What Is Your Religion?

[MISTERBONK]

The essence of Buddhism is internal. True Buddhists do not worship the Buddha, image or otherwise, or any supernatural being.

Then why do the Thai's flock to the Wat at every conceivable occasion? What's that if it's not worship? Ans as for other supernatural beings - they fall over themselves backwards in their belief of spirits, ghosts, and everything else that goes bump in the night!

[PeaceBlondie]

There you have it. We can't even agree if Buddhism is a religion, what true worship is, whether you have to obey the precepts to be counted as a believer, how to define a member, etc. Which is why it is silly for Thais to ask on employment application for the applicant's religion, since even the Thai Buddhists might have to write "mai kojai."

[kmart]

I always wondered about the term "practising?" Used either to describe someone's religion or homosexual preference. How much practice does it take before one becomes proficient?

[garro]

p1p said,

"Garro - I am afraid you are stuck in a rut of complete bull here. The very origin of the word "science" comes from Latin scientia, from scient-, sciens having knowledge, from present participle of scire to know. To know - To have knowledge. The very basic properties that set science apart from the requirements of "faith", which are to believe without certain knowledge.

You are trying to toss two thousand plus years of human accomplishments in the trash bin with your idiotic, dismissive statements."

Of course it is easy to dismiss anything people say that we don't agree with as 'idiotic'. I remember another poster discussing cognitive dissonance recently -an interesting theory and well worth investigating. I am not sure what the Latin root for a word proves. After all, many words miss the original meaning or have taken on new meanings. For example; religion is believed to derive from the Latin 'religare' to mean 'obligation or bond'. I am not sure that this is how most people view the word today. Just because a word means 'to know' doesn't prove that this is what it really describes.

I wasn't aware that science only had a 2,000 year history. I am sure that the ancient Greeks will be disappointed to not get a mention.

As for me dismissing science. It is possible to not be a slavish follower of something and yet not dismiss it. I have great respect for science but also try and be aware of its limitations.

[wolf5370]

(MISTERBONK @ 2008-04-17 00:54:38 )

(p1p @ 2008-04-17 07:15:38)

The essence of Buddhism is internal. True Buddhists do not worship the Buddha, image or otherwise, or any supernatural being.

Then why do the Thai's flock to the Wat at every conceivable occasion? What's that if it's not worship? Ans as for other supernatural beings - they fall over themselves backwards in their belief of spirits, ghosts, and everything else that goes bump in the night!

because they are following their superstition and earlier Animist beliefs that are intermingled with their customs, culture and historical makeup. They go to the Temples to 'make merit', meet up, talk to the monks (for at least as many reasons as westerners would see their spiritual advisers) and to absorb the spiritual vibe. Buddhist 'prayers' are more like promises to one's self than asking God for absolution or help - not that many Buddhists don't do this, of course they do, but that takes us back to the first part of my answer. We all need something to believe in outside of ourself - even if its science or the government or whatever.

Did that on-line thingie and got the following results, which I find interesting (I confused the h3ll out of it I think, it asked me the same questions 3 times - even though I used the weighting and took a while between some of the pages!) - I consider myself both a Buddhist (Theravada - based on the way I want to live my life and my general belief) and 'believer in God' (non-denominational and with no 'offspring'):

1. Sikhism (100%)

2. Unitarian Universalism (89%)

3. Liberal Quakers (86%)

4. Reform Judaism (82%)

5. Mahayana Buddhism (79%)

6. Theravada Buddhism (79%)

7. Jainism (74%)

8. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (73%)

9. Orthodox Judaism (68%)

10. Neo-Pagan (62%)

11. Hinduism (62%)

12. Bahแ'ํ Faith (61%)

13. Islam (58%)

14. Orthodox Quaker (57%)

15. New Age (55%)

16. Taoism (52%)

17. Secular Humanism (51%)

18. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (48%)

19. New Thought (44%)

20. Eastern Orthodox (41%)

21. Roman Catholic (41%)

22. Scientology (40%)

23. Seventh Day Adventist (38%)

24. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (37%)

25. Nontheist (36%)

26. Jehovah's Witness (28%)

27. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (20%)

[sgunn65]

So first Judaism is consigned to the Others category then it is justified as not a major religion based on numbers. There would have been alot more of us but Adolf and Joe made sure we remained in the minor leagues, perhaps they knew this poll was coming!

If numbers define what is major and minor then you would have to say that the UK was a minor nation based on population (the same as Thailand more or less). Forget the influence the UK has had on the world and the fact that every ex pat in Thailand speaks English as a first or second language. As a teacher Peace Blondie I am suprised at your definition.

And since Christianity and Islam both recognise Judaism does that not count?

So come on lets hear it for the Jews!!!!! Without us you probably wouldn't be freezing your bums off in a Bangkok Cinema .

[zaza]

none and all.........

I practice none and I do respect all.

Edited April 17, 2008 by zaza

[garro]

So first Judaism is consigned to the Others category then it is justified as not a major religion based on numbers. There would have been alot more of us but Adolf and Joe made sure we remained in the minor leagues, perhaps they knew this poll was coming!

If numbers define what is major and minor then you would have to say that the UK was a minor nation based on population (the same as Thailand more or less). Forget the influence the UK has had on the world and the fact that every ex pat in Thailand speaks English as a first or second language. As a teacher Peace Blondie I am suprised at your definition.

And since Christianity and Islam both recognise Judaism does that not count?

So come on lets hear it for the Jews!!!!! Without us you probably wouldn't be freezing your bums off in a Bangkok Cinema .

I agree that the Jewish contribution to the world far outweighs their number.

[Gary A]

Organized religions are the worst threat mankind has ever faced. Those with the fairy tale books are the most dangerous. The muslin atrocities of today and the christian crusades in the past should tell you this.

Worship your God as you see fit, but forget the phony books.

[Tomkagai]

Organized religions are the worst threat mankind has ever faced. Those with the fairy tale books are the most dangerous. The muslin atrocities of today and the christian crusades in the past should tell you this.

Worship your God as you see fit, but forget the phony books.

Well said Gary A.......remember reading somewhere a quote which said....Organised Religion - created by one group of men to control another group of men....or words to that effect...

Christianity and Islam have a lot to answer for....considering the fairy tale books talk about...Peace, Understanding, turn the other cheek, non-violence etc etc.

Practice your faith anyway you want and try not to be a hypocrit or judgemental about the way other people practice their faith...

Personally I am an athiest and have come that way over many years after observing how hypocritical the major faiths are (read - Christianity and Islam)

[Neeranam]

Personally I believe in God, I have no qualms about stating that. I also class myself as a Buddhist (Theravada as that is the Temple I go to and the denomination I have studied). I do not see much contention between the two; to miss quote Buddha slightly (i.e. put them in my own words but keeping the sentiment) - It is OK to use as much of my teachings such that you require to make your path through life, using, modifying and discarding as needs be on the journey (taken from the "Treat my teachings like a raft; to be discarded upon the shore after the crossing is made" and others). I don't see god as a Father-Time like figure or a 'sky-fairy' as someone earlier suggested, but as a force (call it 'science' if you must, but I equate a sentience to it - I can't talk to a test tube). I believe in Karma (my version of it at least) and in energy recycling (my version of reincarnation that complies with the theory of conservation of energy) and in free will. My belief is that we are always offered a choice, an escape perhaps, regardless of where we are on our life's progress and however many times we have ignores earlier 'escapes' (or 'better choices' would be a better term I guess). Many times I have put my faith in God, and I have always found a way out of whatever situation I have landed myself in (the skeptical will of course put this down to either dumb luck or good thinking under pressure etc, but I was there at the times - obviously - and I know my luck ain't that good!). I think Buddha's teachings are a great way to lead your life and to live harmoniously.

Very similar to my belief. I also believe that we can only be reincarnated as human. Time is cyclic. Karma can take many lives to "come back". Karma can be changed, which many Thai Buddhistdon't believe - hence the inability to admit things or make ammends.

I know God exists but I won't go into my spiritual experiences.

[Neeranam]

So where are the Quaker meetings in Thailand?

[PeaceBlondie]

So first Judaism is consigned to the Others category then it is justified as not a major religion based on numbers. There would have been alot more of us but Adolf and Joe made sure we remained in the minor leagues, perhaps they knew this poll was coming!

If numbers define what is major and minor then you would have to say that the UK was a minor nation based on population (the same as Thailand more or less). Forget the influence the UK has had on the world and the fact that every ex pat in Thailand speaks English as a first or second language. As a teacher Peace Blondie I am surprised at your definition.

And since Christianity and Islam both recognise Judaism does that not count?

So come on lets hear it for the Jews!!!!! Without us you probably wouldn't be freezing your bums off in a Bangkok Cinema .

I agree that the Jewish contribution to the world far outweighs their number.

I agree with what garro has said. The poll is flawed. It is difficult to discuss religion and non-religion. Actually, the UK is a minor nation, population-wise.

[Jefferson]

Absolute Krap! I strongly suggest you study the essences of these religions before you post statements such as this. Hindus and Christians do not worship idols, the idol, be it a Hindu god or Christ on the cross merely represent the essence of the teachings and the spirit of the god, who is not visible. They are a type of aide memoire, if you like. The essence of Buddhism is internal. True Buddhists do not worship the Buddha, image or otherwise, or any supernatural being.

Hmmmmmmmmm. Indeed Buddhism and Christianity don't approve of worshipping idols, but that's not what you said. You said 'Christians (and Buddhists) don't worship idols'. That's just not correct. Go tell that to the next guy you see with a dozen + 1 amulets around his neck, or paying respects to spirits, phalusses and have a doll house outside with the whole Mattel GI Joe set of figurines. Same with Catholics in particular, in many of the most Catholic regions of the world the Mary shrines are rife. (Though at least I hope this makes Garro happy in that there's now imaginary Gods & spirits around so at least they qualify as having a religion in his book. )

That's what I was hinting at earlier when I though that among common believers, there's a lot of similarity between your average Catholic and (Thai) Buddhist. (resisting the urge to put "Buddhists" in quotes here.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Jefferson

[distortedlink]

So where are the Quaker meetings in Thailand?

I don't know where the Quakers hold their meetings and was under the impression that they were all burnt as witches 500 years ago, or was it them who actually executed the witches, confusing. Certainly have enjoyed their breakfast cereals since my early childhood and still buying their products today. I visit Tesco Lotus who sells Quakers porridge in big red & blue tins.

Each morning when I am eating the porridge, I say, thank God for the Quakers.

Edited April 17, 2008 by distortedlink

[lannarebirth]

but I'm not sure if JC is God,

nah , he was just another deranged prophet wandering around palestine at that time.

Deranged? Well that's debatable. But the Pharisees certainly thought that way, which is why they had him killed: "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death..." (Deuteronomy 13:5 )

apart from judaism, which seeks no converts and makes no promises

No promises of an afterlife per se, yet promises, rather predicts the destruction of all non Jews.

they speak of bliss in the next world , but want power in this one.

Actually, Judaism is the one which wants all the power, as it is both political and "religious".

---

A survey with no choice for Jews that shakes yet another thaivisa anti-semite out of the closet.

Agree. How accurate could a poll be, that excludes both Judaism and Jediism?

http://www.thejediismway.org/

[distortedlink]

I am sure we wont have to wait too long for these posts to liven up with Christians Vs Jews and Jews Vs Christians. The sad people who participate in these sort of arguments are total brain dead idiots and only give more credibility to my views on religion.

Let us see if our Christian posters can withhold from winding up Jews with examples of directing them to anti Jewish articles and how long it will take before another Jew starts claiming anti-semisism, which is a cop out for anyone with opposing views.

It`s the same old circular arguments. Morons Vs Morons.

Politics and Religion, bad subjects to get started on. Attracts idiots like a magnet. And for any smart <deleted> who is thinking of saying, that includes me, I dont think so.

Edited April 17, 2008 by distortedlink

[JimsKnight]

The Poll is a bit flawed also in that you HAVE to activate the radio button for 'If Bhuddhist' for the poll to work whether Buddhist or not. Which is a bit misleading when seeing masses of falang buddhists on there

[JimsKnight]

Organized religions are the worst threat mankind has ever faced. Those with the fairy tale books are the most dangerous. The muslin atrocities of today and the christian crusades in the past should tell you this.

Worship your God as you see fit, but forget the phony books.

What a bunch of grade A conspiracy horse dung!

What phony books are you talking about?

If you mean the Koran and the Bible then it's the interpretation made by individuals which is often flawed and therefore the onus (Typo?) is on the individuals not the religion itself.

[Nepal4me]

I suggest that we are both atheists. You just worship one more god than I do. When you understand why it is that you dismiss all the other purported gods in the world, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

[p1p]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Indeed Buddhism and Christianity don't approve of worshipping idols, but that's not what you said. You said 'Christians (and Buddhists) don't worship idols'. That's just not correct. Go tell that to the next guy you see with a dozen + 1 amulets around his neck, or paying respects to spirits, phalusses and have a doll house outside with the whole Mattel GI Joe set of figurines. Same with Catholics in particular, in many of the most Catholic regions of the world the Mary shrines are rife. (Though at least I hope this makes Garro happy in that there's now imaginary Gods & spirits around so at least they qualify as having a religion in his book. )

That's what I was hinting at earlier when I though that among common believers, there's a lot of similarity between your average Catholic and (Thai) Buddhist. (resisting the urge to put "Buddhists" in quotes here.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong here. The praying to spirit houses and phallus's etc. is a manifestation of the ancient Brahmin, Animist religion and has nothing to do with genuine Buddhism. There is a hierarchy of Brahmin priests totally separate from the Buddhist Sangha. They normally dress in white when they are officiating.

Those who wear amulets are simply superstitious. Most simply pay a lip service to Buddhism and break most precepts on a regular basis. No genuinely practicing Buddhist would wear such.

If you have any interest in the purest forms of Therevada Buddhism, have a look at the Suan Mokh - Garden of Liberation temples in the South of Thailand. These temples and perhaps those founded by Ajahn Chah, (Wat Pa Pong and Wat Pa Nanachat in Esarn) or the temples founded by Ajahn Sumedho in the West, (the headquarters are at Amaravathi Temple at Great Gaddesden, near Hemel Hempstead in Hertfordshire UK.)

(Although Wats Pa Pong and Nanachat are reputed to have somewhat lost their way since the passing of Ajahn Chah.)

[sonnyJ]

Maybe people should do this test before deciding what religion they are?

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

You might be surprised by the results.

I actually posted this last year on another thread so sorry for the repetition.

Great questionnaire, very accurate IMHO I'm Wiccan and the results came back,

Kinda scary to see what came back in the lower couple of the top 10 though *shiver*

Thanks, interesting survey.

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)

2. Mahayana Buddhism (97%)

3. Theravada Buddhism (90%)

4. Neo-Pagan (89%)

5. Liberal Quakers (88%)

6. Taoism (83%)

7. Secular Humanism (81%)

8. New Age (79%)

9. Hinduism (72%)

10. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (69%)

11. Scientology (62%)

12. New Thought (61%)

13. Jainism (58%)

14. Orthodox Quaker (57%)

15. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (55%)

16. Nontheist (51%)

17. Reform Judaism (48%)

18. Sikhism (44%)

19. Bahá'í Faith (41%)

20. Seventh Day Adventist (31%)

21. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (26%)

22. Orthodox Judaism (21%)

23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (20%)

24. Islam (18%)

25. Jehovah's Witness (16%)

26. Eastern Orthodox (15%)

27. Roman Catholic (15%)

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)

2. Mahayana Buddhism (97%)

3. Theravada Buddhism (90%)

4. Neo-Pagan (89%)

5. Liberal Quakers (88%)

6. Taoism (83%)

7. Secular Humanism (81%)

8. New Age (79%)

9. Hinduism (72%)

10. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (69%)

11. Scientology (62%)

12. New Thought (61%)

13. Jainism (58%)

14. Orthodox Quaker (57%)

15. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (55%)

16. Nontheist (51%)

17. Reform Judaism (48%)

18. Sikhism (44%)

19. Bahá'í Faith (41%)

20. Seventh Day Adventist (31%)

21. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (26%)

22. Orthodox Judaism (21%)

23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (20%)

24. Islam (18%)

25. Jehovah's Witness (16%)

26. Eastern Orthodox (15%)

27. Roman Catholic (15%)

Do I have to say more, had to choose the other box.

[Gary A]

Organized religions are the worst threat mankind has ever faced. Those with the fairy tale books are the most dangerous. The muslin atrocities of today and the christian crusades in the past should tell you this.

Worship your God as you see fit, but forget the phony books.

What a bunch of grade A conspiracy horse dung!

What phony books are you talking about?

If you mean the Koran and the Bible then it's the interpretation made by individuals which is often flawed and therefore the onus (Typo?) is on the individuals not the religion itself.

Interpretation? Who wrote these fairy tale books? Who told them what to write? Did aliens bring down the divine word?

[buffcoat]

Well the survey got me spot on so whoever programmed the parameters did it well.

As an aside faith appears to be regarded as belief in a spiritual force without having direct contact with it but if you have had direct contact with such a force then is your belief no longer faith as it is based on certain knowledge?

[egg6447]

Science is faith based for too reasons; it relies on inductive reasoning, which is the faith that because something happened x number of times previously it will happen the same way the next time. It is also involves faith because nobody conducts every experiment so they need to have faith in what other people tell them. The new high priests in the lab coats.

so garro, would i be correct in assuming you were brought up in ireland. when you get a brainwashed paddy theres no beating it. you so obviously have not got a scientific or enquireing mind thats for sure. shame , so sad.

[garro]

egg6447, where I was brought up isn't really the point. I'm not sure what you mean by 'brainwashed paddy'. An enquiring mind doesn't often rely on gross stereotypes which mindlessly classify people by nationality. There is another word for that type of mind.

Edited April 17, 2008 by garro

[egg6447]

egg6447, where I was brought up isn't really the point. I'm not sure what you mean by 'brainwashed paddy'. An enquiring mind doesn't often rely on gross stereotypes which mindlessly classify people by nationality. There is another word for that type of mind.

so whats the answer

[tijnebijn]

egg6447, where I was brought up isn't really the point. I'm not sure what you mean by 'brainwashed paddy'. An enquiring mind doesn't often rely on gross stereotypes which mindlessly classify people by nationality. There is another word for that type of mind.

so whats the answer

' eggnorant '

[Gary A]

Since I was brought up in a catholic school and taught by nuns, I have to think that if anyone was brainwashed, it was me.

I just could never accept the faith part. I had questions that were never answered. I was basically told that there are things we are not supposed to understand and we must rely on faith. Actually I was never around non-catholics until I went in the service.

A jewish kid slept in the bunk beside mine. He was a very docile kid and he was picked on by many of the other sailors. One day I had my fill of it, jumped out of my bunk and asked the lead bully why he picked on the jewish kid. His answer was pure bullsh!t. He said the the kid was a jew and that was reason enough. Being the aggressive type that I was, I told him what I thought. That was when I began to question all religions. They didn't bully the jewish kid after that so at least I accomplished what I wanted to do.

I believe in God for the simple reason that God is the only explanation for what surrounds us. I don't believe in big bang theories or things like that. That just leads to other questions. What caused the big bang? My God didn't write any fairy tale books and didn't tell mortal man to write them for him. Most of us were born with a conscience and we should follow our conscience. Apparently some people were born not knowing right from wrong. That's why we must have so many silly laws.

[MISTERBONK]

Good to see the Atheists are leading by a short head!

Atheists 4/6, 2/1 the field

Edited April 17, 2008 by MISTERBONK