently making 38k per month.  Does this mean that I'm being short changed 2k per month, due to me being an American?  I've never heard of this before.  Does this not apply to school teachers?

Please elaborate on this wage limit topic.

Thank you  

[george]

George,

Would this apply only in Phuket or everywhere in Thailand? And do you know or does somebody else maybe know how much personal income tax would have to be paid every month on a 50000 or 60000 Bath monthly salary?

Everywhere in Thailand, not just Phuket.

Here is a link to the Thai income tax:

http://www.thaivisa.com/397.0.html

[george]

I don't think I'm understanding this wage limit correctly.  I work in Bangkok, and I'm currently making 38k per month.  Does this mean that I'm being short changed 2k per month, due to me being an American?  I've never heard of this before.  Does this not apply to school teachers?

This is the minimum gross salary per month you must obtain and pay tax on in order to satisfy the Revenue Department, Immigration and Labour Department. Otherwise they don't renew your work permit/one year extension.

I don't think school teachers are different from other working groups. Time for a pay rise!

[MaiChai]

First I have heard of this rule. It seems a bit ridget. Does this mean if you are say a foreign charity worker, you should earn this high (Thai) salary? Obviously you need to have a WP to work for a charity, but then charities don't normally have the money to pay high salaries? So it seems a silly rule that isn't going to fit all requirements. Do people who make these rules have their heads up their @rses; that is do they not have any idea about how the real world works when it comes to employment?

[JemJem]

Dear George and others,

Is this some kind of joke by the Phuket Gazette ? First, I thought George made this up just to mess around and fool some people as an act of humor. But then I went into the Web site of Phuket Gazette and saw the news there.

This is either a joke by the Phuket Gazette or if it's true, it is a ridiculuous and worst of all, a racist practice !

Actually, it leaves out certain nationalities (eg. South American nationals and New Zealanders) so in my opinion, there is a 90 percent chance this is a joke by the Gazette.

But if it is true, I have a lot to write on this issue, as a hard-core anti-racist.

Regards,

Jem

[george]

This is either a joke by the Phuket Gazette or if it's true, it is a ridiculuous and worst of all, a racist practice !

Actually, it leaves out certain nationalities (eg. South American nationals and New Zealanders) so in my opinion, there is a 90 percent chance this is a joke by the Gazette.

But if it is true, I have a lot to write on this issue, as a hard-core anti-racist.

No joke. This is Thailand.

[RBWilson]

It certainly will not apply if the Thai Government is the employer (i.e. Teachers in Govt. schools).

[LPCustom69]

Maybe since the Prime Minister has declared that Thais are to learn English, the teachers at the Government schools will get a healthy raise. But it would be just like them to mean that everyone has to pay the big wage except the Government.

:cool:

[chuang]

Well foreign workers in Thailand should be smiling..

[DaBlunt]

Seeing as how 'this is Thailand', how long do you think its going to take our respected employers to pull their fingers out and hike up our wages.

I can't imagine they're going to be too happy about it. But then we didn't make the rules. LOL.  

[Johnt]

Hi George

Does it also mean that foreigners who have their own company, have to have this minimum sallary.  

[george]

Hi George

Does it also mean that foreigners who have their own company, have to have this minimum sallary.  

Yes, you have to comply with the new rules. So well ahead of July 2004 give yourself a pay rise and be sure that you pay the correct personal income tax in that higher gross amount.

[dazdaz]

I thought i'd wait before posting to this one so I could think about it some more because my initial reaction was complete and absolute shock, disbelief and then anger.

Is this legal under international law?  Would that be under United Nations related law?

I should feel happy that expats are being protected but for some reason I immediately fely angry when reading that article.  Am I reacting emotionally without any reason?

I think the Thai's believe this is a great step forward in globalisation aka culture integration and protection, the problem from what I can make out, is that the rest of the world meaning the large industrialised countries are already 5 steps ahead.

It's because people from different cultures are automatically given different minimum wages.  It's putting a price on different cultures, bring them down to hard currency I find really and highly offensive.  In my opinion you can't cut people down to individual cultures, we're all human and humanity deserves a minimum wage, not a particular nationality.

Do other countries discriminate in this way in defined law?

How do other people feel about this?  I'm going to have to find something good to post about, we can't have more bad news on here.

Regards

[sabaijai]

The list seems very abitrary, unlinked to any sort of current income scales around the globe. Otherwise Norwegians, who earn the highest per-capita income in the world, would be in category 1. Several other countries have higher PC incomes than the US, Canada or Japan.

Such a regulation probably wouldn't stand up in saan bokrawng or adminstrative court (for contesting regulations or police actions contrary to the 1997 Thai constitution). I'm sure there are more than a couple of Thai lawyers out there who would gladly take this on.

[sabaijai]

Daz there's no such thing as ' international law'. There are various treaties between different countries and different groups of countries but even these are only as good as the 'word' of the paricipating governments, ie there's no way to enforce them. The UN has no enforcement powers whatsoever, although in dire security crises, as we have seen, UN members may vote to deploy UN troops. But something like this is not even a UN issue. The ILO might be interested but there again all they can do is issue a public statment, they have no regulatory powers.

The only possible arbitrator in this case is the Thai administrative court, established to ensure that the 1997 Thai constitution isn't violated, among other things. If you felt it was unconstitutional you would have to take it to court here in Thailand. My gut reaction is you can probably find something in the constitution to back you up.

There's no way most small employers in Thailand whether foreign or domestic can afford raises to meet these levels. I imagine most employers will not raise pay to the new levels and it will simply be up to us to pay tax on 50-60K/month even if we earn far less. Or perhaps our employers would make up the tax difference, instead of the pay difference.

BTW if you fall into the 50-60K/month category, this would push you into the half million baht per year tax bracket, essentially taking you from 10% to 15%. if you now earn 30K a month but have to declare 60K a year, your tax would effectively triple.

[JemJem]

This whole thing is weird and WRONG.

Firstly, the practice is racist. Why should certain nationalities 'deserve' more pay than others ?

Secondly, many nationalities are left out on the list.

Thirdly, it says 'Companies' in the beginning. This includes ???

I hope this ridiculuos and racist practice will be scrapped in the near future.

Regards,

Jem

[JemJem]

Sorry.

When I wrote "Thirdly, it says 'Companies' in the beginning. This includes ??", I meant to ask and wonder which places this term 'Companies' includes.

Regards,

Jem

[Roger13]

• Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese, Cambodians and Africans: 25,000 baht (20,000 baht).

So if everybody has to be paid the same,

that is Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese,

Cambodians and Africans to be paid 60,000

How many of them will get work?

Maybe the situation has to be viewed as Positive

Discrimination in favour of citizens from poorer countries

to secure work for them and to protect them from the

Higher - and higher Rates - of Taxes.

[LPCustom69]

Roger13 -- The Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese, Cambodians and Africans are to get 25,000 a month, not 60,000.

:cool:

[ericploy]

This is Thailand   Many things will happen here, even if it is stated in the law books its illegal.  It's just a way of life here.  

It's stated sometimes bluntly, that Indians, Filipino need not apply for certain jobs.  Its also stated indirectly that if you're black, you probably won't find a job in Thailand as a teacher.  Even if you are U.K. or American.

Do you really think this law will be put into effect?  It sure isn't now.  Anyone look at some of the local job ads?  Yes they do say things like "native English speakers only" etc.  However, I've never seen anything about American = X baht, U.K. = Y baht.  We're all just lumped together as "native English speakers".

If I get employment at 60k because I'm American, how will my U.K. counter-parts feel about me?  Probably the same way Thai teachers think about farang teachers now.

Needless to say, this is Thailand, and thats how things are done here.  You can yell and scream all you want, but at the end of the day, you're farang, not Thai, so we don't count.... unless your rich and old.

[Roger13]

Roger13 -- The Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese, Cambodians and Africans are to get 25,000 a month, not 60,000.

:cool:

LPCustom69

I did NOT say they should !!!!

I suggest that you read the whole Thread and

what I wrote again...

I quoted the Correct rates (in the White Box)

I Then went on to say:

"So IF EVERYBODY HAS TO BE PAID THE SAME,

(as other posters were advocating)

- that is Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese,

Cambodians and Africans to be paid 60,000

- then - How many of them will get work?"

[Rambutan]

"So IF EVERYBODY HAS TO BE PAID THE SAME,

(as other posters were advocating)

- that is Burmese, Laotians, Vietnamese,

Cambodians and Africans to be paid 60,000

- then - How many of them will get work?"

That's it! It looks like nowbody realises that this is a means to force Thai emoployers to give jobs to Thais whenever possible.

It is certainly not meant to kindly increase the sallary of forreigners.

[LPCustom69]

Sorry Roger13, it was late at night here. I agree with your sentiment though. I don't think a lot of them would even be considered for employment if that was the case! A lot of the job ads I've looked at, especially teachers, don't pay the current minimum in their advertised price anyways! :cool:

[LPCustom69]

If the current American wage is 40,000 baht, why do the universities only pay 17,500 plus housing 8,000? Seems that since the PM has stated that all Thais are to learn English for the betterment of the country competition wise, that should be improved tremendously. I understand that there are a lot of unqualified teachers in country, some have posted comments in this forum with terrible grammar and spelling. Dr Pat Pong usually lets them know it!

[D80]

Hmmm

Since companies who employ foreigners will have to pay higher wages in order to have no trouble renewing their employee's work permit....

does this mean there will be an incentive NOT to employ foreigners??

Since there will be higher costs involved, does this mean some companies will cut down on hiring foreigners to absolute minimum (or maybe, if they must, hire foreigners from nationality groups that have lower salary treshold)??

I'm not so sure why the Thai government is doing this.... too many suspicions in my head...

From what I have seen of how hard it is to get a visa to Thailand to live permanently & how expensive it will be + how difficult it will be to get a decent job there, it looks like my husband and I will have to be apart if I am forced to go back to Thailand (and there is an iminent threat of that for me as well....).

 

[beach]

I have no problems in raising my salary by 10,000 a month. Since I employ 8 Thais I will cut their monthly wages by 1,250 Baht to make up with my increase.

We all will get richer and the Thais poorer, finally

[JemJem]

Dear 'LPCustom69" : I think this ridiculuous (and racist) practice is for companies only.....it does not apply to universities. That is what I understood from it, anyway.

Regards,

Jem

[sabaijai]

The only source we have so far for this info is a Phuket immigration officer quoted in the Phuket Gazette. I think both could be considered questionable sources. At the very least I'd like to see corroboration elsewhere. Seems like the Phuket IO may have been power-tripping a bit.

Even if these become law on paper, I can't see how they'd enforce it. The current minimums quoted in the same article are certainly NOT enforced at all.