My Ex (or Not)

[Ijustwannateach]

I re-enter this story with a bit of trepidation, because my recent relationship with O. has not been good and reliving some of the memories will be painful.

I believe I left off with the story when O. had just half-admitted he had been a little bad, and we were talking at the coffee shop, heavily mosquito-bitten.

I was horny and vulnerable, and I really, really wanted to believe in O. The months I had been away from him had not been rewarding. My few contacts with decent guys had not been interesting enough to follow up, and I think I was still hung up on O. anyway. And here he *was* apparently meeting my request: to have a real job, to give up any sources of "mystery money," and to admit his past mistakes. Plus, he had been really, really earnest and sweet for months and months trying to get my attention, to apologise, and to let me know he wanted to be back with me.

I didn't entirely believe his story about the money- though I could certainly see him being involved in some bad business- but he showed me a bank book of his previously show large balances moving in and out of his account within the same hour. Some sort of money laundering or gambling transfers, apparently, for which he made a small percentage.

"Cutie, I went back home to see my Mom, and I decided to go into the temple- but they would not let me. The monks said my heart was not free. I started drinking, drinking a lot. I think I got drunk every day for a month. Then I went back to Bangkok and I met my old boss and he saw how bad I was. I asked for him to let me out of my job, and he agreed. So now I stopped drinking and I decided to get a job. I just wanted to tell you this."

Of course, I was rejoicing internally. It seemed like he had done all the things I had hoped, and was truly trying to reform himself. I still wanted to take things slowly, though.

"I hope you know, O., that I don't know if we can ever be boyfriends again. I think it will take a long time for me to learn to trust you, and you cannot make a big mistake in that time. Of course I miss you very much and I hope we can be friends, but I can't promise anything more."

Does it surprise anyone that 60 minutes later we were in bed together again?

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

Not at all...

Lust is a very powerful force.. !

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

O.'s new job was the "movie guy" for one of the cheap VCD/DVD/CD outlets along the BTS. His shop was in a pretty fashionable area, and there was a certain amount of "cool" cachet to the work, so in that respect it was a job well-suited for him. He was also able to speak English, which increased the sales potential for the shop. Unfortunately, he and his boss didn't get along at all.

"He tries to control everything. He even told us we shouldn't smile. And when I dropped a CD, just one time, he made me buy it out of my salary! Everyone hates him. Plus his music stinks."

I had finally been able to do what I asked a long time before: I could go to O.'s place of business and see him working there, any time of the day I had enough free time. The mystery of O.'s carefree existence seemed resolved, for the moment. No more idle hands for the devil.

The scheduling became a bit of a problem. O.'s job was an 11-11 kind of job, while mine was a 7-4 kind of job. When O. got off work, I was ready to go to bed, and he was still wanting to have some fun before sleeping (late).

O. also realised pretty quickly that his job took a LOT of his time. There were only 3 days off a month (usually not on weekends)- it was only once in 2-3 months that we had a full day off together. He wasn't exercising enough, and was beginning to develop a pouty little tummy- not unattractive, but a concern for both of us.

O. began also to succumb to the peer pressure of work. Nearly all of his coworkers were "cool" straight types, and he quickly realised that my presence as his friend was suspect. So after the first few weeks, I was no longer allowed to visit him at the shop (except in cognito, as a passerby) and I fear I was made to be the butt of jokes about the "katoey farang friend" which O. was forced to take part in.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Not at all... 

Lust is a very powerful force.. !

ChrisP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I can feel the pull of "the ring" even now when I've resolved to make an end of it...

[Ijustwannateach]

'O' And Violence

I suppose it bears mentioning that my ex, O., is not exactly the limp-wristed type. Of course, that goes along with his constant passing for straight in daily life. However, I was unprepared for the whole younger-man-testosterone-induced violent-behavior thing until I started dating him. Perhaps I was simply luckier with my other partners.

'O' had had a fairly violent upbringing, including some abuse by older family members.

In high school, O. had trained for several years as a Muay Thai boxer, and won some local matches in Isaan. He actually dropped out of high school for about a year to pursue a career. It was only when his mother made him promise not to participate anymore (because she was afraid he would get hurt) that he stopped.

'O's friends in Bangkok could loosely be described as belonging to a gang, especially when he was in his 'bookie' phase (before I broke up with him the first time). When this gang had troubles with other people, O. was expected to help out, and they of course were obligated to reciprocate. Being rather unreflective young men, they also frequently fought amongst themselves; liberal application of alcohol did not help this trend. Although he had basic reason not to introduce me (at the risk of outing himself), O. also admitted to me that they tended to behave antisocially in public and that I would not enjoy their company.

O. himself was filled with repressed anger, some of which we worked through in the course of our relationship. However, a lot of the time it worked itself out violently. To his credit, he usually let it out when there was some semi-constructive reason- for example, when a former girlfriend (!) was being abused by her current boyfriend, he went to pay them a visit.

Me: "What did you do?"

Him: "Maybe he can't walk so well for awhile."

O. was not afraid, as a result, of confrontation. A foreign man made the mistake of swearing at him in public for his "Anyone But Bush" election T-shirt; O. practically chased him down the street yelling back obscenities at him. A Thai busybody (a teacher, apparently) scolded him in a bookstore for reading a magazine about computer games; O. engaged him in a heated, sarcastic debate in front of a delighted group of customers.

Most recently, on Halloween, O. went to a concert on Khao San Road. Though this event has not yet been reported in Thai news to my knowledge, at 11 pm that night the police came (illegally, as far as I know) and tried to close down the concert and disperse the crowd. Not inclined to be dispersed, the crowd stayed- in response to which the police started attacking them with gas. One very young man was asphyxiated to death, and the crowd reacted badly. Soon things were in a state of all-out street brawl, and O. found himself in a fist fight with one of the police briefly before being knocked down.

He is not particularly big, but he has pretty good muscle development for his size and he is fast. When we wrestle, I easily win and incapacitate him; but if he were fighting me seriously and from a distance I doubt my ability to catch him before he wears me down.

On occasion I have had to try to get him to control his anger, especially on my behalf. Though we are not on terribly good terms now, I still feel that if I ever had any serious problems in Thailand that 20 young hoodlums could fix, that I might find such an "angel" on my side whether I wanted it or no.

"Steven"

[Hollywood]

:: Prostitution(or whatever)...deceit....lying...cheating...now violence!!! this is getting sick ....with all the great young men available....I'm outa here....

" I hit myself in the head with a hammer ,and it feels so good when I stop"

[Ijustwannateach]

Don't let the door slam you on the bum, etc., etc....

[Ijustwannateach]

^^The above reply probably deliberately misunderstands the situation, but it may be an actual misunderstanding on the part of some on this forum, so I think I should re-iterate:

THIS STORY IS A RETROSPECTIVE. It is NOT, in the main, happening right now, unless I note otherwise. Much of what I summarise as matters of fact NOW came from dribs, drabs, detective work, deduction, and small and large slip-ups on O.'s part verbally (and he knows that I am no greenhorn, and has learned to be very careful around me).

Those who have been following from the beginning will recall that there is nothing to do with prostitution in this story (on my part, anyway) and that I was introduced to O. with the most sterling possible credentials: both farang and Thai-Chinese friends vouched for him at a dinner where I first met him.

It bears mentioning that the large number of persons in Bangkok who are, to put it kindly, pseudo-employed in a variety of grey- or black-market businesses are only too aware that they are engaged in dodgy affairs of various sorts. It is not a common self-introduction for them to come up to one and say, "Hello, I'm O., and I'm a bookie for a sports gambling consortium." If they did so, they would hardly be intelligent enough to have that sort of job in the first place, and this sort of story would never need to be written, as I certainly would have had nothing to do with him.

Thais have a number of communication advantages over us, and one who is determined to fool us is quite likely to get away with it. I will not try to re-ignite the discussion of whether Thais in general have a tendency to be liberal with the truth, but I can say for a certainty that this one I knew did. Add in that we were both genuinely in love with each other for some time (and love is blind), and it is hardly amazing that I was fooled for so long.

What did my friends think, and were they fooled? What an excellent suggestion for my next installment.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

There were two schools of thought among my friends regarding O.

The first could see that he and I were pretty well smitten with each other, and that the feelings were genuine enough. There were some concerns over his background and history, but as he came with good recommendations people were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. One friend told me, "Thais tend to become mature when they're 27 or 30 or so, so if you can keep him at least semi-stable until then you'll be fine."

As time passed this group became more cynical about O. (as did I) but were too polite to say anything directly about it. It seems that age and experience create this reluctance to give direct advice in people, probably for good reason.

Another group was rather suspicious of him from the first. These suspicions gave rise to some rather outlandishly incorrect beliefs, such as the suggestion that O. was not in fact gay. However, though some contents of this belief were inaccurate on such points, their overall thesis turned out to be correct: O. was and is fishy.

A third, more worldly group whose worldview I am beginning to share more and more, simply related the following: "I like to take my relationships 2 hours at a time. If they're ok after 2 hours, I try 2 more hours, and so on."

So, as a result of their own politeness for the most part, I don't know the true feelings of most of my friends vis a vis O., though I suspect a great deal.

The more sensible among them understood that I was aware of O.'s hazy history and that I was playing a waiting game with a young man who was making me quite happy and who could potentially turn out well. It was noted after his return to me with the job that he had made remarkable concessions in his lifestyle for someone so young, for the sake of being with me. The suspicious intelligence above only commented "did I know how hard it was going to be getting rid of him now?"

In the end, I must appreciate most of my friends for their advice, for their listening, and for their implicit support no matter how silly they may have thought I was being. One of my friends only was ungracious enough to refuse to continue discussing O. with me (having given me his opinion, which I suppose was the only one that mattered to him); however, I excuse him on the basis that his boyfriend, whose relationship with him no doubt remains perfect, was suddenly developing mammaries.

However, I believe most of my friends gave me more credit for astuteness. Naturally I knew there were fishy things going on. I gave O. various openings, prompted him in various ways, hinted to him that I knew there were parts of his story that didn't dovetail, highlighted his own self-contradictions in as non-confrontational a manner as possible. He consistently failed to trust me enough simply to tell me the truth. Sometimes, in the end, certain things actually turned out to be completely innocuous- he had simply developed such a habit of secrecy that he kept them secret.

The terrible thing was the hope. I kept hoping he would jump for one of the lines I was tossing him to save our relationship from the inevitable meltdown that must occur when there is no trust between persons. There was a horrible fascination in watching him sink, while at the same time pretending to make feints at the lifelines I was throwing him in all sincerity knowing that the consequences, should he grab at one, would be painful for us both- but at least honest and healing.

Why did I bother? Well, I had been in love, after all, and I wasn't still over him. Plus, there may be something to Proust's assertion that intellectuals must choose difficult partners who make a mystery of their lives, to avoid the simplicity (and thus, boredom) that must inexorably ensue with the decent, straightforward, and bourgeouis paragons who tragically deserve our attentions so much more.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Back To The Story

O and I got by in our semi-functional way for a number of months, and although we weren't see as much of each other as we really wanted, it was better and less stressful when we did. O. certainly didn't have any extra time to be up to any nonsense, and he had his own source of income. He wanted to change some things about his life, however.

He lived waaaaay the heck out in Bang Na, near the Ramkhamhaeng university campus there. It was easily a 90 minute commute. Since he could stay with me downtown, it was easier on those days to get to work. But on some days he couldn't stay with me (I never did trust him enough to give him his own key) and then it was very tiring for him. After a few months he asked for my help to move to a new apartment.

He was still paying his own rent in the old apartment, but he needed money for the first month's deposit on the new one. It wasn't that much- just a few thousand- and I was happy at the idea of his living closer to me (but not too close- I wasn't ready for him to move in yet, not at all).

We had a good Christmas and a good New Year.

I noticed, however, that he was asking me for a lot of extra little things- clothes, books, grooming supplies. It was putting stress on both of us- he didn't like to be constantly asking me for money, and I didn't like being asked. We both could see that his slim salary (only about 4000B a month the first 6 months, after subtracting a 1000B "deposit" for each of them) was not enough for him to pay for his apartment (2000B a month) and live, too. So we made up a monthly budget- including all the things he regularly needed and a few things he regularly wanted- and I agreed to pay the difference between what he earned and what he needed, as long as he was working and still in school. It wasn't that much, adding up in the end to about 3000B a month.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Some may wonder: with the great differences between us, with the obvious stresses on our relationship from those differences and O.'s lack of openness, what was it that held us together?

The attraction was physical, of course.

I am a large, rather overweight man. Not grossly so- not the type where you would react to a picture of me by saying "oh my GOD how can he LIVE like that!!!," but heavy enough that the motorcycle drivers occasionally complain when I want to use their services (they can't go quickly over the bumps in the road without scraping the bottom of their bikes). I am also exactly O.'s type.

How do I know? Well, if it weren't enough that he had unbounded enthusiasm about doing almost anything with me in bed, and a seemingly unlimited supply of affection and hugs, I also got to see O.'s porn collection at one point. Not for the faint-hearted- I never knew how popular big, hairy, beary type guys could be until I saw the range of videos we star in. Furthermore all of O.'s previous (and regrettably, present-day) foreign friends shared a suspiciously similar physique.

For those leading a "normal," straight, vanilla lifestyle adhering to the Madison-avenue wetdreams of television and fashion ads, it can be difficult accept that not only is it true that people come in different sizes, shapes, and flavours, but that people's TASTES do as well, despite commercialisation's best efforts to assure that "one size fits all." I have in the past received pitying, puzzled, derogatory, and even contemptuous reactions from thinner people who knew me regarding my romantic chances, even in cases where, ironically, I knew for a certainty that my sex life was much more active and interesting than theirs. There truly is someone for everyone.

It was less puzzling to those who knew us both why I was attracted to O. He was a handsome, muscular, medium-built young man with plenty of charm, humour, and intelligence. When we went out together he would regularly get stares from Thais and foreigners around us. A lot of people assumed he was with me primarily for money, but as I have tried to show, though he was deceitful and unreliable about money, he certainly knew I could afford to give him more but was never greedy about it. I think his worst financial sin was in asking me for money so that he could pretend he needed it.

As a side note, there is an ongoing acrimonious debate in the gay community about whether Thai gays really like older gay men or if they simply have little choice.

I am not a sociologist, but I can report that my older gay friends are not lacking in dates- non-financially based dates- and that they regularly tell me stories which they admit they cannot tell their friends back home simply because they will not be believed. I have heard stories ranging from young men lining up in discos for the chance to dance with a spry 55 year old, to those of young Thai and farang men struggling for the chance to have some quality time with a particularly popular man in his 80s. The Thai companion of a friend of mine regularly complained because none of the porn he could find featured an old man with a young man.

I have read a little research on this effect and a comparison with Asian gays who have emigrated to America. Apparently the effect wears off in second-generation immigrants. However, rather than denying that the effect is true in Asian cultures, I would argue that this simply means it cannot survive in the American one- which in my opinion, is a loss to American culture rather than something that should be stigmatised about the Asian ones.

"Steven"

Edited December 3, 2005 by PeaceBlondie

[ChrisP]

Proust's assertion that intellectuals must choose difficult partners who make a mystery of their lives, to avoid the simplicity (and thus, boredom) that must inexorably ensue with the decent, straightforward, and bourgeouis paragons who tragically deserve our attentions so much more.

Ohh yes. I'll buy that.. I've DONE that.

I posted as much somwhere else recently..

I am not a sociologist, but I can report that my older gay friends are not lacking in dates- non-financially based dates- and that they regularly tell me stories which they admit they cannot tell their friends back home simply because they will not be believed.

I can vouch for this too... and when you relate the stories back in Western culture.. the belief is that it MUST be for money. How could it POSSIBLY be for anything else..?! Btw, checking the bf's porno collection IS a good test, btw. When I checked my current bf's collection, it was a relief. It was all about guys like me... I stopped asking so many questions after that..

However, rather than denying that the effect is true in Asian cultures, I would argue that this simply means it cannot survive in the American one

So because that's what happens in Western culture, therefore it must be true world-wide.

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm alternating now between the "episodic" parts of my story, and some more "thematic" parts, because there are rather long periods of time in which nothing much worth mentioning goes on- except, as George Eliot called it, the unnatural progression from breakfast to lunch to dinner. You can take it as read that things proceed more or less as normal between episodic posts, while the thematic posts are intended to give you more of a feel of what it was like (mostly) living with O.

O. And His Studies

Every few months- and it didn't seem like many months between them- Ramkhamhaeng University would have exams. The exams went on... and on... and on... in this case, though O. may have been lying about specific dates, I know that the overall schedule of the university truly is like this. Exam periods go on for weeks, and a single student may have nearly a dozen exams. The exams are, in fact, the most important thing about RKH U., as the university is what they call an "open" university- in other words, no attendance, homework, or other projects are actually required. They do *have* classes, should you choose to attend them- although they are largely played and replayed on tape to huge auditoriums and cafeterias full of students. But what many (most?) of the hundreds of thousands of students enrolled there do, is work on Silom.... no, just kidding, although it seems that way sometimes. Most of the purchase a study text for the class- printed in-house on ultra-low-quality newsprint- and simply cram for the exam, which is the only thing on which credit is based (and which is usually pass/fail, anyway).

It *is* possible to get a good education from RKH, and I know at least one young man who finished his degree and got an excellent, legitimate job afterwards (with the help and support of his jai dee boyfriend, who used to post on this forum). It is also possible to stay enrolled and fail most of your classes for years and years at a time without ever getting anywhere. This was O.'s preferred method. I once looked at his transcript. His marks were nearly random- half P and half F. He complained that he really didn't have much time to study while working so much (which was true), though he admitted that if he weren't working he probably wouldn't be spending his time studying, anyway. I told him that I would only support him to study full time if he *actually* studied, and he admitted that probably wasn't going to happen. When I met O., he had been a student at that university for about 2 years, and I think his expected time of graduation is in another 6 or 7 (though he would get angry and deny it when I started to calculate the matter out).

O.'s major is politics, as I think I have mentioned- his initial career choice was to become a policeman, but as time has gone on (especially after that recent incident involving police brutality on KSR) his attitude has changed- to quote him directly, "**** the police."

What is probably more important and interesting in the context of the story and relationship, however, was O.'s reaction to the *stress* of the exams. More than one foreigner dating a college student Thai here has told me of this kind of problem. When Thais are going through exams, they go bananas. Nothing made it more likely that O. would go out, get stinking drunk, and do something horribly stupid and/or inconsiderate, than if he had an exam the next day. I learned to fear the exam times, and even occasionally pre-empted O.'s craziness by banning him from staying with me on exam nights (when he was particularly likely to come home drunk and stinking of cigarette smoke).

The typical routine:

O.: Cutie, I will study with my friends tonight and come home to sleep with you later.

Me: I have to go to work early tomorrow. Are you going to come home before 10?

O.: Yes, I will. I have to get up early too for my exam.

(at 3AM- I have already gone to bed.)

[knock at the door]

Me: eeeeeeeuuuurrrrrrhhhhh?

O. (much too loudly, in the hall): Cutie, it's me, let me in!

Me: UrrrrRRGggggghhhhhhhh.

(a few minutes later I open the door)

O. (grinning drunkly, stinking of alcohol and sweat, reaches for me and hugs me):

Hey, cutie!

Me (faintly): Why are you so late? Have you been drinking?

O. (groping me): Not so much!

Me (resisting): I think you should take a shower.

O. (scowling suddenly): No, it's too cold. Ok, I sleep on the floor.

And he would, too. Once he slept IN the shower. On two occasions he came home with piercings, and on the worst, a full-scale tattoo covering one side of his chest. He would always be drunkly horny, which could have its attractions if it weren't for the stinky sweaty smoky aura. I tried to discourage these kinds of evenings, and in most cases I was successful- except during exam weeks.

On the balance, I think I was luckier than some foreigners. I've heard stories about constant, repeated arrivals at 2am (or later) in various states of inebriation, etc., etc. However, in the end I think it's also about standing up for yourself- I wasn't shy to throw O. out when he was "bad," and he gradually learned not to expect a warm welcome when he came home in such a state- which usually meant he would go to his own room, unless he was so drunk that he forgot the reaction I would have.

"Steven"

[DUMPSTER]

talking of bore.... yawns and moves on

[Ijustwannateach]

Ah, it's a relief you're showing your true colours. Don't let the door slam you on the bum on the way out, etc., etc.... (anyone want to make me a smilie for that? I seem to get a lot of these "I'm going to bother to post here now just to show how bored I am with your story" type posts....)

"Steven"

[DUMPSTER]

The boredom thing was merely a responce to your post about being bored. But then if you're getting so many of these "I'm bored posts" doesnt that tell you something about the topic or even the gay forum? It would be nice to have something gay related to chat about witout being flamed by you and your friends but it appears your relationship is the highlight of the board. I guess thats how you get 2000 posts by talking about yourself. Are you American by any chance?

Back on topic as I digressed. Wouldn't the dramas of your relationship be better on a blog or even a novel/movie?

[Ijustwannateach]

Somehow I think discussion of the state of the gay forum on the thread about my relationship with O. is a bit...

as well as my nationality (why is it that gay forum trolls always want to know my nationality?)... but if you want to start a thread to discuss the state of the gay forum, post away- it might be more amusing than your other recent posts.

And baby, I ain't flamed no one here. If'n I flamed you, you would know it!

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Nationality? It's off topic, but Steven's story about his relationship with O doesn't seem affected by whether he's Finnish or finished, Canadian or caned. I find the story fairly interesting. I didn't know Thai uni students get that stressed during exams, or that exams last that long. Might be helpful to know if one starts dating a uni student. And the part about your partner being sweaty, drunk and stinking of booze and cigarettes relates to lots of gay relationships. I didn't know my Thai boyfriend smoked cigarettes until we'd lived together more than a year.

And yes, thematic episodes are more interesting than a blow by blow description of smoking.

[DUMPSTER]

Now I understand Steven you just can't read and understand another persons post. I already apologized for going off topic but you had to have your little say and of course your troll quotes. Anyhow as for being American well it’s quite well known for Americans to rattle on about themselves to all and sundry oblivious to the boredom of the listeners.

As for flaming your to nice to do such a thing. As I said there are regular posters on here who like to bait newbies in order to get them banned. It's their sick little game.

Anyhow just a reply to your post. You couldn't bring yourself to answer my question about the Blog but never mind you just wanted to post your little provocation.

I won't hold my breath for the next installment of 'O' dear but happy postings.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's always gratifying to see that someone has such an interest in my writing, even when they're not planning to read it anymore.

Btw, you don't seem to be in quite such an unreal world anymore- in fact, if I weren't so sure that you didn't believe in the real world, I might think you're being somewhat catty or even trying to insult me. Fortunately, we know the *real* facts, don't we? Any nationalistic pettiness or flaming on your part is *only* simulated, and not real at all! What a relief!

Incidentally, in response to your questions about the format of this thread, as it's such a simulated burning issue for you: I like it as a thread. It started here, it's gay specific, and others can respond and interact regularly. Despite your deep, deep boredom with it (which you're hiding well with all this posting, you clever thing, you- and it's extra ironic that since the whole world is an illusion to you, you shouldn't really be bored or excited by anything, but you're also pretending to be bored), quite a number of other people seem interested. When it was on hiatus, I got a number of messages asking where it had gone (thanks to you, my gentle readers).

"Steven"

[DUMPSTER]

I'm just a mere mortal Steven doing my best in this illusion. At this time I'm as fallible as the next guy.

Happy posting Steven

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, this thread has been in the "dumps" for far too long- time to get back on topic, methinks.

The Brother

After he had moved into his new room near me, O. announced one day that his brother (recently graduated from high school at the tender young age of 20) was moving to Bangkok to seek his fortune (and to get a job to support the new motorbike he had just borrowed money to buy for his mother).

And he would let me meet him! Finally, I was going to meet a family member of O.'s after only, what, something like 2 years!

It was a red letter day, so we went out for MK (he likes it, I can take it or leave it) with the brother, who turned out to be similar but different- same height, lighter build, darker skin, more "Thai" looking face. Many facial features were similar, and the two were obviously delighted to be together again. Additionally, a small shy female cousin came in tow, who barely spoke a word other than a timid "sawasdee krap" the entire meal.

O.'s brother was a bit shy, too, but he warmed up as we ate and was making some jokes with O. He told O. I was cute and looked like Pooh Bear (I get that a lot).

After eating, we had ice cream and went to some sort of violent slasher flick (I don't remember which one). O. apologised as we were leaving.

O.: I have to take my little cousin to stay with my aunt, and take my brother back home. I have to stay with him tonight, I think.

It was a little surprising, but I could understand- how could he explain to his brother the first night in Bangkok that he wouldn't be staying the night at home in his own apartment with him?

On the way home, I felt elated. *Finally* I had met someone else in O.'s "real" world, the non-gay one, and I felt accepted.

"Steven"

[WilliamIV]

Maybe the "Female" cousin is Katoey - if "she" said "krap"!

[jdinasia]

Should change this to "How to drag something out to it's ultimate last moment" or "If I aint posting I aint alive" (and trust me IJWT does flame anyone that disagrees with him or calls him on his crap)

[dukkha]

I can hardly believe that this personal saga is still continuing as a thread, even more unbelievable is that, by posting this, I am contributing to the continuation of one person's journey through a relationship.....oh my gawd, give me a break...I hope it has been somewhat therapeutic for the person to narrate such a loooooooooooongggggggg and drawn out soap...happy 'Thingymas' and a peaceful Noumea..

[DUMPSTER]

As yet another topic on the gay forum is closed, by the good friend of IJWT, I have to agree with dukkha who says, I can hardly believe that this personal saga is still continuing as a thread.

jdinasia your spot on with your observations.

[WilliamIV]

Personally I find this thread very Interestiing & entertaining.

It obviously takes Time & Effort by the writer - and I for one am very willing to wait - and from past posts imagine most readers enjoy the Saga.

jdinasia - maybe you are unaware of the Thai word "krap"?

Bill

Edited December 24, 2005 by WilliamIV

[The_Moog]

He told O. I was cute and looked like Pooh Bear (I get that a lot).

It makes me want to regurgitate when people seek to anthropomorphize themselves with cute cartoonish figures.

[Steve2UK]

As yet another topic on the gay forum is closed, by the good friend of IJWT, I have to agree with dukkha who says, I can hardly believe that this personal saga is still continuing as a thread.

jdinasia your spot on with your observations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just what is your problem? The other thread was closed because it was getting sterile and going nowhere - objective decision by a moderator and not as some favour to a friend as you seem to want to insinuate. PeaceBlondie's entirely capable of defending himself, but I'll jump in and say that IMO your insinuation is uncalled for as well as offensive.

Now you're complaining that this thread continues. There seems to be no pleasing you....... Whether it's 2,000 or a few dozen posts, I'd be concerned if over half of mine were as negative, personally sniping and snide in character as seems to be your wont. Why don't you give it (and the rest of us) a rest?

[DUMPSTER]

If one cannot comment on another members post then what is the point to have a forum? I was merely agreeing with 2 other posters, is that such a crime? WilliamIV and you obviously disagree but hey that's life. WilliamIV stated his case eloquently you on the other hand seem to want to make a mountain out of a mole hill. That's your choice of course and while you and others may not like my posts because I don’t conform to the “old boy’s network” that is, old foreigner who visits Thailand twice a year and sends money to his young Thai b/f every month because he says he loves you, I am entitled to my view point just as you are. If everybody agreed with each other then indeed the forum and life in general would be quite sterile.

Merry Xmas to you.

Edited December 25, 2005 by DUMPSTER