Thais Using "farang" Instead Of Our Name In Conversation

[traveller5000]

Can you tell us the sentence your hairdresser used the word "farang" in.

That might help determine weather or not she was being rude or just plain ignorant

When a Thai starts referring to you as "man" then its time to walk out the door.

When I was waiting reading a mag, the seat became vacated and since there was another guy in the room before I came, I continued to mind my own business, looking at the mag. So she then says "farang (its your turn)". Then she uses the word unnecessarily in a few other ways, like "farang, how much off the top today?".

Her tone was aggressive and provocative, possibly trying to be humourous, for the benifit of the others in the room perhaps. I think she has a "talart" mouth, meaning a "marketplace slang" talker, or a rough uneducated talker. But that is no excuse for her behaviour.

I don't think she holds any animosity towards me though. At the end of the haircut she invited me to go travelling with her family. I declined.

Edited April 8, 2008 by traveller5000

[way2muchcoffee]

I know ThNiner. And really, I do appreciate your efforts to help us understand. Not joking here. So many problems in the world revolve around miscommunication and misunderstanding.

I would encourage you to stop using the word 'farang' because now you know that many, probably most, Westerners find this offensive. If you could explain to your friends how it makes us feel and encourage them to stop using the word, it would show a sincere desire to make foreigners feel welcome and comfortable during their stay in your country.

I have lived here for 6 years and am no longer bothered very much when I hear the word 'farang'. Sometimes though it is upsetting. I will try to remember your words at those times, ThNiner, so that I don't take offense and can let it go.

Edited April 8, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[ThNiner]

When I was waiting reading a mag, the seat became vacated and since there was another guy in the room before I came, I continued to mind my own business, looking at the mag. So she then says "farang (its your turn)". Then she uses the word unnecessarily in a few other ways, like "farang, how much off the top today?".

Her tone was aggressive and provocative, possibly trying to be humourous, for the benifit of the others in the room perhaps. I think she has a "talart" mouth, meaning a "marketplace slang" talker, or a rough uneducated talker. But that is no excuse for her behaviour.

I think this was exactly what happened. She was trying to be humorous but unfortunately she was oblivious to how you might have taken it. It's just unfortunate.

[ThNiner]

Way2muchcoffee, I myself don't say "farang" in a white person's face. And I don't think any of my Thai friends do either. I guess we all understand that it's rude to do that, eventhough we don't consider the word itself a racial slur. As for the rest of my fellow countrymen, I guess it will just take time and will ultimately come down to individual manners.

[lannarebirth]

For me, sometimes I am called 'Muay' (หมวย) which mean chinese girl because I am Thai/Chinese.

I agree with the comments about ignorance & ethnocentricism. Among highly educated Thais I never hear the word "farang" to my face anyway. Government insecurity and brainwashing have been behind much of this; it's true in much of Asia.

I've was introduced once to "Phra Thep" by a local Chao. They both called me farang, when speaking of me in the third person. Two more classy ladies I haven't met. I assure you they meant no slur in using that term. You people are too self absorbed.

Me, I reply with either "sapparot" (pinapple) or "Lao," not "Khon Lao" because they don't use "Khon Farang." If they reply they are not Lao, I ask why their manners are so Lao. This usually ends the conversation, but then most conversations w/ someone constantly calling you "farang" are not worth having anyway.

Doesn't that make you the racist?

[twschw]

I appreciate the fact that a few Thai people have taken the time to respond and note that their tone is sincere. Thank you for your comments. This board needs more input from Thai people in my opinion.

The problem is that the word 'farang', when used as a label for white foreigners, offends many many westerners. The fact that many find this offensive make the use of the word racist. It has nothing to do with the the state of mind of the person using the word.

For example, I have nothing against black people, but if I refer to a black person as a nigger, it is considered racist.

Many, if not most, "black people" find being referred to by their skin color offensive. You can't have it both ways, in one breath saying farang is racist then in the next referring to people by their skin color.

You are perhaps correct in saying "It has nothing to do with the the state of mind of the person using the word." I think it has more to do with the state of mind of the listener.

[way2muchcoffee]

Very good point indeed twschw.

I should be more mindful. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I apologize if I have caused offense.

Edited April 8, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[ade100]

Khunandy is exactly right. It's not the word in itself that's offensive, but the way it's used. I really don't know how to explain this to you, Beardog and Way2muchcoffee, "farang" is not the same as the N words or other words for Jewish and Chinese people. To Thai people, "farang" is just the same as Caucasian. It's simple as that. There's no racist or negative undertones, unlike the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's ".

I mean when we say farang, the feeling underneath it is mostly neutral, a lot of times could be possitive, and rarely (I emphasize rarely) it could be negative. And this is completely different from the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's " which whenever they are used (by people of different races), they are always negative or extremely negative. (I give you an example; we Thais could say, "Dek farang khon nan narak mak" = That white kid is really cute. In this case, "farang" is used as a compliment. But I really have never heard of the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's " used that way by white people. )

So it's really odd for us to see you guys equate "farang to the N word, "kik* " or "Slant I's ". Also being seen as different doesn't mean that it's always bad or you are inferior. A lot of times, you can be different from us in a good way. So to sum it up, it's just like what Khunandy's said. "it is the tone it is used in to project the meaning." It's not the word itself.

Thanks for presenting the Thai point of view It’s really great to have Thai folk joining in these discussions.

One thing I wanted to add is that people generally prefer, if they are going to be labelled, a label that says something accurate about who they are.

I remember when I was young the word “Golliwog” was a much used term and believed to be non-offensive. I even remember collecting “golliwog” statues given away free with Robertsons Jam (they were little models of black jazz musicians).

Today however the word is totally unacceptable. Black people (and I am going to use the word “black” because all the black guys I knew in London referred to themselves as “black guys”) prefer a label that is meaningful. So we have “African Americans”, “Afro Caribbeans”, “Native Americans”, "Eurasians", etc.

The word “farang” literally means guavas. So what does it say about us, who we are and where we come from? Nothing, just that we look different to Thais.

I’m not going to get too upset about it, I hear the word every day. But I bet that as Thailand becomes more educated and more multi-cultural the word falls out of usage (except by the most ill-educated and insensitive Thais).

[aaaaaa]

May I have a humble opinion to this topic as a Thai woman...

When Thai people call "Caucasion" as "Farang", they don't mean to rude to you. We Thai, call you Caucasion like this since the ancient time. I have read from this website, but can't remember which one that "farang"-word come from Franch which in Thai, we said fa-rang-ses (ผรั่งเศส). and it is become just "farang" in this day, that's it.

By the way, your situation, it is up to her tone....

Dear Apple,

thank you for your interesting comment and trying to assure us, farangs,

that there is nothing wrong about being called "farang"

however you said it yourself "it is up to her tone"

exactly - up to their tone!!! and in MANY situations they use the TONE in word "farang" which is RUDE or disdain !

Apple, I understand that you are trying to make us feel good - thank you!

but unfortunately NOT all other Thai people are same as you, and also you are not foreigner and you can not possibly know and experience and feel yourself WHAT and HOW some Thai people treat foreigners.

since you are Thai - please tell me, WHAT word is used for "foreigner" in the Thai dictionary?

I especially looked in - and ... surprise ! it is NOT word "farang" - but "chao tang chad"

and THIS word which is POLITE - that is why usually in Thai TV News or some other serious or more or less official programs they DO NOT use word "farang" - but say "chao tang chad"

only in some programs where they talk about foreigners with sarcasm, or openly make fun of or even bluntly blame for something - they say "farang"

I am sure that if you are Thai (even Thai-chinese) - you must be watching TV a lot every day.

so, please pay attention WHAT and HOW they say - and then tell us honestly here - WHAT do you hear?

and BTW - not to mention how Thai people call NON Caucasians, those from neighboring countries like Laos, Khmer, Myanmar... they call them with much more derogative word "tang dao" ! and this word they not even shy to use even in TV News etc - - like "today police has raided such and such place and rounded up 15 "tang dao" .... "

like, I came to KFC and the staff there serve other people and pretend not noticing me completely, till another girl comes who has a badge "Shift supervisor" and ask those 2 staff - - what about this customer. and one of them, girl with back turned to me, not even turning to face me gestures in my direction and says something "blah blah ... FARANG"

and ONLY because that other woman is a supervisor (well, may be she is more polite too, by her own nature) - she asks me "may I help you?" I said - yes, sure you may help me, but I want THAT one who is being so rude to turn her face here and HELP me.

when supervisor has told her - she turned and first I've explained to her (in Thai language), that First of all, I am NOT farang (well, certainly not a French ) but "chao tang chad"; Second - I am as much customer as ANYONE else who walks in - and since she works here she can't neglect me, while serving all other people who came even AFTER me; and Third - I am not a cat, dog, or cockroach or even "Tang Dao" that she so openly and so IMPOLITELY shows her DISRESPECT to me - I am a HUMAN, and I didn't come begging here or something - I came just as everybody else - to BUY something and to pay money for it ! supervisor has fully agreed with all these points and apologized on behalf of that girl.

I could give many more examples, but I try NOT to remember them all.

like many Thais try to go ahead in line, and never like to wait - and if they see that foreigner is ahead, they say "oh, that FARANG" - like they are so annoyed

not to mention children who come teasing "farang, farang" and if you try to ignore them - they start to say something more disrespectful. once I told such kids (in Thai): "you think that because FARANG can't understand Thai - you can say WHATEVER you want to them and it's Ok? how old are you? and how old are your momie and and daddy? and how old is "farang"? may be "farang" is older than your mom and dad, huh - why do you not show some respect? [me] Does your father and mother or teacher in school teach you any manners ?" pho me may song malayat?)

they were instantly dumb folded and mother came over and forced her kid to say apology to me. that was in swimming pool in our condo, mother was watching them from the balcony. now THESE kids are from well-to-do (minimum what is called "middle class") Thai family which can AFFORD live in Condo, with little garden in front and facing swimming pool - that means they DO have nice life and proper EDUCATION in some good GOOD school. and I am sure that their parents themselves have graduated from some Uni and have nice respectable job.

what I mean is - these kids are not some street beggars or slum dwellers, or their parents are not Isanese "motosai" driver or som-tam seller on the road ! these kids DO have PROPER education !

so, WHY they show such lack of manners?

the only possible explanation I can think of - is that PARENTS of these kids talk about foreigners in this way at home and kids listen to that, and therefore feel that there is nothing wrong about using such words or mock foreigners. for me it shows clearly the attitude of Thai ADULTS - because children are sort of direct reflection of their parents: because children have no so much duplicity as adults and they are more tended to show what's on their mind in their words and behavior practically instantly !

and this thing happened many times elsewhere - especially in supermarkets or department stores. often I want to tell such kids the same (as I said to those kids in swimming pool) - but I DO know that their parents nearby would be VERY embarrassed and "lose face" a lot, that's why I simply tolerate it or pretend being stupid and not noticing their lack of manners !

this is young generation of this nation and its future, who are more innocent and straightforward/ blunt than adults. when they grow up and become teenagers, and later on adults - their disdain and "look down" (as Thais say) attitude grows with them !

so, I think Thai people should stop to pretend that "farang" word is innocent and there is nothing rude about it - but EDUCATE their young and even less educated adults about proper RESPECT to others. otherwise they should get ready that some foreigners sooner or later will also start to call them "Slant eyes" or similar derogative term! and let's see how they will like it!

I am 1'000'000% sure - they will NOT like it, as much as no any Thai will like if other Thai will call them "Tang Dao"

or may be each and every of us, foreigners in Thailand when called "farang" must turn to that Thai person and answer:

"Yes, Tang Dao?" and let's see how THEY will like it !

Edited April 8, 2008 by aaaaaa

[barky]

Way2muchcoffee, I myself don't say "farang" in a white person's face. And I don't think any of my Thai friends do either. I guess we all understand that it's rude to do that, eventhough we don't consider the word itself a racial slur. As for the rest of my fellow countrymen, I guess it will just take time and will ultimately come down to individual manners.

No you would'nt say it to their face only when their back is turned. And your Thai friends don't . Sorry , I don't believe it. I think a few Thais think that it is rude, but use it anyhow out of habit. Not thinking for a moment that it might offend why? They don't care. The trouble is there are times when the word is used in context and appropriately , but too often it is used in a quite derogatory way. You have words for man, gentleman, boy, customer, person, client, patient, So why don't you use them? Why do you Thais talk about a westener to another Thai in front of the westener and use the F word. It's just Rude, incensitive, un-caring. Thesedays when I here the word use for me I try to swithch off and put it down to ignorance, en-educated ignorance.

[ThNiner]

"Tang Dao" means immigrant. It's not a racial slur either. In fact it's a legal term used for any immigrant not specific to any race. I heard the term used by my Chinese grandparents all the time to refer to themselves when they had to deal with legal rights and stuff.

And aaaa, I understand that you hate generalization and racism. So what's with this?

I am sure that if you are Thai (even Thai-chinese) - you must be watching TV a lot every day.

[ThNiner]

"Tang Dao~" is not the same as alien or "Tang dao." The first one, immigrant, has the high tone at the end. The latter has a low tone. They are two different words. Just wanted to clarify.

And Barky, frankly, I think you have to look at yourself too and the situations you were in. I'm sure if you are a nice guy, you'd hear the word "farang" used in a postive way a lot more often.

As for my Thai friends not saying "farang" in a white guy's face, I can honestly tell you again that it's the truth. Because we do hang out with "farang" friends on a regular basis at our school.

[khunandy]

"Yes, Tang Dao?" and let's see how THEY will like it ! :rolleyes

:

What does this mean?

Sorry, I didnt read the posts above

Edited April 8, 2008 by khunandy

[ThNiner]

"Yes, Tang Dao?" and let's see how THEY will like it ! :rolleyes

:

What does this mean?

I think he meant "Tang Dao~", high tone for "Dao."

"Tang" literally means different.

"Dao~": I really don't know what it means, as I've only seen it used with "Tang."

The lower tone, "Dao", means planet. So the lower toned one, "Tang Dao" means another planet or from another planet.

But I'm sure Aaaaaa meant "Tang Dao~." We Thais don't call immigrants or foriengners "Tang Dao". We call them "Tang Dao~" or "Khon Tang Dao~." And I have to repeat again that it's not a racial slur either.

EDIT: to make it easier to read.

Edited April 8, 2008 by ThNiner

[jellymeister]

Call me thick-skinned or overly tolerant, but I do not feel insulted at all….it’s their country and they can call me whatever they want(as long as they keep bringing cold beer and tasty food)…….

[dannyman]

So to sum it up, it's just like what Khunandy's said. "it is the tone it is used in to project the meaning." It's not the word itself.

That's basically it.

The root of 'farang' is found in the persian 'ferengi' - originally describing traders from the frankish empire, and has traveled through the cultures via trade routes.

As you explained - it very much depends how the term is used, pronounced, and in which context it is applied. It can be applied in a derogatory way, in a respectful way, and in a purely descriptive way.

In colloquial Thai one hardly comes around using the term 'farang' - it simply is much easier and faster than using the more stilted 'daang chaat', 'daang prateet', etc.

Unfortunately many westerners do mistake the term, or are overly sensitive, mostly because of a lack of Thai language abilities, and lack of relationships with Thais beyond the purely superficial. Well, or an overwhelming amount of relationships Thais that are making money with the more instinct driven desires of some westerners.

I have found though many Thais being very insecure trying to use this term nowadays, because they have met westerners being offended, and struggle to find an equivalent that is not perceived as an offense.

I do not get offended by the term 'Farang' - i only get offended when it is used in a derogatory or humiliating manner.

I've heard this word FARANG for 28 year's,not only in Thailand. GET OVER IT!

[jdinasia]

I appreciate the fact that a few Thai people have taken the time to respond and note that their tone is sincere. Thank you for your comments. This board needs more input from Thai people in my opinion.

The problem is that the word 'farang', when used as a label for white foreigners, offends many many westerners. The fact that many find this offensive make the use of the word racist. It has nothing to do with the the state of mind of the person using the word.

For example, I have nothing against black people, but if I refer to a black person as a nigger, it is considered racist.

Sorry but like most analogy, that is crap.

That you differentiate a person by skin color is not in and of itself 'racist'. If it is then referring to someone as 'a black guy' is racist. In and of itself it is not. The same goes with the word farang. If someone chooses to get offended by it then so be it. It is their choice.

I have heard the term used in a derogatory manner, almost exclusively in areas with huge amounts of sex tourism, and really, who can blame them. I have almost never heard 'farang' used in a derogatory manner in my normal daily life though. I didn't move here to try and make Thailand into a PC copy of the West and that includes trying to change the way their own language is used.

[kiakaha]

I dont care what I'm called,.....but when people say my nose is too big to play the bamboo flute..man that really hurts my soul..mommyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I care what people do, not what they say.

Edited April 8, 2008 by kiakaha

[way2muchcoffee]

But when a significant percentage of people find a racially designated term offensive, that term is indeed racist. Sorry you don't agree JD.

I do agree that my analogy was crap though. LOL

Edited April 8, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[barky]

Thniner, What do you mean, if I was a nice guy? So if a person is not a nice guy as you say then using a racial slur is OK? I put it to you there is no reason for it. But I'm sure you beg to differ. This old argument of we westeners don't understand and that Thais mean no disrespect is rubbish. Yes many times the word is used appropriately but equally as many times it is not. I can be walking down the street minding my own business, ensuring no eye contact is made with a Thai and as I walk past, say, a group of Taxi, motorcycle, tuk tuk, touts, hawkers, etc. some stupid creep has just gotta open their dumb mouth and say something stupid accompanied with the F word. I mean it gets boring. Yes I try to ignore it and keep walking but it just helps to confirm my belief.

[meadish_sweetball]

So to sum it up, it's just like what Khunandy's said. "it is the tone it is used in to project the meaning." It's not the word itself.

That's basically it.

The root of 'farang' is found in the persian 'ferengi' - originally describing traders from the frankish empire, and has traveled through the cultures via trade routes.

As you explained - it very much depends how the term is used, pronounced, and in which context it is applied. It can be applied in a derogatory way, in a respectful way, and in a purely descriptive way.

In colloquial Thai one hardly comes around using the term 'farang' - it simply is much easier and faster than using the more stilted 'daang chaat', 'daang prateet', etc.

Unfortunately many westerners do mistake the term, or are overly sensitive, mostly because of a lack of Thai language abilities, and lack of relationships with Thais beyond the purely superficial. Well, or an overwhelming amount of relationships Thais that are making money with the more instinct driven desires of some westerners.

I have found though many Thais being very insecure trying to use this term nowadays, because they have met westerners being offended, and struggle to find an equivalent that is not perceived as an offense.

I do not get offended by the term 'Farang' - i only get offended when it is used in a derogatory or humiliating manner.

Agree 100 % with you and Thniner. But I've pretty much given up on this subject (this could be the 64th time or so somebody brings it up in some form or other) because some people are unable to concede they may have been labouring with a misconception based on ignorance. Then there's the usual trolls too, just out to spread disinformation.

[aaaaaa]

Khunandy is exactly right. It's not the word in itself that's offensive, but the way it's used.

YES, YOU ARE 100%

and THAT is exactly what we are talking about here and WHY we do not like this word :

THE WAY how many (if not majority) of Thai people use it in most of situations!

you do not have to educate us about the actual meaning of this word. most of us here are expats, people who live here in Thailand for many years, have Thai wifes, children, relatives, friends ! and most of us DO speak or at least understand Thai language! if you do not believe it - make another thread and Poll with it for the members of ThaiVisa Forum and ask - how many people here DO speak Thai, or at least UNDERSTAND Thai ? and you might be surprised !

so, I think it is you who misunderstands us that WE misunderstand the meaning of the word "farang"! I was attending Thai language course and teacher has explained to us about word "farang" there. also my wife is Thai and she explained even more later. also I read a lot and have learned from MANY sources (this matter about word "farang" is being discussed A LOT on internet! just search Google). I DO know that word "farang" actually has no any bad meaning.

all we are talking about here is - THE WAY how many Thai people OFTEN use this word - and THAT is not respectful !

She was trying to be humorous but unfortunately she was oblivious to how you might have taken it. It's just unfortunate.

Well, my dear Thai friend, get ready!

next time when you "Humorously" call a foreigner "Farang" and he "HUMOROSLY" answers you "Yes, Tang Dao?" -

PLEEEEEEAAASE do NOT be offended ! it is just HUMOROUSLY !

and if you do not like it - well, that is "UNFORTUNATE" !

because perhaps that "farang" just trying to be friendly with you and want to have some fun, using "HUMOR"

yeh, sort of "Ice breaker"

but somehow I have a feeling that you might fire back at that farang with some obscene insults

(if not punch in the face)

P.S.

BTW - my wife is from North Thailand and often she was VERY upset that some Thai people said in her direction Lao, when we were passing them by! like once we walked in our neighborhood and some teenagers were siting there and they said: "oh, funny this farang - seems like he prefers Lao?" she was upset for the rest of that day, almost crying: "I am not Lao - I am Thai ! my mom is from North but my dad is from Sukhothai !!!" I tried my best to make her feel better, even offered her - do you want I will go back to those guys and teach them some manners? but she refused.

so, THIS is how YOU, THAI people themselves feel if someone calls you some word what you do not like !

and yet - this is also how you MOCK and belittle other people, even your own kind !

for example it is not a secret that Northerners are often called "Meau" (they called that Thaksin on Thai TV programs even while he was still a PM, a person who holds big power - what to say about ordinary people whom they can slant without any fear of consequences?) and Isanese they call "Lao". well, even just village people they call "Ban-nork" and often THE WAY they use this word "Ban-nork" is DISRESPECTFUL and "look down" very much !

you perhaps you would also try to deny it?

so, it is time Thai people start realize what RACISM is: it is not only discrimination on race or skin color (which is in PLENTY here, and quite open and not shy of at all), but ANY kind of discrimination on the many differences !

this is from definition accepted by United Nations:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_discri...egal_definition

and now examine sincerely and honestly how it is in Thailand and tell yourself and us frankly:

IS there RACIAL DISCRIMINATION in Thailand or not?

small tip: if you have difficulty to admit its existence - just do simple Google search by keywords "Racial Discrimination in Thailand" - and you might be surprised! not even to mention cases which attracted International attention of big organasations as UN, Human Rights watchdog etc (about how Akha, Hmong in the North or Pattanees/ Jawis in the South are CONTINUED to be treated).

just watch some Thai commercials on television:

like now they pay Ad about bird-nest drink ("Scoth"?) - and they show a man who always is with some black girls, and his white girlfriend is very angry, and the background song is very cool and "Funny" (yes, "Humorous") with meaning like "why are you doing this to me?!" but the words they use are what is called "play of words", because it sounds very much like "Doo doo doo doo da-dam" - and I bet most of Forum members here no that "Dam" means "black" in Thain language! yes, mi wife explained to me that the ACTUAL words being used are not "Dam" but something else ("doo doo doo doo theur tham. tam mai teung tham kab chan dai?" ) but the context in which they use it and the situation (this man dancing or embracing 2 black girls) - at least HINTS at what is actually meant by that: "WHY are you doing this to me? you prefer dark skin girls to me!"

another commercial was few months ago, as I recall about some chewing gum: girl walks on the market and all the fishes and ducks and chickens sing to her in chorus: "Dam, dam..." girl becomes very upset and almost cries, till finally some man takes a pity on her and gives her ... TEETH WHITENING chewing gum !

and before that was Ad of some toothpaste (no, not Darlie - which has become classic example already), I think "Lotus" or some similar name: that black African man save some little girl. then he comes back to his little room, lies down on his bed and... turns into squeezeful of dark color tooth paste. and the comment: "Black - but Good !"

well, yeah - you can say - this is just "Humor" and it is "Unfortunate" that some people may "misunderstand" it othewrise or as entirely something else than more just good intended joke !

yes, for you and many Thai people it might seem so - as nothing more than "Humor"

but THAT is exactly what many people here are talking about: that there is something wrong about such thinking, if you can make such a "Humor" and feel that it is those who feel NOT funny about it are wrong - not you, who makes such a joke!

[meadish_sweetball]

But when a significant percentage of people find a racially designated term offensive, that term is indeed racist.

Even if one is the offense is based on a misconception? I don't agree.

A significant percentage of people believed for a long time the earth was flat and immobile.

But as Galilei mumbled through his teeth, '...and yet, she's moving'.

[barky]

I dont care what I'm called,.....but when people say my nose is too big to play the bamboo flute..man that really hurts my soul..mommyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I care what people do, not what they say.

I am not sure you truly mean this. Hypotheticaly, if I gave you a mouthful abuse (deserved or not)that would be OK by you? No resentment? No wish to retaliate? No response..nothing?

[jdinasia]

So much Drama 'aaaaaa' and so incorrect also!

"Most of us" on this forum are not in Thailand. I think about 18% are actually in Thailand. Therefore Most of us are not expats, also most expats don't speak Thai and most expats don't understand spoken OR written Thai.

I actually do speak and read Thai at a decent level and I know that what you say is just not true (in MY experience). Then again I don't live in the countryside with a wife and I don't frequent bars/areas etc for tourists.

Most often the people I run into casually on a regular basis refer to me with something and 'farang' added to it ... most often Moddam's owner. Sometimes the farang with the Joker etc etc. I can say that outside of Lower Suk, Pattaya, and Patong; I have never heard the word farang casually used in a negative way.

I think the BIG issue is that the farang in here only really know that one word of Thai, and when they hear it on the street they suddenly realize they are being talked about, then they get paranoid etc ....

[aaaaaa]

customer[/color]),

I thought Kaek was "visitor" and usually (though not always) used in association with people of indian origin.

Cheers

as I know, Thai word for "customer" is "lookhaa", and most of times I was called so in the establishments where they TRAIN their staff and staff DOES CARE for customers !

The problem is that the word 'farang', when used as a label for white foreigners, offends many many westerners. The fact that many find this offensive make the use of the word racist. It has nothing to do with the the state of mind of the person using the word.

I agree ! although the state of mind also DOES matter! each and every person can FEEL the attitude and the tone how another person address him or speaks about him in his very presence!

if, for example, Thai people would say this word "FARANG" nicely and smilingly, and tender, with HEART WARMTH shown in their voice and SINCERE feeling which usually can hardly be facked - THEN I will NEVER object to being called "FARANG" !

I swear ! but the way how they say this word "FARANG" - THAT is mostly what irks and makes feel bad ! I do not feel any sincere friendly and good intended humor in it or anything like that: most often I hear in this word such things as DISDAIN, ANNOYANCE, MOCKERY, even blunt DISRESPECT or OFFENSE ! because THIS is what most of Thai people [YES, NOT ALL of them !] who use this word put into this word !

and no any amount of explanations will CHANGE THAT !

yes, many Thai people ARE friendly and sincere and they use this word "farang" innocently. in one case in the nearby fresh market where I go often, some vegetable seller said to his wife when I approached their stall next time: "oh, farang ma leu"

I said to him: My name is such and such. so, from that day on, they NEVER call me "farang" but only by my name and they in fact feel sort of grateful that I have introduced myself, because they ARE friendly people and rather prefer to call me by my name, as a sign of more close relations, not some impersonal word as "farang"!

with these people - YES, I didn't feel offended or upset, and I DO agree that they used word "farang" without any bad meaning, but simply because they didn't know how else to call me ! and the evidence is - that they STOPPED to use word "farang" by themselves, I didn't ask them to do that !

now THIS what I feel being friendly and sincere!

[Dakhar]

I'm also Thai and can confirm that the word, farang, isn't meant to be derogatory at all. Like MidoriApple said, it just means "white people" to us, Thais. It,in no way, is a racial slur.

I hope you guys don't take it the wrong way as well. (And I'd agree that calling someone whose name you know a "farang" is a bit rude. But that doesn't mean that "farang" is a racial slur or has any negative connotations about your race. It's just what we call white people.)

As a native of one of the confederate states of North America, where the clan is still strong, and we have hoods under our beds and participate in weekly cross burnings....

when we hang a non-white person we do it out of culture really.... we mean no harm.

So when you visit Jasper Texas, and you find yourself bound to a rope that is fastened to the bumper of a pick-up-truck, just remember (as the truck starts to accelerate)... don't take it the wrong way, it is just what we do to non-white people, it in no way a "racial" thing.

(Purely hypothetical, and I in no way condone such activities)

[way2muchcoffee]

I think the closest analogy would be referring to a Thai person as an 'Oriental'. Such a term is often considered impolite, especially in American English, and possibly pejorative or racist when used as a noun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental

Edited April 8, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[ade100]

But when a significant percentage of people find a racially designated term offensive, that term is indeed racist.

Even if one is the offense is based on a misconception? I don't agree.

A significant percentage of people believed for a long time the earth was flat and immobile.

But as Galilei mumbled through his teeth, '...and yet, she's moving'.

So when a significant percentage of people found the word "Golliwog" offensive, we stopped using it in the West. I am sure there were plenty of "whites" using the word thinking it was just a bit of fun and totaly non-offensive. What are you saying? Do you think we should carry on using the word "golliwog" or do you think that group to whom it is being aimed should get to decide?

[jdinasia]

I think the closest analogy would be something like referring to a Thai person as an 'Oriental'. Such a term is considered impolite, possibly pejorative or racist when used as a noun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental

I assume that you mean in English and in the West? (Particularly the US and less so the UK?)

Again ... why try and make Thailand over into some PC Westernized place instead of accepting it for what it is?