To Open Own English School

[Shah Jahan]

We live in a small village in the north and we would like our children to have a western education and wait until they are at least in high school to send them to chaing mai

so the issue is that there are about 4-5 of us all with babies want to have our own (or somebodies) English school to teach our kids together - a proper curriculum K-8 most likely when they are ready for high school send them to Prem in CM or something. So my questions are as follows

1- I am thinking of hiring a private teacher to come and live and teach our kids full time - preferably female and has taught K-8 in the west before. How much would someone like that run us per month? Would it be better to recruit from the already in Thailand pool- or to recruit and import fresh? The teacher would be responsible for everything from lesson plan to evaluation etc....ie....we would just pay and they would be responsible for everything top to bottom.

2- How do we do this logistically besides finding and paying someone - how do we arrange it so the lessons are 'accredited' by the government so they can later pass on to higher education? Do we have to pay someone? or become a affiliate of an established school?

3 - know of anybody else that does this? what are their thoughts?

[PeaceBlondie]

I am not an expert, but I will give a half-educated guess on some of what you propose.

Apparently, you wish to run a private educational institution. You may need approvals by several ministries of the govt., and by local authorities, which could take a year or two. You probably need a headmaster, who is Thai and has master's or above in education; not just a lady to teach kindy. You would, probably, be competing with some established school. It seems unlikely that K-8 at your village school would prepare the students to enter high school at Prem, CMIS, APIS, etc. You may be talking about millions of baht to build a school and staff it. How would you know the applicants are really qualified teachers, or suitable for your village? What textbooks, what curriculum, how do you re-invent a hundred wheels?

I'm often mistaken, but your proposal sounds like a few families would be biting off more than you can chew, unless y'all have several million baht to spend on your children's education.

However, we told somebody on an island down south that no qualified teacher would come and teach two adolescent boys who were "handfuls", and she found some itinerant for a couple of months.

[Shah Jahan]

I am not an expert, but I will give a half-educated guess on some of what you propose.

Apparently, you wish to run a private educational institution. You may need approvals by several ministries of the govt., and by local authorities, which could take a year or two. You probably need a headmaster, who is Thai and has master's or above in education; not just a lady to teach kindy. You would, probably, be competing with some established school. It seems unlikely that K-8 at your village school would prepare the students to enter high school at Prem, CMIS, APIS, etc. You may be talking about millions of baht to build a school and staff it. How would you know the applicants are really qualified teachers, or suitable for your village? What textbooks, what curriculum, how do you re-invent a hundred wheels?

I'm often mistaken, but your proposal sounds like a few families would be biting off more than you can chew, unless y'all have several million baht to spend on your children's education.

However, we told somebody on an island down south that no qualified teacher would come and teach two adolescent boys who were "handfuls", and she found some itinerant for a couple of months.

PB - you make some very good points - money wont be so much of an issue as long as it is not too excessive (we are preparing for Prem which is not cheap)

Really I just want a good education for our children and as little outside interference as possible.

And it doesnt necessarily have to be defined as a school - . A good idea (and maybe someone can input who knows) is to check out homeschooling courses from the states - I am sure those come with some accreditation and will prepare the children for acceptance into a good school?

That leaves the legal issue of the children being dual citizens in Thailand and not going to any Thai school, but I doubt anybody would notice or care especially if they see they are doing their own school at home? Thoughts or experiences?

As for the applicants being qualified-well there are ways to tell and research always to be done.

[withnail]

I don't quite know how homeschooling works, but presumably if you did this the kids might be registered as studying at a US institution. The problem then is that, regardless of this, to employ someone legally they will need to be registered as working at a school here. I can imagine you would find getting them legal to be a huge pain in the axxx and I can't see anyone qualified enough wanting to do it in the first place.

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Personally, I have mixed feelings for home-schooling, especially the socialisation side of children being educated in such a way. However, the OP says there are 5 children so I doubt that's such a big issue in this case.

However, is it possible for the visa/work permit problem to be overcome by working with a language school ? I could be opening the gates of hel_l by suggesting it but is it possible for a language school to employ the teacher using their legal status and specify that the OP's house is the place of work ? For the language school's trouble, they could "cream off" a percentage of the monthly salary (not unheard of when they do this with schools).

[Shah Jahan]

Personally, I have mixed feelings for home-schooling, especially the socialisation side of children being educated in such a way. However, the OP says there are 5 children so I doubt that's such a big issue in this case.

However, is it possible for the visa/work permit problem to be overcome by working with a language school ? I could be opening the gates of hel_l by suggesting it but is it possible for a language school to employ the teacher using their legal status and specify that the OP's house is the place of work ? For the language school's trouble, they could "cream off" a percentage of the monthly salary (not unheard of when they do this with schools).

What about hiring them for my company as a training expert and issuing a work permit?

As for the other poster to find someone qualified wanting to do it. Think about all those teachers in Falang land. Which one of them wouldn't love being flown to Thailand to live in the jungle for a year as a private educator? We take it for granted - but for somebody across the channel it is the experience of a lifetime.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Shah Jahan

[Hong Kong Phooey]

^ Hiring a teacher through your company is do-able I'd say, if they're employed on the basis that they bring "specialist knowledge" in the eyes of the Thai authorities (i.e. native English speaker). I don't know about the technicalities of work permits in such a situation but I'm sure a decent Thai lawyer could help. Maybe the one who helped you set up your company ?

As for finding a teacher in farangland, yes, I think you would probably be successful. There's always a newbie somewhere disillusioned with the system, especially in the UK right now, and looking for new pastures, so to speak. hel_l, if that woman who PB mentioned can find someone down south for her "little darlings", then you stand an equal chance - and you're offering a long-term gig. Definitely be cautious about verifying their qualifications, though.

I do think, also, that that you're gonna have to be more "hands on" with the set-up and running of your idea. Make sure the teacher you appoint gives all parents regular updates on the children's progress. Don't just assume that the teacher is doing their job OK. The person you're seeking is someone more than a babysitter (I hope !) Remember: these formative years of a child's life are the most important in their learning.

Good luck if you decide to go ahead with this plan. I know it's do-able because last year I met a Thai teacher through a mutual friend and she and her mother (both teachers who qualified in the USA to M.Ed. level) are doing something similar down in Hat Yai. Yes, actual home-schooling as opposed to out-of-school tutoring ! They saw a market for home-schooling and have set something up for a family-collective using an American system. I don't know any more details other than it's going quite well and they have a lot of interest in the scheme. It's nice to know that the Thai families they're working with seem more open-minded to diverse education systems than that currently offered in Thailand at present.

[PeaceBlondie]

Home-schooling. Does the OP mean home-schooling only for his own children? He seems to want a collective, and the home-schooling I know is just within each family. Most families I have heard about who do home-schooling hate institutional schools so thoroughly that they want nothing to do with having their precious children tainted by other children. Maybe I only met the super-fundamentalist-crazy parents, though.

Would schools the caliber of Prem (an upper tier, true-blue, ultra-expensive private international school) honor a unique education gained by some unknown group literally in the jungle? I think not, but I don't drink with the Prem crowd. I have recently spoken with students currently attending fully accredited international schools (Lanna, APIS), and they not only had to present accredited academic credentials. They also had to pass rigorous personal interviews that showed they were ready to just jump right into an exclusive private school, where fees were beside the point. Being at Lanna or APIS for many years will not even grant you automatic acceptance to Prem, CMIS, or Grace.

[toasted]

Aside from problems with resourcing this venture with equipment that any decent teacher would insist on, how do you propose to interview candidates? Do you know what to ask them about assessment for learning for example? Do you know what a satisfactory answer would be? Or would you simply go by their CV?

Getting the right person in place is an enormous task in itself if you want to do it right, and I'm sure that you do.

Good luck with your plans.

[Ijustwannateach]

Basically, you can't legally employ a single foreign teacher privately. You would need to have a company with a fairly large and expensive staff running to have any chance at the work permit, and this would not be economic. You may get away with this anyway, but it won't be legal.

[garro]

It is very understandable that the OP wants the best for his children. On the surface it sounds like a good idea, but a little reflection and all the problems really stand out. Does the OP or his friends know much about education? It is not a simple matter. The OP and his little band of concerned parents would effectively be the administration for whatever teachers they employ -that's assuming they can find a way to employ and attract them. While I have seem schools where those responsible for administration knew nothing, I have never seen one of these schools be successful. The fact that the OP seems more concerned with the sex of the teacher is rather telling.

Shah Jahan- they are your children, so at the end of the day it is up to you, but do you want to experiment with your child's education? Because this will be a big gamble, and I don't fancy your odds at all. Good luck.

Edited May 15, 2008 by garro

[Shah Jahan]

All of you have made some very good points - keep in mind there are a couple of consistent factors that we have. Taking these into account we need to discover the solution best

the facts

1. There are 4-5 of us with half falang babies and toddlers in a village in the mountains. We are a tribe and have similar views on raising children.

2. No interest in moving to Chiang Mai.

3. it is definitely agreed that our children will not be attending the local village schools.

4. We want a westernish education for our children - meaning all education in english by western teacher(s) -

5. We want this education to be of a caliber so that our children (if they choose and have the aptitude) could apply to a international standards high school and be accepted

based on these 5 givens - we need to come up with a solution.

And to reply to Garro above - I am not absolutely set on a female teacher, but it seems a good place to start to shake out the tree. the right teacher is the right teacher and you know when you see them that it is correct and in harmony. As for the other points Garro has mentioned - there is no gamble- it is just the way - there is no other way to educate our children as we are not leaving for the city and village school is not an option. that all being said, we have to work with what we have.

Incidentally, it was pointed out to me today that there is a Thai Home School government ministry (or something of the sorts) and certain groups that work with them which give full accreditation and just have a government inspector come by once a year. something to look into.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Shah Jahan

[toasted]

Have you considered contacting some international schools and asking them to provide a teacher? They may do it if the price is right and they have enough warning, but although I wouldn't bet on getting a positive response, it would certainly be a relatively simple option for you. It's been suggested that you do this through a language school, but I don't think you'd find yourselves with quite the teacher you're hoping for.

[scyriacus]

Basically, you can't legally employ a single foreign teacher privately. You would need to have a company with a fairly large and expensive staff running to have any chance at the work permit, and this would not be economic. You may get away with this anyway, but it won't be legal.

could you please tell the forum: WHY? what about 'self-employment' (free-lancer)? is there any need to call it 'teaching'? what about 'nursing' but english as a requirement, so no thais will loose a job? i was desperatelly looking for an english speaking maid at the local labour-office, but obviously the maids either don't speak english, or if they do they won't work as a maid but want to become mia's. could you please give reliable sources. how and where to get an english speaking maid, nurse, education consultant, teacher or whatever for oneself? i understood, that these work permits are only required, if you want to be employed by a company, but not if you are a single consultant.

[PeaceBlondie]

Basically, you can't legally employ a single foreign teacher privately. You would need to have a company with a fairly large and expensive staff running to have any chance at the work permit, and this would not be economic. You may get away with this anyway, but it won't be legal.

could you please tell the forum: WHY? what about 'self-employment' (free-lancer)? is there any need to call it 'teaching'? what about 'nursing' but english as a requirement, so no thais will loose a job? i was desperatelly looking for an english speaking maid at the local labour-office, but obviously the maids either don't speak english, or if they do they won't work as a maid but want to become mia's. could you please give reliable sources. how and where to get an english speaking maid, nurse, education consultant, teacher or whatever for oneself? i understood, that these work permits are only required, if you want to be employed by a company, but not if you are a single consultant.

I do not know how a free-lancer gets a work permit. Most free-lance teachers here in the north are working without a WP.

Could an established teaching agency locate a very well-qualified teacher? Yes, although most agencies might not know an available teacher of international-school qualifications.

I noticed that Burmese maids sometimes speak good English, well enough to have household conversations with the adults and children. Being foreigners, they may have visa and work permit barriers.

[Ijustwannateach]

Work permits are required for the performance of any paid or non-paid work in Thailand. Many tsunami volunteer workers were told to leave Thailand because they had no work permit, for example.

I'm told if you have your own business here you can get a work permit for yourself under certain conditions, but I'm not very familiar with that- I doubt the terms would be economic for a single teacher, and if it became clear you were actually teaching other rules which make setting up a school would come into effect (having a Thai educational expert as your DOS, for example). If you were doing work not listed under your work permit, you would be violating the law.

This is the teaching section; if you want advice about your maid, please look in other sections of the forum (I suggest visas or jobs/employment general forum).

[ManuManu]

Hello,

I have a similar project to yours. My daughter's school closed down, and it seems we are about 5 western mums with no other option (appart from one thai school that might be ok, but opening in november? That is a few month ahead) than getting together and setting up a program for our kids. But they are only KG's.

I have heard (PLEASE CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM THAT INFO) that if you are less than 7 students in a building, that is home tuition, not a school.

If you are more, you need your compagny, etc... Plus, our kid's are young. There is only 5 or 6 kids concerned.

Will government care, and are we braking the law, if we rent a place and hire a full time thai helper, a full time thai teacher, and a part time western teacher??

Thanks

Manu

[Ijustwannateach]

You can't legally hire a part-time western teacher unless your home is on his work permit, and once again I think you will run into a lot of problems getting that to happen. But probably no one will care.

[PeaceBlondie]

Expatriates do weird things with their kids' education. I just heard of a Korean student (who is bilingual in English and Korean, 11 years old) moving to a Thai-only school. He is bright, but I cannot imagine how he can learn anything.

[Niranut]

While I can't speak to the legalities of hiring a foreign teacher to come and help, I can give a few official details about the legalities of homeschooling kids with Thai nationality here in Thailand (foreign kids can be homeschooled without worrrying about the following requirements). It sounds like the OP here is looking to homeschool the group of kids in her village, which is perfectly legal and no problem, so long as you make sure you submit all of the proper information to the homeschool people at the Ministry of Education.

A good place to start is the Thai Homeschool Association website at www.thaihomeschool.net and you will find all of the official requirements which must be met in order to legally homeschool a Thai child. I quickly re-read it before this post and did not see any limitations on the number of students, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one. Basically, you need to submit the names of the people who will be doing the teaching, the names of the students, a map of where the kids will be taught, the curriculum and lesson plans you will be using, and the type/method of teaching you will use.

There is also a homeschool manual which was recently produced by the Ministry of Education for education authorities and interested families. While I don't have one yet myself, I understand that you can get a copy by contacting the Ministry of Education directly. Contact info is on their website at www.moe.go.th.

In addition, the following article from the Bangkok Post was recently posted on the Ministry of Education website at http://www.moe.go.th/new_site/node/18/480/...sec_detail/7807.

Source - Bangkok Post Website (Eng)

Tuesday, April 29, 2008 03:30

Getting an education at home

Homeschooling is an alternative more and more parents are getting involved with, writes Achara Ashayagachat

A new school semester will start in the next two weeks and children will don their school uniforms and head off to their schools. However, one group of children will just stay at home, wear their casual clothes and study with their parents under the homeschool programme.

Despite a two-decade long presence in Thailand, the alternative way of being educated at home, known as homeschooling, remains unpopular with the public and has failed to get support from state educational bodies.

So far 70 families with 80 students with 1-3 students in each family have registered with provincial educational authorities. Most are in Bangkok and its satellite cities, and in Mae Hong Son, Songkhla, Satun and Phuket.

Home schoolers struggled for two decades to have this alternative way of home education legally certified before the Education Ministry finally approved it four years ago.

Chokchuang Chutinaton and Pibhop Dhongchai were among the pioneers of home schooling in Thailand when they chose to teach their children from home in the 1980s. In those days, the two had to answer loads of questions from people in the mainstream educational system, as well as state authorities.

''Even now, education authorities in many provinces still know nothing about the government-endorsed homeschooling. A manual for the authorities and interested families was only released last year,'' said Chummas Panghom, a member of the Thai Homeschool Association, a voluntary support group which helps families survive the rigours of homeschooling.

In the past, parents who wanted to give their children an alternative education almost had no choice but send their kids to the Kanchanaburi-based Children's Village School, which offers non-mainstream teaching and learning methods.

However, parents had more options after 2004 when the Education Ministry allowed them to provide an education to their children at home on the condition that they submit their educational plans to the respective authorities.

Although four years have passed since homeschooling was legalised in Thailand, many advocates feel that state educators have ignored and alienated the concept, while the Education Ministry has done little to promote the benefits of the programme.

''Many still do not realise that homeschooling is no longer illegal. Some misunderstand and think it is a special programme for abnormal kids,'' said Ms Chummas, a 46-year-old mother who homeschools her 10-year-old son.

''Homeschooling is perhaps the best education that brings out the capabilities, desires and gifts embedded in your kids and they give their best performance,'' she said.

She added that the programme helps create love and warmth in the family because either a mother or a father is required to devote his or her time to taking care of their children.

''A single parent could also homeschool their kids if he or she efficiently manages their time or hires a reliable person to take care of their children at times,'' she said.

Dr Chokchuang, 63, said homeschooling, like alternative farming or medical treatments, needed pioneers and determination before being adopted and supported by the general public.

''Homeschooling can do better than a formal education in terms of instilling analytical thinking and self-reliance in children. I believe homeschooling is the best way to forge a democracy and a respect for human rights at a young age,'' he said.

Piya and Lakhana Sansanayuth, who are herbal healthcare product manufacturers in Ratchaburi, decided to homeschool their six-year-old son six months ago and are confident their family will learn many lessons and have a lot of fun from this alternative education.

The couple also plan to homeschool their daughter.

The family is likely to be the first in Ratchaburi province to try homeschooling and this has raised the eyebrows of their relatives.

''We just want our kids to be happy,'' said Mr Piya. ''They should have freedom to use all of their capacity and talent to do their best in whatever way they choose.

''It is their life, not our life, after all. They should not be held at fault.''

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Nirinut. I take it that the children of the OP and the rest of what he calls his 'tribe in the jungle' are all dual-nationality, Thai and Western.

[Niranut]

Yes, I also understood that the OP's kids were dual nationality. And since one of those nationalities is Thai, they'll need to follow the Thai homeschool regulations while they are here in Thailand. It is perfectly fine to use an international curriculum, just need to make sure to register with the local educational authorities to keep things on the up and up.

That being said, I'm wondering if the OP has considered working something out with the other parents so that the parents themselves would do the actual teaching? This is what most homeschooling families do, especilly when the kids are younger. Even if all of the parents work full-time, it is often doable to work out a schedule wherein homeschooling still works very well, with or without extra tutors. This is especially true since homeschooled kids only need a few hours a day of actual instruction time since the process is so personally catered to the individual kids, and no time is wasted with unnecessarily lengthy explanations and the management of large classes of kids. It is also common to hire special tutors or others to help with subjects that the parents are not able to do, but this is more often the case as the children get older and parents aren't proficient in physics or calculus or other more difficult subjects. Although it could also be done at the younger ages if the parents were needing to supplement some of the teaching at the elementary level, i.e. having a part-time native English speaking tutor come in to help a bit (perhaps someone who already has a proper job elsewhere).

There are several internationally based homeschool curricula out there which are very parent-friendly. And if you start at the pre-school level, you will be professional homeschoolers in no time. All of the lesson plans, books, workbooks, craft supplies, etc are all included. In addition, some homeschool curriculm also include an option where you can hire a professional educator to oversee the students' progress and work with the parents to make sure the kids are getting everything they should out of their education. This is especially helpful for first-time homeschooling families. One curriculum that comes to mind is the Calvert School (google them and you can get more details). I know they have the professional educator assistant option, which may be a way to work well with the situation as I understand it here. You would have a professional educator working with the parents to make sure the kids are progressing as they should.

I know that homeschooling is not for everyone, but after reading this post, it seems that it may be a good option for the OP. Following any of the officially accredited homeschooling programs out there would certainly prepare the kids for further education at Prem, and may even give them some advantages in that homeschooled kids get such personalized attention that any problem areas are quickly identified and can be addressed, as well as areas of proficiency which are also quickly identified and then parents can work with the kids to allow them to further develop those gifts at a pace which is comfortable for the kids.

[ScienceGuy]

It sounds like you're trying to bypass the "middle-man" schools and go directly to the source... There are a lot of people out there like you, including teachers. If you're still interested, you can find a teacher here: [iJWT: No URL's, please, send a PM to this user if you're interested]. We're still starting out but this sounds like a project we'd be interested in.