Forum turned upside down?

[atomdocs]

Hi all. When I submitted a hotel receipt from Germany as a company expense, my accountant refused it because:

"In the Receipt that you submitted to us, the way the amount is written is not the same here in Thailand. They used the comma in the decimal point place."

The receipt states: "936,00 EUR", which I think is the system used in many European countries.

Has anyone else had problems with this? Should I insist that my accountant accept the receipt, or are they correct, that the receipt is inadmissable?

Thanks.

Tom

[toptuan]

I hate to say it, but this is a little power game played often by Thai* accountants--either to curry favor with their bosses ("look how much money I'm saving the company"), or to remind you, the "farang," that if you don't do it the Thai way then you're screwed.

I recently had a hotel receipt refused by one of our accountants because the Thai hotel did not issue me a receipt that had the word "RECEIPT" in ENGLISH on it! It had the name of the hotel (pre-printed on the document), the cost of accommodation, my name, the date, and a big red "PAID" stamped on it. I was a banker for five years, and I can recognize a receipt. If that's not a receipt, then the Pope is not a Catholic.

I went directly to my (Thai) boss and told him that if he wanted me to do any more traveling for our organization, that he better whip the sniveling accountant into line and stop accepting this bull$hit. His sheepish smile was tell-tale that he knew this was a game frequently played by our financial office, and then he even verbally confirmed it.

The refund came.

Don't cave in!

*P.S. Don't get me wrong. I love Thailand, but this is common bean-counter mentality you'll find in just about any organization where some small-time clerk/bureaucrat will occasionally try to flex their "powers" to make you miserable and elevate their own importance. 95% of the time they'll back down when you either 1) show a stern response directly to them or 2) have a heart-to-heart talk with their boss or yours. You'll only have to do it once--especially in Thailand where no one wants to lose face multiple times. You won't gain the clerk's friendship, but you will get a grudging respect. A small gift (souvenir from your trip, etc.) a couple weeks later will help restore the social balance if you desire to smooth things out.

Edited April 8, 2008 by toptuan

[singa-traz]

I hate to say it, but this is a little power game played often by Thai* accountants--either to curry favor with their bosses ("look how much money I'm saving the company"), or to remind you, the "farang," that if you don't do it the Thai way then you're screwed.

...

*P.S. Don't get me wrong. I love Thailand, but this is common bean-counter mentality you'll find in just about any organization where some small-time clerk/bureaucrat will occasionally try to flex their "powers" to make you miserable and elevate their own importance. 95% of the time they'll back down when you either 1) show a stern response directly to them or 2) have a heart-to-heart talk with their boss or yours. You'll only have to do it once--especially in Thailand where no one wants to lose face multiple times. You won't gain the clerk's friendship, but you will get a grudging respect. A small gift (souvenir from your trip, etc.) a couple weeks later will help restore the social balance if you desire to smooth things out.

Well, you may be reading too much into it.

I had the same type of problems, with people I knew well, and I was told that RD was making their life miserable too.

So, Yes this is annoying, but it may have nothing to do to with "power game" or "making your life miserable".

My accountants were a pain to deal with ... but they were good friends too.

[atomdocs]

Thanks chaps. I appreciate the scenarios you are describing. I am still learning not to be surprised by anything here, and after all, I am very happy to be living and working here. I should have mentioned in my original post - I am small outfit (essentially a freelancer) using external accountants, and I am trying to submit this receipt as part of my annual audit. So it probably isn't the situation that the accountant is trying to save money... I get the feeling that - as nice as they are - they are finding this little comma just too much to bother with when they are already stressed with getting everyones audits done. I will push my case, but I will try not to make anyone cry this time: I was horrified to find that I did manage to do that during a previous disagreement (when I took a typically western stand). I actually find this comma thing quite funny, when I ignore the fact that it is costing me about 12,000B.

It would still be good to hear if anyone has been able to submit a receipt in Euro style for their annual audit...

Thanks again.

[GuestHouse]

"In the Receipt that you submitted to us, the way the amount is written is not the same here in Thailand. They used the comma in the decimal point place."

Send it back on and office memo, copied to the head honcho, pointing out that the accountant's understandin is quite correct - the comma is exactly a decimal point - Now that this is clearly understood by all, please process the claim ASAP.

[LaoPo]

Hi all. When I submitted a hotel receipt from Germany as a company expense, my accountant refused it because:

"In the Receipt that you submitted to us, the way the amount is written is not the same here in Thailand. They used the comma in the decimal point place."

The receipt states: "936,00 EUR", which I think is the system used in many European countries.

Has anyone else had problems with this? Should I insist that my accountant accept the receipt, or are they correct, that the receipt is inadmissable?

Thanks.

Tom

Was this a -hand-written receipt or normal printed receipt as they do in most Western hotels ?

Also, nowadays, most people pay per CC, giving another prove of payment.

€936,00 is not something most people carry around paying their hotel bill with, apart from the fact that this amount is quite high, even for a hotel in Germany; depends on the number of nights of course.

NB:

If your declaration is correct, and I assume it is, there must be ways that you can prove:

1. the hotel exists; maybe provide a link to the taxman with hotelroom prices.

2. some kind of prove you actually staid there; passport stamps or other prove.

3. ask the hotel to write an official letter to you, in English, stating that you staid there from xxx until xxxx dates.

LaoPo

Edited April 8, 2008 by LaoPo

[lannarebirth]

If I were you, I would stand my ground with your accountant. As there are only two decimal places to the right of the comma/decimal point, it cannot be confused with the 000's use of the comma and can only be a decimal point replacement. Include a print out of some justifying documentation if you feel it's necessary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator

[cclub75]

Hi all. When I submitted a hotel receipt from Germany as a company expense, my accountant refused it because:

"In the Receipt that you submitted to us, the way the amount is written is not the same here in Thailand. They used the comma in the decimal point place."

The receipt states: "936,00 EUR", which I think is the system used in many European countries.

Has anyone else had problems with this? Should I insist that my accountant accept the receipt, or are they correct, that the receipt is inadmissable?

Thanks.

Tom

You understand -I hope- that what your "accountant" is telling you is totally and utterly bullshit ?

To the point that he is CRAP HIMSELF.

I mean : how do you think we do when we have.... invoices from european companies (for imports) ?

Hum ? Do we ask a mysterious "thai accounting department" to translate them... ? To change the point into comma, or vice et versa ?

He's a jerk. It's unbelievable.

And you should take a real pleasure to tell him. Make him loose face a little bit. They need it some time, so they can understand that they are nothing but monkeys. Good for thai ego.

Edited April 8, 2008 by cclub75

[LaoPo]

Maybe the 'accountant' and the 'taxman' have a bit of a problem here, accepting a Hotel-Bill of:

Thai Baht 46.491,426 which is € 936,00

OP: how many nights ?

LaoPo

[atomdocs]

That's a fair point LaoPo, but I don't think the authenticity of the receipt is being questioned by the accountant. The receipt is printed on hotel letterhead, with the hotel's tax details, my company name and address as the receiver, full cost breakdown and the dates of the stay (this is a German receipt, after all). I think, as also suggested, they are expecting grief from the Revenue office about the comma, and are trying to side-step it. I do realise that it is cr4p, and I will push the thing through, but sometimes here... you just never know what is in store for you. I will take the Wikipedia article with me - thanks - but from experience, I know that logic works differently here, even with evidence.

LaoPo: 26 nights @ 36 EUR in a provincial hotel I regularly use - they gave me their 'appartment' room w/ kitchen. Long, on-site job at my client. Passport stamps and plane ticket receipt also in evidence.

I am just putting it down to laziness by the accountant, which is disappointing as they are a large international firm. I will go into the office and have a word.

[LaoPo]

That's a fair point LaoPo, but I don't think the authenticity of the receipt is being questioned by the accountant. The receipt is printed on hotel letterhead, with the hotel's tax details, my company name and address as the receiver, full cost breakdown and the dates of the stay (this is a German receipt, after all). I think, as also suggested, they are expecting grief from the Revenue office about the comma, and are trying to side-step it. I do realise that it is cr4p, and I will push the thing through, but sometimes here... you just never know what is in store for you. I will take the Wikipedia article with me - thanks - but from experience, I know that logic works differently here, even with evidence.

LaoPo: 26 nights @ 36 EUR in a provincial hotel I regularly use - they gave me their 'appartment' room w/ kitchen. Long, on-site job at my client. Passport stamps and plane ticket receipt also in evidence.

I am just putting it down to laziness by the accountant, which is disappointing as they are a large international firm. I will go into the office and have a word.

of course...I know all about it, the Germans are 'Puenktlich'

But, you SHOULD push through and get your rights. It's unbelievable that they reject an official hotel Bill, printed on their own Hotel Letterhead.

Just make sure you get it your way or get another accountant.

Wish you luck.

Idea:

Go to Google Maps and have a site/street printed where the Hotel is; give them as much as possible evidence as you can get....and keep us posted...

LaoPo

[atomdocs]

Thanks LaoPo, will do. It is always interesting to travel between my organised German world and my relaxed Thai world.

[cclub75]

but from experience, I know that logic works differently here, even with evidence.

Sure. But sometimes, the pure western logic is indeed your best friend.

Since you said that the guy is working in a "large international firm" It's even more depressing.

Anyway, a receipt is nothing more than a supportive proof of a "writing" into the accounting system.

You have "932.00" printed on a piece of paper. Any normal accountant would put "932,00" (or any other approved norm) into the computer system. And a few months later, if the guy of RD are coming to verify the accounts, the printed "932.00" receipt will support the "932,00" etc.

Even after a few years, my blood is boiling to see how low thai people can go (by lazyness, lack of common sense, and/or just pure stupidity).

And most of the time, those are people with good "position". Even my gardener has more common sense than all those stupid thais with "degrees".