What Is The Expat Lifestyle?

[siamruby]

I have been reading up here about the living expenses in Thailand as I intend to move back there with my family next year. Most people say you need about 30,000 bth a month to maintain the expat lifestyle that included rent,I believe? Yes some people say you can live less than that but again you will not have that 'expat lifestyle'. What exactly is the expat lifestyle? lot of beers,lot of bars,girls, good food, or all those electrical gadgets you used to have aboard like washing machine,diswasher etc. or cars or what?

The reality is the Thais don't normally earn 30,000 baths a month. 15,000 bths I believe is a very good salary in Thailand. Looking around a job classfied in Thailand, manager - 15,000. computer programmer -12,000, secretary-10,000 , a supermarket worker- 6,000 , driver- 7,000.

Now these people still need to feed their family,sending their kids to school,paying the rent etc. But I understand that estimate 30,000 is for a single person! So how can they survive? And talking about the high earners in Thailand they probably drive the similar car to you,live in similar house to you,go to the same restaurants,pubs,clubs etc ,go on holiday, have all their modern convenience gadgets at home,internet cable tv or getting drunk stupid every Friday just like some of you do so what is the difference?

[Liverish]

didnt you read stickman this week on this topic ?

he says 60,000 must be a average .

if you have a family surely it will go higher ?

you cant quantify this amount , you may have crazy sepending habits , or your wife may be the same.

or you could be a frugal old bastard who can live on fresh air .

if you live upcountry you could live on little money .

will you have a car or use taxis ?

there are so many variables for each person ,depending on where you live and if your woman is a shopaholic ...

i guess you would live according to your income and savings available ...

[mbkudu]

Keep in mind that foreigners pay more for almost everything, even admission to

temples, amusement parks, ect. The only place you will pay the same as a Thai is

at a big department store.

[mango]

The only place you will pay the same as a Thai is

at a big department store.

and public transport, taxis, street stalls, motorbike taxi, pubs, clubs, restaurants, 7 eleven, family mart, health club etc etc etc.....

[Phil Conners]

I think most westerns used to a reasonable lifestyle would not want to have less than about 40-50,000 baht disposable per month. This does not include house/apartment, car or gadgets such as washing machine, TV, computer, mobile telephone etc.

[igotworms]

Sanity is a must...though it's hard to scrape together amidst the meat-wallets roaming around these parts.

I'd say 30,000 is plenty for a single man, not taking into account the excesses of a healty addiction to alcohol.

[dsukhumvit]

I have no clue how someone could maintain an expat lifestyle on less than 150,000 baht a month if by lifestyle, you mean things like golf, car, nice pad, dinner out, unless your maid cooks expat, alcohol, clubs with friends and travel, among other things. I mean that and also putting away cash for a rainy day which tthis country requires far more than where you are from.

Now if you just want to get by or aren't considering this to be a long-term residence, then I guess some far lower number, like 60,000 might work.

If you don't mind living in a postage stamp for an apartment, especially in Bangkok, do all your drinking at home or binge at happy hours, have free cable, no phone habit, read used newpapers and can handle shophouse food all the time and have no need to put anything away for a rainy day, maybe 30,000 a month would work, maybe for twenty days out of a month anyway.

[Axel]

Try to figure out what is a must you have at home and you want to have in LoS.

Just make a budget for everything you spend on a monthly basis.

If you have costs for heating half a year back home, consider aircon most of the year.

You like your steak, well done or rare you might not be willing to go for local food, at least not every day.

You take the tube? Consider taxi and, ok, new trains in BKK.

You walk back home? Forget it in LoS.

Once you have all your requirements, get the prices in Thailand.

Add to this health insurance, if you have children add schooling which is extremely expensive unless your child is with your Thai wife. If not you have to consider re-admission to a school back home after returning. A couple of years in a Thai school is not compatible with the system at home.

Figures as such mean nothing you must know what you absolutely need and what you might be able to forget about. Also consider, are you an expatriate staying in Thailand for 2-5 years or do you want to make your life here permanent.

Basic rule, you come to LoS as an expatriate on a temporary basis, make sure you live at least the same life style as at home. And be honest to yourself, same, not better.

How often do you fly from home to LoS every year? Maybe never. But living in LoS you might want to or have to go home once in a while. Add these costs.

[mbkudu]

The only place you will pay the same as a Thai is

at a big department store.

and public transport, taxis, street stalls, motorbike taxi, pubs, clubs, restaurants, 7 eleven, family mart, health club etc etc etc.....

Motorcycle taxis? You've got to be kidding! 7-11, for sure.

[penelope]

What exactly is the expat lifestyle?

It is completely different for everyone.

1) a single male english teacher expat

2) a regional manager + family, relocated to Citibank branch office in Bangkok

expat category 1) might satisfy their lifestlye on 30 K baht a month.

expat cateogry 2) might satisfy their lifestyle on 1 Mill. baht + perks a month.

and all other categorys in between.

[duke69]

1000 Euro not including rent and car.

Which means 50,000 Baht/month + at least another 25,000 Baht/month for a nice 100 sqmeters apartment + another 10,000 Baht for a car.

With 30,000 Baht/month you are enjoing a very normal life, forget girls and beers.

Travelling in Thai and Far East is a basic plus of an expat life and it costs!!!

ps. a normal salary in Bangkok is over 25,000 Baht is the person is good and has some experience, a very good secretary costs 20,000 Baht / month (including transportation allowance). This is what I pay my secretary!!

[palm]

We've been here 10 days, and 200,000 baht later we're having great fun Mainly from shopping binges

But seriously, I can't imagine having to get by on 30,000 baht a month - the rent alone in a decent condo up by the river is 37,000 a month excluding utilities.

Even 60,000 a month seems far too low for a decent expat lifestyle?

[Team Bukowski]

I'm a single male (ladies of TV take note ) living in Asoke.

My Rent for 2 bedroom condo is 25,000 / month.

My general living/entertainment expenses run out to around 25,000 - this includes bills, food (eating out at farang restaurants 3/4 times a week), "alcomohol", transport etc etc.

I think it would be a very ordinary existence if you were to try and live on 30,000 a month here in total. Maybe upcountry you could do it, but certainly not living in inner city Bkk.

[dr. kc]

60,000 can be a struggle!

As already said, almost everything is more expensive for Farang than Thai's and to maintain a standard of living comparable to home you either need some initial investment to bring out here or a wage in the 60's p/m.

Personally;

From a 60k budget;

i) Car around 15k - either renting at around 15k or buying a new one on finance (can't risk a 2nd hand one, and can't afford to buy out).

ii) Condo 5k - for the postage stamp variety, but at least the view is good!

iii) 1 round of golf a week - 5k p/m

iv) Healthy alcohol addiction - 5-10k p/m (depending where, when, and how healthy!)

v) Oh yeah, food (you can see my priorities) - 5-10k p/m

Thats 35-45k p/m without any 'extras'... I guess some people can do without a car, but I need one to get to work!

[Savage]

hmmmmm,

My wife and I have a combined income of 53,000 plus commision that can vary between 5000 and 25,000 a month.

We own a house, non central but with clean air, cable tv, air conditioning. That is a HOUSE (not room) with 2 floors, 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms. We have a car which is almost new.

I feel the urge to go out for a couple a drinks on Fridays, we eat at home from the market.

According to some of these messages I am falling way short of the bare minimum it takes to maintain a life as an expat. I could not disagree stronger.

If you have a bad alcohol problem, the need to live in bars & use the woman and eat out every meal then maybe you have a problem.

I feel sorry for people who feel that they can't maintain a girlfriend or even have one for less than 100 odd thousand. These people must be very ugly without personality whatsoever. Hmmm, mind you that would fit the bill for most expats i've met.

I live no less a life I did back home for the money we earn. I think some of these people are trying to live like colonial masters, saddos

[Dr. Burrito]

I guess it depends on the expat lifestyle you need. Me, I love Italian dinners and golf. Both of them, done well, cost quite a bit.

We own a house, I snuck my car in, and have two children that will soon be attending school. I want the best for them, period, so that is going to cost a lot of money too. Hardly seems like being a colonial master.

If you can get by on 53,000 more or thereabouts, then I salute you. I just can't accomplish that myself.

[Savage]

I guess it depends on the expat lifestyle you need. Me, I love Italian dinners and golf. Both of them, done well, cost quite a bit.

We own a house, I snuck my car in, and have two children that will soon be attending school. I want the best for them, period, so that is going to cost a lot of money too. Hardly seems like being a colonial master.

If you can get by on 53,000 more or thereabouts, then I salute you. I just can't accomplish that myself.

Sorry Doc, I was referring to earlier quotes than yours.

Cheers

[LivinLOS]

Only you can answer those questions...

I know guys managing bars etc with 20k or so income a month and they make it by..

I know others that probably spend 100k+ per month and one or two wealthy individuals that live in big villas etc that have a staff bill that probably comes close to that.

In BKK is going to be a lot worse than out in the sticks.. Phuket carries a bit of a land premium too... Personally a cheap month is about 40 - 50k.. A normal month is about 80 and a bad month can be anything !!! I live quite well and have toys like fast(ish) bikes and a car, home theater, stuff that are certainly not necessities..

My bar bills are probably my biggest monthly outgoings..

[Crush]

How do English teachers survive?

How much does an English teacher need to survive in Bangkok, i do not live in Bangkok and never would, but how does an English teacher survive on the pittance that they are paid?

Maybe a few of them can tell the rest of us how to eek out an existance on a pittance salary.

[Savage]

How do English teachers survive?

How much does an English teacher need to survive in Bangkok, i do not live in Bangkok and never would, but how does an English teacher survive on the pittance that they are paid?

Maybe a few of them can tell the rest of us how to eek out an existance on a pittance salary.

maybe if you cut down on your vices you'd find out.

If you told the Thai's that 35,000 to 45,000 was a pittance they'd probably target you immediately as one to scam for as much as they possibly can.

[siamruby]

Thanks for all your messages guys but really no one can explain how can the Thais live from their salaries? even a good salary of 25,000 bths is still not enough for the ideal of expat lifestyle. And all the things you said you need seem to be very similar to the middle class Thais's lifestyle anyway. Well,I agree there are a lot of places in LOS that you have to pay more than the Thais simply because you are farangs, imagine that happens in the UK you would have been arrestted for racial discrimination!

Again thinking about all the things you do back home. Will you go to pubs,clubs,restuarants,amusement arcade,theme parks etc everyday/night? in my case we only do that once a week for us or taking kids out once or twice a week during the weekend. Also we don't smoke and only drink occasionally. And the need to use the bars and the BG? As I have been using the word 'we' now and again so you know we will have no expenses on that one I know you all beginning to think now 'what s a boring existence!' yes oh and we don't play golf either But hang on we have a few hobbies but the favorite one which cost a fortune in the UK namely arts and antiques which I think out of the questions in LOS as I don't see anything worth collecting there.... no, we are not that old yet as our little one only just start school. Well talking about school,no the kids are not going to school in Thailand, I am teaching them at home as I strongly don't believe in the education system there ,in fact not even in the UK. Now you can call me eccentric if you want

P.S. We intend to move to Chiang Mai although we own a house in BKK and we are preparing to buy a car outright and know the price of the car we want.

[Dancali]

Each person's situation is different.

The cost of most necessities in Bangkok, from food to rent, is easily less than half what it would cost back in the West.

A typical single guy working in America might pull in around $3,000/month. After taxes, this is about $2,000/month. A $2,000/month living standard in America is pretty easily similar to a 40,000/baht a month standard in Thailand. Unless you would hold that a typical single guy's salary in America is a pittance, you cannot hold that 40,000 in Thailand is a pittance.

When you throw in family, kids, kids' education, etc., the bills can get much higher. So such an individual has to evaluate his situation differently.

To those who need to spend 100,000/month tin Thailand, that's fine for them, but that would be similar to $5,000/month spent in America. $5,000/month, after taxes, would put such an individual in the top 20% or so of Americans. It's hard to call this very typical.

Personally, I could easily live like a king in Thailand, but my total budget, for myself and my gf living a very comfortable life, ends up being around 40,000/month. I'm probably not typical though as I'm a strong believer in living below your means and saving money, but that's a different post.

[Blake7]

I am not a big spender but i seriously cannot see how people live on 30K a month in Bangkok. I mean how do you do it? After rent I go through about 100K. I have got a wife and kid though.

[mike100]

Interesting thread.

My experience of an expat lifestyle in Thailand for two years.

We own a largish house ten minutes from Pattaya (off Soi Country Club,) have a 3 year old Tiger truck, two motorbikes, a Kawasaki Boss for me and a Tiger Joker for her, computer, cable TV, DVD and video players in four rooms, two kids maintained up country who spend all their holidays with us, two well fed dogs, Lol, have a meal out in a restaurant most days, plus wife cooks at home, about four evenings out per week with a good social life, one night per week staying in a hotel to save the drive home and to make a change, and a much better lifestyle than we ever had in London, which also wasn’t bad although much, much more expensive.

Initially, a few million baht setting everything up to a standard better than we had in the UK, but no rent or transport to find after the first few months.

Of course some diesel and running costs, but on average I recon on drawing out about 40,000 THB per month which covers utility bills, food, drink and monthly entertainment etc. The wife has a separate 10,000 THB income which covers the kids plus her monthly trip of a few days up country.

Apart from this there are extra’s like medical & car insurance, yearly visa extension, holidays and a trip back to the UK once a year, although never really kept tabs on these expenses.

I know one bar manager who earns just 15,000 THB per month. He rents a modest 2 bed bungalow 20 miles away for under 3,000 per month, has a long term GF who has a small income, and tells me he has a good and very happy life for the last 14 years here.

Not saying I could live like him, but it can be done.

[duke69]

Yes Mike

just confirming what I posted yesterday: about 50,000 Baht + House rent + car

You have your own house and a car.

Considering the interests you might get from the money invested in your House (should you sell your home and rent a similar one), to have a decent EXPAT LIFE you need from 80,000 Baht to 90,000 Baht per month (all inclusive).

If you're single you spend some more money in pubs (may be girls) and travelling all around Far East, if you're married you spend the same amount of money in Kids, education, dogs. More or less nothing changes is just a different cost allocation.

ps. English teachers are living OK in BKK, but they cannot call it "EXPAT LIFE" and the question was "What is the Expat Lifestyle".

[snakestick]

I think most westerns used to a reasonable lifestyle would not want to have less than about 40-50,000 baht disposable per month. This does not include house/apartment, car or gadgets such as washing machine, TV, computer, mobile telephone etc.

eye agree w/u 100% that this is a minimum.

[Dradam]

If you work on a work permit, Thai taxes are about 20% although this depends on your salary.

Apartments in Bangkok can range from 1,000 Baht to 100,000 Baht. I would say a decent apartment would be between 15,000 and 30,000 Baht.

Food bills will vary depending on the level of restaurant you tend to go to. 20 Baht a meal off the street, 60 Baht per meal at a decent restaurant, or 150 Baht+ per meal for a nicer restaurant.

Transportation - Buses can be 5-10 Baht per trip, taxis 50-100 Baht or more (depending on distance), skytrain 18 baht per trip.

Many purchases are not cheaper than other countries, especially if you shop at department stores.

For just apartment, meals, phone bills, electricity, and transportation, I spend approximately 40,000 Baht per month. It would take a 50,000 Baht salary for just this (before taxes). This would mean no entertainment of any sort (not even buying a 100 baht DVD which Taksin has announced are 80% eliminated from the streets of Thailand).

It also wouldn't include any savings or any purchases.

I also have no family so I have no expenditures for children or wife, although I do tend to pay the bill whenever I go out with friends so I don't live a frugal lifestyle.

I don't attend the bar scene but that would probably add significantly to the cost of living in Thailand (I would be amused to hear the bills from other expats to see what this can run in a month).

In the end, it depends on your comfort level. To live the same as I did as a college student in the US (living off student loans), I would require at least 80,000 Baht per month in Thailand. Less than that would put me at a lower standard.

[Blake7]

I'm just wondering what happens when the guys who earn 25K a month want to leave Thailand. I mean, a flight home is 2 months salary and then what when you arrive? How are you going to find the deposit for renting an apartment or a mortgage?

[thedude]

to answer blake 7, i think most of those living on less like 25k per month are more like long term stayers who may not consider relocating back to the home country. in this sense i think they are more like defacto residents of thailand rather than expats. many are self employed, retirees or are not working on a full-time basis. many are also here because they are married to a thai citizen. and so i think their expectations on lifestyle here is more "localised", and even though they are foreigners, they are essentially of a different category than "expats".

my understanding of what expat means is more narrow. i take it to mean those who are employed (with a work permit) specifically to enter and work in thailand. mostly they are management, professionals or the technically skilled, working for foreign companies, or in rare cases, work high up in the heirarchy of large local companies where their specific skills are sought. expats typically have a finite period of posting to the country and their packages were designed and negotiated specifically for the assignment, often incorporating many "hardship" allowances, as compensation for leaving their otherwise cushy stations back home.

there is also a third category whom i have met that kind of straddle the 2 mentioned, these are foreigners who came initially as expats, but decided to stay long term for various reasons. most will eventually start their own businesses or take on more local terms for employment. people in this category tend to live on something in between the fabulous expat packages and the more basic localised foreign resident income.

and the incomes are relevant to their respective lifestyles. as has been pointed out already, you can live very economically in thailand if you chose to be localised but, if you are an expat and your work and profile dictates that you have to live downtown, attend cocktails and garden parties, society and gala events, entertain in expensive hotels and restaurants, then the world is not enough, you'd definitely require a 6 to 7 figure monthly income to sustain it.

[boris]

hmmmmm,

My wife and I have a combined income of 53,000 plus commision that can vary between 5000 and 25,000 a month.

We own a house, non central but with clean air, cable tv, air conditioning. That is a HOUSE (not room) with 2 floors, 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms. We have a car which is almost new.

I feel the urge to go out for a couple a drinks on Fridays, we eat at home from the market.

According to some of these messages I am falling way short of the bare minimum it takes to maintain a life as an expat. I could not disagree stronger.

If you have a bad alcohol problem, the need to live in bars & use the woman and eat out every meal then maybe you have a problem.

I feel sorry for people who feel that they can't maintain a girlfriend or even have one for less than 100 odd thousand. These people must be very ugly without personality whatsoever. Hmmm, mind you that would fit the bill for most expats i've met.

I live no less a life I did back home for the money we earn. I think some of these people are trying to live like colonial masters, saddos

Mmm... some very confused thought processes here.You make the case you can live adequately on your relatively low income although probably not what would normally be considered the expat lifestyle.Fair enough and no problem with this.However suddenly you start ranting about ugly people without personality, colonial masters, saddos, alcoholics on the basis that some people have a more affluent lifestyle than your own.I suppose you would also rant and rave about english teachers, NGO workers etc who don't live in "a HOUSE with 2 floors,2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms." Just accept there are people are different from yourself.

Incidentally affluence -except for those who inherit it- doesn't usually happen by accident.It's the result of ambition,hard work,intelligence,social skills etc.At the same time wealth obviously has no moral connotation at all, ie doesn't make a better person (nor a worse one).