Self Insurance And Maximum Claims

[Firefan]

Seen several comment here about self insuring. With the rising costs at the better hospitals it seems that an operation/accident/after-treatment can easily hit 1.5M Baht, and probably more. Brain surgery, heart surgery Etc. comes with several days in hospital and expensive specialists. If i sat on 100 M Baht and a credit card with no or at least $30k limit I might self insure but am not quite there....yet! Also; if i DID have that kind of money they would probably be tied up in investments/real estate/whatever making it hard to get to with short warning.

Looking at TV broker insurance of 1.5M Baht, I would probably need to have that in cash (in Thailand) at close to 0% interest to guarentee my access and easy payout (remember; in an emergency you will not have much flexibilty so go ATM, sign forms, sell funds or whatever). If I on the other hand buy the 1.5M insurance(IPD) for around 17k I can invest the 1.33M baht remaining elsewhere and hopefully earn some of the 17k back (or more!). at least I will have the flexibility to do with my money what I like.

Therefore; self insuring is an option I will not use, except for the cheaper out-patient part - where even serious/longer treatment can be kept resonable (and under ones own control partly; buying drugs prescribed yourself rather than from expensive hospital, say no thanks to the drugs that are simply "extras" at high price(special pain killers, vitamins Etc.), using cheaper clinics when simpler procedures(changing bandages, a few stiches Etc.) and so forth.

TV brokers; can you give us some examples on claims that you have experienced in Thailand, be it brain surgeries, heart, accidents, flesh eating bacterias or whatever one can think of in the higher end? The more examples the better, as it will give people the chance to consider their own financial situation should it happen to them while self insuring.

Cheers!

[ThaivisaInsurance]

Seen several comment here about self insuring. With the rising costs at the better hospitals it seems that an operation/accident/after-treatment can easily hit 1.5M Baht, and probably more. Brain surgery, heart surgery Etc. comes with several days in hospital and expensive specialists. If i sat on 100 M Baht and a credit card with no or at least $30k limit I might self insure but am not quite there....yet! Also; if i DID have that kind of money they would probably be tied up in investments/real estate/whatever making it hard to get to with short warning.

Looking at TV broker insurance of 1.5M Baht, I would probably need to have that in cash (in Thailand) at close to 0% interest to guarentee my access and easy payout (remember; in an emergency you will not have much flexibilty so go ATM, sign forms, sell funds or whatever). If I on the other hand buy the 1.5M insurance(IPD) for around 17k I can invest the 1.33M baht remaining elsewhere and hopefully earn some of the 17k back (or more!). at least I will have the flexibility to do with my money what I like.

Therefore; self insuring is an option I will not use, except for the cheaper out-patient part - where even serious/longer treatment can be kept resonable (and under ones own control partly; buying drugs prescribed yourself rather than from expensive hospital, say no thanks to the drugs that are simply "extras" at high price(special pain killers, vitamins Etc.), using cheaper clinics when simpler procedures(changing bandages, a few stiches Etc.) and so forth.

TV brokers; can you give us some examples on claims that you have experienced in Thailand, be it brain surgeries, heart, accidents, flesh eating bacterias or whatever one can think of in the higher end? The more examples the better, as it will give people the chance to consider their own financial situation should it happen to them while self insuring.

Cheers!

The easiest way to gain an idea of costs is for the members to ask their local/preferred hospital for a list of costs for different scenarios.

[The Vulcan]

The easiest way to gain an idea of costs is for the members to ask their local/preferred hospital for a list of costs for different scenarios.

As Brokers don't you have any examples in your records?

[ThaivisaInsurance]

Offering cost examples for different procedures is not a sensible exercise as so may variables come into it.

Example, where you live and what type of hospital, if you have insurance etc.

One example to show how it is not possible :

A client required his ‘knees’ rebuilt so he went to 3 hospitals for quotes. The top quote was ‘somewhere (that’s what they said) over 300,000 Baht, the middle 125,000 baht and the lowest 80,000 Baht. Now the best bit is the 80,000 Baht hospital he saw the same surgeon as in the most expensive hospital !

As we suggested before, go to your local preferred hospital and ask - very simple and you get the correct answer.

[Firefan]

I understand and do certainly not expect your estimates to be actual quotes - but simply estimates you as a broker can supply clients when wanting to know which of your coverages 1M/1.5M/5M and so on) to buy? That should be part of your guidance to ANY client/potential client(like me) I think?

Can't see how you lose anything buy giving a few real life examples (as hospital quotes will often "forget" stuff when quoting - who have not experienced that?).

Cheers!

[jumnien]

I am quite happy self-insuring. I'm in good hands!

[Firefan]

Sunrise; as I mentioned, as long as one (or rather; the hospital) has access to large enough amounts of your money fast/easy (even when knocked out, no PIN can be used then, no credit card slip can be signed, no bank account book can be used requirering signature, no check can be signed) then self insuring can certainly be viable. It is however rare for most to have that kind of amounts that easily avaliable.

I guess you carry the 1.5M+ around as cash and hope that the first at the scene are honest enough to use them to hand them to the Bumringrad staff when they bring you there!

Joking aside; how do you handle the above dilemma? (you HAVE the money - but no way to get to them as knocked out/brain injured/whatever)?

At least with the Thaihealth card in your pocket they can see that you are covered for the first 1.5M so they can get going on fixing you up. That initial payment confusion/waiting time can be critical for your survival or your well being after treatment - minutes can in fact make the difference between living a normal life or being paralyzed for life.

I am sure some will think; ah, but if I am farang, they will stabilize/fix me and ask for money later.... no so according to many stories I have heard (TV broker; heard any?), except for the most rudimentary treatment; stopping bleeding Etc..

Cheers!

[vagabond48]

Joking aside; how do you handle the above dilemma? (you HAVE the money - but no way to get to them as knocked out/brain injured/whatever)?

I agree with your thinking. I use my bicycle to get around Chiang Mai as others use motorbikes. As careful as I can be, I cannot control those motorists or pedestrians around me, so self insuring for me would be like playing Russian roulette but I don't agree with your above comment.

If I was brought into a hospital unconscious unless, (1) they search my pockets for my insurance card and (2) they ouldl honor the insurance company even if they don't bill directly to them like BUPA and (3) hope I have the money to cover my high deductible, then according to you, anyone with the same situation is as screwed as those who self-insure.

[tonydabbs]

Offering cost examples for different procedures is not a sensible exercise as so may variables come into it.

Example, where you live and what type of hospital, if you have insurance etc.

One example to show how it is not possible :

A client required his 'knees' rebuilt so he went to 3 hospitals for quotes. The top quote was 'somewhere (that's what they said) over 300,000 Baht, the middle 125,000 baht and the lowest 80,000 Baht. Now the best bit is the 80,000 Baht hospital he saw the same surgeon as in the most expensive hospital !

As we suggested before, go to your local preferred hospital and ask - very simple and you get the correct answer.

My benchmark hospital is Bumrungrad. The insurance department there told me that most of the high-end claims are under 1 million baht. But in the most serious cases requiring more than 3 months stay and 24 hours per day constant care the bill could reach as high as 5 to 10 million baht.

For those talking about self-insurance: That might be okay if you have a lot of liquid assets at your disposal. A more practical way to go though would be to ask TV find you a high coverage , high deductible (excess) plan like THI Maxi Healthy MC 12000 or LMG Maxi Care.

[jumnien]

I am lucky enough to be able to afford it, but I still feel more secure knowing that I can pay cash for my medical care. I make a living renting out buildings to insurance companies in the US, and believe me they pay enormous rents. I'd rather pay doctors and hospitals than insurance companies.

[Firefan]

Valid points. I think they will check your wallet - the first card in my wallet is my Thai Health Insurance card with no deductable and cover up to 1.2m Baht(1.5M soon). Thai health is accepted for direct billing at all hospitals in Thailand so that is also not an issue. Finally; I copied my card and put on windshield of my car and on my fridge just in case. Is it fool proof? Nope - but better than not having anything on me at all!

Sunrise believe that they can SEE he is rich and will start the 1M Baht surgery right away...I don't think so with me....

Cheers!

Joking aside; how do you handle the above dilemma? (you HAVE the money - but no way to get to them as knocked out/brain injured/whatever)?

I agree with your thinking. I use my bicycle to get around Chiang Mai as others use motorbikes. As careful as I can be, I cannot control those motorists or pedestrians around me, so self insuring for me would be like playing Russian roulette but I don't agree with your above comment.

If I was brought into a hospital unconscious unless, (1) they search my pockets for my insurance card and (2) they ouldl honor the insurance company even if they don't bill directly to them like BUPA and (3) hope I have the money to cover my high deductible, then according to you, anyone with the same situation is as screwed as those who self-insure.