Ai In Thailand

[aiguy]

Oh for the joy of internet anonymity!

I need some advice on a very personal issue. My young wife wants a baby and I've had the snip. In the UK artificial insemination/sperm banks are very common, so I'm hoping this is available in Bangkok too. Could anyone advise me on which hospitals/clinics have this service, the cost and how I'd go about it.

Being farang myself, the sperm would need to be likewise - what records are kept re. donors?

She's also adament that she wants a girl - now, unless technology has leapt forward that much since I left blighty 6 years ago, I'm pretty sure that can be assured, but I could do with confirmation!

Thanks very much in advance for your assistance.

[Riley'sLife]

I am currently exploring the same topic, for the same reasons that you state. I already have 3 children from my previous marriage. I would be willing to have a child with my wife using artificial insemination by donor (AID), but I recently stumbled across another technique called MESA, which enables men like us to have a child using our own sperm, which would clearly be more acceptable.

MESA stands for Microsurgical Epididymal Sperm Aspiration. It is optimal way of obtaining sperm in those men with a reproductive tract blockage (i.e., after a vasectomy, congenital absence of the vas deferens). The epididymis (organ above the testicle where the sperm are stored) is isolated through 1/2 inch incision made in the scrotal skin. An operating microscope is used to examine the very small tubules of the epididymis that contain the sperm. A dilated tubule is opened and the fluid is collected and examined for the presence and quality of sperm. All of the sperm containing fluid is collected and taken to the IVF lab for processing, use and freezing. If the fluid is devoid of sperm or only dead sperm are found, then another area of the epididymis is sampled. This is done until enough sperm are obtained to use and to store for future use.

It is important to save the extra sperm because most patients will not deliver a baby from the first cycle of ICSI. This simple extra step can prevent the patient from having to undergo multiple, future procedures each time sperm are needed. This is also critical for any couple thinking of having more than one child. Mesa allows for the recovery of the best quality and highest quantity of sperm compared with the other techniques. It is also the safest procedure and in our experience produces the least amount of complications, discomfort and swelling. Each step of the procedure is clearly visualized under the microscope and the testicle itself is not entered. Any bleeding can be quickly halted. Most patients recover from MESA within 1 day and can return to work and daily activities. MESA is now performed in an office procedure room equipped with an operating microscope and microsurgical instruments. A local anesthetic known as a spermatic cord block is given to numb the area.

The disadvantage of MESA is mainly the relative unavailability. MESA is usually offered only at centers specializing in the treatment of male infertility because of the need for specialized equipment, an operating suite and a trained infertility microsurgeon. MESA is more cost effective than other techniques because it is usually a one time expense whereas the other sperm retrieval techniques may need to be repeated multiple times. I haven't yet been able to locate a clinic or hospital in Thailand that is able to carry out the procedure. I know it is available in the States and may also be available in the UK.

PM me for more info if you wish.

Regards Rick

[aiguy]

Wow! I hadn't heard of that technology; that certainly would be better than AID. Does anyone know of anywhere in SE Asia that offerts MESA, and the likely cost? Failing that, how about AID with farang donor in Thailand?

Thanks, and thanks a lot Rich for that info.

[Riley'sLife]

Bumrungrad Hospital in Bkk (Fertility Clinic) does MESA, according to their web site. Don't know the costs yet here but in USA it can be as much as $60.000 including all female prep cost up to but not including Delivery (of the baby).

I think it's unlikely AID with a Western Donor would be easy to arrange in Thailand, Donor Screening etc. Another option could be the use of sperm purchased and imported from your homeland. (Google search?..Sperm Bank).

Using your own sperm (sperm aspiration) would seem to be the best way to go if it's possible and not too costly- for so many reasons. Child has matching DNA with you etc.

Check Google for Sperm Aspiration, Vasectomy Reversal, Male Fertility, MESA, PESA, and the one that makes my eyes water...TESA !! (T=Testicular).

Good luck

Rick

[aiguy]

That's really useful information RL. £60K is way beyond my reach, so I'll research the other options and see what I can come up with. Going to England to either get my sperm extracted or finding that of a suitable donor would be feasible. thanks once again Rick.

[coventry]

I had the snip many years ago. Thought I couldn't have children even after 2 reversals. Went to BKK and they did sperm extraction from the testees and now we have a beautiful daughter coming 6 months old. Anyone needing further information please mail me. Cost of full treatment was 180,000 Baht, money, well spent.

Edited May 20, 2008 by coventry

[Riley'sLife]

Aiguy, the cost I gave was $60.000... that's around 30,000 GBP. But I am sure it could be done even cheaper in Thailand.

Coventry, congratulations on your success, especially after having already had two reversal ops. Which Doctor did it for you and which hospital? At 3,000 GBP (180,000Baht) that's one tenth the cost of MESA. Did you have TESA then? Also did the cost include everything for your wife too?

Sounds like this could be the way to go Aiguy, save money on flights back to the UK too!

Cheers Rick

[coventry]

Aiguy, the cost I gave was $60.000... that's around 30,000 GBP. But I am sure it could be done even cheaper in Thailand.

Coventry, congratulations on your success, especially after having already had two reversal ops. Which Doctor did it for you and which hospital? At 3,000 GBP (180,000Baht) that's one tenth the cost of MESA. Did you have TESA then? Also did the cost include everything for your wife too?

Sounds like this could be the way to go Aiguy, save money on flights back to the UK too!

Cheers Rick

If it's a male infertility problem you will only see one particular doctor, as per us. The clinic is on www.nawabutr.com if you care to look it up. They offer a 30% chance of the treatment working. They increase the odds by usually inplanting 3 fertilizes embryos. Luckily it worked first time for us. There are many factors to take into concideration. Has the woman had previous births plus her age etc ?

We started treatment 18 months ago for our presant daughter, so prices may have risen and the cost was inclusive of everything. They gave us 3% discount for cash. Good luck to all that go through IVF

Mesa or Tesa ? I don't recall. Due to the cords not working they extracted sperm direct from the testees using a needle. Don't worry you'll be out cold and wont feel a thing. Just a bit of bruising. No problem.

Edited May 21, 2008 by coventry

[aiguy]

This is all terrific info guys. £3K would just about be my limit. I've also discovered a top hospital in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) is a possibility. I'm actually resident in Cambodia (which has no such technology) and that would be closer - if they admit foreigners.

Coventry - you mentioned fertilized embryos - is that to say they used fertility drugs and extected the eggs from your wife, fertilizing them by IVF? Was that all in the total cost?

FWIW, I'm 46 and was snipped about 8 years ago; my wife is 27 and childless.

many congratulations on your joy there, btw Coventry!

[coventry]

This is all terrific info guys. £3K would just about be my limit. I've also discovered a top hospital in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) is a possibility. I'm actually resident in Cambodia (which has no such technology) and that would be closer - if they admit foreigners.

Coventry - you mentioned fertilized embryos - is that to say they used fertility drugs and extected the eggs from your wife, fertilizing them by IVF? Was that all in the total cost?

FWIW, I'm 46 and was snipped about 8 years ago; my wife is 27 and childless.

many congratulations on your joy there, btw Coventry!

Yes they put my wife on fertility drugs and extracted, I think, 18 eggs of which 14 were acceptable. Yes that was also included in the cost I mentioned. I was snipped aged approx 30. Had 2 reversals aged about 40 and I was 53-4 when treatment was started for our IVF.

The only problem you may have Aiguy is that your wife has never had a child. They will tell you at the clinic that this could be hamper your efforts. But don't let that dis-hearten you. You wont know til you try. Good luck.

[aiguy]

The only problem you may have Aiguy is that your wife has never had a child. They will tell you at the clinic that this could be hamper your efforts. But don't let that dis-hearten you. You wont know til you try. Good luck.

Thanks for the extra info Cov. Can you clarify that last bit? Do you mean they'd be reluctant to do IVF if she isn't infertile? My initial assumption before looking into all this new technology is that I'd have my sperm extracted and it would just be 'swooshed' into her like regular AI. That would be painless for her and cheaper too, but presumably with less chance of initial success. But then if enough of my sperm was saved up, repeat attempts would be straightofrward, no?

I checked that nawabutr website but I don't read Thai, so I'll need to get their info some other way.

You can imagine how excited my missus is about all this. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction - certainly it seems that it won't be necessary to go to England (my family live near Coventry!) to make a baby.

[Riley'sLife]

Aiguy -As far as I am aware, all these techniques (MESA, TESA, PESA - all to do with physical aspiration of sperm from various parts of the male reproductive system) then implement IVF of the female egg. Hope that's correct. That's why in my earlier post I was asking if the costs include for the female side of the business. I have not heard of any other method of fertilisation using sperm aspiration. Again, the reason why MESA is favoured is that, in the long run, and if success is not immediate, the addition sperm harvested by this method will be cryo-stored for future IVF use if the initial IVF is not successful. This obviates the need for further aspiration.

Another consideration, and in addition to the woman's fertility, is the length of time that has elapsed since the snip. The longer the elapsed time, the less chance of it all working and apparently over 15 years makes it quite difficult.

Aiguy, maybe a good idea to use Bumrungrad rather than a Vietnamese hospital?

Thanks for the additional info Coventry very interesting to hear your story too, and a wonderful result for you and your wife.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Rick

[Riley'sLife]

Found this in English it's about PESA and TESA in Bangkok (http://www.smcfertility.com/WebHome/pages/Eng_), dont forget there's also Bumrungrad Fertility Clinic.

www.bangkokmedicaltourism.com/bangkokmedicaltourism/fertility_treatment.htm

Just found this too:-

Jetanin Institute for Assisted Reproduction is the largest fertility

clinic in Thailand.

Jetanin Institute for Assisted Reproduction

5 Soi Chidlom, Ploenchit Road,

Lumpinee, Pathumwan, Bangkok 10300

Tel:+66 (0) 2655 5300-10

Fax:+66 (0) 2655 5313

E-mail: [email protected]

http://www.jetanin.com/main.asp

Success Rates

http://www.jetanin.com/result.htm

Fees

he cost varies between each method, each infertility center and each

country. At Jetanin Hospital the usual cost range from USD 800 - 2,500

or Baht 40,000 - 100,000 for each treatment cycle , excluding the cost

of drugs. When comparing the costs it is important to determine

exactly what is included in the fees.

http://www.jetanin.com/faqs/detail.asp?faq...&faq_next=1

--------------------------------------------

Bumrungrad International Hospital

http://www.bumrungrad.com/

Fertility Center at Bumrungrad International : Dedicated to applying the most

modern technology and expertise to couples needing extra help in

having a child Physicians, surgeons and embryologists specialized in

fertility

On site embryology laboratory

http://www.bumrungrad.com/htm/eng/main.asp...linic/women.asp

LOCATION

Bumrungrad International, 2nd Floor, North Wing

Main Lobby Escalators to the 2nd Floor, turn left to the end of the hallway.

APPOINTMENTS & INQUIRIES

Phone: 66 (0) 2667- 1555

Fax: 66 (0) 2667-1455

Click here to make an appointment

http://www.bumrungrad.com/htm/eng/make/appoint.asp

PRICES & PACKAGES

If you would like assistance in estimating the cost of treatment for

Women's Center services at Bumrungrad International, please request a

quote here:http://www.bumrungrad.com/htm/eng/give.asp

[coventry]

Aiguy -As far as I am aware, all these techniques (MESA, TESA, PESA - all to do with physical aspiration of sperm from various parts of the male reproductive system) then implement IVF of the female egg. Hope that's correct. That's why in my earlier post I was asking if the costs include for the female side of the business. I have not heard of any other method of fertilisation using sperm aspiration. Again, the reason why MESA is favoured is that, in the long run, and if success is not immediate, the addition sperm harvested by this method will be cryo-stored for future IVF use if the initial IVF is not successful. This obviates the need for further aspiration.

Another consideration, and in addition to the woman's fertility, is the length of time that has elapsed since the snip. The longer the elapsed time, the less chance of it all working and apparently over 15 years makes it quite difficult.

Aiguy, maybe a good idea to use Bumrungrad rather than a Vietnamese hospital?

Thanks for the additional info Coventry very interesting to hear your story too, and a wonderful result for you and your wife.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers, Rick

The above isn't strickly true. After a snip the body sees sperm as an invader so it bombards them with antibodies thus after 5 years the sperm tails become deformed. They cannot swim in a straight line. With sperm extraction they actually detatch the tail and inject the head into the egg. The tail serves no purpose other than to get it to the egg. This is what I was told by the doctors. My snip was done about 25 years ago and I've proven to be still fertile.

Aiguy phone the clinic if you can't understand Thai. They speak English, in fact the male fertility doctor worked in Edinburgh for a while and he will phone you back if he's busy. As for your wife not having had a child before. It's nothing to worry about. With a woman that's had child before they at least know her organs work.

[beano2274]

Realise that this topic is now many years old, but

have had a reversal, first patient this year for whom it did not work, my luck. Anyhow, been looking at MESA and TESA as alternatives to another try at reversal, but was told that if I tried MESA or TESA that I could not entertain the possibility of having a reversal afterwards. What I want to know before I have a reversal is if there are sperm there, and it seems that using TESA or MESA is one way to do this. I also heard that they can inject the woman directly, instead of removing eggs from her, a wife's friend was lucky using this method, has anyone got any further information, or has anyone had TESA or MESA with direct injection into their wife.

thanks