Pasties.

[sceadugenga]

I made some English style pasties the other day. They were a great success, the filling superb, but the crust was a bit hard.

In the past I always used frozen pastry sheets but can't get them up here so made my own, the standard mix... all purpose flour, salt, shortening and ice water. I used butter for the shortening which may have been the problem. Any ideas?

[jayenram]

At least here in Surin, they sell frozen Phyllo pastry sheets in Makro.

I use them for spring rolls.

[Cuban]

> I used butter for the shortening which may have been the problem. Any ideas?

I'm no chef but I would guess that the water content of the butter might be a problem, try gently heating the butter until it is melted then remove the oil/fat from the milky water (milk solids) This link discusses. I guess the butter would give a sweet flavor - try adding some pork fat (fry some nasty Thai bacon - you get loads).

[mrtoad]

You can't beat a decent pasty

Cornish Pasty Ingredients -Recipe

For the Pastry ( This is for Shortcrust)

One and a half Cups Plain Flour

Lard or vegetable fat

Pinch of salt

Water

For the pasty filling

Chuck steak or skirt

Two Large potatoes

Half a large swede (turnip as second best)

One large onion

Salt and pepper to taste

Water

Cornwall Pastie Recipe Method

The Pastry

Place flour and salt in a bowl, rub in the fat, until the mixture is so fine that it falls through the fingers. Tip mixture onto a lightly floured table top. With your index finger make a well in the centre of the mixture. Add water a little at a time until it forms a pliable but stiff dough.

The Cornish Pasty Filling

Finely chop the steak. Dice the potato, swede and onion. You may prefer to slice them. Add seasoning. Mix all in a bowl or to be really authentic use your kitchen table top.

Using a floured table top roll out half the dough to a circle the size of a plate. Make a mound of the filling in the centre of the dough. Dampen round the edge of the dough with either water, or milk. Fold over the dough, to make a half moon shape, crimping the edges. Make a slit to let out steam. Brush with beaten egg to glaze.

Cooking your Cornish Pasty Place on lightly greased metal baking tray in the middle of a preheated oven, for around 40 minutes at 450 F . The pasty is cooked when their undersides turn brown and crisp.

[donna]

yum. youre making me hungry for a good pastie!

[sceadugenga]

No Swedes or Turnips up here either Mr T, but I don't mind carrot in a pasty. You just have to cut it up fairly fine, or even grate it as it cooks slower than the other ingredients.

Cuban, a lot of recipes tell you to actually cut your butter up then put in the freezer for half an hour before rubbing it into the flour.

I'm considering using olive oil actually.

Jayenram, is that Phylo or filo pastry? (Just did a Google, it's the same thing, sorry). I never thought of Macro, I'll have a look there after the silly seasons over.

[Cuban]

Cuban, a lot of recipes tell you to actually cut your butter up then put in the freezer for half an hour before rubbing it into the flour. I'm considering using olive oil actually.

I was responding to your "...but the crust was a bit hard." - the water in the butter might be affecting the texture of the pastry before the fat in the butter were able to blend and coat the flour. Flour + water = glue.

Pastry is distinguished from bread by having a higher fat content, which contributes to a flaky or crumbly texture. A good pastry is light and airy and fatty, but firm enough to support the weight of the filling. When making a shortcrust pastry, care must be taken to blend the fat and flour thoroughly before adding any liquid. This ensures that the flour granules are adequately coated with fat and less likely to develop gluten. Source: Wiki.

I would think using 100% olive oil would produce a less ideal pastry....

Fat choice is also important. Butter gives a good flavor but produces a less short texture than lard, which gives a flaky texture. Lard has a coarse crystal structure that coats the flour particles more effectively and is one hundred percent fat, unlike butter, which contains a little water. Some cooks consider a mixture of lard and butter to give the best balance of flavor and texture. Margarine and specially tailored vegetable fats are often substituted on grounds of cost, nutrition, or ethics. Oils give very crumbly pastry. Keeping pastry cool during working is also important, otherwise the fat becomes oily and the texture suffers Source: Answers.com

....a mixture of butter and olive oil or the fat rendered from the meat you are using?

Please let us know how your experiments progress and if you require tasters?

HTH

[mrtoad]

No Swedes or Turnips up here either Mr T, but I don't mind carrot in a pasty. You just have to cut it up fairly fine, or even grate it as it cooks slower than the other ingredients.

Yeah, that's why it so difficult to get a real proper Cornish Pasty, but you can still make good ones using different fillings. I'm a Cornish lad, so Pasties are one of my favourite things, but you can pretty much put what you like in them. I have to agree though, it is the pastry which is the most important.

My local bakery down in Cornwall, used to do a variety of different pasties away from the Traditional ones. Examples, Breakfast Pasty - (Bacon, Sausage, Egg and Baked Beans) Pork and Apple, Steak and Cheese, Jalfrazzi, Cheese and Onion, etc, etc

Now, I'm feeling homesick.

[suegha]

Go for the olive oil option and cook longer at a lower temp and problem should be solved. I have actually wondered what this might work with coconut oil!

ps even with the butter option cook for longer at a lower temp.

[wilko]

You can't beat a decent pasty

Cornish Pasty Ingredients -Recipe

For the Pastry ( This is for Shortcrust)

One and a half Cups Plain Flour

Lard or vegetable fat

Pinch of salt

Water

For the pasty filling

Chuck steak or skirt

Two Large potatoes

Half a large swede (turnip as second best)

One large onion

Salt and pepper to taste

Water

Cornwall Pastie Recipe Method

The Pastry

Place flour and salt in a bowl, rub in the fat, until the mixture is so fine that it falls through the fingers. Tip mixture onto a lightly floured table top. With your index finger make a well in the centre of the mixture. Add water a little at a time until it forms a pliable but stiff dough.

The Cornish Pasty Filling

Finely chop the steak. Dice the potato, swede and onion. You may prefer to slice them. Add seasoning. Mix all in a bowl or to be really authentic use your kitchen table top.

Using a floured table top roll out half the dough to a circle the size of a plate. Make a mound of the filling in the centre of the dough. Dampen round the edge of the dough with either water, or milk. Fold over the dough, to make a half moon shape, crimping the edges. Make a slit to let out steam. Brush with beaten egg to glaze.

Cooking your Cornish Pasty Place on lightly greased metal baking tray in the middle of a preheated oven, for around 40 minutes at 450 F . The pasty is cooked when their undersides turn brown and crisp.

OK - but in my books an Oggie should be made with minced LAMB and as much pepper as you like!

.... I can't imagine a Cornish miner's wife making one with filo pastry though!

[jayenram]

I just googled "Cornish pasties".

Are these prices for real??

http://www.cyber-web.co.uk/www/pastypeeps/merchandise.htm

[mrtoad]

I just googled "Cornish pasties".

Are these prices for real??

http://www.cyber-web.co.uk/www/pastypeeps/merchandise.htm

Looks a bit on the steep price to me. I used to pay around 2 quid, for the large steak pasty at my local. Although it's probably gone up a bit in the last 2 years.

Very good pastry and filling, and more than enough to eat. Oh, how I wish Philps would open up in Bangkok.

[mrtoad]

[quote name='wilko' date='2008-04-09 10:40:01' post='1917037'

OK - but in my books an Oggie should be made with minced LAMB and as much pepper as you like!

.... I can't imagine a Cornish miner's wife making one with filo pastry though!

Yeah, well you can put whatever you like in it really. There is certainly evidence that fish was often used in the Pasties years ago, and of course at the end would be filled with something sweet like apple, so in effect two meals.

Say no to filo pastry in pasties, got to make sure th past has a good thick pastry and crimp on it, so it wont break up.

As for Ginsters, crime against Pasties and should be banned from manufacturing them in Cornwall.

[wilko]

K - but in my books an Oggie should be made with minced LAMB and as much pepper as you like!

.... I can't imagine a Cornish miner's wife making one with filo pastry though!

Yeah, well you can put whatever you like in it really. There is certainly evidence that fish was often used in the Pasties years ago, and of course at the end would be filled with something sweet like apple, so in effect two meals.

Say no to filo pastry in pasties, got to make sure th past has a good thick pastry and crimp on it, so it wont break up.

As for Ginsters, crime against Pasties and should be banned from manufacturing them in Cornwall.

An

Yes...I wondered when the "history " would come up...there are a lot of very well informed articles that seriously throw doubt on the "@ filling" story....you hear it everywhere but it is really a self perpetuating, unchallenged story.

As for putting anything in...Well of course you can...but most cookery gets its flavour from its heritage. The pasty being a Cornish poor man's delicacy, it is very unlikely it would ever have had stake in it. Fish certainly or anything else a family living on the breadline could afford. Usually the ingredients reflect the social and cultural background of the origins. To "improve it tends also to lose it. In the process you may stumble upon something else that's nice but it is a step away from the original.

E.G. in London a steak (and kidney) pie would usually have a few oysters in it...which sounds very hi-so until you realise that in the 189th century it was dubbed the “poor man’s steak” ...much cheaper than beef it was used to “bulk out” the pies. Believe me if you haven’t had a steak pie with oysters, you haven’t lived.

as for Ginsters...they were taken over years back by Walkers pies, Leicester who promptly got rid of the "costly" process of hand-folding and finishing every pasty......as for the contents....well they're not a pasty so any discussion of them would be off-topic.

Ivor Dewdney oggie and beans would go down a treat right now! - from the Torpoint shop of course!

[mrtoad]

as for Ginsters...they were taken over years back by Walkers pies, Leicester who promptly got rid of the "costly" process of hand-folding and finishing every pasty......as for the contents....well they're not a pasty so any discussion of them would be off-topic.

Ivor Dewdney oggie and beans would go down a treat right now! - from the Torpoint shop of course!

Ginsters , all routes out of Callington should be closed to prevent tha muck from being spread around the country under the guise of a Past. Cheek Bar Stewards even have the cheek to put our flag on their products.

Good old Dewdney Pasties, always used to be good, but as you say have to be from the Torpoint shop and not any of the Plymouth branches.

Dewdney pasties always remind of going to watch Plymouth Argyle for some reason. Oh shit, I'm not going to admit that.

[sweetchariot]

As a Plymouthian it always surprised me that you had to cross the river to find a good pasty. The mass produced stuff in Dewdney's, Warran's and the like never really did it for me. I actually new Mr Warran quite well, and he was a nice bloke despite being a Pirates fan!

The best pasties would always come from small independent bakers. I found one in Looe and used to drive down there sometimes just to buy a dozen to put in the freezer! Also had a place in Tintagel that used to mail them to me.

I used to make my own from time to time, but using frozen shortcrust pastry the likes of which I have not seen here. Given my lack of success at making pastry at home I am even more likely to make a hash of it here when first choice ingredients aren't available.

I tried a Yorkies pasty the other day, and whilst it was nowhere near perfect it was actually quite nice - maybe I've been here too long??

[mrtoad]

As a Plymouthian it always surprised me that you had to cross the river to find a good pasty. The mass produced stuff in Dewdney's, Warran's and the like never really did it for me. I actually new Mr Warran quite well, and he was a nice bloke despite being a Pirates fan!

The best pasties would always come from small independent bakers. I found one in Looe and used to drive down there sometimes just to buy a dozen to put in the freezer! Also had a place in Tintagel that used to mail them to me.

I used to make my own from time to time, but using frozen shortcrust pastry the likes of which I have not seen here. Given my lack of success at making pastry at home I am even more likely to make a hash of it here when first choice ingredients aren't available.

I tried a Yorkies pasty the other day, and whilst it was nowhere near perfect it was actually quite nice - maybe I've been here too long??

Well, everyone has a cross to bear, ands I suppose supporting the Pirates is one of them.

I've always liked the Philps Pasties from down in Hayle. The Warrens, Rowes and Dewdney aren't bad at all, but there are some very good ones as you say in the small bakeries. In fact one of the Butchers shops in Hayle do an excellent pasty, can't remember the name now.

Those Yorkie ones are O.K. but nothing like the real thing.

How about some decent Saffron cake as well? Now that's what I call good stuff!!!

[wilko]

As a Plymouthian it always surprised me that you had to cross the river to find a good pasty. The mass produced stuff in Dewdney's, Warran's and the like never really did it for me. I actually new Mr Warran quite well, and he was a nice bloke despite being a Pirates fan!

The best pasties would always come from small independent bakers. I found one in Looe and used to drive down there sometimes just to buy a dozen to put in the freezer! Also had a place in Tintagel that used to mail them to me.

I used to make my own from time to time, but using frozen shortcrust pastry the likes of which I have not seen here. Given my lack of success at making pastry at home I am even more likely to make a hash of it here when first choice ingredients aren't available.

I tried a Yorkies pasty the other day, and whilst it was nowhere near perfect it was actually quite nice - maybe I've been here too long??

Well, everyone has a cross to bear, ands I suppose supporting the Pirates is one of them.

I've always liked the Philps Pasties from down in Hayle. The Warrens, Rowes and Dewdney aren't bad at all, but there are some very good ones as you say in the small bakeries. In fact one of the Butchers shops in Hayle do an excellent pasty, can't remember the name now.

Those Yorkie ones are O.K. but nothing like the real thing.

How about some decent Saffron cake as well? Now that's what I call good stuff!!!

Lardy cake!!!!!!!

[mrtoad]

As a Plymouthian it always surprised me that you had to cross the river to find a good pasty. The mass produced stuff in Dewdney's, Warran's and the like never really did it for me. I actually new Mr Warran quite well, and he was a nice bloke despite being a Pirates fan!

The best pasties would always come from small independent bakers. I found one in Looe and used to drive down there sometimes just to buy a dozen to put in the freezer! Also had a place in Tintagel that used to mail them to me.

I used to make my own from time to time, but using frozen shortcrust pastry the likes of which I have not seen here. Given my lack of success at making pastry at home I am even more likely to make a hash of it here when first choice ingredients aren't available.

I tried a Yorkies pasty the other day, and whilst it was nowhere near perfect it was actually quite nice - maybe I've been here too long??

Well, everyone has a cross to bear, ands I suppose supporting the Pirates is one of them.

I've always liked the Philps Pasties from down in Hayle. The Warrens, Rowes and Dewdney aren't bad at all, but there are some very good ones as you say in the small bakeries. In fact one of the Butchers shops in Hayle do an excellent pasty, can't remember the name now.

Those Yorkie ones are O.K. but nothing like the real thing.

How about some decent Saffron cake as well? Now that's what I call good stuff!!!

Lardy cake!!!!!!!

Lardy cake, don't you mean Heva? I'm eating some now, as well as a nice loaf of Saffron which is sitting nicely in the kitchen.

[suegha]

I just googled "Cornish pasties".

Are these prices for real??

http://www.cyber-web.co.uk/www/pastypeeps/merchandise.htm

Don't look very edible, do they?

[wilko]

As a Plymouthian it always surprised me that you had to cross the river to find a good pasty. The mass produced stuff in Dewdney's, Warran's and the like never really did it for me. I actually new Mr Warran quite well, and he was a nice bloke despite being a Pirates fan!

The best pasties would always come from small independent bakers. I found one in Looe and used to drive down there sometimes just to buy a dozen to put in the freezer! Also had a place in Tintagel that used to mail them to me.

I used to make my own from time to time, but using frozen shortcrust pastry the likes of which I have not seen here. Given my lack of success at making pastry at home I am even more likely to make a hash of it here when first choice ingredients aren't available.

I tried a Yorkies pasty the other day, and whilst it was nowhere near perfect it was actually quite nice - maybe I've been here too long??

Well, everyone has a cross to bear, ands I suppose supporting the Pirates is one of them.

I've always liked the Philps Pasties from down in Hayle. The Warrens, Rowes and Dewdney aren't bad at all, but there are some very good ones as you say in the small bakeries. In fact one of the Butchers shops in Hayle do an excellent pasty, can't remember the name now.

Those Yorkie ones are O.K. but nothing like the real thing.

How about some decent Saffron cake as well? Now that's what I call good stuff!!!

Lardy cake!!!!!!!

Lardy cake, don't you mean Heva? I'm eating some now, as well as a nice loaf of Saffron which is sitting nicely in the kitchen.

Heavy cake /lardy cake...we always called it "Lardy"

[cathyy]

I knew a lady who had great success with her pasties and she used suet she grated herself as the fat in her pastry. Michigan, particularly northern Michigan and the upper peninsula, is the home of the pasty in the US. I know a good pasty when I eat one. It must have rutabaga, aka swedes as an ingredient, and it doesn't need any gravy. If it needs gravy it isn't authentic.

You would have better luck using lard, if you can find it, than butter or olive oil if you don't want to use suet. A hard pastry might be the result of excessive handling, too. Pastry gets tough if you play with it much. Roll it once, and deal with how it turns out even if it's not pretty.

[suegha]

That's true cathy, don't overly handle the pastry - you're not making bread!

[Kenbarl]

Piggy Pies in koh phangan do excellent Pasties using swede. Supply Koh toa and samui aswell.

[sceadugenga]

I knew a lady who had great success with her pasties and she used suet she grated herself as the fat in her pastry. Michigan, particularly northern Michigan and the upper peninsula, is the home of the pasty in the US. I know a good pasty when I eat one. It must have rutabaga, aka swedes as an ingredient, and it doesn't need any gravy. If it needs gravy it isn't authentic.

You would have better luck using lard, if you can find it, than butter or olive oil if you don't want to use suet. A hard pastry might be the result of excessive handling, too. Pastry gets tough if you play with it much. Roll it once, and deal with how it turns out even if it's not pretty.

Thanks Cathy, never thought of that. It's probably what goes wrong with my dumplings as well, they sink like stones and stick to the bottom of the pan.

[cathyy]

Thanks Cathy, never thought of that. It's probably what goes wrong with my dumplings as well, they sink like stones and stick to the bottom of the pan.

I don't think I have ever met anybody who could make a decent dumpling. I fake mine -the big fluffy kind that float on top of the stew, not the small ones that cook submerged in the gravy and thicken it. I use Bisquick in the US, which combines flour, baking powder and shortening in the appropriate proportions for most baking. It makes the best pancakes, too. That's all I use it for, pancakes and dumplings. Everything else I can just make.

[thecatman]

I made some English style pasties the other day. They were a great success, the filling superb, but the crust was a bit hard.

In the past I always used frozen pastry sheets but can't get them up here so made my own, the standard mix... all purpose flour, salt, shortening and ice water. I used butter for the shortening which may have been the problem. Any ideas?

Use animal fat instead of butter for the 'real deal'. Also, one previous poster said to 'roll it once and deal with it how it turns out' well, while excessive handling will make the pastry tough, you can roll it more than just once without any damaging affects. (I made short crust pastry and pasties in a bakery for 20 years)

My ingredients were

Example:

5 lb flour

2.5 lb fat

5 oz milk powder

salt as desired

2.5 lb water (40 fluid ounces)

[suegha]

Wow, that's a lot of ingredients! Would it still work if we reduced everything to say 20%?

[steve w]

I just googled "Cornish pasties".

Are these prices for real??

http://www.cyber-web.co.uk/www/pastypeeps/merchandise.htm

jebus that website made my eyes go wonky!

just say NO to carrots in pasties ,where you from you heathen,Devon or somewhere else full of foreigners!

[steve w]

Thanks Cathy, never thought of that. It's probably what goes wrong with my dumplings as well, they sink like stones and stick to the bottom of the pan.

I don't think I have ever met anybody who could make a decent dumpling. I fake mine -the big fluffy kind that float on top of the stew, not the small ones that cook submerged in the gravy and thicken it. I use Bisquick in the US, which combines flour, baking powder and shortening in the appropriate proportions for most baking. It makes the best pancakes, too. That's all I use it for, pancakes and dumplings. Everything else I can just make.

dumplings are easy,1lb of s r flour half that quantity of minced suet ,mix into a dough with water and chuck in your stew,lovely!