Why Is Thailand A Third World Country?

[Maigo6]

5. But to cut his short....as I said....you could write a long book about why many Thais are poor.

While you're at it, can you also write a book about Why so many Farangs, with all the opportunities they have had in life are on the bones of their azz too.

[Maigo6]

But no worries, Brits are moving in from UK, so hopefully things in Thailand will get better,

Jeez, you really want Thailand to be like UK ?

You're kidding right ?

[kmart]

But no worries, Brits are moving in from UK, so hopefully things in Thailand will get better,

Jeez, you really want Thailand to be like UK ?

You're kidding right ?

[Furbie]

Thailand is officially classed as a Developing Nation which is a step up from Third World status, and are MOST thais poor?. What is poor in your eyes may not be so in the eyes of a Thai person.

Most Western countries got better conditions and living standards for the working classes through unionism, maybe in future that will happen here.

It will only take somebody with enough fire in their belly to organise unions and grower co-operatives and force business to negotiate.

The small farmer taking his 10 bags of rice to sell has no bargaining power,but a grower co-op with 1000 or even 10,000 tonnes has a very strong hand to play with.

As I recall, the term third world country is no longer relevant as it refers to the cold war era when developing countries that were not aligned with the US or the Soviet Union were classified as Third World.

I believe Thailand is now classified as a mid-level developing country. Lao PDR and Cambodia would be classified as Least Developed or similar.

[Furbie]

Thais are not poor; on the contrary, they are one of the richest folks around. Let me explain. A rich person can:

1) Not think about tomorrow.

2) Not think about the day after tomorrow, let alone one week or a year.

3) Spend as much time on the cell phone, eating and watching soap operas per day, as doing actual work.

4) Go to work (if one has) and really do little or nothing.

5) Change jobs or professions like they desire, be it weekly, monthly or yearly.

6) Go to school, learn nothing but yet get a "decent" job.

7) Sit around and do nothing.

8) Have multiple girlfriends/boyfriends at one time.

9) Drink and gamble like there is no tomorrow.

10) In case of being a male, spending upwards of 20% of your waking time drunk.

11) Being free of any responsibility.

12) Being unaccountable for most things.

13) When asked about something they either don't know, don't want to do or can't do; simply say "I have headache, I go home".

14) Take 2-3 days of at work because mama split her finger nail and needs assistance changing channels with the remote control for the TV.

As one of the managing members of a company in Thailand.... I have got to say you hit a lot of those points square on. We had one girl quit because she saw a "ghost" at the office. I guess the ghost was shy around Americans or something?

While you can argue with the tone of the first poster, you cannot argue with the fact that anyone managing Thai staff has heard some really interesting excuses. I too had a staff person (with a MBA!) quit because of ghosts.

The reality is; Thailand is not a land of consequences – for the most part – and the staff know this.

For example, staff are given 30 sick days by law, and many will use them all. It is very difficult to fire someone without paying severance, even if they are incompetent. The staff will sue to get it, even in cases where they embezzled money (they may not win, but will sue). Many staff when faced with a difficult challenge will simply go home. I remember the first job interview I had with a Western MD in Thailand, the guy had been here several years and we were discussing Thai staff efficiency. One of his best anecdotes was his story that he knows he lost a big client when his project manager goes home with a headache.

Some of the other comments have more to do with the "class" of the individuals involved, and we have our fair share of those in the West as well – they just aren't allowed to camp out around the business district or near expensive residential areas as they are in Thailand.

[dominique355]

Why is Thailand a Third World Country or a Developing country? Those of us who have witnessed how the present government has been formed and who is part of it, should be able to see why.

Murderers, criminals, convicted of corruption, cronies and totally unqualified people with only one objective: fill their own pocket and live their lust and hunger for power.

And what is the public doing about it? Nothing. So it will go on and on forever.

What are the reasons? I believe some can be found in:

- lack or bad education in schools

- people are "educated" to respect and never question teachers, the elder ones, the ones in charge, the ones with power. So absolutely no accountability.

- corruption from the lowest to the highest level. And nobody seems to consider corruption as a bad thing. "It's normal, and what can I do about it?" is the usual shrug-off.

- the social / political system which does not allow to ask some fundamental questions, not even in this forum. Too many "taboos".

Of course, there are certainly many Thai people, who do not fit into this, who have good education, open and critical mind, are honest, and are even willing to discuss taboo subjects, but how many?

Fortunately I knew a few and that gives me hope. And, interesting enough, they are mostly well beyond the age of 50.

[siamamerican]

There are a thousand things wrong with Thailand. There are a thousand things that, if done differently, would make life much better.

But it's not up to us to impose our value system on the development of another sovereign territory. What people fail to realise is that most of these so-called developing countries are cramming 200-250 years of development into 20-25 years; it's obvious there will be mistakes, ructions, injustices occuring. Do you think similar things didnt happen in the UK's development? Go look at your history books and look at issues like corruption, wealth disparities, injustices that prevailed over decades and decades before - seemingly - smoothing themselves out in the 20th century.

Russia and China took a quicker, more brutal route to developing, with mixed results. Singapore and, to a lesser extent, Malaysia took another more successful route.

Thailand is doing it its own way. And as I sit in my office looking at the streets full of cars, luxury office buildings, shops full of things to buy, and well-fed people going about their business, I dont think they are doing as bad a job as we like to think.

One of my favorite posters. Rationality always prevails over insanity. Well, at least most of the time. I've been considering investing in Malaysia - why do you think Malaysia has chosen the right route?

I'm well traveled and Thailand is far ahead of most third world countries I've spent time in, from an ex pats perspective. Not sure if that applies to locals though. It's is extremely easy to set-up a comfortable life in Thailand. Ex pats rarely confront crime and violence. Many posters can cut and past exceptions, but the crime and corruption pales in compared to Mexico, Central America, and S. America. BK and NY are comparable cities in size - which one is safer for ex pats?

20% of the people in this world drive its progress and 80%complain how it is so unfair. The world is a much better place than it was 100 years ago, because the 20% keep dragging the complainers forward.

[bendix]

Thailand is doing it its own way. And as I sit in my office looking at the streets full of cars, luxury office buildings, shops full of things to buy, and well-fed people going about their business, I dont think they are doing as bad a job as we like to think.

You see how a small percentage, the richest element of Thai society lives in the capital and base your opinions on that.

Why not take a walk through the Klong Toei Slums?

Why not go upcountry to the Isaarn region and see the daily struggle of the rural poor? A world away from the BMW and Mercedes owners you see cruising along Chit Lom to their air-conditioned shopping malls for the opulent daily spend.

The reality for most of the country is far different than the view from your office window in central Bangkok.

Awwww . that's nice. I'm no longer being ignored by the emperor.

I'm not judging Thailand by the richest 20%. Far from it. My point was purely illustrative in that the picture I painted (admittedly a snapshot of society) is not the sort of thing one sees in so-called third world countries.

I have been through the Klong Toei slums. I have been upcountry. I have been down to the Malaysia border. Yes, there are plenty of 'poor' people struggling with day to day existence, but I have seen very few examples of people starving to death, walking around in rags or looking particularly malnourished which is my definition of poor - as in genuinely third world countries like Malawi, the Sudan and similar places. There are also relatively poor people struggling for survival in Alabama, South Shields and the poorer suburbs of Paris.

There are more of these relatively poor people in Thailand, yes. But even in the poorest of poor rural Isaan villages people seem to have enough food in their bellies; they are wearing relatively decent clothing, and there seems to be very few genuinely destitute people. There are people who are surviving month to month on low incomes, but isnt that the same everywhere around the world?

In a rapidly developing country - and I think Thailand is that - there will always be a widening gap between the haves and have nots. It is to be expected. It is part of the process and it has happened - with varying degrees of intensity - in every country that goes through a period of economic development.

As I mentioned before, there are many many challenges. I agree that the education system leaves a lot to be desired and as the country continues to mature it's likely standards will increase. Any student of history knows that the schools in early industrial England were based on an educational diet of religion, hypocrisy and cant and taught in an environment where critical learning was suppressed. Does that sound familiar?

Thailand has a long way to go. There are pockets of its development which are plainly silly and mistaken. Thailand's innate nationalism and inward-looking mentality has hindered its development compared to a more open-minded society like Singapore. But notwithstanding that it has made great progress and will continue to do so, albeit with backward steps every now and again.

[bendix]

Thailand is doing it its own way. And as I sit in my office looking at the streets full of cars, luxury office buildings, shops full of things to buy, and well-fed people going about their business, I dont think they are doing as bad a job as we like to think.

Furthermore, I judge the job a society is doing on its education systems, its moral values and its work ethic amongst many other things.

At these things, I can see Thai society clearly failing at nearly every level.

A society cannot be judged on its material wealth alone although those that do fit the mindset of the average Thai.

You come from the UK don't you? So do I.

So tell me this. How do you feel the UK has done in this regard? Or the US, if you're American?

Declining education standards. Nations that so embrace lack of learning and intelligence that the most popular game shows are called 'Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader", and where teachers are leaving the profession in their droves for fear of being assaulted or killed in the classroom.

Nations so imbued with mediocrity that the latest emploits of Britney Spears or Amy Winehouse knock election or international news off the front pages, even from the broadsheets which - to pander to people's increasing laziness and lack of engagement - have become tabloids too.

Moral values? Work ethics? Judging the success of a society by its material wealth . . . . Im sorry ET, as I read your post I'm struggling to see the difference between the UK, the US and Thailand.

Edited April 3, 2008 by bendix

[PadThaiGuy]

Thailand is doing it its own way. And as I sit in my office looking at the streets full of cars, luxury office buildings, shops full of things to buy, and well-fed people going about their business, I dont think they are doing as bad a job as we like to think.

You see how a small percentage, the richest element of Thai society lives in the capital and base your opinions on that.

Why not take a walk through the Klong Toei Slums?

Why not go upcountry to the Isaarn region and see the daily struggle of the rural poor? A world away from the BMW and Mercedes owners you see cruising along Chit Lom to their air-conditioned shopping malls for the opulent daily spend.

The reality for most of the country is far different than the view from your office window in central Bangkok.

Awwww . that's nice. I'm no longer being ignored by the emperor.

I'm not judging Thailand by the richest 20%. Far from it. My point was purely illustrative in that the picture I painted (admittedly a snapshot of society) is not the sort of thing one sees in so-called third world countries.

I have been through the Klong Toei slums. I have been upcountry. I have been down to the Malaysia border. Yes, there are plenty of 'poor' people struggling with day to day existence, but I have seen very few examples of people starving to death, walking around in rags or looking particularly malnourished which is my definition of poor - as in genuinely third world countries like Malawi, the Sudan and similar places. There are also relatively poor people struggling for survival in Alabama, South Shields and the poorer suburbs of Paris.

There are more of these relatively poor people in Thailand, yes. But even in the poorest of poor rural Isaan villages people seem to have enough food in their bellies; they are wearing relatively decent clothing, and there seems to be very few genuinely destitute people. There are people who are surviving month to month on low incomes, but isnt that the same everywhere around the world?

In a rapidly developing country - and I think Thailand is that - there will always be a widening gap between the haves and have nots. It is to be expected. It is part of the process and it has happened - with varying degrees of intensity - in every country that goes through a period of economic development.

As I mentioned before, there are many many challenges. I agree that the education system leaves a lot to be desired and as the country continues to mature it's likely standards will increase. Any student of history knows that the schools in early industrial England were based on an educational diet of religion, hypocrisy and cant and taught in an environment where critical learning was suppressed. Does that sound familiar?

Thailand has a long way to go. There are pockets of its development which are plainly silly and mistaken. Thailand's innate nationalism and inward-looking mentality has hindered its development compared to a more open-minded society like Singapore. But notwithstanding that it has made great progress and will continue to do so, albeit with backward steps every now and again.

How is it, some recent arrival, that lives in a Sukhumvit Condo, spends his time in an air con office on some corporate package become such an expert on Thailand I wonder.

[bendix]

How is it, some recent arrival, that lives in a Sukhumvit Condo, spends his time in an air con office on some corporate package become such an expert on Thailand I wonder.

Because I'm intelligent, open-minded and not transferring bitterness about my failings in life to my new home.

I'm not an expert. These are opinions based on observations.

It's called a debate.

Would you like to contribute something to it, except for your usual rages against the injustices of life here?

[clausewitz]

Hey people.If you still think Thailand is a 3rd world country,take an extended visit to Laos!

.

Or how many vist India.

Take the complaints about the new aiport here in Bangkok. They think this is an example of a third world country airport. Try the one at Calcutta.

For expats who have been in Asia since the early eighties saying that Thailand is 3rd world is a sign that the speaker is either 18 years old and here on his first trip away from mommy- or 60 plus and here on his first trip away from mummy.

Try not to be fools , it makes the rest of us look away in embarrassment.

Edited April 3, 2008 by clausewitz

[HS Mauberley]

Well if you're comparing Thailand to Britain or America and finding it wanting - which is really what most of this nonsense is about - a significant factor is that it didn't have the profits of the slave trade to invest in its nascent capitalism and nor did it - in the case of the UK - nor does it - in the case of the US - have a vast empire to subject, colonise and from which it could or can extort tremendous amounts of wealth. Sadly for Thailand, it can't use grossly unfair trading arrangements to skim off the profits of other nations (did you know that the US raises as much in import tariffs from Cambodia as it does from France?) so it can't then use this wealth to subsidise exports and destroy competitive industry in far flung lands and it doesn't have a huge military to arrange for the beneficial transfers of resources and the suppression of communities foolish enough to demand that they keep what is theirs. Anyone who thinks the wealth of the West is built on the sweat of honest labour and "good-ol' US know-how" needs to pick up a history book or two, or maybe just tune into a TV channel other than Fox. It seems perverse that so many people lament the fact that Thailand isn't yet a thorough-going Anglo-Saxon Capitalist shit-hole, a little mini-me for America or Britain patronisingly to pat on the head. This is a cause for celebration, not complaint.

Edited April 3, 2008 by HS Mauberley

[uptou]

Well if you're comparing Thailand to Britain or America and finding it wanting - which is really what most of this nonsense is about - a significant factor is that it didn't have the profits of the slave trade to invest in its nascent capitalism and nor did it - in the case of the UK - nor does it - in the case of the US - have a vast empire to subject, colonise and from which it could or can extort tremendous amounts of wealth. Sadly for Thailand, it can't use grossly unfair trading arrangements to skim off the profits of other nations (did you know that the US raises as much in import tariffs from Cambodia as it does from France?) so it can't then use this wealth to subsidise exports and destroy competitive industry in far flung lands and it doesn't have a huge military to arrange for the beneficial transfers of resources and the suppression of communities foolish enough to demand that they keep what is theirs. Anyone who thinks the wealth of the West is built on the sweat of honest labour and "good-ol' US know-how" needs to pick up a history book or two, or maybe just tune into a TV channel other than Fox. It seems perverse that so many people lament the fact that Thailand isn't yet a thorough-going Anglo-Saxon Capitalist shit-hole, a little mini-me for America or Britain patronisingly to pat on the head. This is a cause for celebration, not complaint.

Great post.

I would say that there are quite a few farang who NEED to feel that this is a 3rd world country,& want to believe that the little brown flat nosed natives are in fact inferior.

[bendix]

What gets me is that people complain about it being third world and 'not like it is at home', yet fail to grasp that it is because it is a developing country that they are able to live in relative comfort on piss-poor pensions.

And, let's face it, it's always the same bunch of malcontents trotting out their condescending half-arsed theories based on little more than bitterness and resentment.

Edited April 3, 2008 by bendix

[lardy]

Well if you're comparing Thailand to Britain or America and finding it wanting - which is really what most of this nonsense is about - a significant factor is that it didn't have the profits of the slave trade to invest in its nascent capitalism and nor did it - in the case of the UK - nor does it - in the case of the US - have a vast empire to subject, colonise and from which it could or can extort tremendous amounts of wealth. Sadly for Thailand, it can't use grossly unfair trading arrangements to skim off the profits of other nations (did you know that the US raises as much in import tariffs from Cambodia as it does from France?) so it can't then use this wealth to subsidise exports and destroy competitive industry in far flung lands and it doesn't have a huge military to arrange for the beneficial transfers of resources and the suppression of communities foolish enough to demand that they keep what is theirs. Anyone who thinks the wealth of the West is built on the sweat of honest labour and "good-ol' US know-how" needs to pick up a history book or two, or maybe just tune into a TV channel other than Fox. It seems perverse that so many people lament the fact that Thailand isn't yet a thorough-going Anglo-Saxon Capitalist shit-hole, a little mini-me for America or Britain patronisingly to pat on the head. This is a cause for celebration, not complaint.

So all those Brits years ago never invented anything? No machines no antibiotics, steam trains, etc etc and made money off them?

Africans had their own slavery system long before the west stepped in the west just took full advantage of it.

[dominique355]

Well if you're comparing Thailand to Britain or America and finding it wanting - which is really what most of this nonsense is about - a significant factor is that it didn't have the profits of the slave trade to invest in its nascent capitalism

Thailand abolished slavery roughly about at the same time as USA. It was done by King Rama V.

and nor did it - in the case of the UK - nor does it - in the case of the US - have a vast empire to subject, colonise and from which it could or can extort tremendous amounts of wealth. Sadly for Thailand, it can't use grossly unfair trading arrangements to skim off the profits of other nations (did you know that the US raises as much in import tariffs from Cambodia as it does from France?)

But Thailand imposes up to 300% import tax and excise tax on imports such as cars, yet exports cars made in Thailand to countries, where there are no import taxes at all. Fair?

so it can't then use this wealth to subsidise exports and destroy competitive industry in far flung lands and it doesn't have a huge military to arrange for the beneficial transfers of resources and the suppression of communities foolish enough to demand that they keep what is theirs. Anyone who thinks the wealth of the West is built on the sweat of honest labour and "good-ol' US know-how" needs to pick up a history book or two, or maybe just tune into a TV channel other than Fox. It seems perverse that so many people lament the fact that Thailand isn't yet a thorough-going Anglo-Saxon Capitalist shit-hole, a little mini-me for America or Britain patronisingly to pat on the head. This is a cause for celebration, not complaint.

There is not just the USA or the UK to compare to Thailand. Other countries without imperialistic or colonialistic past have made it into wealthy, free and democratic countries (Sweden, Canada, Switzerland). Why not Thailand? I think the question is fair. And there are IMO clear reasons why. And I don't think you can and should blame others for what Thailand is today. Thailand's present situation is home made.

[HS Mauberley]

This is about wealth, not about being ‘free and democratic countries.’ Canada obviously came into being as an adjunct of the British empire so that’s not problematic. As for Sweden and Switzerland, I don’t know anything like enough about their economic history to be able to comment in depth but they would certainly have benefited from the intra-European circulation of wealth accrued through slavery and empire. This is not about ‘blaming others’; when one talks about a nation being wealthy or poor, this is going to be in relation to other nations (after all, Thailand is poor relative to the West, but wealthy relative to many nations in Africa) so what needs to explained is as much the wealth of others as the poverty of Thailand and if your starting point is the US or the UK, then it’s perfectly acceptable to point out that the wealth of these nations was founded, unarguably, on the slave trade. The fact that slavery existed in other countries is utterly beside the point (and, besides, it makes no sense to compare Thai slavery - an extra-economic means of extracting surplus value - to the Atlantic slave trade - a trade in commodities.)

"But Thailand imposes up to 300% import tax and excise tax on imports such as cars, yet exports cars made in Thailand to countries, where there are no import taxes at all. Fair?"

I hope you're not suggesting that there's some kind of equivalence here. There's no getting around the fact that although Western nations preach liberalism in world trade this is only in as much as it benefits their exports; when it comes to imports, especially from nations on the periphery of empire, protectionism is the rule.

Edited April 3, 2008 by HS Mauberley

[rewket]

only read first two pages but what im gonna say is. people that dont work in canada get about 500$ a month. ID rather be dirt poor on 6000 baht here than on 500$ a month in canada. You basicly live in the same condiiton : live in a shithole in both (by my standard) but here you dont have snow on your head, you dont have to buy so many clothes, food is cheap and tasty when in canada most of that 500$ goes for food. In canada if you want to go 10mins away to get groceries u pay 4$ twice to take the bus or a lot to get taxi, here u get tuktuk or taxi for less than 2$...

Imo western countries are way more third world than thailand. The only difference is buildings look cleaner and poor people dress better except when you go to ghettos the peop^le there actualy look way more dirty than dirtpoor thais unless they comit crimes and buy those very nice looking xxxxl clothes with that money, then they look like lingling's.

Im spending about 120 000baht a month in bangkok and maybe 75 000 in phuket and i have very very small differences with 10 000baht a month thais

[twschw]

You are spending 195,000 baht a month (120,000 + 75,000) and you live like a Thai who makes 10,000 baht a month? What in the world do you spend your money on? This doesn't make sense.

[way2muchcoffee]

Thinking.... Could I live anywhere near comfortably on 10,000 bt per month? No way!!

Edited April 3, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[PadThaiGuy]

quote]

Because I'm intelligent,

Intelligent people log onto Thai visa and exclaim they are intelligent.

OK.

[bendix]

Intelligent people log onto Thai visa and exclaim they are intelligent.

OK.

Only those who qualify for the epithet, PTG . . . .

[dominique355]

This is about wealth, not about being ‘free and democratic countries.’ Canada obviously came into being as an adjunct of the British empire so that’s not problematic. As for Sweden and Switzerland, I don’t know anything like enough about their economic history to be able to comment in depth but they would certainly have benefited from the intra-European circulation of wealth accrued through slavery and empire. This is not about ‘blaming others’; when one talks about a nation being wealthy or poor, this is going to be in relation to other nations (after all, Thailand is poor relative to the West, but wealthy relative to many nations in Africa) so what needs to explained is as much the wealth of others as the poverty of Thailand and if your starting point is the US or the UK, then it’s perfectly acceptable to point out that the wealth of these nations was founded, unarguably, on the slave trade. The fact that slavery existed in other countries is utterly beside the point (and, besides, it makes no sense to compare Thai slavery - an extra-economic means of extracting surplus value - to the Atlantic slave trade - a trade in commodities.)

"But Thailand imposes up to 300% import tax and excise tax on imports such as cars, yet exports cars made in Thailand to countries, where there are no import taxes at all. Fair?"

I hope you're not suggesting that there's some kind of equivalence here. There's no getting around the fact that although Western nations preach liberalism in world trade this is only in as much as it benefits their exports; when it comes to imports, especially from nations on the periphery of empire, protectionism is the rule.

I would believe that the question of whether or not a country is a Third World (or Developing) country has much to do with the freedom and democracy. Freedom and democracy seem to be the only way a country and its population can get out of poverty.

Isn't it a bit simplistic to reduce everything to slavery and imperialism? And would you say that a Thai slave is different form an African slace in USA? and can you explain that?

The point is that Thailand has had and still has all the prerequisits to be a free, democratic and rich country, yet it isn't. Why is that so?

About the import taxes, I am trying to show that Thailand, although it signed and adhered to the WTO, it does not follow its rules or only when it is to its advantage. It tries to take unilateral advantage of a system without paying its own dues. When the USA put an import duty on shrimps, Thailand immediately called upon WTO to stop this unfair trade barriers, but it imposes unfair trade barriers on many import goods (cars, wine, electronics etc.), not to mention the government sanctioned stealing of intellectual property (compulsory licensing of pharmaceuticals). These are cleary behaviour patterns of a Third World Country and will, in the long run, dammage the Thai economy much more than the immediate benefits. Instant gratification is what Thai politicians are looking for.

What Thailand is mostly lacking is, I believe, a culture of hard work, an ethic of acomplishing something rather than stealing it.

[Furbie]

This is about wealth, not about being 'free and democratic countries.' Canada obviously came into being as an adjunct of the British empire so that's not problematic. As for Sweden and Switzerland, I don't know anything like enough about their economic history to be able to comment in depth but they would certainly have benefited from the intra-European circulation of wealth accrued through slavery and empire. This is not about 'blaming others'; when one talks about a nation being wealthy or poor, this is going to be in relation to other nations (after all, Thailand is poor relative to the West, but wealthy relative to many nations in Africa) so what needs to explained is as much the wealth of others as the poverty of Thailand and if your starting point is the US or the UK, then it's perfectly acceptable to point out that the wealth of these nations was founded, unarguably, on the slave trade. The fact that slavery existed in other countries is utterly beside the point (and, besides, it makes no sense to compare Thai slavery - an extra-economic means of extracting surplus value - to the Atlantic slave trade - a trade in commodities.)

"But Thailand imposes up to 300% import tax and excise tax on imports such as cars, yet exports cars made in Thailand to countries, where there are no import taxes at all. Fair?"

I hope you're not suggesting that there's some kind of equivalence here. There's no getting around the fact that although Western nations preach liberalism in world trade this is only in as much as it benefits their exports; when it comes to imports, especially from nations on the periphery of empire, protectionism is the rule.

I would believe that the question of whether or not a country is a Third World (or Developing) country has much to do with the freedom and democracy. Freedom and democracy seem to be the only way a country and its population can get out of poverty.

Isn't it a bit simplistic to reduce everything to slavery and imperialism? And would you say that a Thai slave is different form an African slace in USA? and can you explain that?

The point is that Thailand has had and still has all the prerequisits to be a free, democratic and rich country, yet it isn't. Why is that so?

About the import taxes, I am trying to show that Thailand, although it signed and adhered to the WTO, it does not follow its rules or only when it is to its advantage. It tries to take unilateral advantage of a system without paying its own dues. When the USA put an import duty on shrimps, Thailand immediately called upon WTO to stop this unfair trade barriers, but it imposes unfair trade barriers on many import goods (cars, wine, electronics etc.), not to mention the government sanctioned stealing of intellectual property (compulsory licensing of pharmaceuticals). These are cleary behaviour patterns of a Third World Country and will, in the long run, dammage the Thai economy much more than the immediate benefits. Instant gratification is what Thai politicians are looking for.

What Thailand is mostly lacking is, I believe, a culture of hard work, an ethic of acomplishing something rather than stealing it.

Stop making sense. You know reality has no place in Thailand. However, I would add the corruption issue to mix - as countries with democracy but high levels of currpotion don't do well either. I also make a distiction here between general corruption (paying to move permits through the bureacracy quicky) and high levels of currpotion, which prevent a society from moving forward. Put simply, Thailand is being held back by corruption. Corruption sank the Philippines, which in the 60's was considered one of the best economies in Asia. Thailand got a free ride in the 80s with foreign support. In the 90s it was a free investment ride. But, corruption kept all this money from being invested properly and in areas like health care, education and everything else you need to compete globally. Now, there is no Cold War and Vietnam and China are taking a big bite out of their FDI. If they don't clean up on the corruption front, Thailand will be like the Philippines, a slow steady decline due to corruption.

[Naam]

This is about wealth, not about being ‘free and democratic countries.’ Canada obviously came into being as an adjunct of the British empire so that’s not problematic. As for Sweden and Switzerland, I don’t know anything like enough about their economic history to be able to comment in depth but they would certainly have benefited from the intra-European circulation of wealth accrued through slavery and empire.

does not knowing "anything like enough" entitle to make rubbish assumptions?

[Maigo6]

After all the critics of Thailand have had their say as to why Thailand is as it is, I would suggest looking at your choices.

Would you rather be in Monaco Monte Carlo, St Tropez, Aspen, Bahamas, Beverley Hills etc ? Rich people live in places like this.

Right, you can't afford to live in these places, you don't have enough money to live as you want in your own country either, you're just another face in the crowd, a nobody.

So you trot off to a 3rd world country thinking you will be a rich man there, then you discover there are also restrictions on what you can and cannot do, there are also all the problems involved with being a Foreigner in a developing nation, you can't understand the language, you certainly cannot grasp the culture, you think the food smells funny, in your mind the people are of course lazy and inferior to you, yet you choose to live in a Country amongst the very people you constantly critisise.

You see a Thai guy riding around in BMW or a Benz that you can only dream of owning in Thailand and you are resentful, you think how can this inferior person afford that, and why can't I !!

You can't own Land, you have always known that, you CAN own land in your own country yet you still CHOOSE to live in a country where you CAN'T, then spend the rest of your miserable lives complaining about a situation you always knew existed.

There are a certain ammount of posters that do nothing but put Thailand and Thai people down, yet they still stay in Thailand. They have to ask themselves why they stay in a country they're so unhappy in.

Surely they never moved to a developing nation with the idea that everything is perfect and tailor made to suit them in every way !

You try to come across as intelligent, cool, all knowing, you actually come across as bitter, resentful, and very unhappy.

Your constant critisism of Thai people amazes me, considering you choose to live amongst them, and even marry into a Thai family.

I feel sorry for the Thai wife, I bet she never dreamt that she would be married to some miserable old git that does nothing but sit at a computer and trash her Country and fellow Thai people.

Have a nice day chaps.

[Naam]

5. But to cut his short....as I said....you could write a long book about why many Thais are poor.

While you're at it, can you also write a book about Why so many Farangs, with all the opportunities they have had in life are on the bones of their azz too.

a good one Maigo!

[ThNiner]

After all the critics of Thailand have had their say as to why Thailand is as it is, I would suggest looking at your choices.

Would you rather be in Monaco Monte Carlo, St Tropez, Aspen, Bahamas, Beverley Hills etc ? Rich people live in places like this.

Right, you can't afford to live in these places, you don't have enough money to live as you want in your own country either, you're just another face in the crowd, a nobody.

So you trot off to a 3rd world country thinking you will be a rich man there, then you discover there are also restrictions on what you can and cannot do, there are also all the problems involved with being a Foreigner in a developing nation, you can't understand the language, you certainly cannot grasp the culture, you think the food smells funny, in your mind the people are of course lazy and inferior to you, yet you choose to live in a Country amongst the very people you constantly critisise.

You see a Thai guy riding around in BMW or a Benz that you can only dream of owning in Thailand and you are resentful, you think how can this inferior person afford that, and why can't I !!

You can't own Land, you have always known that, you CAN own land in your own country yet you still CHOOSE to live in a country where you CAN'T, then spend the rest of your miserable lives complaining about a situation you always knew existed.

There are a certain ammount of posters that do nothing but put Thailand and Thai people down, yet they still stay in Thailand. They have to ask themselves why they stay in a country they're so unhappy in.

Surely they never moved to a developing nation with the idea that everything is perfect and tailor made to suit them in every way !

You try to come across as intelligent, cool, all knowing, you actually come across as bitter, resentful, and very unhappy.

Your constant critisism of Thai people amazes me, considering you choose to live amongst them, and even marry into a Thai family.

I feel sorry for the Thai wife, I bet she never dreamt that she would be married to some miserable old git that does nothing but sit at a computer and trash her Country and fellow Thai people.

Have a nice day chaps.

[bendix]

After all the critics of Thailand have had their say as to why Thailand is as it is, I would suggest looking at your choices.

Would you rather be in Monaco Monte Carlo, St Tropez, Aspen, Bahamas, Beverley Hills etc ? Rich people live in places like this.

Right, you can't afford to live in these places, you don't have enough money to live as you want in your own country either, you're just another face in the crowd, a nobody.

So you trot off to a 3rd world country thinking you will be a rich man there, then you discover there are also restrictions on what you can and cannot do, there are also all the problems involved with being a Foreigner in a developing nation, you can't understand the language, you certainly cannot grasp the culture, you think the food smells funny, in your mind the people are of course lazy and inferior to you, yet you choose to live in a Country amongst the very people you constantly critisise.

You see a Thai guy riding around in BMW or a Benz that you can only dream of owning in Thailand and you are resentful, you think how can this inferior person afford that, and why can't I !!

You can't own Land, you have always known that, you CAN own land in your own country yet you still CHOOSE to live in a country where you CAN'T, then spend the rest of your miserable lives complaining about a situation you always knew existed.

There are a certain ammount of posters that do nothing but put Thailand and Thai people down, yet they still stay in Thailand. They have to ask themselves why they stay in a country they're so unhappy in.

Surely they never moved to a developing nation with the idea that everything is perfect and tailor made to suit them in every way !

You try to come across as intelligent, cool, all knowing, you actually come across as bitter, resentful, and very unhappy.

Your constant critisism of Thai people amazes me, considering you choose to live amongst them, and even marry into a Thai family.

I feel sorry for the Thai wife, I bet she never dreamt that she would be married to some miserable old git that does nothing but sit at a computer and trash her Country and fellow Thai people.

Have a nice day chaps.

Post of the month.

And the funny thing is that the usual resentful sods will read this but not respond to the very valid comments because they know their position is completely untenable.