Judgement Call

[intumult]

Strange.

To be out with the g/f and to be seen to be out with the g/f, who then gets tired so I took her home and was back in the pub in under 10 minutes but then have 3 Thai guys start to talk and be extremely 'friendly' with lots of touching of the arm and body but not anywhere untoward. These guys wanting to dance with me. Seeming a little too friendly.

Being hetrosexual, it rankles a bit. Maybe it is OK for some Europeans who hug their fellow men and kiss cheeks and all that sh*t

Does this sort of thing happen often here?

Seems to me it can be an awkward judgement call to know if someone is genuinely happy to meet and be friendly with a Farang or if they have other motives.

I will admit to feeling safe enough. Both within myself and in my own abilities to ward off any untoward advances and aslo knowing I was in a place where they know me well enough and care enough to intervene.

But it is that uncomfortable feeling of touch and outward shows of physical contact from other males. Or am I being paranoid and a bit too hetrosexual? Being brought up by parents with Victorian values may not help, I do not know.

[rixalex]

Strange.

To be out with the g/f and to be seen to be out with the g/f, who then gets tired so I took her home and was back in the pub in under 10 minutes but then have 3 Thai guys start to talk and be extremely 'friendly' with lots of touching of the arm and body but not anywhere untoward. These guys wanting to dance with me. Seeming a little too friendly.

Being hetrosexual, it rankles a bit. Maybe it is OK for some Europeans who hug their fellow men and kiss cheeks and all that sh*t

Does this sort of thing happen often here?

Seems to me it can be an awkward judgement call to know if someone is genuinely happy to meet and be friendly with a Farang or if they have other motives.

I will admit to feeling safe enough. Both within myself and in my own abilities to ward off any untoward advances and aslo knowing I was in a place where they know me well enough and care enough to intervene.

But it is that uncomfortable feeling of touch and outward shows of physical contact from other males. Or am I being paranoid and a bit too hetrosexual? Being brought up by parents with Victorian values may not help, I do not know.

I've had this sort of thing, like when you meet taking your hand and then holding on to it as you chat, or resting their hand on your leg when you sit together. To be the fair these men weren't complete strangers, but local drinking buddies who i saw regularly. It is really weird and it did freak me out to begin with. Although i'll never be comfortable with it, i've come to accept that it's a culture thing with no other meaning other than a show of friendship. That said, if the hand starts to creep up your leg i'd say you've probably got problems - or not depending on your inclination!

[backflip]

"I being paranoid.."

Yes, you be paranoid. A simple "no thanks", or "I'm not a fellow traveler" will suffice. Yelling at the top of your lungs, "I'm not GAY, for gosh sakes, keep your <deleted>' hands to yourselves" is a little over the top.

[Thai at Heart]

Strange.

To be out with the g/f and to be seen to be out with the g/f, who then gets tired so I took her home and was back in the pub in under 10 minutes but then have 3 Thai guys start to talk and be extremely 'friendly' with lots of touching of the arm and body but not anywhere untoward. These guys wanting to dance with me. Seeming a little too friendly.

Being hetrosexual, it rankles a bit. Maybe it is OK for some Europeans who hug their fellow men and kiss cheeks and all that sh*t

Does this sort of thing happen often here?

Seems to me it can be an awkward judgement call to know if someone is genuinely happy to meet and be friendly with a Farang or if they have other motives.

I will admit to feeling safe enough. Both within myself and in my own abilities to ward off any untoward advances and aslo knowing I was in a place where they know me well enough and care enough to intervene.

But it is that uncomfortable feeling of touch and outward shows of physical contact from other males. Or am I being paranoid and a bit too hetrosexual? Being brought up by parents with Victorian values may not help, I do not know.

Careful, men will be offering a neck rub while you take a pee next. That freaked me out.

[JetsetBkk]

Strange.

To be out with the g/f and to be seen to be out with the g/f, who then gets tired so I took her home and was back in the pub in under 10 minutes but then have 3 Thai guys start to talk and be extremely 'friendly'...

Perhaps they thought you'd dumped the g/f to try your luck with them?

BTW, nobody touches me who I don't want to touch me.

[naka]

Never happens to me ... but there again I have that 'look' about me.

It does come in handy though when getting unwanted attention, when all I want is a nice cold beer

Naka.

Edited April 27, 2008 by naka

[Scott]

Yeah, it's very frustrating. Being gay, I get all excited at some of the touching from the nice young men--Ok even the not so nice young men--only to find out that's all it was!

So, a lot of it is cultural and for those of us from the West, it's confusing--no matter which side of the fence your on. That said, there are a number of things you can do. First, make sure you are sitting where touching you is not easy. Nothing wrong with getting up and moving and making sure you have some physical distance between you and them. Most Thai guys are just a little too uncomfortable to be touching foreigners, unless they are quite drunk, but then they are pretty harmless.

People are very astute to who can and cannot be touched. Set your boundaries, nicely. You seem like a good guy and I can see why these guys might be a bit more friendly with you than you wanted.

[hanibal7]

Wish i had that look about me hehehehehhe.thats funnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

what look is that then,pray tell me.

[kat]

I think it is just a SEA cultural gesture to convey comfort and friendship. I think it is more prevalent among same-sex friendships, since traditional values and social norms were/are more restrictive between male and female social interactions.

Admittedly, as a Western person, if I were a heterosexual male I would definitely draw the cultural line with getting my neck rubbed while at the urinal. I can understand how open signs of affection (holding hands, hand on the leg, etc.) between male friends could be a bit jarring for a Western, heterosexual males. It is one of those cultural differences that cut to the core of your physical and mental comfort level at the same time.

As a Western female, from a very warm household of Caribbean descent, I found it absolutely adorable and endearing the way my Burmese and Thai female friends and would hold my hand while walking or crossing the street, to convey their affection and care. It put me immediately at ease, because my ethnic background also uses touch in the same way, and I found that I could communicate across language and cultural barriers in Thailand with women with just that shared language of warmth and friendship. However, I think there is definitely a class/status basis to this, as with everything in Thailand.

Most of the time it was with Burmese or Thai women that knew me very well or were in the same social context with me, or with women who were vendors on the sidewalk with whom I had daily contact, and were conveying a motherly type of touch. I have been felt up by a couple of young bar girls though, lol, which was a little invasive, but it isn't meant offensively there but more like a compliment so you take it with a laugh.

But yes, touch is a whole other language in SEA in addition to the spoken ones.

[a2396]

Thais touching each other in public? I thought this a major no, no. Does this mean I can hold hands with my Thai GF now? Male to male OK? Female to Female OK? Female to Male or Male to Female, not OK? Figure that out.

[backflip]

Your GF gets ill, and you go back to the bar to troll for other women? Classy!

[huggybear]

and you go back to the bar to troll for other women? Classy!

Where did you get that from?

Sounds to me like the OP went back to drain a couple more beers.........no where is it mentioned he's looking for a new gal.

I think for western males, a slap on the back, or a playful punch to the shoulder is about as much male to male contact as we want. Unless its a Dad or brother or really good friend that you haven't seen for a long time then o.k., hug-up, no worries.

Men at a bar touching your leg? Neck rub at the urinal? That's gay. Run my friend, RUN !

[a2396]

and you go back to the bar to troll for other women? Classy!

Where did you get that from?

Sounds to me like the OP went back to drain a couple more beers.........no where is it mentioned he's looking for a new gal.

I think for western males, a slap on the back, or a playful punch to the shoulder is about as much male to male contact as we want. Unless its a Dad or brother or really good friend that you haven't seen for a long time then o.k., hug-up, no worries.

Men at a bar touching your leg? Neck rub at the urinal? That's gay. Run my friend, RUN !

I had a neck rub (attempted) at a couple of restrooms in China, by the attendant. Nothing Gay about it. He expected a tip & was a common thing, I guess. Hand on the thigh? Another matter.

[peter991]

I had a similar problem when I first arrived in Thailand. Being gay, I was amazed at the number of Thai guys with their arms around each other's necks; one guy laying down resting - and another guy resting his head on the first guy's stomach ...

Is Thailand TOTALLY gay was my first thought. Then I did some research and found out it's just a cultural thing. As a previous poster said, the most interaction 2 straight Western guys will show is punching one another in the shoulder or a hefty slap on the back.

Having said that, a former Thai partner once asked me if I liked any of the (remote Issan) village guys. I carefully replied that more than a few of them were 'cute.' He said I could have who-ever I liked ... not that they were gay ... but a couple of bottles of Leo at our house and they were 'free.'

Thai guys don't have that macho/straight sexuality hang-up Western guys have drummed into them from birth by family and religion. Thai ladies (outside entertainment areas) tend to be a lot more shy than Western ladies the same age.

To the original poster - please bear these points in mind. As these are regular drinking buddies, they know you are in a relationship - so I would say they are just being (perhaps a bit overly) friendly.

Peter

[YoungFarang13]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Edited April 28, 2008 by YoungFarang13

[TheDon]

lol

[intumult]

Your GF gets ill, and you go back to the bar to troll for other women? Classy!

WHERE did you get that from??? As others have said. Simply because the g/f was tired and I took her home, I am going back for others? I would like some of what you are smoking.

As it is, the g/f trusts me to go back when she wishes to retire early and the 'attentions' of the Thai males in question has nothing at all to do with me looking for or wanting other women.

As to the other posts, I am glad I am not the only one who feels uncomfortable with the 'hand on the leg' and wondering where it is heading to next

As it is, I am happy to talk to any Thai who starts a conversation, as I feel it is the way to move forward and also to be friendly. I see too many Farang who seem ignorant and refuse to speak to our Thai hosts. I am just uncomfortable at times with the way they show their 'friendship'.

How else are we to build relationships and friendships unless we come out of our shells and talk to the Thai people?

Knowledge is a wonderful thing and now I understand it is not just me and that it happens to others, I may be able to accept the 'Thai Way' a little easier, though not neccesarily any more comfortably.

[geriatrickid]

You must be one hannsum man if you can get the boys all excited like that.

My 2 closest friends here are gay and they never touch me. The only signs of affection I ever get from them is when they crash at my place and fart. Even when we hit a gay club, none of the gays ever hit on me. Maybe I'm the kind of guy that a homo has nightmares about finding in his bed, whereas you are Grade A carnal delight? Take it as a compliment I guess.

A couple weeks ago I made the mistake of walking down Bangla Rd and was set upon by a really skanky night stalker who was only programmed to say "Ok we go your place now" as she dug her nails into my arm. She finally let go after I dragged her a few meters. Of course my homo bodyguards found it quite funny as they said, maybe now you can get laid with someone your own age and stop bothering our girlfriends. (doesn't happen anyways, the bostards). So, yea, count your blessings. At least these guys probably didn't have cooties or rotted brown and black teeth.

[klikster]

I found the hand holding among friends a little uncomfortable until I remembered being a kid. Kids don't have the "I gotta be macho" attitude. They are friends, buddies ..

I remember holding hands with my friends, walking with arms around necks ..

And no, I'm not gay.

In the family, we (men included) hugged and kissed on the cheek .. because we truly loved each other.

And no, I'm not French.

Too bad the way gestures are perceived in the modern macho testosterone driven world. You can slap a guy on the back .. or if you're a jock, you can slap his butt .. but don't dare touch his hand.

[morrobay]

Three Thai guys touching you in the bar ??

I would have been out of there in a New York second.

End of story.

[tuky]

It is quite common for Asian men to hold hands, lie with each other and generally be in close physical contact with each other.

The first time I encountered it I was repulsed, but eventually I found myself holding hands with the Bangladeshi (for example) who was holding my hand out of friendship, as hard as it is for most of us it is quite innocent on their part.

It was mentioned earlier that this is a SEA trait but I tend to disagree with that and say it appears from my experiences to be more a central/western asian thing.

Then, there are western folks like myself who unknowingly tend to be more touchy feely after a few drinks, I am as hetero as the next bloke but I do find that when intoxicated I tend to use touch as a form of expression, I see no harm in it but unfortunately male and/or female can tend to take it the wrong way, hence the right angle that my nose has taken on

[Cuban]

3 Thai guys start to talk and be extremely 'friendly' with lots of touching of the arm and body but not anywhere untoward.

As others have said people of the same or opposing sex arm touching is a common friendship re-enforcement body language tatic. I have only encountered that here with Thai men that I know quite well already and from one gay Thai man that I have known for many years. This touching is always carried out in a manly way - firm and not too gentle and not too long. If the touch lasts longer that say 5 seconds and ends in a gentle squeeze I might suggest he wants more than conversation?

These guys wanting to dance with me.

Guys dancing together - alert bells ringing - time to finish your drink and place money in your drink's bin. Karaoke is much more common as a group/friend bonding activity and takes place in the open with food and lots of drink - I suggest you avoid small dark rooms with your new friends.

Seeming a little too friendly.

If you are still there at this point - you are well on your way to needing to explain your actions to your OH - but Thai grapevine commincations are swift - she probably already knows.