Warning against disrupting Olympic torch relay in Bangkok

[Naam]

I am a guest in this country. I make my living in this country. But I am not a citizen. Yes, there are things about Thailand which frustrate me, but it my choice to stay or leave.

And as a guest, I do not think it is my place to protest anything like the Chinese torch relay. The Thai government wants a peaceful relay--and if I want to stay here, I need to comply. That seems reasonable to me. In my home country, I have all the rights in the world to protest as I please. but not in another country. And this is not related to Thailand. I would not protest in any other country either. A protest should be a reflection of the population of that nation's or region's views on a matter, not the views of foreign visitors.

words of wisdom!

[Maestro]

Anybody wondering why a particular post was deleted should please reflect upon whether that post was on the topic of the original post in this thread.

There is a forum called "Southeast Asia Forum" but it obviously does not include China. ThaiVisa also does not have a separate forum for China. Therefore, I'm afraid Thaivisa does not offer an outlet for members to discuss the riots in Tibet, political or religious events in China, etc. ThaiVisa is a lot of things but not a political discussion forum covering the entire world.

For posts about the Olympic games per se, please see if there is already a topic in the Sports forum about what you would like to say, otherwise feel free to start your own topic in that forum.

If it is important for anybody to have a copy of his/her deleted post please send me a PM and I shall dig into the trash can for it (but I may not be free to reply at a moment's notice)

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Maestro

[astral]

Sorry - let's keep it on topic - what about if my two daughters with Thai citizenship but looking a bit farangish were to protest and I was there to look after them - they couldn't deport us could they?What about a Thai/Chinese protester? What about a Chinese protester? Does a protester have to be 100% alien to get deported?

Yes, this pronouncement is a real bag of legal and political worms..............

[stanley2550]

Worse things in this world could happen to you than being "Black Listed" from Thailand. There is nothing so special about Thailand.

Pretty women and good beer can be found all over asia. This ain't the only show in town.

[Maestro]

What time is the torch run starting?

At 3 pm on Saturday, it seems, according to the news article in the OP. No guarantee, though, that this report is accurate or that no change could be made.

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Maestro

[Maestro]

From the Bangkok Post:

...Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama denied foreigners protesting at the Olympic torch relay on Saturday will be deported, but said they could fact legal problems...

Somehow I doubt the it will be within the authority or responsibility of the Foreign Ministry to make this decision.

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Maestro

[WISteve]

...I do not think it is my place to protest anything like the Chinese torch relay. The Thai government wants a peaceful relay--and if I want to stay here, I need to comply. That seems reasonable to me...

Yes, my sentiments as well.

The prudent thing to do when you are guest in another nation (and unless you have permanent residency you are always a guest) is to abide by the instructions of the authorities.

Peaceful dissent may have it's place, but disrupting the ceremonies in Thailand is not an option for a foreign citizen. Behave stupidly or illegally in Thailand and you SHOULD be subject to arrest.

I don't believe this is anything new or different, just a blunt reminder that you should stay out of trouble or suffer the consequences.

~WISteve

[Maestro]

Video report on cnn.com about the Olympic torch relay in Bangkok:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/200...ref=videosearch

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Maestro

[dinom]

Agreed that a lot of answers and comments didn't really match with the topic, but to try to understand the possible harsh legal actions from Thailand's officials against any disturbances makes one think about the real reasons behind that!

Please don't close this topic before letting us know about the outcome of the event....

[thaibebop]

The Olympics is about sports, not politics

...and human rights huggers should first look what's going on in their home countries (or what human rights the politicians their home countries "introduce" on other countries).

This is a very good point. American is a good place to live but it is not perfect and I wonder at the long list of things that have hurt us and yet people who feel so compelled to help others didn't do much when Katrina hit, aren't paying attention to the amount of prisons we have built and who is going in them, don't work at soup kitchens and so forth, yet when a group of people half the world over gets into trouble, they are quick to make a sign and stand on a street corner screaming slogans. I think it's to be cool and worldly.

[Maestro]

...possible harsh legal actions from Thailand's officials against any disturbances...

It was really ugly what happened with the torch relay in some other countries and it is perhaps understandable that Thailand – and other countries – try to avoid a repetition of it. Let us hope that there will be no violence at the Bangkok relay.

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Maestro

[thaibebop]

Agreed that a lot of answers and comments didn't really match with the topic, but to try to understand the possible harsh legal actions from Thailand's officials against any disturbances makes one think about the real reasons behind that!

Please don't close this topic before letting us know about the outcome of the event....

Having seen how some of these protests have gotten out of hand and how crazy the mob for the Free Tibet cause can be I really can't blame the Kingdom for not wanting that mess in their capital.

[Maestro]

Having seen how some of these protests have gotten out of hand and how crazy the mob...can be I really can't blame the Kingdom for not wanting that mess in their capital.

The Olympic torch relay can and should be a beautiful and peaceful event in the involved locations. It is a pity that sometimes other organisations abuse it to gain media attention. Talking about “how crazy the mob can be” I can’t help wondering whether such organisation’s bosses sitting in their ivory tower send brainwashed foot soldiers to sacrifice themselves.

I see the warning of harsh punishment in the news report as a warning shot by the Thai authorities to foreign organisations to keep their protesters away from Thailand or at least to reign them in. I would feel sorry for anybody who is spurned to violent actions and gets punished for it while the organisation bosses bask in the media limelight. It just doesn’t seem right.

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Maestro

[rainman]

That's the true spirit of these Olympics. When people who want to go see the torch relay don't attend because they fear they will be arrested and deported. Well done, China.

[Maestro]

I believe that should have been "well done, Thailand", as we are talking about the torch relay in Bangkok and a warning issued by the Thai police. And I do hope that people intent on causing violence will not attend.

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Maestro

[younghusband]

Having seen how some of these protests have gotten out of hand and how crazy the mob...can be I really can't blame the Kingdom for not wanting that mess in their capital.

The Olympic torch relay can and should be a beautiful and peaceful event in the involved locations. It is a pity that sometimes other organisations abuse it to gain media attention. Talking about “how crazy the mob can be” I can’t help wondering whether such organisation’s bosses sitting in their ivory tower send brainwashed foot soldiers to sacrifice themselves.

I see the warning of harsh punishment in the news report as a warning shot by the Thai authorities to foreign organisations to keep their protesters away from Thailand or at least to reign them in. I would feel sorry for anybody who is spurned to violent actions and gets punished for it while the organisation bosses bask in the media limelight. It just doesn’t seem right.

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Maestro

There is something very troubling about your post.Given the atrocious and murderous behaviour of the Chinese Government how can you possibly argue that the torch relay is a "beautiful and peaceful event" <slanderous comment removed>? Who exactly are you referring to when you speak of organizations bosses sitting in ivory towers, the Dalai Lama pehaps? Your suggestion in any event that protestors are being manipulated doesn't have any basis in fact.As for the Dalai Lama he is the one person that emerges from this sorry affair with enhanced moral authority.Of course protesters should make their opinon known without violence - but like the Thai authorities you seem vague whether peaceful protest will be permitted.Your position is frankly untenable and no doubt you regard the admirable ML Marisa -who withdrew from the disgusting torch bearing charade- as a dupe.I suggest with all due respect it's time for you to do some hard thinking about the ambiguities of your position.

Edited April 19, 2008 by Maestro

[sriracha john]

Set to rumble

Police raid Buddhist organisation in bid to preempt demonstrations

As many as 100 pro-Tibet protesters are gathering today outside the United Nations headquarters in Bangkok. The controversial Olympic-torch relay takes place this afternoon. The demonstrators are protesting at human-rights violations by China in Tibet.

They complain the police earlier raided the local offices of the International Network of Engaged Buddhists, a group supported by the Dalai Lama, four times.

The protesters, both local and foreign, met on Thursday night and spent two hours planning what to do in case of a police crackdown today.

Another group, Free Tibet Network, insists its demonstration will be peaceful and will spotlight China's crimes against Tibetans and its support of oppressive regimes in other countries, including Burma.

It and others will gather outside the UN building at 3pm, the same time as the torch relay begins in Yaowarat in Chinatown.

The Buddhist networks ask locals and foreigners to show up and express solidarity with Tibet's right to self-determination. They denounce China as the "evil empire".

Foreigners appear unfazed by police threats to deport them if they join in, saying they are determined to let the world know people in this country care about Tibet.

"We recognise the dangers. We understand we don't have the protection of the Constitution, but it doesn't mean we cannot invoke international law [for the right to peaceful assembly]," says a Filipino resident, who asked not to be named.

Ethnic Tibetans with Indian passports decided not to join, after the police deportation threats.

"Tibetans [in Thailand] are being restricted. These people no longer have a country to call their own, and they're told not to speak, so what else do you want them to do?" asks Ploychomphu, a Thai national with Tibetan friends in Thailand.

One man says today's protest is as much about China's human-rights record and setting a benchmark for acceptable state behaviour, not just in China but in Thailand, too.

"It's about setting a standard, and we should also aim at Thailand's [human rights]."

- Daily XPress (today)

[sriracha john]

It's so fortunate that Thailand has such a well-spoken Prime Minister to represent it to the world...

Both police, protesters prepare for torch's run in Thailand

BANGKOK, Thailand -- The prime minister said Friday that Thais should be honored the Olympic torch is passing through their country and protesters would be "crazy and unreasonable" to disrupt the relay.

The torch arrived in the morning under tight security and was quickly whisked to a luxury hotel.

The police and military have been ordered to secure the relay to prevent disruptions from protesters of China's human rights record.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said his government was certain it could provide adequate security, but he also lashed out at anyone who may disrupt the relay.

"Whoever tries to destroy the flame is crazy and unreasonable," he told reporters. "Why would anyone protest in Thailand? Why don't they protest in China?"

- Associated Press (today)

[taxexile]

The torch arrived in the morning under tight security and was quickly whisked to a luxury hotel.

[sriracha john]

Additionally from the Associated Press...

Bangkok Metropolitan Police Chief Asawin Kwanmuang said more than 1,000 uniformed and plainclothes police officers, along with hundreds of other crowd control and security personnel, would be deployed at Saturday's event.

"We have also asked officials to make sure there are no anti-China signs and banners on buildings in the area and to see that people don't gather in small alleyways near the route to cause disturbances," he said.

A police helicopter will follow overhead as police motorcycles ride beside runners. Police vans will also follow along in case the athletes need to jump inside for safety, he said.

Authorities warned that any foreign activists who try to disrupt the event will be deported.

[Thai at Heart]

Set to rumble

Police raid Buddhist organisation in bid to preempt demonstrations

As many as 100 pro-Tibet protesters are gathering today outside the United Nations headquarters in Bangkok. The controversial Olympic-torch relay takes place this afternoon. The demonstrators are protesting at human-rights violations by China in Tibet.

They complain the police earlier raided the local offices of the International Network of Engaged Buddhists, a group supported by the Dalai Lama, four times.

The protesters, both local and foreign, met on Thursday night and spent two hours planning what to do in case of a police crackdown today.

Another group, Free Tibet Network, insists its demonstration will be peaceful and will spotlight China's crimes against Tibetans and its support of oppressive regimes in other countries, including Burma.

It and others will gather outside the UN building at 3pm, the same time as the torch relay begins in Yaowarat in Chinatown.

The Buddhist networks ask locals and foreigners to show up and express solidarity with Tibet's right to self-determination. They denounce China as the "evil empire".

Foreigners appear unfazed by police threats to deport them if they join in, saying they are determined to let the world know people in this country care about Tibet.

"We recognise the dangers. We understand we don't have the protection of the Constitution, but it doesn't mean we cannot invoke international law [for the right to peaceful assembly]," says a Filipino resident, who asked not to be named.

Ethnic Tibetans with Indian passports decided not to join, after the police deportation threats.

"Tibetans [in Thailand] are being restricted. These people no longer have a country to call their own, and they're told not to speak, so what else do you want them to do?" asks Ploychomphu, a Thai national with Tibetan friends in Thailand.

One man says today's protest is as much about China's human-rights record and setting a benchmark for acceptable state behaviour, not just in China but in Thailand, too.

"It's about setting a standard, and we should also aim at Thailand's [human rights]."

- Daily XPress (today)

Quite incredible in a buddhist country, to see buddhist policemen under the guise of government, cracking down on buddhist organisations that will have majority buddhist protestors from protesting the oppression of buddhists to protect the face of communists.

[garro]

There is a lot of injustice in the world, but I do often think that the time some people spend demonstrating would be better spent trying to improve their own life. After all a lot of the anger at these demonstrations is often due to frustrations in the demonstrators own personal life and less to do with the injustice they claim to be angry with. Wouldn't there time be far better spent doing some charity work, perhaps tackling injustice on their own street. I suppose you can't really blame them. We live in a time when whole countries are more interested in fixing the immorality in countries on the other side of the globe rather than dealing with their own moral failures.

[Kerryd]

"Whoever tries to destroy the flame is crazy and unreasonable," he told reporters. "Why would anyone protest in Thailand? Why don't they protest in China?"

It makes sense that even at the top, he also does not have any worldly knowledge outside of the Siam universe. Where was he educated? I once asked the gf if she ever heard of Tianamen Square. Reply, "Who's that?"

I have no plans to travel to Bkk, especially during Songkran, to see something so meaningless as the Olympic Torch, so I should be safe (unless they change the route unexpectedly and it ends up in South Pattaya. Not likely as the flame would be doused as fast as they could light it !).

As for protestors. I remember the big controversy when Suharto was in Canada for the APEC conference. Lots of dedicated, committed, angry people lined up to protest, some with violent intent on their minds.

NOT ONE OF THEM had the balls to go Indonesia and protest his policies there. Sure, it's easy to protest when you can do it from a place of (relative) safety. You can talk a great fight and then go home and watch football on the telly, thinking that you've made a difference in the world.

The students in Tianamen Square did have the balls, and yes, a lot of them paid the ultimate price. But their sacrifice is remembered around the world, and I have no doubt the most senior levels of the Chinese gov't have had that in their minds ever since.

But some minor little protests by (well meaning) people, far from Chinese soil ? Won't cause more than the tiniest bit of concern. The slight tarnish that this may cause China's image will largely be forgotten by the time the opening ceremonies are over. Once the Games themselves are over, it will be back to business as per normal.

No country wants to be embarassed on the international stage. China doesn't, but feels it can brush these protests off as a minor irritant. Thailand, like so many other countries we've seen recently, is going to great lengths to avoid embarrassment as well, hence the threats of deportation or other legal troubles.

It's not about trying to appease China.

It's about avoiding embarrassment to Thailand.

[Maestro]

...how can you possibly argue that the torch relay is a "beautiful and peaceful event"...

"...can and should be...", I said, and that "It was really ugly what happened with the torch relay in some other countries...Let us hope that there will be no violence at the Bangkok relay"

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Maestro

[younghusband]

...how can you possibly argue that the torch relay is a "beautiful and peaceful event"...

"...can and should be...", I said, and that "It was really ugly what happened with the torch relay in some other countries...Let us hope that there will be no violence at the Bangkok relay"

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Maestro

What was particularly ugly was the behaviour of the Chinese security contingent as Lord Sebastian Coe,Olympic Icon, pointed out in very widely reported remarks.

[Maestro]

I googled it just now. Foreigners trying to disrupt the torch relay in London. Something that the Thai police reportedly is trying to prevent. Let’s hope there will be no violence at the Bangkok relay.

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Maestro

[Crash999]

There is a lot of injustice in the world, but I do often think that the time some people spend demonstrating would be better spent trying to improve their own life. After all a lot of the anger at these demonstrations is often due to frustrations in the demonstrators own personal life and less to do with the injustice they claim to be angry with. Wouldn't there time be far better spent doing some charity work, perhaps tackling injustice on their own street. I suppose you can't really blame them. We live in a time when whole countries are more interested in fixing the immorality in countries on the other side of the globe rather than dealing with their own moral failures.

Well said.

It's interesting to see which causes folks choose to support. Tibet is a very cuddly cause with monks, mountains, and a Brad Pitt movie. All feels very nice and warm against China- a communist country whose main claim to fame in recent years is manufacturing things that tend to break easily.

I wonder if the protesters sincerely want Tibet to return to its traditional system of feudalism and serfdom (slavery). Do they acknowledge and choose to ignore the history of China and Tibet dating back to the Mongol Empire. Perhaps they are fervent supporters of the CIA and it's cold war policies against communism that started the Tibetan independence movement. And surely they are not from other countries that have annexed territories from natives who are still trying to get their land back.

In the end it becomes one of many fashion causes- in the public eye today and forgotten not long after the Olympics finishes. After all, there are more important things in the world to be concerned with, like Britney's latest antics- wow!

[jasonslater]

I agree this the member that says Keep Politics and Sports apart. Our rights should be upheld for Peaceful Protests under this should be a basic human right, but the Human Rights Act 1998 and the european convention on human rights do not this a law other than Great Britain and Europe.

And not being familiar with Thai Laws, I would have to stay well clear of any trouble, the risks of Protesters disrupting the Olympic-torch relay and being arrested immediately and prosecuted for public disturbance, and apparently any Foreigners will be expelled and banned from returning and those with residency will have it revoked permanently. Seems a too higher risk for many of us, no matter of our political views!

Most foreigners who are lucky enough to gain residency in the kingdom know how difficult it was from them to be granted such a thing, and the others who don't have to obey the visa rules.

Lets just wait and see what happens.

[jstumbo]

So let me get this straight. They will not arrest people for protesting just for disrupting the torch relay. And they are removing any signs and banners that are anti-chinese. So you can protest, but are not allowed any signs or banners?

[dinom]

3:00 pm, showtime. Let's watch on tele.............