Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose

[Scott]

There are two parts to the word 'investment' (to my way of thinking). One involves risk, and the other involves return. I think buying the girlfriend involves a whole lot of the first and almost nothing of the second.

[a2396]

Let's say a non-Thai person gives money to their boy or girlfriend to buy a home.

Is this considered investing in Thailand?

Some might consider it such. In many cases it is a gift. You forgot to mention husband or wife. Marriage is an investment. Is it not?

[Jangot]

8 years ago I bought a house in my wife's name, and "invested" more than just the money.

Since then I have had a great deal in return - none of it quantifiable on paper.

Caution and cynicism is good, but not so that it poisons your existance.

J.

[Marvo]

Caution and cynicism is good, but not so that it poisons your existance.

Here here Jangot!

[Travel2003]

I invested all my cash in the states cause its got the strongest economy in the world,

Did you invest in "housing"/realestate?

[Lickey]

This phrase "Never spend/invest more than you can walk away from" comes up in every marriage/house/farm/shop/pick-up truck" ect ect on all the forums on TV, it grates on me same as "at the end of the day" and "having said that" and 'thats my two satangs worth'

Why are people so money oreintated? Have you found the love of your life here in Thai or do you have doubts? do you need money back home because you dont trust your GF or wife?if things do go tits up, dont you have family you could stay with back home?

Spend what you want when you want if you have it to spend, make your life comfortable today, Tommorow is promised to no one and funeral garments dont have pockets.

[pampal]

Never invest more than you can lose, anywhere

[jumnien]

Generally, the investments I've made in Thailand have done well over the last 8 years, not incredible, but good. The strengthening of the baht has been the icing on the cake.

[Austhaied]

If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand.

Come here with a big fortune.

[Tomkagai]

I invested all my cash in the states cause its got the strongest economy in the world,

I wonder if China knows about this ?....few more years and the Chinese will own most of the US anyway...

[bendix]

I invested all my cash in the states cause its got the strongest economy in the world,

:D

Jeffrey, I think it's time to leave Pattaya. You're developing a case of 'Pattaya-brain'.

[Gary A]

Obviously there are still those who are optimists and who end up broke with no where to go. Don't put all your eggs in one basket comes to mind. Other than a condo in YOUR name, I can't think of anything else that is safe.

I love my wife, but to put everything I have in a house in her name? Not a chance.

A young man can afford to take a chance because he can always make more money. My working day are in the past and no way can I take a chance on losing it all. I am astounded at how naive some people are.

[TAWP]

Some here might be interested in a bridge?

[Naam]

I invested all my cash in the states cause its got the strongest economy in the world,

:D

Jeffrey, I think it's time to leave Pattaya. You're developing a case of 'Pattaya-brain'.

a "pattaya-brain" can only develop if a brain exists

[Sir Burr]

Never invest more than you can lose, anywhere

A good philosophy for mediocre returns.

I never go into any investment with this attitude. I don't aim to lose a single cent.

There are hundreds of foreigners that have made fortunes, here and in other countries, that wouldn't have got anywhere if they had listened to that advice.

I would say the best thing to ask yourself is "Do I have the knowledge to invest here?"

[qwertz]

Never invest more than you can lose, anywhere

A good philosophy for mediocre returns.

I never go into any investment with this attitude. I don't aim to lose a single cent.

There are hundreds of foreigners that have made fortunes, here and in other countries, that wouldn't have got anywhere if they had listened to that advice.

I would say the best thing to ask yourself is "Do I have the knowledge to invest here?"

Good point SB.

And no amount of advice from the knowledgeable will help in many cases.

The sad thing about advice is that because it often costs nothing - that's what people think it's worth.

[Briggsy]

I voted for 'other'.

Very often, people are trying to warn more naive others that the regulatory safeguards (that we in Europe have come to take for granted in our nanny states) do not exist or are much much weaker here. The best example is the belief that the rule of law is paramount. That is not always the case here.

[gzu88bv]

Obviously there are still those who are optimists and who end up broke with no where to go. Don't put all your eggs in one basket comes to mind. Other than a condo in YOUR name, I can't think of anything else that is safe.

I love my wife, but to put everything I have in a house in her name? Not a chance.

A young man can afford to take a chance because he can always make more money. My working day are in the past and no way can I take a chance on losing it all. I am astounded at how naive some people are.

Very well put. You just speak my mind and it seems to me that you have learned a little bit more than average over time.

[sgunn65]

I am one of the fool hardy people who have invested my life savings in a business here. Is it more than I can afford? Well if the business goes down I will lose my life savings so I would have to start again but I would still have my health and ability to earn so maybe not. What I have not done however is buy property or cars (the motors are on credit) and my wife owned her house outright before we married.

My investment is in the cost of setting the business up and running it. Sometimes you have to risk all to gain all. I guess the bottom line is do I think it is worth the risk? And the answer to that is a resounding yes. I have a unique business and a customer base that is oblivious to holiday seasons and the fickle nature of most tourist businesses. If you want to know what i do click open the sponsor banner in the Health section.

[younghusband]

Never invest more than you can lose, anywhere

A good philosophy for mediocre returns.

I never go into any investment with this attitude. I don't aim to lose a single cent.

There are hundreds of foreigners that have made fortunes, here and in other countries, that wouldn't have got anywhere if they had listened to that advice.

I would say the best thing to ask yourself is "Do I have the knowledge to invest here?"

It would be interesting to hear some details of the hundreds of foreigners who have made fortunes in Thailand.I have been closely involved in business here for over 30 years and am only aware of a dozen maximum.For clarity's sake I am talking about farang entrepreneurs who have accumulated profits of say $10 million from Thai based businesses.

[TheDon]

Its a myth, you just need to invest correctly. This myth has gone around because alot of farangs come to Thailand investing into pubs and silly things like that. Its like any country, you invest in the wrong thing then yours stuffed.

[zorro1]

Considerable numbers of foreigners have bought and lost properties in Thailand (and continue to do so) and a large truck load of other foreigners have 'invested' in property in Thailand via illegal (or at best dodgy) means.

A lot of foreign investors have lost properties because they don't seem to invest with the same brain they used in their home countries to make the money in the first place.

I'm curious about this one and apart from putting it in your wife's name how else could you lose your property? Does anyone actually know anyone who has lost their property? If so please ad specifics and avoid the "a mate of a mate" syndrome

[Gravelrash]

I believe the bulk of those saying not to invest here are people who have been burned by spouses and those who have bought into unptofitable bars, restauranmts, internet cafes etc. Many of those were probably like me long ago and actually foolishly listened to their wives. Another naysay group is those observing the two groups above, another that are well off and don't need to, and finally those that cannot afford to buy property so say it to justify why they rent.

Any reference to property is not referring to houses in spouses names, as that adage certainly does apply to that case.

My observation is that those who do well in their home countries bring those skills with them, apply them and also do well here. Quite a few also do well in buying and selling property as they can spot bargains, others pay too much so there is never any fat left to make any money. Property is sometimes slow to sell, which is something you need consider if investing, if purely a residence then that probably doesn't matter.

Many people have earned a salary all their lives but assume they know how to run a business. Look at the entrepreneur types at home, most have had many bad outcomes before they get it right. Why would someone trying their hand for the first time and in a foreign country be successful? If they are then they probably had skills to have done this at home.

Everybodies situation is different, some want to invest and others don't. That adage is very general and very sweeping, it is good advice to some but for others is completely irrelevant and a load of nonsense. If you spot some drunken ex-pat collapsed over the bar in the middle of the day and asked him whether investing here was a good idea, just what do you think he will quote you and why?

[zorro1]

I believe the bulk of those saying not to invest here are people who have been burned by spouses and those who have bought into unptofitable bars, restauranmts, internet cafes etc. Many of those were probably like me long ago and actually foolishly listened to their wives. Another naysay group is those observing the two groups above, another that are well off and don't need to, and finally those that cannot afford to buy property so say it to justify why they rent.

Any reference to property is not referring to houses in spouses names, as that adage certainly does apply to that case.

My observation is that those who do well in their home countries bring those skills with them, apply them and also do well here. Quite a few also do well in buying and selling property as they can spot bargains, others pay too much so there is never any fat left to make any money. Property is sometimes slow to sell, which is something you need consider if investing, if purely a residence then that probably doesn't matter.

Many people have earned a salary all their lives but assume they know how to run a business. Look at the entrepreneur types at home, most have had many bad outcomes before they get it right. Why would someone trying their hand for the first time and in a foreign country be successful? If they are then they probably had skills to have done this at home.

Everybodies situation is different, some want to invest and others don't. That adage is very general and very sweeping, it is good advice to some but for others is completely irrelevant and a load of nonsense. If you spot some drunken ex-pat collapsed over the bar in the middle of the day and asked him whether investing here was a good idea, just what do you think he will quote you and why?

Excellent answer and non biased . Should be pinned to every real estate/ Business thread.

[happyending]

the general rule of investment is -

invest in quality when its cheap

right now you can get quality assets in europe, usa, australia etc

without the sovereign risk of 3rd world countries

invest / make money in the richer countries - where its safe

live in the poorer ones - where its cheap

that way your money stretches further

its surprising how little you need to invest elsewhere to live comfortably here.

in fact, now is the chance in a century to set yourself up for good thanks to the us sub prime melt down and its flow on effect to financial markets around the world.

'be greedy when others are fearful' [warren buffet - worlds richest person]

need help

pm me...

[egg6447]

Can't be bothered to vote, but I don't know why we need to add the word 'Thailand' to the phrase.

Surely you should never invest more than you can afford to lose in any environment or country?

1) Op is discussing on subject of investing in Thailand, hence the word "Thailand".

2) Agreed.

It seems we need to point out the obvious again.... This is the ThaiVisa website, where we are discussing issues relating to Thailand and as an aside, the rules of the Forum restrict discussion to Thailand related topics.

It seems therefore that the term 'Thailand' does rightfully belong in the sentence "Never Invest In Thailand More Than You Can Afford To Lose" or at least as it is being discussed here on ThaiVisa.

I do however question the term 'Invest', since I believe the use of this word with respect to making large capital purchases or 'contributions' in Thailand negates the normal sound advice of actually finding out what the local laws are, how they apply to the 'investment' and complying with the law to protect one's 'investment'.

The line of thought that goes "Land/Houses/Stocks/Art Collections' have been solid investments back home - Therefore 'Land/Houses/Stocks/Art Collections' will be solid investments in Thailand" is critically flawed, because in Thailand the laws (and the rules of the game) are different than back home.

Considerable numbers of foreigners have bought and lost properties in Thailand (and continue to do so) and a large truck load of other foreigners have 'invested' in property in Thailand via illegal (or at best dodgy) means.

So I think my own personal advice fits better - 'The biggest lies foreigners hear in Thailand are the lies foreigners tell themselves' - This clearly applies to 'Investments in Thailand'.

correct. beutifully put.

[IMA_FARANG]

I often read on this forum, and hear from people who claim to be knwoledgeable about Thailand: about "the old adage" of "Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from".

I think there is some merit in saying "Be careful investing in Thailand", but that really applies to any investment. Also many examples seem to come down to just poor thought/ planning and getting caught up in dreams (or nightmares) in Thailand that they wouldn't normally do.

Are there any differences for those expats living a fairly "normal family life" compared to those partying/having fun and wanting to extend it.

Are there any circumstances you think it is a risk not to invest here? Such as leaving all your money back home in the US and then getting caught by interest rates, exchange rates, property prices, inflation being different in Thailand. You may not be able to afford losing it, but on the other hand not investing it here could give even bigger problems.

I'd be interested in general thoughts/ views on investing or not here. Investments could obviously cover a wide range of things not just financial, such as stock markets, property, education, emotional aspects, time... etc Reasons to do and not to do etc? As well as simple feedback on the poll and original question.

Look forward to some new thoughts...

There are unusual factors here in Thailand.....including the culture and language differences. But that isn't the real problem.

The Small Business Administration in the U.S. keeps track of small businesses started every year.

There figures show that 4 out of every 5 busineses fail in the first 3 to 5 years. They main reason for that is that the people who started the business did not do the proper research and planning before they started the business.

One reason is spending to much for startup costs (such as a big and fancy office) eating up the profits.

Another common reason is that the market is already saturated. (such as opening another Starbucks coffee shop).

The truth is that in Thailand the same reasons for failure, and probably the same failure rate (80%) apply.

The other common reason is not being able to get the required work force. I tried to point out to someone on this forum who wanted to open a Mexican restaurant that finding Thai cooks who knew how to cook "real mexican food" like he wanted was unlikely in Thailand. He was going to have to train staff to cook Mexican food. That training would take time.

One common reason for failing is that the owner tries to micro-manage. It's nice to be in charge, but you can't do everything. If you try that, you are probably going to fail.

To some it all up, the reasons for a business failing in Thailand are probably quite like a business failing in the U.S.

The main reason for failure however is not knowing your market well enough. And that is as true in Thailand as anywhere else.

[midas]

I often read on this forum, and hear from people who claim to be knwoledgeable about Thailand: about "the old adage" of "Never invest more in Thailand than you can walk away from".

I think there is some merit in saying "Be careful investing in Thailand", but that really applies to any investment. Also many examples seem to come down to just poor thought/ planning and getting caught up in dreams (or nightmares) in Thailand that they wouldn't normally do.

Are there any differences for those expats living a fairly "normal family life" compared to those partying/having fun and wanting to extend it.

Are there any circumstances you think it is a risk not to invest here? Such as leaving all your money back home in the US and then getting caught by interest rates, exchange rates, property prices, inflation being different in Thailand. You may not be able to afford losing it, but on the other hand not investing it here could give even bigger problems.

I'd be interested in general thoughts/ views on investing or not here. Investments could obviously cover a wide range of things not just financial, such as stock markets, property, education, emotional aspects, time... etc Reasons to do and not to do etc? As well as simple feedback on the poll and original question.

Look forward to some new thoughts...

There are unusual factors here in Thailand.....including the culture and language differences. But that isn't the real problem.

The Small Business Administration in the U.S. keeps track of small businesses started every year.

There figures show that 4 out of every 5 busineses fail in the first 3 to 5 years. They main reason for that is that the people who started the business did not do the proper research and planning before they started the business.

One reason is spending to much for startup costs (such as a big and fancy office) eating up the profits.

Another common reason is that the market is already saturated. (such as opening another Starbucks coffee shop).

The truth is that in Thailand the same reasons for failure, and probably the same failure rate (80%) apply.

The other common reason is not being able to get the required work force. I tried to point out to someone on this forum who wanted to open a Mexican restaurant that finding Thai cooks who knew how to cook "real mexican food" like he wanted was unlikely in Thailand. He was going to have to train staff to cook Mexican food. That training would take time.

One common reason for failing is that the owner tries to micro-manage. It's nice to be in charge, but you can't do everything. If you try that, you are probably going to fail.

To some it all up, the reasons for a business failing in Thailand are probably quite like a business failing in the U.S.

The main reason for failure however is not knowing your market well enough. And that is as true in Thailand as anywhere else.

Totally agree ! When I have recently been quoting some of these points as a prerequsite to starting

a business here it is regarded as being an excuse not to proceed They seem to have

the attitude immediately invest in the overheads and if you make money that is a bonus

They dont seem to have very much understaning of preliminary research or identifying potential

customers in advance ?

[Gary A]

I think you have to define investing before you can make any judgments. Investing in a business when there is not a level playing field is a poor investment although some are quite successful. I'd bet that those that are successful work harder and much longer hours than they would if in their own country.

Investing in the stock market is no better or worse than in any other country. Buying a condo in your own name is also as safe as anywhere else. Investing in property that is NOT (cannot be) in your own name is VERY risky. I have invested in property that I can't own but it is an investment for my wife's future. If worse should come to worse, I can afford to walk away from it.

[OlRedEyes]

'Investing' in Thailand is a illusion, at least for the small investor. Anyone with any business savvy would hardly consider investing in a country that is so unstable and - most importantly - where there is ZERO legal protection for his 'investment'. This is the 'Wild East'. People try to prospect here, not invest. The vast majority fail.

Over the long term, Thailand is one of the worst investment prospects for any small foreign investor. Snake oil, anyone?

And no, I haven't 'invested', or lost, any money in Thailand. And I don't intend to, ever. With so many good investment opportunities around the world, why anyone would beats me.

Edited May 19, 2008 by OlRedEyes