Key Money For Shophouse In Lamai

[ClaudeFeller]

Every where in the World, key money has a different meaning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_money

In Thailand, it is a gift, given as an inducement for the landlord to rent to you. Key money is illegal in Thailand only if you pay cash and the landlord doesn't report it as income, then you could be charged as an accessory to money laundering and tax evasion.

Most lawyers will advise against paying key money if it will be paid in cash and the landlord does not want it to be mentioned in the rental agreement.

Why does the landlord want his rent upfront? Reasons he will give…

1. Household tax is 12.5% on the rental amt for the year. By him getting this money as a gift no household tax will need to be paid on it. Many landlords will require you to pay the household tax, its part of the negotiations.

2. Thailand does not have a credit bureau like the West so they need extra protection if you leave the country.

In reality, for a prime space his logic is its valuable and he wants money upfront to invest in something else.

Be aware, in most all cases, you will not get your key money back if a fire takes place.

Also if the Landlord does not give you a receipt you cannot write it off. Let’s say you have a five million Baht Thai Limited Company, you are in the tax bracket of 30% of net profits. Your net profit was one million and your key money for that year was one million baht. You don’t have anyway to show the cash payment to the landlord so that deduction is disallowed. You will then pay 300,000 Baht in tax versus if you gotten a receipt, your tax payment would be zero.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Very good!

Keymoney is another try to get more cash money from Farangs then from Thais. If you have several rental opportunities you can easily avoid key money. The problem is that many farang are stupid enough to pay it because they still count in Dollars or Euros and not in Thai bahts - thus they are willing to pay...

[SamuiJens]

Very good!

Keymoney is another try to get more cash money from Farangs then from Thais. If you have several rental opportunities you can easily avoid key money. The problem is that many farang are stupid enough to pay it because they still count in Dollars or Euros and not in Thai bahts - thus they are willing to pay...

Still count in $ or €'s? When in Rome do as the Romans do=I always think in Bahts and NOT $ or € (when in Thailand of course!) DON'T really understand your comment, ClaudeFeller. BUT I'm sure you'll enlighten me?!

Edited April 20, 2008 by SamuiJens

[simey]

2 million, converted to any currency, is still a lot of cash (63500 US), especially when you won't see it again. And on top of that you have the rent, the tax for yourself, the salaries of the 4 Thai employees and tax, company tax, company accounts, it all means you need to make a lot of money selling tshirts to come out on top. Anytime I drink in a bar in Chaweng you find tourists talkiing about giving up the rat race and coming over here to open a shop or bar. In my opinion (and in fact my case) you either need a large chunk of backup cash to get started or you accept that there is very little money to be made here as a falang and make your money, paid in GBP, working in Europe, then just spend it in the bars and restaurants rather than giving it away in rent/lawyers bills/tax.

[SamuiJens]

2 million, converted to any currency, is still a lot of cash (63500 US), especially when you won't see it again. And on top of that you have the rent, the tax for yourself, the salaries of the 4 Thai employees and tax, company tax, company accounts, it all means you need to make a lot of money selling tshirts to come out on top. Anytime I drink in a bar in Chaweng you find tourists talkiing about giving up the rat race and coming over here to open a shop or bar. In my opinion (and in fact my case) you either need a large chunk of backup cash to get started or you accept that there is very little money to be made here as a falang and make your money, paid in GBP, working in Europe, then just spend it in the bars and restaurants rather than giving it away in rent/lawyers bills/tax.

YOU'RE SO RIGHT, simey, and I agree, that's how I do it, except I have my pension!

Edited April 20, 2008 by SamuiJens

[Mark Wolfe]

All very sage.

I think something very important here is the seasonal nature of tourist numbers. A person comes in November or in the middle of August and thinks the place is really going to support some sort of business venture. But of course much of the time, like now, it's like a ghost town. I love this time of year because of the lack of people, but for businesses it's tough.

I know of a beachfront restaurant that is on its fourth owner right now (in just over two years) and I can't imagine what the current owner must have been thinking. Aside from having to virtually live in a restaurant every day (and sleep in the loft above every night -- or rent another place to live), I never seen more than a customer or two (or none) in the place. I'd be pulling my hair out about now. I don't see how a few plates of pad thai and some beers can cover the costs.

AND you have that horrific key money hanging over your head.

On a similar note, I have a friend who was the owner of one of those microbars and although the glory days of those places ended a few years ago (when people were really making good money and people were more plentiful) he was more or less breaking even. Paying his rent, having some fun, etc...but when the time came to try to sell the place, there he was having to try to get the key money out of the next buyer (after scouring for someone interested). In the end he had to take less then he was asking due to several factors, mainly wanting to get the hel_l out of dodge with some jingle in his pockets.

If it hadn't been for the key money, he would have been able to have gotten out unscathed. As it was, trying to get back at least some of his key money ended up with him making a loss in the end.

The good thing is, however, it seems that regardless of the facts on the ground, there are always more foreigners with start in their eyes and deep pockets to come and have a go at a business in the sun.

Joeyb:

Thanks to the few who questioned its [the treaty] existence and the other facets of which you didn't believe either.

Did anyone ever post they they didn't believe this treaty existed? Did anyone ever post they there were elements they didn't believe?

Please do us a favor and put in the pull quotes for verification. I think people questioned whether the treaty covered what you think it does, but please show me where anyone said they didn't believe it existed. Thanks.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Very good!

Keymoney is another try to get more cash money from Farangs then from Thais. If you have several rental opportunities you can easily avoid key money. The problem is that many farang are stupid enough to pay it because they still count in Dollars or Euros and not in Thai bahts - thus they are willing to pay...

IMHO The Landlords that charge key money in most cases don't care what color your skin is. The key money price is the same for whomever.

Never hurts just to be 100% however to double check by having a Thai call first and see what the rental price is. But in most all cases you will find key money is not strictly a farang thing, its greed of the landlord and the attitude they have of getting the money from whoever has it.

Funny story the other day, I'm looking at a shell property in a prime A++ location and the landlord quotes me 240,000 Baht a month if I would build a bar, 200,000 Baht a month if it would build a restaurant and only 160,000 Baht a month if I build a hotel. Why the difference in price? He stated" Bars are against my religion and a hotel I already own one on upper Sukhumvit. If you build a hotel I will just take over the building when the lease is over as I know the hotel business." So told him we are looking at a minimum 20 year lease registered at the Land Dept. He’s still not interested as “that’s too long." He wants a lease of three years plus an option of additional three years.

All I can say he seems to be honest about his intentions.

You just can't get upset about the Landlords and just decide before you start you need to look at 20-30 locations. I can't begin to tell you how many go by the wayside ( a million different reasons.)

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[ClaudeFeller]

The whole "Land for lease" and keymoney is a very dangerous thing. If "Land for Lease" you definetly need the LEGAL right to get a second follow-up lease for a fixed price and to have the LEGAL right to sub-lease the actual and the follow-up lease for whatever the reason is.

Good example is the Ark Bar in Chaweng - they have invested a lot of money, they made a super location out of nothing, now the contract is finished soon and the Thai Landlord will overtake the running busines - for free. Give him one year to ruin the location. Crazy!!

The keymoney is burnt money. 2 millions THB is just ridicolous if you consider the costs for a shophouse at maybe 1 million THB. If your rental contract is 10.000 THB for 3 years and 2 mill THB keymoney on top your real rental is about 67.000 THB per month (even more because you must prefinance the keymoney). Crazy!! How many beers or T-Shirts or whatever have to be sold every day to cover just these running costs?

[Mark Wolfe]

The reason that The Rising Sun restaurant in Lamai, a fixure for 13 years, was closed was that the landlord decided to put up the rent to an unreasonable level so as to force the foreign tenant out. It worked.

Even if there was some paperwork "ensuring" that the property would be available for more than a year or two, what landlord would agree to some form of rent control? Seems that the landlord can basically slime in underneath you at will.

You bake the bread, they want to eat it free.

Surely this doesn't happen all the time, but the fact that it CAN happen gives me pause.

[joeyb]

Joeyb:

Thanks to the few who questioned its [the treaty] existence and the other facets of which you didn't believe either.

Did anyone ever post they they didn't believe this treaty existed? Did anyone ever post they there were elements they didn't believe?

Please do us a favor and put in the pull quotes for verification. I think people questioned whether the treaty covered what you think it does, but please show me where anyone said they didn't believe it existed. Thanks.

Mark W, most people when proven wrong on an open forum do the same thing as you;deny,deny,deny. Can't you just accept the fact that you were wrong? No. OK then, here goes.

On post #22 you said,

I don't know what this means; I am pretty sure that company ownership in Thailand is not different for one nationality over another (excluding Thais). If you have a link to a site that confirms this, I'm all ears (or eyes). I don't believe that just because you are an American you can have what no other nationality can get.

That has been proven wrong.

ON post #42 you said,

(By the way, the Treaty of Amity has everything to do with established American companies setting up shop in Thailand and nothing to do with Americans coming to start a fresh business in Thailand.)

That has been proven wrong.

On post #46 you said,

Please answer me this: Is my above pull quote from my previous post true or false? If it is true and you are setting up a new business, I don't see how the treaty applies to you.

That also has been proven wrong.

So to recap, you Mark W. ARE and WERE WRONG. The Amity Treaty does give Americans an advantage to doing business in Thailand and you do not have to do anything prior to setting up in Thailnad. These are all NOW indisputable facts which you originally disputed. The net result of which is - you were wrong.

[joeyb]

I think something very important here is the seasonal nature of tourist numbers. A person comes in November or in the middle of August and thinks the place is really going to support some sort of business venture. But of course much of the time, like now, it's like a ghost town. I love this time of year because of the lack of people, but for businesses it's tough.

Has the number of tourists dropped significantly in the last 3 weeks?? I was just there and there was definately a good number then. At least, enough for me to come away very satisfied from a marketing research perspective. I saw many tourists up and down beach road and also at the night market each night. The bars seemed to be as full as I'd seen last year.

I've been to Samui 3 times. Last March, last Aug/Sept and just got back 3 weeks ago. I thought March/April was considered the end (but still part of) high season. I came away very positive about the numbers of people I saw in respect to the kind of shop I want to open. For one week, I did nothing aside from going to different location and observing the flow of potential customers. If this is the low season or at least a very low part of "high" season, then I feel VERY REASSURED!!

I know there are busier times of the year with more tourist numbers, but IMHO Lamai seems to have enough tourists to support a well planned, well run, well thought out, relevant business.

Because some businesses fail is not necassarily a bad thing. The market can only support so much. At some point it reaches a saturation point. At this point, it is the customers who by "voting with their money" decide who fails and who succeeds. How many T-Shirt shops selling the exact same thing as the shops 15 meters away (and in Chaweng, Pattaya, BKK,etc..) can Lamai support? How many tailors? If some go out of business it's the nature of the "business food chain". Actually like Darwinism. The market can only support so much (ie, there's only so much food the feed all the hungry mouths). Some businesses live while others die.

Now the whole element of key money adds a unique dimension to this struggle. Working tirelessly to make a business thrive only to be "forced" out by rediculous sums of KM is hardly encouraging.

[jocwaoh]

This has changed now in Bangkok with the Labor Dept since Feb. No matter if you are Amity treaty registered or non amity treaty registered Thai limited company, Thai limited partnership or sole proprietorship , the requirements are the same. Four Thai employees are required to get a work permit. One exception, the applicant is a sole proprietorship or working for a sole proprietorship and also married to a Thai, than it is 2 Thai employees.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Sorry Sunbelt but this is NOT correct. Thai there is still NO need for 4 Thai employees for the non-Thai(s) to get a work permit. The 4 Thais remain a requirement only for the extension the visa to a "long-term/1 year" visa. The only significant change made by the 22 February 08 amendments to the Alien Work Act is the allowance for work permits to be good for 2 years instead of just 1.

[Sunbelt Asia]

.

Now the whole element of key money adds a unique dimension to this struggle. Working tirelessly to make a business thrive only to be "forced" out by rediculous sums of KM is hardly encouraging.

Key money is not necessary a bad thing as long as you have your eyes open for the future. Realise the risks and rewards. Have your lawyer draw up a contract spelling out what the maximum rent increase with key money can be charged in 3 years and for an additional 3 years. Under the Civil commercial Code that’s the maximum number of option extensions an entity can have is two extensions. However you can put in the contract that another entity will be entitled to the lease in year 9-12 and permission has been granted by the landlord.

Make sure your contract does not simply have option to renew. Under the Civil Commercial Code both parties ( Landlord and tenant) have the option to renew unless its spelled out that that legal right of the landlord has already been granted to the tenant for the renewal. In this case, only the tenant has the right to decide every three years.

The best option is to register the lease with the Land Dept. It can be up to 30 years. If it’s a tax issue… tell the Landlord you will pay the tax for the registration.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sorry Sunbelt but this is NOT correct. Thai there is still NO need for 4 Thai employees for the non-Thai(s) to get a work permit. The 4 Thais remain a requirement only for the extension the visa to a "long-term/1 year" visa. The only significant change made by the 22 February 08 amendments to the Alien Work Act is the allowance for work permits to be good for 2 years instead of just 1.

Never thought I would be the one that would be on the side of the fence saying you need 4 Thai employees to get a work permit. Go back in the archives, if I didn't say it over 1,000 times I would be very surprised the last six years..."no Thai employees are required to get a work permit." A number of posts I even remember writing" please put it on my tombstone, no Thai employees are required to get a work permit"

But department heads do change and how the labor dept interprets the regulations. Since Feb 2008, in Bangkok they now want to see 4 Thai employees for every work permit application. So I guess my tombstone can no longer say" No Thai employees are required for a work permit" This could change in the future but as of today this is the way it is in Bangkok with the Labor Dept, you need to show the social fund filings for your Thai employees or a very good letter explaining when in the next month you will be hiring them.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[ClaudeFeller]

Would be a nice poll for the farang managing directors with a PROPER work permit:

1. Who has 4 thai employees?

2. Who has no Thai employees?

[Khun Jean]

I think something very important here is the seasonal nature of tourist numbers. A person comes in November or in the middle of August and thinks the place is really going to support some sort of business venture. But of course much of the time, like now, it's like a ghost town. I love this time of year because of the lack of people, but for businesses it's tough.

Joeyb,

Trust me on this one. Lamai is completely dead for at least 7 months a year. Busy in only 2 maybe 3 and ok in the rest.

Another problem is the ratio between number of 'beds' and the number of shops (bars/restaurants etc.). There are too many shops to be able to live of the tourists. 100% occupancy is great for hotels, guesthouses and resorts, but still it is not enough to feed all the owners of the shops.

Tourism drops to almost 0 in the off season months. You only have a few people that actually live there. Having Thais as customers is the best, they are there all the time.

Because some businesses fail is not necassarily a bad thing. The market can only support so much. At some point it reaches a saturation point. At this point, it is the customers who by "voting with their money" decide who fails and who succeeds. How many T-Shirt shops selling the exact same thing as the shops 15 meters away (and in Chaweng, Pattaya, BKK,etc..) can Lamai support? How many tailors? If some go out of business it's the nature of the "business food chain". Actually like Darwinism. The market can only support so much (ie, there's only so much food the feed all the hungry mouths). Some businesses live while others die.

Now the whole element of key money adds a unique dimension to this struggle. Working tirelessly to make a business thrive only to be "forced" out by rediculous sums of KM is hardly encouraging.

It is not that some businesses fail, it is more MOST businesses fail. That is why you get the warnings. What you see is the copy cat culture. It works OK in Bangkok where you have loads of people all year long. I know a street with at least 10 barber shops, 3 7-11's a family mart and a 108. They are all busy. Lamai is different, very different.

Onother thing to consider is that you will not be able to build a base of customers! As most people are tourists for only a few days and probably never return you have to cater for the one time only visitor. Getting in some guides is a must. Lonely planet for instance can make and break businesses.

Don't know the product, but i think you will need a very good location to pull it off. And unfortunately that will mean keymoney.

If the product is right you will sell, and large amounts if you are in the exact right location. Anything a few meters off the very very beaten track and your income will go down 90%.

Tourists are like clones, they do exactly the same thing over and over again. When it means going to The Islander, they all go. Not because it is great but because it is in the guide book, and they say it is great. The bar next to it is empty, but has much better food, music and better prices. Expats know that, tourists have no idea.

For getting these 'insights' and therefore a better judgement about locations and possible products you HAVE TO be there at least 1 year to observe the differences between seasons and the particular behaviour of tourists.

I would suggest trying it out in a less than optimal location (because of the high keymoney and rent) and get a feel before you 'strike'. You will have time to observe and scout for good locations. Make it part of the starting process.

If you have money to sit out a low season and can support yourself with other financial means then go for the best location.

But how will you know the best location when you were not there to see it. Prices alone will not tell you that, and people who rent out or sell you something will tell you exactly what you want to hear, yes even if it is not true.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Would be a nice poll for the farang managing directors with a PROPER work permit:

1. Who has 4 thai employees?

2. Who has no Thai employees?

We have easily over 500 clients whose MDs are foreigners and have a work permit and don't have 4 Thai employees. When they applied it was not required. Times change... and if you have been in Thailand a long time, you know they also change back. But today is only today.

On the other hand we have also hundreds of foreign MD's that have many Thai employees. For some it means nothing on the new change except providing the extra paperwork. For other applicants it does mean a lot to hire more people than they even need to have working.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Nirvana]

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

pls pm me with your name and contact data

thanks

[jocwaoh]

Sorry Sunbelt but this is NOT correct. Thai there is still NO need for 4 Thai employees for the non-Thai(s) to get a work permit. The 4 Thais remain a requirement only for the extension the visa to a "long-term/1 year" visa. The only significant change made by the 22 February 08 amendments to the Alien Work Act is the allowance for work permits to be good for 2 years instead of just 1.

Never thought I would be the one that would be on the side of the fence saying you need 4 Thai employees to get a work permit. Go back in the archives, if I didn't say it over 1,000 times I would be very surprised the last six years..."no Thai employees are required to get a work permit." A number of posts I even remember writing" please put it on my tombstone, no Thai employees are required to get a work permit"

But department heads do change and how the labor dept interprets the regulations. Since Feb 2008, in Bangkok they now want to see 4 Thai employees for every work permit application. So I guess my tombstone can no longer say" No Thai employees are required for a work permit" This could change in the future but as of today this is the way it is in Bangkok with the Labor Dept, you need to show the social fund filings for your Thai employees or a very good letter explaining when in the next month you will be hiring them.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Once agian this is simply incorrect information. If you are correct, back it up...show us the law or regulation that now requires 4 Thais for a work permit...you will not be able to. There is absolutely nothing in any current Thai law (most specifically, the Alien Labor Act, that requires four Thais for a WP in a Thai limited company).

IF, on the other hand, you simply telling us a story of another government office in Thailand temporarly abusing its discretion by requiring this [and I say "abuse" because there is NO basis in the law for such "interpretation" NOTHING about number of Thais being required for WP in a Thai Ltd. Co]...THAT I can believe but its hardly basis for saying "times have changed" such that this asserted regulatory abuse has the force of law. In any event, IF you are correct and the labor department in all of BKK is requiring this of ALL Thai ltd co. for all WPs (which I have serious doubts is the case) then there are ways around said department head...simplest would be to change the company's address to a district where the department head follows the law or wait for the BKK office to come around to doing so OR take them to administrative court.

[ClaudeFeller]

Interesting!

Seems that most of us have a completly ignorant lawyer/accounter (I dont mean Sunbelt, I mean the Thais here on Samui).

My accounting idiot also could not explain clearly the need for Thai stuff and how many. All I know is that there is a link between legal status (married or not), the taxable income and the Visa regulation. Means: Married with a Thai, pay income tax for 40.000 THB income and get a one-year-visa.

How knows more?

//Edit: deleted quote of deleted post - Maestro

Edited April 27, 2008 by Maestro

[Pilchard]

OR take them to administrative court.

And then we could report all the taxi drivers to the consumer rights people !

[Mark Wolfe]

For getting these 'insights' and therefore a better judgement about locations and possible products you HAVE TO be there at least 1 year to observe the differences between seasons and the particular behaviour of tourists.

If Joey thinks that currently there are plenty of tourist numbers to support whatever he's thinking about, great.

(...Oh and hat's off to Joey for fetching the stick and putting in the pull quotes. Not to belabor the point, but I didn't say I didn't believe in the existence of the treaty, just that I didn't believe that it covered what he thought. Perhaps my vocabulary fooled him; I should have said, "I didn't think." Nevertheless, the treaty does appear to give the Yanks something that others don't have access too, so I was wrong on that. I stand corrected.)

Aside from the OP's observations, I might add that for the last week I have been drifting over to the little Thai food shack next to the Bikini Bar on the beach -- it's where the Thais, mostly bargirls, go for a meal (just like home!) and where the Thais often go to hang out on the beach on their mats. Lately, it has been really like another place since during lunch and after there are either no foreigners or one or two, but the beach has been reclaimed by the locals. It's almost as if they have come out now that the coast is clear and are enjoying their beach.

The funny thing is (hang on, I should say, The interesting thing is) that all of the shopkeepers I talk to -- most know me on sight -- say that it's really slow, but that it's better in Chaweng.

So I went over to Chaweng the last two nights to see just how busy it was, and the fact is that it is busier over there, but not exactly hopping.

Here is one thing to add: A friend about three years ago said that he spoke with the guy who was the owner of the Mexican restaurant in Chaweng and he swore that if you had ANY interest in starting a business, it had to be in Chaweng. Reason? There's simply more traffic there at all times. Unless I had some compelling other reason to be in Lamai, I'd have to go for Chaweng. I mean, it's business, right? You go where the people are.

I'm still curious why Lamai? Indeed, why Samui at all? Just curious.

[SamuiJens]

For getting these 'insights' and therefore a better judgement about locations and possible products you HAVE TO be there at least 1 year to observe the differences between seasons and the particular behaviour of tourists.

If Joey thinks that currently there are plenty of tourist numbers to support whatever he's thinking about, great.

(...Oh and hat's off to Joey for fetching the stick and putting in the pull quotes. Not to belabor the point, but I didn't say I didn't believe in the existence of the treaty, just that I didn't believe that it covered what he thought. Perhaps my vocabulary fooled him; I should have said, "I didn't think." Nevertheless, the treaty does appear to give the Yanks something that others don't have access too, so I was wrong on that. I stand corrected.)

Aside from the OP's observations, I might add that for the last week I have been drifting over to the little Thai food shack next to the Bikini Bar on the beach -- it's where the Thais, mostly bargirls, go for a meal (just like home!) and where the Thais often go to hang out on the beach on their mats. Lately, it has been really like another place since during lunch and after there are either no foreigners or one or two, but the beach has been reclaimed by the locals. It's almost as if they have come out now that the coast is clear and are enjoying their beach.

The funny thing is (hang on, I should say, The interesting thing is) that all of the shopkeepers I talk to -- most know me on sight -- say that it's really slow, but that it's better in Chaweng.

So I went over to Chaweng the last two nights to see just how busy it was, and the fact is that it is busier over there, but not exactly hopping.

Here is one thing to add: A friend about three years ago said that he spoke with the guy who was the owner of the Mexican restaurant in Chaweng and he swore that if you had ANY interest in starting a business, it had to be in Chaweng. Reason? There's simply more traffic there at all times. Unless I had some compelling other reason to be in Lamai, I'd have to go for Chaweng. I mean, it's business, right? You go where the people are.

I'm still curious why Lamai? Indeed, why Samui at all? Just curious.

Maybe Joey likes that area of Samui, big deal, but for business, Chaweng would be the best.

[joeyb]

For getting these 'insights' and therefore a better judgement about locations and possible products you HAVE TO be there at least 1 year to observe the differences between seasons and the particular behaviour of tourists.

If Joey thinks that currently there are plenty of tourist numbers to support whatever he's thinking about, great.

(...Oh and hat's off to Joey for fetching the stick and putting in the pull quotes. Not to belabor the point, but I didn't say I didn't believe in the existence of the treaty, just that I didn't believe that it covered what he thought. Perhaps my vocabulary fooled him; I should have said, "I didn't think." Nevertheless, the treaty does appear to give the Yanks something that others don't have access too, so I was wrong on that. I stand corrected.)

Aside from the OP's observations, I might add that for the last week I have been drifting over to the little Thai food shack next to the Bikini Bar on the beach -- it's where the Thais, mostly bargirls, go for a meal (just like home!) and where the Thais often go to hang out on the beach on their mats. Lately, it has been really like another place since during lunch and after there are either no foreigners or one or two, but the beach has been reclaimed by the locals. It's almost as if they have come out now that the coast is clear and are enjoying their beach.

The funny thing is (hang on, I should say, The interesting thing is) that all of the shopkeepers I talk to -- most know me on sight -- say that it's really slow, but that it's better in Chaweng.

So I went over to Chaweng the last two nights to see just how busy it was, and the fact is that it is busier over there, but not exactly hopping.

Here is one thing to add: A friend about three years ago said that he spoke with the guy who was the owner of the Mexican restaurant in Chaweng and he swore that if you had ANY interest in starting a business, it had to be in Chaweng. Reason? There's simply more traffic there at all times. Unless I had some compelling other reason to be in Lamai, I'd have to go for Chaweng. I mean, it's business, right? You go where the people are.

I'm still curious why Lamai? Indeed, why Samui at all? Just curious.

Mark, all valid points indeed. I very well may decide on Chaweng over Lamai due to the obvious increase in tourists. In fact, from the start I entertained the idea of starting up in two locations. Aside from the obvious (rent, labor, utilities,etc..), it wouldn't involve too much more in the way of start-up money. One will be on Samui for sure. I had thought of Pattaya as the second location just for shear volume of tourist money. But, maybe Phuket.

To finally answer the question of "Why Samui??" It is because I have fallen deeply in love with a bar girl from Lamai!! She loves me too and says I "complete her"!! LOL !! Take a deep breath Mark (and others) I'm only joking!!

Seriously though, it's because I fell in love with the place last year on my first visit. I've always wanted to live someplace tropical and preferably on an island. Last year I had time to visit one island on my vacation to Japan, Thailand, and Cambodia. After a lot of internet research I chose Samui. And I chose Lamai over Chaweng because I wanted less people and more R&R. I live in the heart of America. Literally. I am a 24 hr non-stop drive from Mexico/Canada and both coasts. I have always dreamed about living on a tropical island. While I was in Thailand I noticed several business opportunities and began to think about moving to Thailand and starting up my own business.

Had I gone somewhere else maybe things would have turned out differently. I know for sure if I had gone to Pattaya on my first trip it would have. While I think Pattaya is a viable business opportunity for me, I could never live there as I think it is one of the most over-developed beaches in he world. It amazes me to see all the families from Europe and Scandinavia walking around Pattaya. It is maybe the least family orrientated beach in the world!

Had I gone someplace in the Carribean maybe I would be logging on to a different board now.

[joeyb]

Jens, maybe you are right. Maybe I'll live in Lamai, and open up shop in Chaweng.

[SamuiJens]

It's NOT that far, go for it! BUT, I think Mr. Wolfe lives there too.LOL-can you handle that? LOL

Edited April 22, 2008 by SamuiJens

[ClaudeFeller]

Jens, maybe you are right. Maybe I'll live in Lamai, and open up shop in Chaweng.

Your business will be open / keep you busy 60-70 hours a week. Shop and bedroom should be close together.

[ozzydom]

Off Topic post removed

[cass50]

Joeyb Can I suggest that you take a look at www.samuiforsale.com . It covers many aspects of the"legalities" for foreigners doing business, land ownership, visas etc. in Thailand. It seems that in most cases the author has "literally" translated various Thai laws and applied a narrow interpretation, which highlights the urgent need for legal reform in those many areas, to reflect the way in which the country has changed. For example, it states that for most foreigners, freehold land ownership in Thailand is illegal...ergo, so is any "vehicle" i.e. a holding company which supports it (which affects nearly all "foreign freehold land/property owners"). However, the government land offices are more than happy to register land/house holding companies on title deeds where the 51% Thai shareholders have "waived" their voting rights and lawyers are, again, more than happy to be paid to set these companies up...all of which is fundimentally in breach of the written law. Its no wonder most foreign people living here get confused over the legal "cans and can'ts". Hence what only seems to make complete sense for foreigners living here is the paradoxical expression for life in Thailand..."Same same...but different";.....Good luck with your business venture.

Edited April 23, 2008 by cass50

[BigC]

i hardly ever have got my deposit back over. here. b4 i was renting somewhere for 30 k p/m it was 30 k deposit. which i was supposed to get back when i checked out. but when i checked out they told me they wanted 1 months notice or i lose the 30 k plus they tried to get me pay for electric interent and water on top.

checky gits

[SamuiJens]

Jens, maybe you are right. Maybe I'll live in Lamai, and open up shop in Chaweng.

Your business will be open / keep you busy 60-70 hours a week. Shop and bedroom should be close together.

ClaudeFeller, you got 2 houses, 1 in Nathon and one in Ban Rak, so why can't Joeyb also have a couple??????