Fedora Or Ubuntu

[Richard-BKK]

In a long time I able to freely select where to upgrade too, for years I have being using Fedora Linux. Still I’m complaining, I run Fedora 8 on our main computer, on the other hand it seems that the Ubuntu support community is growing faster then the support for new Fedora distributions.

I not want to point fingers, but basically it seems to past experience that the latest hardware supported by kernel can be found in the latest Fedora distribution. And the latest software level support can be found in the Ubuntu distribution.

There was a time that I needed the latest kernel to support the things I needed, but now-a-days all major distributions have about the same capability.

My question is this; switch my over ten-year experience with Fedora distributions to a 2 year experience with Ubuntu. I have to say that the current Ubuntu 8.04 and Fedora 9 look like top distributions.

So what Fedora 9 or Ubuntu 8.04 and why?”

[slackula]

Sorry to be a little off topic, but I wonder why you have an avatar of the BSD demon, erm.. , *cough* 'compromising' our beloved Tux and are asking about Fedora/Ubuntu?

If you are happier with a *BSD type OS and environment then Slackware is probably the best choice.

Kernel (re-)compilation is not actually that difficult, everything necessary is included in a standard Slackware install, and because Slackware is built on vanilla kernels you can recompile and add in your favourite features without borking everything else. The Slackware packaging system is pretty easy to work out and the Slackware community support is very good because the distro has been around for such a long time.

I tried Fedora for a while (I think it was round version 4 or something), it was pretty neat, but I didn't like the fact that I was basically a guinea pig for RHEL and that I was being told that a development or research project was suitable for serious use.

I played with Ubuntu for a while, it's nice but since I am used to configuring my Slack machines manually I couldn't stand the wizards and lack of su- and Debian way of doing things. I am sure if I had started out on Deb and Ian's distro that would be different, it's purely a matter of personal preference.

/sorry again for the slightly off-topic post

[autonomous_unit]

I sometimes ask myself if I should switch to CentOS instead of Fedora, just to get off the bleeding edge for my servers. However, I find that on the balance, I still want the latest stuff on my laptop, and Fedora is very good for that. Over the years, I've been learning to tolerate the default Fedora configs so I have fewer and fewer post-install steps to tweak the system the way I require it (along with imaging over my home directory space). I've been optionally adding the livna or atrpms repositories on some systems (the former for general media-playing functons, and the latter particularly when I want an easy MythTV install). Since I have to tread water with Fedora for one machine, it is easier to keep upgrading all hosts rather than to start having to manage two different distributions and release cycles.

I've been running Fedora since version 3, if I remember correctly, after many years of Red Hat. I have a small personal server I've upgraded online from Fedora 4 all the way to Fedora 8 over the years (using yum). I just remotely updated my last Fedora 7 straggler to Fedora 8 last week, in preparation for the next cycle, where I start to have a mixture of Fedora 8 and 9...

On the whole, I think Fedora is making nice progress as a product and a community and I see no reason to abandon it, unless I wanted to stabilize and freeze a server with low maintenance, in which case I see CentOS as essentially a stabilized, long-term Fedora branch. The only non-Fedora systems I still play with are OpenWRT for my internet connection! Truth be told, I wish there were Fedora builds for those platforms too, in which case I'd go the effort to get routers with disk or a larger flash memory area!

[dave_boo]

I'm also a fan of the *.rpm distros; particularly SuSE. I've used Slackware before, and I've even got a partition with Ubuntu on it. However, I think that Ubuntu is geared more toward n00bs. While Linux DOES need a distro like that, to attract hardware manufacturers to write drivers if nothing else, I don't believe that in the long run it's going to be overall beneficial if those same people stick with Ubuntu. Ubuntu's security, imho, is only slightly better than Vista's.

Also, as previously said, there's no reason you can't install programs offered in Ubuntu's repositories on Redhat. I've yet to see any program not offering source code (there could be some professional apps, but I have yet to come across them) that you could build them from. However, someone who's been using Linux as long as you have should have no problem doing that.

[Gumballl]

So what Fedora 9 or Ubuntu 8.04 and why?”

I personally do not use either of those distros listed above... I use Fedora 8 and Ubuntu 7.10.

I find both systems to be wonderful, however because Ubuntu is designed to gain mass acceptance, especially with noobs, it's interface tends to be more candy-like. But that is fine with me. I don't want to spend hours trying to setup something that should otherwise already be installed/configured.

Getting use to "apt-get" takes some time to get use to, as I suppose "yum" did back when I first starting FC4. As a "novice" system administrator, I am more familiar with Fedora, and really have never had the need to delve (and hence learn) how Ubuntu is organized. All of the Ubuntu GUIs take care of having to look under the hood.

[Gumballl]

I spent yesterday upgrading my F8 notebook to run F9. So far all seems well. Fortunately I am one of those with an ATI video chip-set. My brother also attempted to install F9, but with his nvidia video chip-set, he had no luck getting the nvidia driver to work with the pre-release of X11-R7.4 (?) which is included with F9.

Anyhow, once I am confident that all is well with F9, then I will update my Ubuntu notebook to run the 8.04 release.

[Gumballl]

Ok, lappie #2 has been updated with Ubuntu 8.04. So far all is well.

[Richard-BKK]

Today it was a good day even it rained, and I had a fight with my girl. What happened, this morning Nvidia made drivers available for X11-R7.4, and finally I can see, touched the performance and functional improvements of release 7.4 of X-Windows.

To be honest, I could not find that much improvements, other some small speed ups...

For the MS-Windows sceptics who sometimes also during a boring moment read this part of the forum, X-Windows is older then MS-Windows. Like everything MS-Windows shows you today, X-Windows was capable to do that long before that.... (I belief I had my first 3D desktop with multiple layers somewhere in 1990...give or take a year...

[BugJackBaron]

I use whatever gives full 64 bit support for nvidia , seemless sound mixing with my ac'97 chip.

Linux is just too hacky to get all of those things working all of the time but I have probably tried all major disros. Last one I really liked was slackware based bluewhite linux. I think opensolaris shows moer promise

thna any linux distro thoough. FreeBSD would be there but they have no Flash-9 support and their java is buggy.

[dave_boo]

BugJackBaron;

You do realise that it is not the OS fault for buggy drivers don't you? Like during that whole Vista launch deal 20% of crashes (according to Microsoft) that were reported were Nvidia's fault. I always download Nvidia drivers from as many IP address as possible, simply so that they can see there is a demand for *Nix drivers. This will only prompt them to write better drivers--or risk losing customers to a company that will support OSS. I've tried both Open Solaris and various versions of *BSD, but I keep gravitating back to Linux, specifically SuSE.

[jackk]

I always download Nvidia drivers from as many IP address as possible, simply so that they can see there is a demand for *Nix drivers.

Good idea ! I will start DDOSing ATI drivers download web page right away, anyone wants to join ?

[slackula]

I always download Nvidia drivers from as many IP address as possible, simply so that they can see there is a demand for *Nix drivers.

Good idea ! I will start DDOSing ATI drivers download web page right away, anyone wants to join ?

That was a little uncalled for dontchathink? The point is to show hardware mfrs that there is a demand for functional Linux drivers, and ATI have always been rather lacking in this regard in my experience.

Many moons ago I had a computer with an ATI card, eventually I just gave up trying to get 3D acceleration working on it and pulled it out to replace with an Nvidia one which was a breeze to configure.

I'm on a Mac right now (which ironically has an ATI card), but if/when I buy another PC it will definitely not have an ATI graphics card in it, and the next Mac I buy will also have an Nvidia card as my way of thanking them for at least making a token effort to support the Linux community.

/saving up for 24" 3.06 Ghz iMac for my B-day present to myself

//will be trying to get some version of Slackware running on it too

[dave_boo]

I always download Nvidia drivers from as many IP address as possible, simply so that they can see there is a demand for *Nix drivers.

Good idea ! I will start DDOSing ATI drivers download web page right away, anyone wants to join ?

That was a little uncalled for dontchathink? The point is to show hardware mfrs that there is a demand for functional Linux drivers, and ATI have always been rather lacking in this regard in my experience.

I actually had a small snicker from it. However I'm a bit of a smarta$$ myself, so I can see how others could construe that wrong.

Many moons ago I had a computer with an ATI card, eventually I just gave up trying to get 3D acceleration working on it and pulled it out to replace with an Nvidia one which was a breeze to configure.

I also used to be an ATI fan, all the way from the RAGE 128 days through the 9800 Pro era. But than Linux started getting games and I got tired of all the incompatablities even under Windows. Also, they didn't use a Linux compatable tuner on their All in Wonder cards which was the final nail in the coffin. Of course, now pretty much neither of the manufacturers have tuners, so it's kind of a moot point.

I'm on a Mac right now (which ironically has an ATI card), but if/when I buy another PC it will definitely not have an ATI graphics card in it, and the next Mac I buy will also have an Nvidia card as my way of thanking them for at least making a token effort to support the Linux community.

Macs seem nice; but I'm not prepared to have the class outlay to own one. Of course, I've not built a OEM machine since 1999; so YMMV.

/saving up for 24" 3.06 Ghz iMac for my B-day present to myself

//will be trying to get some version of Slackware running on it too

[BugJackBaron]

BugJackBaron;

You do realise that it is not the OS fault for buggy drivers don't you? Like during that whole Vista launch deal 20% of crashes (according to Microsoft) that were reported were Nvidia's fault. I always download Nvidia drivers from as many IP address as possible, simply so that they can see there is a demand for *Nix drivers. This will only prompt them to write better drivers--or risk losing customers to a company that will support OSS. I've tried both Open Solaris and various versions of *BSD, but I keep gravitating back to Linux, specifically SuSE.

I realize it but that is not really what I meant when I said linux was too hacky. I have got good nvidia

support from such distros as Vector, Bluewhite-64(a lot of fun!) and Mepis.

My problem has always been sound on basic ac'97 integrated chipset.

Try this: run a java applet(I use jin to play chess) , and SDL game like lbreakout2 and

say Amarok to listen to music and get them to mix all sounds succesfully with no crashes.

Well good luck. Yes I know you can buy a sound card. But that is so 90's and I won't do it just to run an OS nor should anyone else.

Java is oss only so u need a hack like the aoss program - that of course won't work with applets.

Also java applications both 32 and 64 bit have always been unstable for me on linux.(Decaf, jin)

whereas they are fine on sun(no surprise) and even windows.

Sure it is not linux's fault that SUn has crappy java for linux but I just want a something to work.

Solaris ran all the above fine. OS X too probably of course though I can't afford a mac right noiw.

[Richard-BKK]

Cannot see the problem, since a week, that is two weeks after Fedora 9 was introduced. Nvidia released drivers for Fedora 9 32 and 64 bits... And Java Opensource run without any problems. The Flash player are Adobe Acrobat Reader automatic install by adding the Adobe repo information, instruction for that are on the Adobe website.

I tested all four distribution that is both Fedora and Ubuntu in 32 and 64, and I settled with Fedora 9 32 (had some problems with installing MS Windows compatible media codecs) And there is difference if you use less then 4GB internal memory.

The main reason I not went for Ubuntu is the sudo password setup, I did not like it..... (I belief that maybe ex-MSWindows users think different)

[dave_boo]

I agree with Richard-BKK, I've never had issues with Java and Linux whether it was 32 or 64 bit. Also, have you tried to use Jack? Alsa and OSS are both pretty notorious for locking the sound down on a single application. In fact, I've even seen it (ALSA) not allow you to raise or lower the volume with hotkeys while inside a game!

[BugJackBaron]

I agree with Richard-BKK, I've never had issues with Java and Linux whether it was 32 or 64 bit. Also, have you tried to use Jack? Alsa and OSS are both pretty notorious for locking the sound down on a single application. In fact, I've even seen it (ALSA) not allow you to raise or lower the volume with hotkeys while inside a game!

Really? Alsa mixes things very well generally. But I mentioned speicifc test cases that simply won't work in ALSA. Java applets for one. This is because java is OSS based. Now this was on a standard semi modern system of i915 chipset with ac'97n onboard sound mixing. If you have a dedicated sound card these

issues may not be present. I don't know. But the mixing issue is a recognized bug in ALSA forums. It's a bug thats getting to be a decade old.

As for Jack this is for musicians and few distros work with it...from docs i remember reading it sounds

nontrivial to set up. Pulseaudio sounds more promising as it may allow true sound mixing

from ANY source, oss or applet. I have been using various distros with the same applications

for the last 4 years so I know these isssues are real.

[dave_boo]

I agree with Richard-BKK, I've never had issues with Java and Linux whether it was 32 or 64 bit. Also, have you tried to use Jack? Alsa and OSS are both pretty notorious for locking the sound down on a single application. In fact, I've even seen it (ALSA) not allow you to raise or lower the volume with hotkeys while inside a game!

Really? Alsa mixes things very well generally. But I mentioned speicifc test cases that simply won't work in ALSA. Java applets for one. This is because java is OSS based. Now this was on a standard semi modern system of i915 chipset with ac'97n onboard sound mixing. If you have a dedicated sound card these

issues may not be present. I don't know.

My workstation runs an Audigy and my laptop runs an Intel ICH8 "hd audio". Both run Suse 10.3 and both run Jack...easily installable via YaST. Of course, building it from source is much harder, but that's why there's repositories! I haven't used straight ALSA for something like a year, but I do know that mixing WAS a problem with it. But that's the good thing about Jack; you don't have to worry about the sound server doing the mixing.

But the mixing issue is a recognized bug in ALSA forums. It's a bug thats getting to be a decade old.

As for Jack this is for musicians and few distros work with it...from docs i remember reading it sounds

nontrivial to set up. Pulseaudio sounds more promising as it may allow true sound mixing

from ANY source, oss or applet. I have been using various distros with the same applications

for the last 4 years so I know these isssues are real.

FWIW, it looks like Pulseaudio is the standard soundserver on Ubuntu 8.04....maybe you want to give that distro a lookie-loo?

[zzdocxx]

Interesting thread, thanks!