Abused Wife Wants To Leave

[apetley]

I have also posted this on the Thailand-UK website.

Hi, if anyone can offer advice I would be grateful.

My Thai wife has a friend here in the UK. Her friend has a serious problem, is also Thai and married to an Englishman.

The friend first came to the UK at the beginning of July 2003 on a 2 year visa.

During those 2 years she has been bullied and abused by her husband.

She has her 2 children boy, 13 and girl, 15 here also. They are from a previous Thai marriage.

They live in single bedroom council accomodation.

The kids came here several months ago. Lets just say the British Embassy in BKK thought the accomodation here in UK would be bigger!

Recently her husband has hit both her and her 13 year old son and she would like to leave.

Now the questions from her.

Where can she go?

Will she have to go back to Thailand?

Can her visa be taken away?

If anyone knows of similar experiences I would be grateful to hear from you.

My wife and I are trying our best to help her but can only suggest help from womens groups right now.

Our friend is scared of contacting the Police as she is worried about visa implications.

Thanks for reading, Andy.

[the scouser]

I can advise on the immigration angle.

Your wife's friend and her children have permission to stay in the UK until July 2005. Providing that the visa was legitimately obtained it can't be revoked. However, if someone has obtained their permission to stay by deception (e.g. they've told porkies about the size of their accommodation) they can be treated as an illegal entrant and removed from the United Kingdom. However, for the latter to happen the Immigration Service would have to be alerted. Most police officers know sod all about immigration and the chances are that if they see a valid visa in her and her children's passports they will not even contact the I.S.

In the long term her problem will be what to do when their visas expire. From what you've said you wife's friend's visa was granted on the basis of her being married to a British citizen. Obviously, if she splits from her husband then the purpose behind the visa has been removed and she would not qualify for any further leave in this capacity. She then has to decide whether to return to Thailand or risk arrest as an overstayer. If she overstays then the I.S. will not actively seek her out but should someone dob her in (her husband perhaps?) then they will act upon the information. As the children's status is dependant upon hers they, too, would not qualify. Furthermore, she currently has no entitlement to public funds and will therefore find it difficult to get financial assistance from the government.

Another thought crossed my mind too. I'm not an expert in this area but the lady may run the risk of having her children taken in to local authority care if they find out that the kids have been living in a 1-bedroomed flat with 2 adults. Whether she goes to the police or a women's refuge, they are both likely to involve social services because of the presence of the children.

My advice for what it's worth is for your wife's friend to go to the police. If her sole concern is to stay in the UK then, I'm sorry, the odds are stacked against her unless she tolerates living with her husband and accepts the abuse until she gets her indefinite leave to remain.

Scouse.

[IamMaiC]

No one should have to tolerate abuse, She should go to the Police and report her husband. Can she get help anywhere in england?? Lucky I'm not her friend or her husband be getting a little payback.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can advise on the immigration angle.

Your wife's friend and her children have permission to stay in the UK until July 2005. Providing that the visa was legitimately obtained it can't be revoked. However, if someone has obtained their permission to stay by deception (e.g. they've told porkies about the size of their accommodation) they can be treated as an illegal entrant and removed from the United Kingdom. However, for the latter to happen the Immigration Service would have to be alerted. Most police officers know sod all about immigration and the chances are that if they see a valid visa in her and her children's passports they will not even contact the I.S.

In the long term her problem will be what to do when their visas expire. From what you've said you wife's friend's visa was granted on the basis of her being married to a British citizen. Obviously, if she splits from her husband then the purpose behind the visa has been removed and she would not qualify for any further leave in this capacity. She then has to decide whether to return to Thailand or risk arrest as an overstayer. If she overstays then the I.S. will not actively seek her out but should someone dob her in (her husband perhaps?) then they will act upon the information. As the children's status is dependant upon hers they, too, would not qualify. Furthermore, she currently has no entitlement to public funds and will therefore find it difficult to get financial assistance from the government.

Another thought crossed my mind too. I'm not an expert in this area but the lady may run the risk of having her children taken in to local authority care if they find out that the kids have been living in a 1-bedroomed flat with 2 adults. Whether she goes to the police or a women's refuge, they are both likely to involve social services because of the presence of the children.

My advice for what it's worth is for your wife's friend to go to the police. If her sole concern is to stay in the UK then, I'm sorry, the odds are stacked against her unless she tolerates living with her husband and accepts the abuse until she gets her indefinite leave to remain.

Scouse.

Scouse FYI in the same circumstances in Australia Immigration would fast track residency for the woman and children because of the abuse. They'd be looking for a bit of police supporting evidence of the situation, or some other reliable evidence.

[LivinLOS]

of course if she was in another relationship by 2005 July that could also effect matters.. Harsh but true.

[SK1972]

I do agree with Scouser's feedback. He is nearly spot-on about the facts. I think it would be better for her to come back to her own country though. The kids are not his so he would not have to pay for maintenance. Question is whether she can find employment there and support herself. I doubt the British govt will be very happy to be paying her "welfare" and such.

Dr Pat Pong, I know for a fact that a Thai friend of mine in Aussie has been asked to return to Thailand. They paid for her ticket back though. She went on a spouse visa and was there for 8 months when her husband also became abusive. Since her visa was "tied" to her being married to the bloke, she was asked to return to TH. So, I am not sure, maybe they go on a case-to-case basis.

[apetley]

Hi, thanks for all of your comments and advice.

Just back from a visit to the Police where my wifes friend made an official complaint. She will go back tomorrow when they will have an interpreter so she can write down a proper statement.

Police have also put her in touch with a womens refuge so hopefully she will have somewhere safe to stay.

Have found out that she can almost certainly remain in UK if she leaves her husband because of abuse. Just has to be documented through the Police and maybe corroborated by doctors report.

She works (legally) to support herself here and send her mom back home some cash so benefits should not be involved in any case.

[the scouser]

Sorry for the incorrect info but the buggers have gone and changed the immigration rules without telling me. Here are the new rules:-

"289A. The requirements to be met by a person who is the victim of domestic violence and who is seeking indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom are that the applicant:

(i) was admitted to the United Kingdom or given an extension of stay for a period of 2 years as the spouse of a person present and settled here; or

(ii) was admitted to the United Kingdom or given an extension of stay for a period of 2 years as the unmarried partner of a person present and settled here; and

(iii) the relationship with their spouse or unmarried partner, as appropriate, was subsisting at the beginning of the relevant period of leave or extension of stay referred to in (I) or (ii) above; and

(iv) is able to produce such evidence as may be required by the Secretary of State to establish that the relationship was caused to permanently break down before the end of that period as a result of domestic violence."

Scouse.

[Khun Larry]

During those 2 years she has been bullied and abused by her husband.

She has her 2 children boy, 13 and girl, 15 here also. They are from a previous Thai marriage.

They live in single bedroom council accomodation.

The kids came here several months ago. Lets just say the British Embassy in BKK thought the accomodation here in UK would be bigger!

Recently her husband has hit both her and her 13 year old son and she would like to leave.

Now the questions from her.

Where can she go?

Will she have to go back to Thailand?

Can her visa be taken away?

If anyone knows of similar experiences I would be grateful to hear from you.

My wife and I are trying our best to help her but can only suggest help from womens groups right now.

Our friend is scared of contacting the Police as she is worried about visa implications.

Thanks for reading, Andy.

Sounds like the relationship didn't work out.

Why doesn't she just return to Thailand? Her Country

Is your question really what can she do to get a free ride in the West?

Unless you care enough to be financially responsible, your efforts to "help" her are making things worse.

She obviously does not care about her children's living environment:

"During those 2 years she has been bullied and abused by her husband."

"The kids came here several months ago"

Does not sound like a good mother to me.

Send her back.

[taxexile]

sounds a bit harsh k. larry.

although i would, at the first sniff of someone trying to get a free luch in the uk, want to hang them up by their thumbs , in this case it sounds like she works ,can support her children and should be entitled to stay.

families living in one room is common in thailand and children joining their mothers after periods of absence is also not out of the ordinary for thais.

the relationship did not work out and she should be entitled to stay , should she needs some help with benefits for a while , well this is exactly the kind of situation that the benefit system is there for , it doesn't sound like any kind of scam to me.

compassion k.larry, is good for everyones soul.

may the lord have mercy on yours.

[mango]

sounds a bit harsh k. larry.

although i would, at the first sniff of someone trying to get a free luch in the uk, want to hang them up by their thumbs , in this case it sounds like she works ,can support her children and should be entitled to stay.

families living in one room is common in thailand and children joining their mothers after periods of absence is also not out of the ordinary for thais.

the relationship did not work out and she should be entitled to stay , should she needs some help with benefits for a while , well this is exactly the kind of situation that the benefit system is there for , it doesn't sound like any kind of scam to me.

compassion k.larry, is good for everyones soul.

may the lord have mercy on yours.

I can just see me going to the police in Thailand and saying i was getting abused by my partner here, ok the police reply come back tomorrow and we will have an interpretur for you oh and by the way i want to stay in your country and my kids do to, even though i brought my kids here knowing it was not a good situation, please give us a house and some cash while i find another sponser oops sorry bf/husband whatever aslong as i can stay in your country.

Yeh right

[Dickie]

It hasn't worked so she should go back to her home country. How's she going to support her kids without digging into the pockets of the Brits? She won't be able to.

Anyway, we've only heard one side of the tale. She could well be a scam-artist.

[snoophound]

Seems an all too familiar story.

Falang cant get girl at home ,goes to thailand meets lady,falls in love or something.

Thai girl has family to support ,prob working bar,meets rich man england.

Lovely time had in thailand with rich man england.

Gets visa goes to UK ,discovers the reality of shitty place,council flat no money.

Honeymoon over Reality bites ,Falang spends all his dough in t local,she bored and lonely

She should go home.

cynical yes but seen this happen plenty times to various friends of my lady.

[SK1972]

She works (legally) to support herself here and send her mom back home some cash so benefits should not be involved in any case.

If she can do that in UK, she can do better in her own country and she understand the language! I think she should be sent back.........unless she just wants a free ride...

Just back from a visit to the Police where my wifes friend made an official complaint. She will go back tomorrow when they will have an interpreter so she can write down a proper statement.

She obviously doesnt speak or understand much English if she needs an interpreter.....so wouldnt she be better off going home.......how can she find work in UK??? A chamber maid?

oh and by the way i want to stay in your country and my kids do to, even though i brought my kids here knowing it was not a good situation, please give us a house and some cash while i find another sponser oops sorry bf/husband whatever aslong as i can stay in your country.

Yeh right 

For once, I DO AGREE with Mango on this!!!

She could have been in a "marriage of convenience" to ger her there first and made up and story after to be allowed to stay there. Happens too often.

If she was really abused, I feel for her..........but who is to know the REAL story......

Taxexile........reality is harsh sometimes..........life is never a bed of roses

[Khun Larry]

sounds a bit harsh k. larry.

Tax

What is your reason for not sending her back to her own lovely country? What is so harsh about that?

Sounds like a typical marriage scam. Then she brought 2 children into an abusive environment.

History is a great teacher.

Get your facts together my friend.

[eljeque]

Assuming that she is on the up-and-up, she can collar him for plenty. First of all, is they want a divorce, it will cost him. If she needs to be supported by the state between now and the time that she gets the divorce in court - maybe months, the state will bill him for it. He will also pay for his lawyer, and hers as well. Even if he wins the case, and it is found that he did not abuse her and that she should not get any money from him, as the marriage had been for such a short time, he will still have to pay the government for her rent, her food, her medical, her lawyer, her ticket, etc., and that includes the kids too.

It is a very risky situation to bring a woman to the West.

[apetley]

Seems like all the cynical, non constructive bigoted types have found this now.

Sad that some people only look for the worst isn't it?

[Khun Larry]

Seems like all the cynical, non constructive bigoted types have found this now.

Sad that some people only look for the worst isn't it?

Now that post is really LAME.

If you do not want opinions then leave out the background and simply state:

"How can I help a Thai woman in the UK get money from her husband"

If she (and you) is not interested in his money then she should just walk out like they do in Thailand.

You are asking for help to get the guy's money under the guise of an abusive relationship wherein she is the victim and nothing more. Wake up.

Khun Cynic

[apetley]

Khun Larry, I wasn't asking for opinions based on preconceptions I was asking for advice based on facts.

FYI she is not after his money, she wants to get away from an abusive relationship.

She does not want state money she works herself.

She is not a scam artist, she just made a bad choice for husband, is that a crime?

If people cant be constructive when advice is sought and just want to slag off someone they know nothing about then they must be incredibly mean and narrow minded.

[Khun Larry]

mai pen rai... thai style, thai culture

[Dickie]

Seems like all the cynical, non constructive bigoted types have found this now.

Sad that some people only look for the worst isn't it?

Bigoted? You think she can work, support two kids AND send money home to mum? Ye gods! People born here couldn't afford to do that by themselves!

The fact that you previously spelt 'mum' as 'mom' means you're a septic, so what's it to you if she manages to worm here way into the UK with her two foreign kids and pumps it for cash? If you're so concerned about her why not get her into the US?

Thought not

[jhj2000]

She should first seek help from within the Thai community in the U.K. She will find that good advice is readlily available and effective and is based on years of experiance of this sort of problem, usually a combination of Thai empathy and farang wisdom through age and experiance.

[taxexile]

"289A. The requirements to be met by a person who is the victim of domestic violence and who is seeking indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom are that the applicant:

(i) was admitted to the United Kingdom or given an extension of stay for a period of 2 years as the spouse of a person present and settled here; or

(ii) was admitted to the United Kingdom or given an extension of stay for a period of 2 years as the unmarried partner of a person present and settled here; and

(iii) the relationship with their spouse or unmarried partner, as appropriate, was subsisting at the beginning of the relevant period of leave or extension of stay referred to in (I) or (ii) above; and

(iv) is able to produce such evidence as may be required by the Secretary of State to establish that the relationship was caused to permanently break down before the end of that period as a result of domestic violence."

khun larry...... that is why she should be allowed to stay. its the law.! she is entitled to stay.

if she is working then she is not a burden on the state. as a previous poster mentioned , the thai community in the uk is a supportive community and would help her with finding enough work to be able to look after her kids. the thais in the uk for the most part do not run to the benefit office looking for handouts in the same way that a lot of other nationalities do.

the thais usually work hard to look after themselves. at least all the ones that i know do.

i vote to give her a chance.

usually i am one of the first to yell "kick the scroungers out" , but in this case the nature of her problem and the fact that she has uprooted two children to come to the uk has brought the softer side of the taxexile psyche to the fore.

so once again i say

let her stay !!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

mai pen rai... thai style, thai culture

Beware of assumption. However can you know the facts from the short detail on the thread ?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There's usually two sides to every story.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

khun larry...... that is why she should be allowed to stay. its the law.! she is entitled to stay.

                    if she is working then she is not a burden on the state. as a previous poster mentioned , the thai community in the uk is a supportive community and would help her with finding enough work to be able to look after her kids. the thais in the uk for the most part do not run to the benefit office looking for handouts in the same way that a lot of other nationalities do.

the thais usually work hard to look after themselves. at least all the ones that i know do.

i vote to give her a chance.

usually i am one of the first to yell "kick the scroungers out" , but in this case the nature of her problem and the fact that she has uprooted two children to come to the uk has brought the softer side of the taxexile psyche to the fore.

so once again i say

let her stay !!

I am with you here... Everybody deserves a chance in Life. Khun Larry is something of a hard-hearted person... And besides... what about the hundreds of thousands of Brits who ponce off the state... who do not pay 'all' their taxes... they should be deported to Australia like the good old days

At least this woman is working and the fact that she needs and interpreter (spelling?) for a Police statement is irrelevent... How many Brits in Thailand would need the same thing???

She probably married this guy to better her life... and what are you Brits doing in Thailand... did you go there to better the country or for your own personal ends?

People who live in Glass Houses should not throw stones....

"Let him without sin cast the first stone." Amen.

Well said Ravisher. A decent balanced view ( except for the bit about sending more miscreants to Australia )

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There's usually two sides to every story.

No.... there are always THREE sides to every story.... The first side's story, the second side's story... and the Truth

Ain't that a fact.

[SK1972]

No.... there are always THREE sides to every story.... The first side's story, the second side's story... and the Truth

Sooooooooooooo true....................but how are we gonna know which is which???

[Khun Larry]

Khun Larry is something of a hard-hearted person...

Now that was uncalled for.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. In a year or two we will be reading about some poor sap in UK who got taken by this lovely.

Glap baan

[Khun Larry]

Beware of assumption. However can you know the facts from the short detail on the thread ?

What facts? A logical arguement is quickly dismissed.

Mai pen rai ... only way to go

Chookdee