Violent Mugging In Rawai

[LivinginKata]

So send your advices to your embassy to impel these efforts !

Complete waste of time IMHO ....

With this kind of thinking (better do nothing than waste time...) you shure never will have success !

Bagsida

Let me elaborate. If you are lucky your emabssy in Bangkok MIGHT write a letter to the appropriate Thai government department. That department will most likely file the letter. Maybe with some pressure the department will write a letter to the central police authority in Bangkok. Again, most likely filed away. If continue to be lucky then letter to Phuket head of police. Letter filed (in bin). See what I mean.

As for tourists... the average tourist stays in a hotel environment, and is not likely to traveing about in remote areas in the wee small hours. It's mostly long stay folks, DIYs, and backpackers that get into trouble ... AND they should know better.

Quite honestly bad press about crime on Phuket Island would hardly make a dent in tourist numbers, as new tourists come from a diverse (& growing) number of nations.

[Bagsida]

The consul informed him, that there is a discussion about the security problems with the colleagues from some other embassies in BKK and the Thai officials already !

And they also said their influence in these matters is limited.

I really don't like the name calling BTW in the TIP thread, if you don't agree with what somebody writes, at least have the guts to write about that in the thread or by PM, and don't do that in another forum.

I´m not shure you mean me - if yes I wrote my opinion about everything I read here also in TV-Forum - in case I forgot something, please tell me what for post my comment here now.

Bagsida

[Bagsida]

So send your advices to your embassy to impel these efforts !

Complete waste of time IMHO ....

With this kind of thinking (better do nothing than waste time...) you shure never will have success !

Bagsida

Let me elaborate. If you are lucky your emabssy in Bangkok MIGHT write a letter to the appropriate Thai government department. That department will most likely file the letter. Maybe with some pressure the department will write a letter to the central police authority in Bangkok. Again, most likely filed away. If continue to be lucky then letter to Phuket head of police. Letter filed (in bin). See what I mean.

As for tourists... the average tourist stays in a hotel environment, and is not likely to traveing about in remote areas in the wee small hours. It's mostly long stay folks, DIYs, and backpackers that get into trouble ... AND they should know better.

Quite honestly bad press about crime on Phuket Island would hardly make a dent in tourist numbers, as new tourists come from a diverse (& growing) number of nations.

May be you are right - but may be not and it´s possible to change the situation by inform the embassies & tour operator.

If you have a better idea what "we" could do, let us know - but doing nothing is the worst way !

If you would take only 10% of your daily time in TV-forum to send only one message to your embassy it could help not only others.....

Why talk and write so much about all this without any reaction ?

O.k. - now we all know how terrible it was for the victims and how cheating is the treatment in the hospitals so let us wait for the next incindent, hope that somebody else is the victim for can speak about again how terrible the muggings are and do again nothing.

Bagsida

Edited May 20, 2008 by Bagsida

[ozymandious]

Instead of discussing the merits and pitfalls of the Phuket Hospital system, or who's fault/stupidities it is for getting mugged, here's a bit of constructive thinking.

We know where the muggings are taking place. (Can even speculate as to who)

We know the time frame in which the muggings are taking place.

We have a Tourist police force with farang volunteers...whom could easily impersonate an intoxicated freeloading tourist... (see where I'm going with this?)

STING OPERATION!

Good for the law abiding locals (Thai & Farang) , good for the tourism industry, good for the BIB's, good for media coverage, Bad for the Punks.

Everybody wins.

[Bagsida]

............We have a Tourist police force with farang volunteers...whom could easily impersonate an intoxicated freeloading tourist... (see where I'm going with this?)

STING OPERATION!

Good for the law abiding locals (Thai & Farang) , good for the tourism industry, good for the BIB's, good for media coverage, Bad for the Punks.

Everybody wins.

Good idea ! Do you know a volunteer probably will help with his connections and personally ?

Do the volunteers have the power to arrest somebody - are they armed (gun) ?

Bagsida

Edited May 20, 2008 by Bagsida

[ozymandious]

............We have a Tourist police force with farang volunteers...whom could easily impersonate an intoxicated freeloading tourist... (see where I'm going with this?)

STING OPERATION!

Good for the law abiding locals (Thai & Farang) , good for the tourism industry, good for the BIB's, good for media coverage, Bad for the Punks.

Everybody wins.

Good idea ! Do you know a volunteers probably will help with his connectins and personally ?

Bagsida

I honestly wish i had the personal connections to the tourist police to pull this sort of thing off. I however do believe that I have a friend whom works with various embassies and police institutions that I will pose idea to and maybe see if we can take it somewhere.

If any TV members have connections/relationships with the Tourist-police and think that this "sting" idea has any merit, please pass along the idea.

[Sir Burr]

You people are dreaming.

Yes, you might catch the gang, but that isn't going to help the poor volunteer who is lying stabbed / shot / beaten by the side of the road.

Let me ask you a question. Would you personally volunteer to be the bait?

Edited May 20, 2008 by Sir Burr

[Bagsida]

You people are dreaming.

Yes, you might catch the gang, but that isn't going to help the poor volunteer who is lying stabbed / shot / beaten by the side of the road.

Let me ask you a question. Would you personally volunteer to be the bait?

That´s why I ask if he knows a volunteer would do that.....shure, it´s dangerous and I would´nt do it, but may be there is a volunter needs the "kick" !

Bagsida

[Sir Burr]

You people are dreaming.

Yes, you might catch the gang, but that isn't going to help the poor volunteer who is lying stabbed / shot / beaten by the side of the road.

Let me ask you a question. Would you personally volunteer to be the bait?

That´s why I ask if he knows a volunteer would do that.....shure, it´s dangerous and I would´nt do it, but may be there is a volunter needs the "kick" !

Bagsida

And what boss would be stupid enough to give the go ahead for this operation when he would know that he would take the blame if anyone got hurt?

Get real.

[ozymandious]

You people are dreaming.

Yes, you might catch the gang, but that isn't going to help the poor volunteer who is lying stabbed / shot / beaten by the side of the road.

Let me ask you a question. Would you personally volunteer to be the bait?

That´s why I ask if he knows a volunteer would do that.....shure, it´s dangerous and I would´nt do it, but may be there is a volunter needs the "kick" !

Bagsida

And what boss would be stupid enough to give the go ahead for this operation when he would know that he would take the blame if anyone got hurt?

Get real.

The reality is people are getting hurt now!

cops set up stings in countries all over the world, why not here?

Drug buying stings, prostitution stings, murder for hire stings, lately there was the police impostor extortion sting reported in the gazette. Police work is dangerous business.

Edit:Spelling

Edited May 20, 2008 by ozymandious

[Sir Burr]

^

Police get paid to take risks. Volunteers don't.

A farang is needed for the sting.

I expect you, unlike Bagsida, has the courage of his convictions and will volunteer yourself to be the bait?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Sir Burr

[Bagsida]

^

Police get paid to take risks. Volunteers don't.

A farang is needed for the sting.

I expect you, unlike Bagsida, has the courage of his convictions and will volunteer yourself to be the bait?

The local police officers are 95% cowards and not will take any risk, what I can understand a little for a salary of about THB 5,000.- (I heard) - so I think the idea of "ozymandious" to arrest the gang in this way was good, but probable unconvertible because no volunteer wants to be the bait.

I am shure the local police knows the members of the gangs already, may be it´s the son of the neighbour or even a guy from the own family, but if nobody applies pressure to them they won´t do anything against it until Thais become the victims.

That is one of the reasons why you all have to send informations about these criminal incidents to your embassies - I am shure the embassies of many different countries together have much more power than a volunteer bait and the local police together.

May be the gangs will not be arrested, because they will get a warning from the local police in advance, that "something will happen soon", but the muggings maybe could be stopped - I really not understand the discussion about send a message to "my" embassy or not - from what you all scared of ?

In worst case the embassies will not react or will not have enough influence to the Thai officials, but it´s worth a try without anyone gets hurt or will have a lot of work with it !

Bagsida

[LivinginKata]

The local police officers are 95% cowards and not will take any risk, what I can understand a little for a salary of about THB 5,000.- (I heard)

Unfair to make that statement about '95% cowards'. I would say 95% are lazy, and really not interested in community policing. They are mostly all just looking after themselves, fining motorists (for which they get a % cut) to pay for their next promotion. The local Thais avoid policemen at all times. Once (in my first year here) I asked a policemen for directions (much to my wife's horror), and to my amazement he asked me for my papers, and searched the car. No attempt to answer my directions question.

These days a junior policeman start about 8,000 baht/month working up to 15,000 baht/month after 10 years service. On top of that they get their fine commision, up to maximum of about 8,000 baht (??) /month.

[geriatrickid]

Not such a bad idea on the sting operation. If set up properly (target has an earpiece and is under surveillance so he can be warned by observer and target wears light body armour), it would work. All you need is 1 or 2 well publicized pops and the gang will think twice. I doubt that the typical police volunteer in Phuket is capable of this work though. My observation is that they are selected for interpersonal and language skills not for Scerpico qualities or physical strength. The target would have to be quick, agile and alert. The typical police volunteer is a bit too old to do that.

Thank you for your expertise, GK.

I was not clear on my comment.

Is it common then for the bill/insurance coverage to be ensured of payment before surgery even when the patient has a gunshot wound in the leg and a knife wound in his side?

And according to the article, upon arrival at Vichira Hospital, they had to operate immediately. Does that sound like a fairly close call?

I am not a medical field expert and will defer to your expertise.

Of course it is irresponsible and wrong to send an injured person on his way, particularly after there has been a violent crime. So I hope you understand I have no argument as to your core opinion- I agree with you on that. My intent was only to ensure fairness in respect to the hospital. The surgery was delayed 6 hours because of the full stomach, so yes when the patient arrived, surgery had to be fast. (However, I think the newspaper embellished the story somewhat along the lines of heroic Thai intervention to save farang as it blunts the other part of the story about farang getting savagely mugged.)

Unfortunately, in Thailand a for profit facility is just that. The reason that these places are so focused on collections is that bad debts can close down beds.There are no subsidies as is the case in the US where a certain number of indigents will be cared for even at for profit hospitals. Thailand isn't that different from some western countries. In Canada there is a two tier system: One for those that have medicare cards and one for those that do not (foreigners).If you are a foreigner, the first thing they ask you for is health insurance or credit cards. Hospitals will not undertake anything but the most necessary of emergency procedures now.

[Bagsida]

Unfair to make that statement about '95% cowards'. I would say 95% are lazy, and really not interested in community policing. They are mostly all just looking after themselves, fining motorists (for which they get a % cut) to pay for their next promotion. The local Thais avoid policemen at all times. Once (in my first year here) I asked a policemen for directions (much to my wife's horror), and to my amazement he asked me for my papers, and searched the car. No attempt to answer my directions question.

......

O.k. - so the salary is much higher, buy cowards or lazy - they do almost nothing for the security.

The experience you made by asking for the way I think is not typical - I stopped with my pickup on a very busy intersection in the harbour area in BKK (friday 6 p.m.) and asked a police officer for the way to the highway - he stopped the complete traffic for about 3 mins. and explained me how to find the way - I never made a bad experience with the police - not on Phuket and not somewhere else in Thailand.

I also think there are enough police officers on Phuket for ensure the security if they would do something for it.

Bagsida

[Bagsida]

Not such a bad idea on the sting operation. If set up properly (target has an earpiece and is under surveillance so he can be warned by observer and target wears light body armour), it would work. All you need is 1 or 2 well publicized pops and the gang will think twice. I doubt that the typical police volunteer in Phuket is capable of this work though. .........

One more way to do something against the muggings - do you know someone for set such pops and would it be possible for you to organize it ?

Bagsida

[Sir Burr]

You don't want much, do you bagsida?

You're not willing to be the bait yourself, yet, you call the police cowards.

Now you want somebody else to organise and set up a sting. Somebody who is not Thai and not police.

You seem to be very keen to put anybody else, except yourself in harms way.

So, what are you going to personally do? Cheer from the side-lines I suppose.

What colour is the sky on your planet?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Sir Burr

[stevenl]

I´m not shure you mean me - if yes I wrote my opinion about everything I read here also in TV-Forum - in case I forgot something, please tell me what for post my comment here now.

No, I may not agree with you, but you have been upfront about your opinion on both forums. You just left out the comment from the Embassy that there is hardly anything they can do about these things, but I think that is understandable.

[Bagsida]

You don't want much, do you bagsida?

You're not willing to be the bait yourself, yet, you call the police cowards.

Now you want somebody else to organise and set up a sting. Somebody who is not Thai and not police.

So, what are you going to personally do? Cheer from the side-lines I suppose.

What colour is the sky on your planet?

Sorry "Sir Burr" but a other Tip-Member suggested to send informations about the situation to the embassies and I sent 5 min. later a message to the German foreign ministry in Berlin, to the tour operators "TUI" and "Thomas Cook" and to the German TV station "PRO7" - in this case the suggestion came from my side and I started it myself at once - I think I´ve approved already, that I not only speak or write about it and I also not need cheers, but also I not need such unjustified criticism.

The suggestion about set up a sting in the Rawai area is not my suggestion, I don´t know any police officer or volunteer and I don´t know the Rawai area well enough - if I can help shure I will do, but not as a bait - I am only honest.

Have you sent your message to your embassy already ?

Bagsida

[Bagsida]

I´m not shure you mean me - if yes I wrote my opinion about everything I read here also in TV-Forum - in case I forgot something, please tell me what for post my comment here now.

No, I may not agree with you, but you have been upfront about your opinion on both forums. You just left out the comment from the Embassy that there is hardly anything they can do about these things, but I think that is understandable.

O.k. the comment about the answer of the embassy was only one part of the answer they sent to the Tip member, but the consul also not only answered that there is hardly anything they could do about these things - he also wrote that they hope the situation can be improved & that the next update of the travel warnings of the German foreign ministry for Thailand will contain something about the muggings etc. - that was the primary target of the messages to the embassy.

Here the complete letter (in German):

Sehr geehrter Herr...,

ich bedanke mich für Ihren Hinweis.

Wir werden im Zuge der nächsten Aktualisierung der Reisehinweise auf die

Zunahme der Gewaltkriminalität in Thailand, insbesondere in den

Tourismushochburgen hinweisen.

Im EU-Kollegenkreis und mit unseren amerikanischen, australischen und

kanadischen Kollegen haben wir wiederholt darüber gesprochen und auch

der thail. Polizeiführung unsere Besorgnis über diese negative

Entwicklung mitgeteilt und gebeten, für besseren Schutz der Ausländer

Sorge zu tragen.

Unsere Einwirkungsmöglichkeiten sind allerdings nur begrenzt, hoffen

aber dennoch, daß es etwas bewirkt.

Laut Auskunft unseres Honorarkoksuls auf Phuket, Herrn .........,

sollen dort etwa 600 Polizeibeamte zusätzlich benötigt werden.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

........

Bagsida

[moskito]

Not such a bad idea on the sting operation. If set up properly (target has an earpiece and is under surveillance

LOL, under sureveillance ROFL..... in a dark area where nobody is around ....WE NEED

let´s get this straight. The only thing might help is to write to the Embassys, bother them and they will react. If some of the upper people wake up, there is a chance of action in that case.

will never understand why some TV members are so scared about writing mails to their goverments or embassys

[moskito]

another member here wrote that NORMALLY Tourists stay in their hotels during nightime and dont have to be scared

There is a warning on the page of our german Embassy that some of this quality tourists, specially in patong and pattaya are cheated other ways. For excample a saler of faked watches put something in your pocket. After you refuse to pay for it he calls the police which take u in custody or let u go for a amount of ...lets say 100k Baht... if u refuse to that offer, because u feel NOT GUILTY they keep u in jail and offer u an (corupt) atourney .......will u pay or will u stay in a Thaijail for some days, weeks, month ??????

a trick which becomes very common during the past years..... fills the pockets of everybody involved, except the VICTIMs

guess after reading storys like that on the Embassy pages Tourists are more carefull or even think twice, BEFORE paying.

[Bagsida]

......

There is a warning on the page of our german Embassy that some of this quality tourists, specially in patong and pattaya are cheated other ways. For excample a saler of faked watches put something in your pocket. After you refuse to pay for it he calls the police which take u in custody or let u go for a amount of ...lets say 100k Baht... if u refuse to that offer, because u feel NOT GUILTY they keep u in jail and offer u an (corupt) atourney .......will u pay or will u stay in a Thaijail for some days, weeks, month ??????

a trick which becomes very common during the past years..... fills the pockets of everybody involved, except the VICTIMs

guess after reading storys like that on the Embassy pages Tourists are more carefull or even think twice, BEFORE paying.

For those who not believe, here the link :

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo/de/La...tshinweise.html

Bagsida

[Larsbo]

So the police says that we should just stay away from risk arias. ( Rawai - Nai Harn and Sai Yuan )

Rawai is a aria with a lot of expat my self included, living just around the corner.

I uses the road everyday and sometime at night allso.

I do not know what the police think, should I wait in a bar to next morning before I can drive home.

Maybe it is time to put more patrols on the arias where the atackers hide, or we will have to run around with guns

for protection

[ozymandious]

Sir Burr, Perhaps you could enlighten us with your masterful optimism about what you think should be done about the situation...

[Sir Burr]

Sir Burr, Perhaps you could enlighten us with your masterful optimism about what you think should be done about the situation...

I have no solution besides avoiding the area late at night.

One thing I do know is that this so called "sting" operation is even worse than doing nothing. The bait might just get eaten.

Here's a suggestion. Do what the Thais do. Get a petition together signed by all the foreigners in the area, then a bunch of foreigners march to the residence of the Governer of Phuket demanding police action, making sure you have alerted all the media before-hand.

Far better than asking embassys whose main business is trade promotion and far less risky than amateur cop night.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Sir Burr

[bangkokrick]

Ok guys i am planning to bring my teenage kids to Phuket in July for 2 weeks vacation. We were there for the past two years running and we had a great time and we the local Thais were great, even the tuk tuk drivers.

Have things really changed that much and should i be thinking of going elsewhere if things are really this bad?

Cheers, Rick

[tamsin]

another member here wrote that NORMALLY Tourists stay in their hotels during nightime and dont have to be scared

There is a warning on the page of our german Embassy that some of this quality tourists, specially in patong and pattaya are cheated other ways. For excample a saler of faked watches put something in your pocket. After you refuse to pay for it he calls the police which take u in custody or let u go for a amount of ...lets say 100k Baht... if u refuse to that offer, because u feel NOT GUILTY they keep u in jail and offer u an (corupt) atourney .......will u pay or will u stay in a Thaijail for some days, weeks, month ??????

a trick which becomes very common during the past years..... fills the pockets of everybody involved, except the VICTIMs

guess after reading storys like that on the Embassy pages Tourists are more carefull or even think twice, BEFORE paying.

[ade100]

Ok guys i am planning to bring my teenage kids to Phuket in July for 2 weeks vacation. We were there for the past two years running and we had a great time and we the local Thais were great, even the tuk tuk drivers.

Have things really changed that much and should i be thinking of going elsewhere if things are really this bad?

Cheers, Rick

If you are not going to be going round on motor scooters late at night, you will probably be ok. However I have had to take the painful step of telling my friends not to come and visit me in Phuket because I don't want to put their lives at risk.

[Bagsida]

......Here's a suggestion. Do what the Thais do. Get a petition together signed by all the foreigners in the area, then a bunch of foreigners march to the residence of the Governer of Phuket demanding police action, making sure you have alerted all the media before-hand.

Far better than asking embassys whose main business is trade promotion and far less risky than amateur cop night.

Exactly this I suggested on 14. April in the Tip-Forum already (http://www.tip-forum.de/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9506), but the idea to send emails to different embassies in addition is also good and might be helpfull.

I offered my help in writing such a petition in German.

Bagsida