Which Water Pump Please?

[mickba]

For a 2 bathroom 2 storey house with "rain" type showers and a hot water circuit, am I looking at Constant Pressure or Automatic ? One pump will operate cold and hot circuits.

Also, to ensure I get the best from the "rain" type showers, am I better going for the largest model (looking at e.g. Mitsubishi 405).

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

Having had two 405's in the past it will not supply consistent pressure as normally set up and do not believe we were able to get them higher than about 40psi (no meter but it was much lower than now). We changed to GRUNDFOS MQ 3-45 pump which provides 65 psi and this provides the good hotel type pressure we were looking for. They do cost about twice as much - but are much more quiet in operation.

[Beardog]

If your getting a Mitsubishi You want the EP405Q2 - That is a constant pressure made fore hot water & is automatic. I know it is King of the road in single story homes.They also this year came out with a stronger IP500Q2 that is more efficient & stronger that meets your requirements. The Grundfos is a much stronger unit & is worth the extra as Lopburi mentioned. It really does do what the specs say & is very strong.I Use the EP305Q2 for the 4 & 1/2 rai trees & garden & selected the EP205Q2 to pump the water into the house from the 2000 liter tank & am very happy with the results. We don't use hot water here yet, but are set up for it if we do & it was only 400-600 baht difference for the EP over the CP. I might have gone with the Grundfos model for the land as the 405 is stretched to it's limits even using zone systems for irrigation- but it runs 3 Rai.

Either way will most likely give you satisfactory results.

[mickba]

Thanks for that.

I'd read Lopburi's recommendation for the Grundfos elsewhere but, as yet, I can't find a stockist - preferably near Pattaya but Bangkok if not?

I've found Grundfos Thailand website but can't get it to work - maybe my slow connection.

Thanks

[lopburi3]

HomePro sells in Bangkok but not all stores have them. I have also seen at TMD water filter stands in shopping malls. They have large office/warehouse/service center in Khet Prawet District near the airport.

My reason for choice was steady flow in five bath home at a high pressure and quiet operation (as neighbors had objected to Mitsubishi 405 noise and had already insulated as much as possible).

[Beardog]

I am pretty sure I have seen a Grundfos as well at the home-pro in Pattaya. They didn't have a large selection but had one or two in stock.

The Grundfos sit had a pretty good breakdown on the specifics in pdf format.

good luck & hope it works out well for you.

[jonniebkk]

Does not one need to be careful not to have water pressure too high if you have "standard" Thai plumbing. I have read some references to about 45 psi being about right for Thai houses...if it is higher, you may cause some of the pipe joints to separate and then of course you have leakage problems. Is this true or not?

[phutoie2]

I too have been reading these posts on which type of water pump to install into your house. Our new home is about 2 months from completion and I was initially planning on mains water, as the small town I live in is installing more mains to the Soi's.

I have recently found out that our Moo is one of the last on the list and mains will not come to late this year and more likely early next year!.

Our house is single storey, 3 bedrooms, two bathrooms with showers/sinks/toilets, and kitchen, plus washing machine for outside. There is only my wife and I but we do have relatives/friends to stay from time to time.

There is plenty of water available on our land as I had a well put in for the builders, and the pump works ok.

So I am busy now researching what size of outside tank I need and a suitable automatic pump for water into the house.

There is one hardware shop in the town and it only stocks Mitsubishi's, they was keen to sell me a WP-155. He has other models WP 205/255/305 and I understand there are a CP255/CP405 in the Mitsubishi range- what is the difference here?

I have some Homepro vouchers to use so perhaps a trip to Bangkok & another make, Lopburi recommends the Grundfos range for example.

Finally will I need to install some sort of filtering system as the water is coming directly from the ground??

Thanks all, any advice appreciated.

[lopburi3]

If you will have city water soon the filtering system is probably not cost effective (if city water is clean). Most people I am sure will be happy with a smaller shallow well pump for normal home use. My reasons were for higher pressure and less noticeable dribble effect in a 10 person family home and to lower the noise level for all. As has been said these pumps are two or three times what most people pay and if you do not have good supply pipes/fixtures the higher pressure might be a problem (although any pressure might be a problem for some homes). In Conakry we had a builder use wire conduit for a new home water supply - needless to say it didn't last long under pressure - but have not seen anything that extreme in Thailand - although did have a around pole wall flexible clear water house in our home built in 1975.

[CGW]

If you add a pressure tank after pump, then regulate the Psi at the tank to ?? the pump is not so important, as long as it produces the volume, I use "no name" centrifugal pumps, set the Psi to 50 and have no problems and ample water.

Phutoie, if you are pumping from a well you don't need a big storage tank, as long as the well is producing, you just need to fill your tank up from your "main" storage - your well.

Filtering, theres all sorts on the market, a good start would be a cheap cartridge type filter (course micron) on the fill up line to the tank from the well, then evaluate from there.

[mickba]

I have about a month before I have to buy so I'll definitely track down the Grundfos and have a look.

As far as pressure is concerned, my cool circuit is the standard blue n glue and the hot is composite green heat sealed. Despite my concerns, it's all being concreted/tiled in as I post - UNTESTED! The idea of a pressure tank is interesting but another chore/expense?

My supply is currently a well, but it hasn't kept up with the builders (and campers) so I've been buying in. A bore hole may be necessary ultimately as I plan a 5000 litre whirlpool, quite a lot of plants/trees and fish (and maybe even 5 bungalows to rent) but the tease is that I'm only about 200m from the new mains pipe being installed Sattahip-Bangkok and I'm told that one day..........

I'm having 2 x 2000 litre concrete ring tanks built, one of which I intend to set up as a "slow sand filter" (see topic) with a charcoal element somewhere.

I'm also planning a DIY solar heating system, but that's yet another topic.

I think I have enough hobbies/projects to keep me busy for a while.

Thanks for the advice.

[Beardog]

Does not one need to be careful not to have water pressure too high if you have "standard" Thai plumbing. I have read some references to about 45 psi being about right for Thai houses...if it is higher, you may cause some of the pipe joints to separate and then of course you have leakage problems. Is this true or not?

If you use the higher grade PVC pipe & parts ( same as automobile SAE graded bolts) your pipes should be able to handle a lot of pressure. Most of my lines I pumped up to 75 PSI for 3 days & had no loss of pressure. The only problem I had was when I did the first phase of plumbing 7 months ago I neglected to glue a pipe & it cut loose. It was 9:30 PM & I was tired & made a mistake in the memory dept. Blue irrigation pipe is still widely used in the U.S. & holds great. The biggest problem in Thailand is either lack of using glue or the finger application of glue to the pipe compared to a sterile implement. If the pipes are not holding together here in Thailand ... you are either over 100 PSI or your plumber needs to go back to making som tam or go back to school . an occasional mistake can happen. Most of the horror stories are do to either someone being to cheap -lack of sleep or not really a decent craftsman. Even sweating copper in the U.S. I can double the amount of pressure & the joints don't blow. I have not seen any real irregularities in the casting of the PVC joints. The tires here on the cars a different story.

[phutoie2]

Phutoie, if you are pumping from a well you don't need a big storage tank, as long as the well is producing, you just need to fill your tank up from your "main" storage - your well.

Filtering, theres all sorts on the market, a good start would be a cheap cartridge type filter (course micron) on the fill up line to the tank from the well, then evaluate from there.

CGW - thankyou for your advice. I have purchased a CP 205 Mitsibushi and a suitable filter. Going to look at a tank soon, perhaps in the 750 -1200 litre capacity.

A good idea to have a back up, we will have mains eventually, but from today in this town, mains water only on 5-11am & 4-10pm. Drought saving measures!.

[Beardog]

Phutoie, if you are pumping from a well you don't need a big storage tank, as long as the well is producing, you just need to fill your tank up from your "main" storage - your well.

Filtering, theres all sorts on the market, a good start would be a cheap cartridge type filter (course micron) on the fill up line to the tank from the well, then evaluate from there.

CGW - thankyou for your advice. I have purchased a CP 205 Mitsibushi and a suitable filter. Going to look at a tank soon, perhaps in the 750 -1200 litre capacity.

A good idea to have a back up, we will have mains eventually, but from today in this town, mains water only on 5-11am & 4-10pm. Drought saving measures!.

Good choice getting a tank as in Thailand who knows when the water is coming or available. It is a cheap investment!

Try getting a sand stone tank or one of the earth colored ones - opposed to the blue ones. Have had both & the blue ones take a severe beating(non UV treated) & the brown models are UV protected & limit the amount of possible algae & are 4 times stronger. The bottoms do not crack & leave you singing the Blues!

[TimBee]

A postscript to this discussion:

I have a 4 storey townhouse with 4 bathrooms, 2 of which have spar type showers and a requirement for at least 3 bar of pressure. There's a 1600 litre storage tank on the roof, which exits into a TMD carbon filter (one of those that look like rockets). On the down side of the filter I attached a Grundfos MQ45, having just had all new PVC piping and electrical wiring throughout the house. The pump is externally house, though it's mounted insider a shelter against sun and rain. I bought the Grundfos (14K) and the TMD filter (11K) at their shop in Seacon Square, Bkk. The Grundfos has worked perfectly up until recently, delivering a consistent 60 psi. As earlier posters noted, it makes for a great shower. This was the situation for 7 months.

A week ago, the pump started turning itself on more frequently than usual. The pressure gauge mounted on the filter started falling as soon as 60 psi had been reached (which it was taking longer to reach), with the pump restarting once pressure sunk to 24 psi. My first suspicion was a leak, but there was no sign of one anywhere, either visible or running down within the two wells the house has in each corner. The contractor checked it for me and reached the same conclusion: the glue held.

Over the course of the last week, the problem got progressively worse with the pump turning on every 30 seconds: unless there was a very major leak, I thought I couldn't possibly lose pressure as quickly as this. Surely it must be the non-return valve? I called TMD: today they sent round a very unhelpful serviceman who insisted it was a leak and that it couldn't possibly be the pump, refused to listen to anyone - but couldn't find any leak himself. Nevertheless the company refused to service under warranty, there being 5 months left to that. I hope their filter never goes wrong!

As someone pointed out earlier, Grundos have a good website and there are pdf's on how to dismantle the pump and replace valves and so forth. So I'm off to Grundfos to get the part and do it myself. Anyone needing their contact details, it's:

Grundfos (Thailand) Limited

92 Chaloem Phrakiat Rama 9 Road, Dokmai,Pravej,Bangkok 10250 TEL (+66) 2725 8999 FAX (+66) 2725 8998

Grundfos Call Center : Tel (+66) 2725 8900

Please don't conclude from reading this story that Grundfos pumps don't last: I think what did mine in was a combination of me and the maid: I bought a cheap garden hose with a sprinkler head from TESCO (read rubbish) and fitted it on a garden tap very close on the circuit to the pump. It was fine as long as the tap was used to turn the water on and off, but if the tap was left on, and the sprinkler head relied on for closure, then the hose was simply not strong enough for the pump. One day, the maid watered the garden and left the tap on with sprkinler head closed: the pump stayed on (she didn't notice that) and the hose pipe gradually inflated through varying balloon sizes until it burst. Must have been spectacular: she finally noticed and turned off the tap at that point, but the damage to the valve was done, and it gradually failed. Over 25 yrs I've experienced just about every brand of pump there is here, and this is by far the best.

[Pushit]

I have looked at Mitsubishi and Hitachi water pumps, they appear to come as two different types one is rectangular box shaped and the other is cylindrical. Can someone describe the function of each as I'm unsure which type will fulfill my requirement.

[dotcom]

Does this grundfos have it's own integral pressure tank?

I have non return valves all over the place. Between the pump & tank & downstream of the tank.

Suggest 2 x 1200 liter tanks to be safe. Would let you go a few days without topping off.

[lopburi3]

There is a screw on/off tank of about 2oz on the rear of the Grundfos pump that has a tire pressure valve built into the end of it (pull the black plastic cover off to see it). If that pressure is lost the pump with cycle and appear that there is a leak. You can use a car or bike pump/gage to get it working again - or the unit can be removed and taken out for pump up. Believe it is only about 28 psi or so requirement.

[dotcom]

A bladder. Used to control surge.

You guys really need to be using header tanks. I think mine is 50 liters. Will really smooth out delivery.

[Pushit]

A bladder. Used to control surge.

You guys really need to be using header tanks. I think mine is 50 liters. Will really smooth out delivery.

Our new place isn't plumbed with consideration for a header tank, I'm stuck with a decision to purchase one of the box shaped or cylindrical shaped pumps of around 200Watts power, still can't understand the difference between the two.. Any advice?

[dotcom]

None apart from styling.

The square looking ones could be inverters.

I would suggest - if given the choice - choose the integrated pump/header tank with a stainless steel tank. Will give many years of reliable service - for not much more in price.

Fuji something brand at home pro.

[dotcom]

Micka Ba is the OP - he tells us he has a 2 storey house with 2 bathrooms rain heads & hot water. For him he needs the 405 (biggest integrated units) at a minimum & something like Grundfos that is putting out 60 liters per minute at 60 psi 4 bar.

Pushit - how much water do you need?

2 storey? 3 storey? How many persons living there?

[dotcom]

Lopburi. For those who don't need quite as much volume & pressure I can recommend my latest pump. It replaced a 400 watt Mitsubishi. Much quieter & has a smart controller.

About 6000 baht with controller. The pressure is a wee bit less 45 psi versus the previous 50 psi but I really like this one. Made in Taiwan I think. Masterflow.

Needs header tank. I think I gave 10,000 for mine - 50 liter.

[Pushit]

Micka Ba is the OP - he tells us he has a 2 storey house with 2 bathrooms rain heads & hot water. For him he needs the 405 (biggest integrated units) at a minimum & something like Grundfos that is putting out 60 liters per minute at 60 psi 4 bar.

Pushit - how much water do you need?

2 storey? 3 storey? How many persons living there?

Dotcom: We have 3 floor townhouse (same as a shophouse) 3 people residing, I plan on a cylindrical Mitsu or Hitachi 250Watt pump. Grundfoss looks nice but are expensive.

Cheers

[dotcom]

No way is a 250 watt pump enough.

The grundfos would be the ideal solution.

We Americans need 3 things. Coke Ice & pounding hot water showers. Regardless the cost.

You could probably get by with a pump like mine. The Masterflow. With header tank about 16,000 not including pipes & labor.

[TimBee]

The folks at Grundfos call centre were real nice, sent around a technician the next day, fixed everything without charge and once we showed him the invoice from the supplier, said he'd continue to do so for 24 months and to forget the supplier, who he said was really only interested in servicing their own filters. This was then confirmed when the filter technician turned up: he proceded to "service the pump" by flushing out the filter and asking for Baht 500 for his trouble. On his bike.

[technocracy]

Does this grundfos have it's own integral pressure tank?

I have non return valves all over the place. Between the pump & tank & downstream of the tank.

Suggest 2 x 1200 liter tanks to be safe. Would let you go a few days without topping off.

Well you can get Grundfos models with an Integral pressure tank however the MQ3-45 doesn't however it does have a built in non return valve.

[dotcom]

Non return valve & stainless steel union. Downstream of header tank.

[dotcom]

Does not one need to be careful not to have water pressure too high if you have "standard" Thai plumbing. I have read some references to about 45 psi being about right for Thai houses...if it is higher, you may cause some of the pipe joints to separate and then of course you have leakage problems. Is this true or not?

Very true. About 50 PSI is max safe pressure. I used to push my old Mitsubishi 405 to 56 psi.

Gauge on latest Masterflow pump.

[fremmel]

In a similar vein with some other posters I'm getting ready to set up the water supply for my new house so I've got a couple of questions for you experienced pump people. This will be for two people in a single story house plumbed with 3/4" class 13.5 (schedule 40) PVC pipe. I'd like a system that will give me a good high pressure shower, say around 50 psi, with enough volume that the shower won't fluctuate much if someone flushes the toilet or starts the washer. Looking at the performance curves for the Hitachi and Mitsubishi pumps they start out at high pressure but fall off pretty rapidly with volume unless it's one of their expensive inverter models. I know Lopburi has been pleased with his Grundfos MQ3-45 but that's over kill for me and I'd like a little more pressure than the MQ3-35 gives. The Grundfos CH2-50PT says that it will deliver 26 l/min at 51 psi and only drops off to 43 psi at 37 l/min so I've been thinking I'd go with that. It's around 10,500 baht. Are there better options for less money?

The second question is about a filter. I've been really lucky with my well. It's an artesian well that even in the dry season delivers better than 50 l/min of good water. I've sent a sample to BKK for testing and it came back as suitable for drinking, no iron, manganese, or copper, and fairly low calcium carbonate. So, I'm just planning to just use one of those rocket type carbon filters after the pump to improve the taste. Is that going to cost me much of a pressure drop?