You Think Crime Is Bad In Patters

[jonniebkk]

Many people seem to always make comments to the effect that crime in Patters-Bangkok-Phuket-Wherever is out of control. Well, I don't know where all these people hail from, but for those from major cities in the USA, thailand still seems like a fun day at the park. Here are the crime stories from my home town paper, the San Francisco Chronicle, for today:

Richmond, California (across the Bay from San Francisco)

5 shot in church drive-by shooting. One man was killed outside the Church of the Living God, as members were setting up for a homeless outreach event,

Oakland, California

1 man shot and killed. Upon arrival, police officers found one unidentified male dead at the scene.

San Francisco

2 men killed after argument over a pizza. Jason De La Cruz, 31, and his friend, Derek Butch, were killed in a double shooting early Saturday morning outside a pizza joint on Irving Street.

and the day before...another double homicide in San Francisco

It was the second double-shooting in 24 hours. The first occurred Saturday in the Excelsior district. Two men were fatally shot in the head while sitting in a parked car...

And this is not some one-off bad crime day...it's more or less the norm. A couple months ago, a pizza delivery man was robbed, shot and killed for about US$ 5 that he had on his person, while he was delivering a pizza!

Maybe I'll just continue to say that Pattaya and Thailand in general are still plenty safe for me

Edited March 31, 2008 by jonniebkk

[chuckd]

Good post. More people need to put things in their proper perspective.

[popshirt]

A friend who sold me his interest in a Jomtien condominium (then unfinished) decided that South America was the place to be, not Thailand.

He just fled from Venezuela which he reports has such a level of random violence that he was afraid to leave his lodgings there. He enjoyed the beaches, is fluent in Spanish, is of Mexican descent and fits in well, but said it is no place to live peacefully. He has also tried Brazil and several other countries. Now he longs to be back in Thailand! In Pattaya/Jomtien! I may rent him the condo he sold me!

[Nignoy]

Many people seem to always make comments to the effect that crime in Patters-Bangkok-Phuket-Wherever is out of control. Well, I don't know where all these people hail from, but for those from major cities in the USA, thailand still seems like a fun day at the park. Here are the crime stories from my home town paper, the San Francisco Chronicle, for today:

Richmond, California (across the Bay from San Francisco)

5 shot in church drive-by shooting. One man was killed outside the Church of the Living God, as members were setting up for a homeless outreach event,

Oakland, California

1 man shot and killed. Upon arrival, police officers found one unidentified male dead at the scene.

San Francisco

2 men killed after argument over a pizza. Jason De La Cruz, 31, and his friend, Derek Butch, were killed in a double shooting early Saturday morning outside a pizza joint on Irving Street.

and the day before...another double homicide in San Francisco

It was the second double-shooting in 24 hours. The first occurred Saturday in the Excelsior district. Two men were fatally shot in the head while sitting in a parked car...

And this is not some one-off bad crime day...it's more or less the norm. A couple months ago, a pizza delivery man was robbed, shot and killed for about US$ 5 that he had on his person, while he was delivering a pizza!

Maybe I'll just continue to say that Pattaya and Thailand in general are still plenty safe for me

Great post Mate, its not quite as bad here in sunny Queensland ,but shootings , stabbings Rape, and in our sleepy village, since xmas 3children raped and 1 murdered 2 running Gunbattles between police and drugdealers, I.m not having a go at AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!!!its just Violence and murder is a way of life in all countries these days ot just Thailand Nignoy

[popshirt]

Sorry, forgot........I have my own story too. I was thinking of settling in Panama for a while and after spending time there (the government is VERY friendly toward farang) I decided against it because of the rampant crime. I hear the same is happening in "the land of once-glowing reports" Costa Rica.

[innovator]

The big difference between these stories coming from San Francisco and here in Thailand is that the murders actually happen in Thailand, but in San Francisco, they just make this stuff up to sell newspapers and boost TV ratings.

Also, in the states, the murders seem to be only one shot or two per victim, but here in LOS, they seem to be more horrendous sounding...

like 45 stab wounds and then tossed out of the building onto a pole. Or, raped by 25 men and then shot 2 times in the head and stabbed 55 times to make sure the victim is dead. (They seem to be more violent murders here and therefore, appear to be worse).

In the end, murder is murder and a terrible waste of life. But, in Thai, they all seem to think that they will come back again and again, so they don't seem to be concerned about the crime rates. In the states, we feel that we only get to go around one time and that we won't come back as a cat, shoe, rock, tree, dog, toothbrush, or whatever.

Just my 2 baht's worth.

Edited March 31, 2008 by innovator

[Theyreallrubbish]

A friend who sold me his interest in a Jomtien condominium (then unfinished) decided that South America was the place to be, not Thailand.

He just fled from Venezuela which he reports has such a level of random violence that he was afraid to leave his lodgings there. He enjoyed the beaches, is fluent in Spanish, is of Mexican descent and fits in well, but said it is no place to live peacefully. He has also tried Brazil and several other countries. Now he longs to be back in Thailand! In Pattaya/Jomtien! I may rent him the condo he sold me!

I knew a guy who used to spend half the year in Brazil and half in Thailand. I started seeing him around more often and he said he wasn't going to Brazil anymore due to the level of crime. And he was wealthy and certainly wasn't hanging around in the barrios.

The crime situation in the US is a little different as its mostly confined to the ghettoes as the middle class areas are heavily policed. Your chances of suffering from random violence in the US are fairly slim provided you stay out of high crime areas. (Identifiable sadly by a lack of white faces mostly)

[Jingthing]

Well, I can speak for America. It is a big country. There are parts that aren't that much safer than Iraq (the same areas ironically where they recruit most of the soldiers for Iraq). Then there are parts that are heaven on earth. The difference is usually class and money. I have lived in US cities most of my life, some dangerous ones, some safer ones, and Jomtien/Pattaya is a cakewalk in comparison.

Edited March 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[Theyreallrubbish]

Well, I can speak for America. It is a big country. There are parts that aren't that much safer than Iraq. Then there are parts that are heaven on earth. The difference is usually class and money. I have lived in US cities all my life, some dangerous ones, some safer ones, and Jomtien/Pattaya is a cakewalk in comparison.

I think the difference that makes Thai violence scary is the randomness of it. That it happens when you think you're safe. On a tourist beach in the middle of the day. In a town centre at night by a policeman. By your GFs Thai boyfriend. By a meth addict in the middle of a tourist area. By a random stranger who's suddenly decided you've cost him "face"

As I said, in the US its generally more predictable where its unsafe so you feel a sense of control that you can alter your own behaviour to affect your safety. Its the uncertainty and the sense that you have no control that makes it more scary in Thailand

[Jingthing]

Thats true, in some areas of the US if you just go in there and you don't belong there, you pretty much know you are going to get robbed (if lucky) or killed.

I do think the perception of the dangers here is influenced by where you are coming from. If you come from a very sterile secure place, you might find it dangerous here. If you come from danger, it seems normal, or even safer than where you came from.

Edited March 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[jonniebkk]

in San Francisco, they just make this stuff up to sell newspapers and boost TV ratings. I am sure the family and friends of the 6 people who were not actually killed but whose death's were only dreamed-up by the writers and editors of the Chronicle will be happy to hear that. Maybe you should be the one to call them and inform them of this good news and that they should expect their loved ones to walk in through the front door at any minute.

...the murders seem to be only one shot or two per victim, but here in LOS, they seem to be more horrendous sounding...

like 45 stab wounds and then tossed out of the building onto a pole. Dead is dead in my book Likely reason for more violence is is that many are crimes of passion (such crimes in the States also show excessive brutality).

...in the states, we feel that we only get to go around one time and that we won't come back as a cat, shoe, rock, tree, dog, toothbrush, or whatever. No, most just think they will rise from the dead in perfect new bodies and live forever in eternal bliss in the presence of "God." Delusions and and mental illness are the same the world over.

Edited March 31, 2008 by jonniebkk

[BigSnake]

Good point and true, but the population of Bkk, Pattaya, Phuket, or Chaing Mai is pale in constrast to San Fran, Oakland, Richmond

[Jingthing]

Good point and true, but the population of Bkk, Pattaya, Phuket, or Chaing Mai is pale in constrast to San Fran, Oakland, Richmond

Richmond is one of the scariest cities on earth. No comparison to Pattaya!

Edited March 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[Theyreallrubbish]

Good point and true, but the population of Bkk, Pattaya, Phuket, or Chaing Mai is pale in constrast to San Fran, Oakland, Richmond

Richmond is one of the scariest cities on earth. No comparison to Pattaya!

I'm British and I was working in LA, living in Newport Beach and working in Beverly Hills. One night going home my car broke down and I had to pull off the freeway in Inglewood in Los Angeles at about 11 o clock at night. I called a local friend to pick me up and he asked where I was. When I told him he said to get into a hotel straight away and don't come out of the room! He'd come and get me in the morning.

I actually met some of the denizens and although they were obviously high on something pretty strong they were quite friendly.

I was definitely the only blue eyed person in that neighborhood.

[misterman21]

As a Brit i have always considered many places in the US as being no go areas due to high crime - New Orleans, Miami, New York (of old) to name just a few places. America is known for street gangs and freely available supply of guns. Stating some crime statistics from the US should be of no surprize to most people!

The worrying thing about crime in Pattaya eg. is the crime against foreigners

Edited March 31, 2008 by misterman21

[Beardog]

I lived in the Bay area for a while & you could not have picked a worse example short of Harlem or Watts.

true a black man is scared to drive or walk through Richmond. I had to work installing cable TV & was forced to gaff out & land on a mans shin & rip him to shreds to get him to leave.(in an ambulance & then off to the pokey for other related charges) Oakland was on the route as well & has some fairly rough cities.

Sanfrancisco....You would be nuts to get some recycled auto parts in hunters point. Most of the shops I used for 15 years have moved to Sebastapool ,Cotati, Redwood city. To saner locations.

I am sure this article possibly is not taking in the account that the Bay area has lots of people living there & in The U.S. they report crimes .....Not as in LOS Only a fool with a deathwish goes into Richmond Or Hunters point- now the northern California drive by wrong side of the tracks.

Sometimes in Sanfrancisco I would have to make transactions at the bank in the sunset district & carry cash up to $60,000 & checks & never once got hassled & I did have a permit to carry my 357 Thank God I never needed it . I think California is a little safer than here over all. Few times does someone get robbed & kicked out of a taxi into the ditch & for sure not as many deaths over a mia noi or pua noi!

Edited March 31, 2008 by Beardog

[shocker]

As a Brit i have always considered many places in the US as being no go areas due to high crime - New Orleans, Miami, New York (of old) to name just a few places. America is known for street gangs and freely available supply of guns. Stating some crime statistics from the US should be of no surprize to most people!

The worrying thing about crime in Pattaya eg. is the crime against foreigners

Its not so great in britain these days,I wouldnt walk the streets I grew up on in finsbury park/highbury in london and an old mate is now Public Health Officer for Peckham in london and says the gun crime is worse than when he visited me in the lower east side of NY back in the 80s,back in the bad old days of 7 shootings a day on my block alone.Its a matter of perspective.....many farang go to thailand for a quiet retirement and are not getting it,but they wouldnt be anywhere else!Im in cornwall,UK right now and we got horrible murders,robberys and sex crimes all over this sleepy little corner.

I agree though that the crime against foreigners is what troubles people/highlights the problem.From what I know the worse thais regard westerners as walking ATMs.Though this could be said of any deprived area/country,not just thailand

[shocker]

I lived in the Bay area for a while & you could not have picked a worse example short of Harlem or Watts.

true a black man is scared to drive or walk through Richmond. I had to work installing cable TV & was forced to gaff out & land on a mans shin & rip him to shreds to get him to leave.(in an ambulance & then off to the pokey for other related charges) Oakland was on the route as well & has some fairly rough cities.

Sanfrancisco....You would be nuts to get some recycled auto parts in hunters point. Most of the shops I used for 15 years have moved to Sebastapool ,Cotati, Redwood city. To saner locations.

I am sure this article possibly is not taking in the account that the Bay area has lots of people living there & in The U.S. they report crimes .....Not as in LOS Only a fool with a deathwish goes into Richmond Or Hunters point- now the northern California drive by wrong side of the tracks.

Sometimes in Sanfrancisco I would have to make transactions at the bank in the sunset district & carry cash up to $60,000 & checks & never once got hassled & I did have a permit to carry my 357 Thank God I never needed it . I think California is a little safer than here over all. Few times does someone get robbed & kicked out of a taxi into the ditch & for sure not as many deaths over a mia noi or pua noi!

Hunters point is WORSE than it was?Jaysus it must be like the seventh circle of dantes inferno now

[naka]

This reminds me of Monty Python's ... You think you were poor.

Naka.

[britmaveric]

Patters doesnt even come into the conversation when you speak of unsafe places.

[edwardandtubs]

Posters here are not really comparing like with like. They're comparing the most crime-infested, run-down parts of the UK and USA and saying because crime is worse there then crime is not an issue in Pattaya. Finsbury Park, for example, is a notorious slum area full of grotty bedsits, druggies and curb crawlers. Most Londoners wouldn't go near it with a smelly stick. I'm sure there are slum areas of Thailand that are even worse. Pattaya, on the other hand, is an international beach resort so the real question is whether it's safer than other international beach resorts like Monaco, Crete or Blackpool (ahem). the statistics seem to show the answer is no.

[jonniebkk]

Posters here are not really comparing like with like. They're comparing the most crime-infested, run-down parts of the UK and USA and saying because crime is worse there then crime is not an issue in Pattaya.

My op was not meant to be a stastistical comparison of crime rates in Pattaya/Thailand vs. those in the West. Only that plenty of crime exists in many places and that "the sky is falling" attitute towards crime in Thailand that is sometimes expressed by expatriates is not really warranted, IMO.

As to the specific killings listed in my op, 2 out of the 6 (1/3) could be considered to have taken place in areas considered dangerous - the ones in Richmond and Oakland. However, the other 4 killings (or 2/3rds), took place in San Francisco; and in neighborhoods considered safe and middle class - the Sunset and Excelsior districts.

[innovator]

I was in China and I never saw a Chinese man with his wife stabbing a farang with one leg to death in a condo unit for 3000 baht and a mobile phone!!

I never saw a Chinese man 'rent' out his wife for money either.

Most of these murders in Thailand seem to be about money, not about passion. After all, how can one be murdered out of a broken heart scenario when the one with the broken heart is already married to a Thai man?

[Beardog]

I lived in the Bay area for a while & you could not have picked a worse example short of Harlem or Watts.

true a black man is scared to drive or walk through Richmond. I had to work installing cable TV & was forced to gaff out & land on a mans shin & rip him to shreds to get him to leave.(in an ambulance & then off to the pokey for other related charges) Oakland was on the route as well & has some fairly rough cities.

Sanfrancisco....You would be nuts to get some recycled auto parts in hunters point. Most of the shops I used for 15 years have moved to Sebastapool ,Cotati, Redwood city. To saner locations.

I am sure this article possibly is not taking in the account that the Bay area has lots of people living there & in The U.S. they report crimes .....Not as in LOS Only a fool with a deathwish goes into Richmond Or Hunters point- now the northern California drive by wrong side of the tracks.

Sometimes in Sanfrancisco I would have to make transactions at the bank in the sunset district & carry cash up to $60,000 & checks & never once got hassled & I did have a permit to carry my 357 Thank God I never needed it . I think California is a little safer than here over all. Few times does someone get robbed & kicked out of a taxi into the ditch & for sure not as many deaths over a mia noi or pua noi!

Hunters point is WORSE than it was?Jaysus it must be like the seventh circle of dantes inferno now

I went to SF last June to look for a Boss 302 ford rat motor & 3 of my black friends in San Francisco told me they wouldn't be caught dead there. 1/2 of all the wrecking yards are closed there now. No shit it is that bad- I think Watts or Compton are safer now. been to all 3 & would rather roam around Compton than hunters point now( Of course if I had to- Now I use my Brain & stay out of these areas) But seriously Thailand I think per kappa has way more Bobbit stories & Jealous cop & other stories of a farang jumping out of a 12th story condo, shootings than the west. the crimes are just not reported!

[siampaulibuyasia]

As a Brit i have always considered many places in the US as being no go areas due to high crime - New Orleans, Miami, New York (of old) to name just a few places. America is known for street gangs and freely available supply of guns. Stating some crime statistics from the US should be of no surprize to most people!

The worrying thing about crime in Pattaya eg. is the crime against foreigners

Its not so great in britain these days,I wouldnt walk the streets I grew up on in finsbury park/highbury in london and an old mate is now Public Health Officer for Peckham in london and says the gun crime is worse than when he visited me in the lower east side of NY back in the 80s,back in the bad old days of 7 shootings a day on my block alone.Its a matter of perspective.....many farang go to thailand for a quiet retirement and are not getting it,but they wouldnt be anywhere else!Im in cornwall,UK right now and we got horrible murders,robberys and sex crimes all over this sleepy little corner.

I agree though that the crime against foreigners is what troubles people/highlights the problem.From what I know the worse thais regard westerners as walking ATMs.Though this could be said of any deprived area/country,not just thailand

i am sorry 4 u havin to live near highbury the pong must b staggering, far worse than the crime

[thaimate]

in 18 years i have travelled to ,had buisness in bangkok and for the last 3 years lived in pattaya with my wife and son ,i have never ever experianced violence, never ever felt threatened and dont know anyone who has been robbed ,beaten or jumped from a building.

perhaps my friends and i go to the wrong places?

[Beardog]

in 18 years i have travelled to ,had buisness in bangkok and for the last 3 years lived in pattaya with my wife and son ,i have never ever experianced violence, never ever felt threatened and dont know anyone who has been robbed ,beaten or jumped from a building.

perhaps my friends and i go to the wrong places?

I think you usually don't know about a jumper.....it is supposed to be the surprise part of the deal.There are a lot of men getting the raw end of the stick so to speak & rarely do you ever hear about them jumping to their death- cause their sooo depressed.

Their assets wouldn't usually go to the wife pending an in depth investigation. In Thailand its just another day & after a boo hoo the wife gets all the assets unless otherwise stipulated. Maybe its just me & a few others, but it doesn't seem like they make that big of deal that some poor farang decided to jump(in a most painful way to his death) Why not step in front of a bus on sukamvit) way to convenient! I gotta say to I really have not been a victim here either, but neither in the U.S. (not counting mishaps in either countries.or in any of the other countries I have been. We must be doing something right.

[zorro1]

Around 10 years ago I split with my second wife whom I married in the USA. I threw in my white collar job and Travelled And ended up Living on Malcolm X Boulevard , Harlem for 2 months working as a furniture removalist and finished each day in The Bronx where the warehouse was. I never ever got even close to any trouble and Im as white as talcum powder, However I did get some very surprised looks, mostly from the cops. I have lived in Pattya and have now bought a condo central suk Bkk and the most trouble I ever got was from a couple of overly excited lady boys. A lot of people highly increase their odds of getting bashed or killed by looking for trouble in the first place. I think we have all seen that drunken antagonising dikchead and have gone " oh boy he will end up in serious siht"