Private dancer

[taxexile]

She also was picking my brain for advise on how to start a pro-am career.

well well well, you are quite the little middle man arent you.

perhaps you should open a bar girl placement agency for anyone short of a few baht.

[taxexile]

i also think that your taking a friend and neighbour to patpong or wherever to get her involved in prostitution is nothing short of shameful.

the fact that she ended up ok is more luck than anything else.

if you had had any concern for her well being you would have found a more positive way to offer her help. e.g. introduce her to a friend from here or back home who is single.

a shrink would read a lot into the fact that you were "strangely jealous" when she didnt come home that first night.

yours was not an act of help or friendship.

[chonabot]

Nice provocative text from Mr Tax

[FarangYaayYaaw]

Oh, did you just say you made up the story based on the above analogy?

That's why it was (and is) so unbelievable.

NO NO NO - Geez, I'm having a hard time making myself clear. That story is true - every word. So is the story about the AUA teacher - they are BOTH true!

I lived there for quite a long time, I have been married to a Thai woman for 15 years now. I worked for a Thai company and all my co-worker and customers wer Thai. I would go days not seeing anyone who spoke English. I speak enough of the language to get myself in trouble, and I trust people and they trust me. I don't have a very typical Farang attitude or presentation. I'm not agressive, or threatening. I actually take my shoes off before enterning my house in America!

I'm also a very curious, open and fun-loving sort of person. As a result I've had a lot of strange experiences (not just in Thailand) that you maybe havent had.

[taxexile]

Well, the reason I bothered to write it is it's a bit unusual. I guess it must be hard to believe, because I posted it in 2 places and 5 people have called me a liar so far!

he was having it too easy!!

[FarangYaayYaaw]

ithe fact that she ended up ok is more luck than anything else.

...

yours was not an act of help or friendship.

I'm not trying to say I did her any favors (however, she would tell you today that I did - but I can tell by your tone that you're much more interested in your view of what's right for people than ther own), and you're correct about her being lucky. But the point is that I did not help her into this business - she had decided to do that - 100% decided before she even met me and was not going to have me change her mind. The way I saw it was I was just looking after her the first few nights. Morally - I feel it was quite a neutral act.

BTW, are you a Missionary?

[taxexile]

BTW, are you a Missionary?

no i'm not.

but I can tell by your tone that you're much more interested in your view of what's right for people than ther own), 

not really, but when people (not you) say how wonderful it is to come here and find all the prostitutes and how great they etc.etc. and how we must help the poor souls i do feel the need to shout them down.

i have no moral stance on prostitution, its everywhere in the world and its a pity that the prostitutes of other countries dont come here and see how it should be done. because it certainly is done with flirtation and fun . for us men its a dream come true , but for most women , it is no life at all. but the girls see it as an easy way to earn money and some have amazing success either financially or in finding a good partner

but for 90% of the girls, although it may be fun for a year or so to come to bangkok and have a kind of lazy crazy irresponsible life with the chance of meeting a relatively well off foriegner who may take all their troubles away, it just isnt going to happen. after more than a few years at it i would venture that they will find it difficult if not impossible to form a long term loving relationship with either a thai or a falang. they will return to their village or hometown and have to start all over again. few manage to save money.

they have wasted a few years of their lives that could have been spent in a better way. there are many other ways open to these girls to earn a living these days, not like 15 or even 10 years ago.but they want a chance at easy big money, its only later in life that they realise that it was not easy at all.

lots of guys on this forum either go on about how they enjoy banging them, their words not mine, or how they send money over to them in the belief that they are helping them. the guys who are banging them are really the more honest ones.they see it as a purely physical and business transaction.

those that purport to want to help them should marry them or help them get away from prostitution but i suspect they wont. i think some feel guilty about using prostitutes and probably could not bring themselves to actually marry one. sending them money just traps the girl in a dependant relationship. not my idea of help. help is giving someone their freedom to make their own choices in life and to fulfil those choices.

the guys that fall in love and marry the girls are taking a big gamble but more power to them, and lots of those marriages work out fine. but cultural differences and different levels of education will break up a lot of couples too.

i felt that you were wrong to help your friend to find work in patpong, i feel you should have tried to talk her out of it or tried to introduce her to a friend before taking her to market! my post was provocative, but then it got a reply.but i hope your friend is leading a happy life wherever she is now.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

I did introduce this girl to guys I knew, but they weren't interesetd in marrying her. And I did contribute to her welfare in a small way - I drilled into her head the idea that it is ALWAYS ALWAYS necessary to wear a condom. She seeme to feel if the guy was hansome and clean enough it wouldn't be necessary.

Good to know your motivation is what you believe to be best for these girls - and not just to shout insults at people! (I'm not saying I'm above being insulted!)

I do believe if girls keep at this too long it can destroy them, but I think you might be overly optimistic about all the other posiblilities that are open to them, especially the girls with little education. Go to Starbucks or Pizza Hut and talk to the waiters - they're mostly college students - not some Isaan girl with 4 years of education. My sister-in-law is a high school graduate and is finding it difficult to get steady work - and Thailand is in the middle of an economic boom.

2 more points:

There are about 1,000,000 Thais living in the US. I would guess at LEAST 100,000 of them were bar girls who married tourists, GIs, and ex-pats. I've met over 100 such couples, and it seems the divorce rate is no worst than society as a whole (about 50%). But even those girls that get divorced (if the marriage lasts 3 years) end up with a Green Card - they won the lottery.

When I lived in Thailand I went to AA meetings. I would often take small groups of women tourists (Westerners) I met there to GoGo bars because they were curious, then I would act as interpreter. I remember one irate English woman trying to explain to a 30 year old Isaan dancer that she was being "exploited" and she should hate these men who were "exploiting" her.

The girl, who was more thoughtful than most, replied, "these men are the only people I've ever met who don't exploit me. My 4 brothers can't find anybody to give them a fair wage for their work - they're the ones really exploited. People should leave us alone - all these girls want to be here." Then she asked this group of women if any of them would like to donate any money to help her brothers. Nobody did, but the English lady offered her 2,000 Baht if she promised to go home and make an honest living. The girl said "Sure, give me the money." The girl got dressed and went home and the English lady was foolish enough to think she had just saved somebody.

[think_too_mut]

2 FarangYaayYaaw:

>I think you might be overly optimistic about all the other posiblilities that are open to them, especially the girls with little education. Go to Starbucks or Pizza Hut and talk to the waiters - they're mostly college students - not some Isaan girl with 4 years of education.

Well, with 4-yr education Isaan girls, those glossy multinational chains are not what you hit first when looking for a job.

There are thousands of factories where jobs are available on walk-in basis.

(The girls working at Starbucks etc. are HSC qualified, that's what's required to get work there.)

>"these men are the only people I've ever met who don't exploit me. My 4 brothers can't find anybody to give them a fair wage for their work - they're the ones really exploited. People should leave us alone - all these girls want to be here."

You are full of surprises. Another one: a Thai woman publicly trashing her family. I need more convincing that this is possible (in public, if at all).

Don't know if it was here, another one: "They won a lottery when arrived to US".

You think they really wanted to go out of Thai?

They might have won a lottery by finding a man to support them and their family but they hardly like the place (out of Thai) where they have to stay while the support is being ferried back home.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

I know that people without education don't work at the glossy multi-nationalsl. The only reason I brought that up is that many of the anti-bg posters suggest they work at such places.

My sister-in-law is having difficulty finding work ANYWHERE at the moment. This is partly do to the fact she lives in Lop Buri.

--------------------------------

she wasn't trashing her family - just stating things could be better for them.

-----------------------

But I really do know a LOT of Thais who live in America. My wife is very outgoing and active in the Thai community and we've at least met many of the Thais living in San Francisco, and now almost all of them living on the Big Island of Hawaii (maybe 80 people in Hawaii, and well over 150 in San Francisco over the last 12 yars) and I can say this UNEQUIVICALLY:

They all love Thailand, but are VERY happy to be in the US. If you made them choose between spending the rest of their lives in the US or Thailand, I'd bet good money 85% of them would choose the US.

Of course they'd choose mainly for economic reasons, but the "lower class" Thais also enjoy the social opportunities and freedoms and not being "looked down upon" that they enjoy here.

I am not a super-patriotic US republican by any stretch of the immagination, and the only reason I say the above is it's true. This is not my opinion, it is simply fact. If you don't agree with it, you haven't actually communicated with may Thais living here.

------------------------------------

think_too_mut - your opinions are very strong and of the variety of : "I know how THESE PEOPLE are, and they aren't like that." Have you spent much time in Thailand, and do you have any Thai friends or relatives? It almost seems like you read a "Culture Shock Thailand" book and are quoting from it. Sure there are broad things you can say about a culture, and sure Thai is more homogenous than most, but it's still composed of individuals.

[think_too_mut]

think_too_mut - your opinions are very strong and of the variety of : "I know how THESE PEOPLE are, and they aren't like that." Have you spent much time in Thailand, and do you have any Thai friends or relatives? It almost seems like you read a "Culture Shock Thailand" book and are quoting from it. Sure there are broad things you can say about a culture, and sure Thai is more homogenous than most, but it's still composed of individuals.

I'm glad that you said it first. I knew you would.

Since your first post it seems to me that you have never been to Thailand.

Everything you say has never been seen nor said before. All built up around common prejudices, net reading and second-hand information.

BTW, I am veteran (3060 posts) on another Thai releated board.

I introduced myself in one of my first posts here.

Many names here are familiar, I am not the only one.

[mbkudu]

On the other hand, it can't be that unusual because something similar happened to me again.

Oh, did you just say you made up the story based on the above analogy?

That's why it was (and is) so unbelievable.

This guy's stories just have too many holes in them, I can't keep up. It seems like he's making stuff up as he goes along.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

I've explained who I am, and my experience in Thailand - I'm sure it's far more extensive than yours. I've met a lot of know-it-all's like you who come to Thailand buy sex a couple of time, and become an instant expert on absolutely everything. Good at shouting your half-baked opinions, and shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Have fun, you win, I think I'll go get a life!

[mbkudu]

I can only hear steady violin music.

[chonabot]

I've explained who I am, and my experience in Thailand - I'm sure it's far more extensive than yours. I've met a lot of know-it-all's like you who come to Thailand buy sex a couple of time, and become an instant expert on absolutely everything. Good at shouting your half-baked opinions, and shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Have fun, you win, I think I'll go get a life!

The only fishy thing is when a poster joins and instantly posts to get reaction instead of friendly/informative/seeking info type posts.

Chill ( everyone )

[singer]

<font color='#000000'>Here Here!, PRIVATE DANCER IS A GREAT BOOK and should be read by everyone going to Thailand for the first time.

BUT. Don't let it sour you up on Thai ladies......

Edited April 17, 2004 by dr_Pat_Pong

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Here Here!, PRIVATE DANCER IS A GREAT BOOK and should be read by everyone going to Thailand for the first time.

BUT. Don't let it sour you up on Thai ladies......

Singer has been warned.

[chonabot]

And he has been buggered a few times I'll warrant....

[bangsaen bob]

30k quid, that's not even worth mentioning. Tell your firend to come back with a least 100k. Then he will have something to talk about

[Pink Mist]

Private Dancer is an interesting read, but full of holes. Leather really does have a problem with the Thai people in general.

If anyone wants to read it use this link and go to unpublished work, its free so is yorkie friendly.

[Crash999]

FarangYaayYaaw's story is certainly believable- after all, all the girls got their start somehow. They weren't all molested or sold into slavery or were looking for a garment factory and took a wrong turn into Nana.

As far as working in a factory, it's easily possible to get a job doing so- but it's not very easy to support a family at 168 Baht/day, or less out in the provinces.

Hence working in the bars, or starting to freelance, becomes a more attractive option. And of course once the money starts coming in it's very hard to go back to working in a factory or as a clerk.

Lots of guys meet very nice, personable girls in the bars. They get the idea (in many cases supported by the girl) that they can 'rescue' the BG from her present life. This is where the troubles start and Private Dancer scenarios come into play.

Cheers!

[fatter than harry]

Private Dancer

March 5, 2002

Reviewer: A reader from New York, NY

I love Tina Turner's music and I love her as a person now that I know the story behind her incredible life and career. I wish I had found this sooner. I was also surprised to find out she is a practicing Buddhist. Very cool! No wonder she seems like such a centered human being in all of her interviews. I highly recommend this book to anyone who is a fan of Tina Turner. Since learning more about Tina's spirituality, I also highly recommend a book by Taro Gold called "Open Your Mind, Open Your Life" which contains many inspirational thoughts based on the Buddhism Tina metions in her autobiography.

Was this review helpful to you?

[natee1]

There is too much talk about "these girls" for my liking...

Maybe there are more than the 2-3 stereotypical 'stories' and people aren't making things up?

[sonthaya]

Tax, sorry for the long delay, I could be wrong about you, I had too many Carlsberg Elephants that night, but that doesn't mean that I agree with you

[Polo]

There is too much talk about "these girls" for my liking...

Maybe there are more than the 2-3 stereotypical 'stories' and people aren't making things up?

Natee, there must be something wrong.......You are making sense.

Of course they make this crap up, it sells books to idiots that would find such a book interesting. A book that warns of the downside when you choose to exploit another human being should not even have been published, it may give a forewarning to the people that prey on the less fortunate............

In my opinion, if a Bargirl can get a million Dollars from the guy that bought his plane ticket to Thailand with the intent of exploiting her and her fellow countrymen and women, then i give her my full support, i love it when i hear people complain how they have been ripped off by Thai women.

SEX TOURISTS Deserve no less than to be ripped off for every cent they have, they should be castrated also in my opinion!

A guy walk's into a Go-Go bar in Thailand, a lovely 19 year old Dancer sits on his lap, he buys her a house, i love that.

[medicinebox]

Natee, there must be something wrong.......You are making sense.

Of course they make this crap up, it sells books to idiots that would find such a book interesting. A book that warns of the downside when you choose to exploit another human being should not even have been published, it may give a forewarning to the people that prey on the less fortunate............

In my opinion, if a Bargirl can get a million Dollars from the guy that bought his plane ticket to Thailand with the intent of exploiting her and her fellow countrymen and women, then i give her my full support, i love it when i hear people complain how they have been ripped off by Thai women.

SEX TOURISTS Deserve no less than to be ripped off for every cent they have, they should be castrated also in my opinion!

A guy walk's into a Go-Go bar in Thailand, a lovely 19 year old Dancer sits on his lap, he buys her a house, i love that.

Nasty nasty falangs. Stop shaggin bargirls, its upsetting Polio.

[natee1]

...or is he trying to eat an unpeeled durian in the foto?

[natee1]

Natee, there must be something wrong.......You are making sense.

Only because your comprehension of English is so poor.

[Polo]

Natee, there must be something wrong.......You are making sense.

Only because your comprehension of English is so poor.

I can see that it was a temporary blip, you are now back to normal.

Sad............................

[chonabot]

A guy walk's into a Go-Go bar in Thailand, a lovely 19 year old Dancer sits on his lap, he buys her a house, i love that.

Did you go and live in this house that was bought for you then?