Pre-2003 Teacher's License Grandfathered?

[CosmicSurfer]

At what point are Teacher's Licenses considered grandfathered?

Surely teacher's that have been licensed for more than 5 Years shouldn't have to take any test, or do they?

If there is a "Grandfather" policy in place for existing Teacher's Licenses when is it calculated from? 2003? 2002? Earlier?

Just wondering????

CS

[CosmicSurfer]

Let me broaden the scope of my question to include all situations....

What are the "Exemptions" to having to take the Teacher's License/Thai Culture Tests?

Obviously a Degree in Education is one of them.. But what are the others??

Or are there any other exemptions?

CS

[Petch01]

Happy Songkran,

Please read this document the day after tomorrow. http://www.ksp.or.th/upload/301/files/570-8429.pdf

Petch01

[CosmicSurfer]

Happy Songkran,

Please read this document the day after tomorrow. http://www.ksp.or.th/upload/301/files/570-8429.pdf

Petch01

Clause 4 - Any Applicant with at least one year of experience in teaching

operations and other degrees without either a foreign license to practice the teaching

profession or a graduate diploma in education taking at least one year of study shall

have passed the knowledge evalnation criteria under Clause 2 (I) (2) and (3).

Clause 6 - Any foreigner who is a teacher in any educational institution prior

to the date of enforcement of the Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act

RE. 2546 (2003) shall submit an application for a license to practice the teaching

profession within one hundred and twenty days from the date of enforcement of this

Notification.

So.. Under Clause 4 - A person with a BA in any subject, and a TEFL/Celta, who has already been a teacher in Thailand for at least one year is Test Exempt . Correct??

Furthermore, a Teacher With an Education Degree and with 10 years teaching experience in a Foreign country, but who has never taught in Thailand, will still be required to take the Test on "(3) Knowledge for practicing the teaching profession under Clause 5 (a) of the Regulations Governing Professional Standards and Ethics RE. 2548 (2005)."

Whereas... Under Clause 6 - To quote my good friend Bill Clinton, "It all depends on what the meaning of the word "IS", is."

Must a teacher still be employed by the same institution as they were in 2003 or earlier to be "Grandfathered"???

Or, can they qualify, even if they have changed institutions, or even if they are not currently teaching under a contract?

Just how literal is this translation? Or has the word "is" been mistranslated from the word "was" ???

I hope...

CS

Edited April 16, 2008 by CosmicSurfer

[PeaceBlondie]

Or, perhaps the correct English form of be is has been. Or was. Look further at the requirements there, and notice it has a 120 day window to apply for the grandfathering, beginning with the enforcement of the Act. What does enforcement mean in Thai educational law, which is often never enforced? Hasn't the 120 days expired, years ago?

Literally. Something tells me that most Thai law is not interpreted literally, but liberally, at whim.

Let me guess: similar to how the Just War Theory means whatever your favorite theologian wants it to mean, these Thai Educational Act words in Thai mean whatever the TCT and the ministries want it to mean.

[CosmicSurfer]

Or, perhaps the correct English form of be is has been. Or was. Look further at the requirements there, and notice it has a 120 day window to apply for the grandfathering, beginning with the enforcement of the Act. What does enforcement mean in Thai educational law, which is often never enforced? Hasn't the 120 days expired, years ago?

Literally. Something tells me that most Thai law is not interpreted literally, but liberally, at whim.

Let me guess: similar to how the Just War Theory means whatever your favorite theologian wants it to mean, these Thai Educational Act words in Thai mean whatever the TCT and the ministries want it to mean.

So... Does this mean that there is NO.. Repeat... NO grandfathering?

I give up.. My BS meter just overloaded.

I retire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CS

[culicine]

Or, perhaps the correct English form of be is has been. Or was. Look further at the requirements there, and notice it has a 120 day window to apply for the grandfathering, beginning with the enforcement of the Act. What does enforcement mean in Thai educational law, which is often never enforced? Hasn't the 120 days expired, years ago?

Literally. Something tells me that most Thai law is not interpreted literally, but liberally, at whim.

Let me guess: similar to how the Just War Theory means whatever your favorite theologian wants it to mean, these Thai Educational Act words in Thai mean whatever the TCT and the ministries want it to mean.

So... Does this mean that there is NO.. Repeat... NO grandfathering?

I give up.. My BS meter just overloaded.

I retire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CS

I asked about grandfathering at the TCT culture course. On the application in mentioned about June 13, 2003 cutoff date, before which you didn't nbeed the educationa qualification. I've had my TL since before them, but apparently everyone still needs the teaching qualifications / Culture course, regardless of this (probably because the 120 days to do the appication from the date of notification has expired).

[Ijustwannateach]

Yup- let's all memorise the names of parts of Thai musical instruments. Yeeha!

[PeaceBlondie]

Discussions about grandfathering in Thai law have been discussed at length regarding Thai immigration law. It appears that there may not be an equivalent term in Thai. I guess Daniel grandfathered me 23 years ago by making me a grandfather.

The concept of having a legal clause that permits existing people to qualify under the old law may exist by another name in Thai. It may not be widespread, as it is in English and American common law. A worse legal concept is called ex post facto, I think, meaning that after the fact, they pass a law that makes a prior activity a crime that you have already committed.

I give up, trying to interpret Thai educational law like US income tax law, literally. It gives me a brain ache.

[otherstuff1957]

The act is dated 17 June, 2006. So teachers who had licenses from June 2003 & onwards and applied for TCT licenses within 120 days of that date might (possibly) be grandfathered.

For the rest of us, who didn't even hear about this act until 2007 or 2008, Grandfather seems to be deceased.

[PeaceBlondie]

The act is dated 17 June, 2006. So teachers who had licenses from June 2003 & onwards and applied for TCT licenses within 120 days of that date might (possibly) be grandfathered.

For the rest of us, who didn't even hear about this act until 2007 or 2008, Grandfather seems to be deceased.

That proves a point: either they never intended to give a free license to veteran farang teachers here, or they dropped the ball and forgot to notify us. I have been reading these farang ajarn forums since 2003, and if there was any notice within that 120-day period, it wasn't obvious, or it was published in Thai or Magyar. The very Thai muckety-mucks who are in charge of licensing farang, don't bother to tell us until we have to take their ridiculous test.

Lovely country, Thailand. Nice people in many ways, the Thais. Lousy place to teach English to Thai students, though, unless you pay your dues for several years, get lucky, and pay more for 'teaching courses' than you paid for three years of visa runs.

[culicine]

The act is dated 17 June, 2006. So teachers who had licenses from June 2003 & onwards and applied for TCT licenses within 120 days of that date might (possibly) be grandfathered.

For the rest of us, who didn't even hear about this act until 2007 or 2008, Grandfather seems to be deceased.

That proves a point: either they never intended to give a free license to veteran farang teachers here, or they dropped the ball and forgot to notify us. I have been reading these farang ajarn forums since 2003, and if there was any notice within that 120-day period, it wasn't obvious, or it was published in Thai or Magyar. The very Thai muckety-mucks who are in charge of licensing farang, don't bother to tell us until we have to take their ridiculous test.

Lovely country, Thailand. Nice people in many ways, the Thais. Lousy place to teach English to Thai students, though, unless you pay your dues for several years, get lucky, and pay more for 'teaching courses' than you paid for three years of visa runs.

Yes this certainly seems the way. There was a law (and a grace period) and noone knew about it!! Or did they...There was mention of this a while back at my school, but I still think this was after the grace period expired. PB I agree they didn't want any farang grandfathered under this system, or so it seems. I guess 10 years teaching their children doesn't count for anything, though a green newbie with a BEd (and many Philipinos also) can get their new TL without a problem. It would seem, now, that the exams are too difficult, and I see it being watered down, or the TCT rules changed (unless they really want most farang teachers to leave LoS).

[PeaceBlondie]

culicine, I doubt the TCT bigwigs sit there and say aloud, "Let's get rid of the White teachers." We barely appear on their radar after they have their afternoon snack. They formulate plans for certifying Thai teachers (their main job at TCT, I guess). Then, perhaps as an afterthought they say. "Oh, and for the non-Thai speakers, let's ask Juan or Dimitri to translate our most excellent Thai test into Engrit. Where do we go for dinner?"

[bgood]

I'm not sure how but the school I was teaching at, when they first started to talk about the Thai Culture Course/collect 500B per teacher, somehow knew about the exemption for teachers who had held a license prior to June 2003. They asked me for a copy of my first TL (2001) and submitted that along with one other teacher's pre 2003 license.

The message came back, through the school, that our original licences remained valid for ever. I didn't see the notification, and I can't read Thai anyway, but I trust the admin at the international school in Bangkok that I was working for.

I'm retired now so I have no way to back this up. The other exempt teacher I mentioned has left Thailand and of all the teachers I know working in Thailand I haven't heard of any others who recieved exemptions. I think there must be some. I'll try to make contact with some of the long termers I know and find out what their position is.

[PeaceBlondie]

Ah yes, that old 500 baht teacher's license hattrick! Outside of the international school circuit, that was hailed or condemned as the biggest scam of 500 baht in recent history. But yes, a few scattered responders did say they got some kind of certificate, which might have exempted them. From what little I understand aboutf teachers at international schools, they are usually so overqualified (B.Ed, PGCE, certified in the West) that they are exempt from those courses.

I need to ask about this during interviews in the coming weeks. I bet I get many different answers.

[bgood]

^ My point was that at a large school with many foreign teachers only two received exemptions. The rest, apart from a few Thai teachers, are required to do the Thai culture course.

[culicine]

^ My point was that at a large school with many foreign teachers only two received exemptions. The rest, apart from a few Thai teachers, are required to do the Thai culture course.

How did the foerigners get exemptions from the culture course (or do you mean the TCT exams?). As far as I know, no foreigner would be exempt from the culture course. Thais don't have to do it, ofcourse, but if they don't have teaching qualifications, they must also sit the Thai equivalent of the TCT exams.

[bgood]

"How did the foerigners get exemptions from the culture course?"

In my case, and the case of one other teacher, we were given exemptions because we had held TLs prior to June 2003.

All teachers at the school are required to have teaching qualifications in their home country and are therefore not required to take the TCT exams.