Chiangmai And Tourism

[fiscalist]

Thank you Tywais. And I agree, please keep htis topic clean. It is too valuable for all of us. Thanks in advance.

[Ulysses G.]

I can understand the point of view of those working here trying to make a living, but for those that have retired isn't a less busy, less touristy place what we chose Chiang Mai for?

Chiang Mai has been very touristy and very busy for quite a while.

I never can understand why people who are looking to escape those things don't live someplace like Chiang Rai which is much more laid back and quiet, but still has a lot of things that foreigners desire. They keep coming to Chiang Mai, but seem miserable here.

[mcgriffith]

I can understand the point of view of those working here trying to make a living, but for those that have retired isn't a less busy, less touristy place what we chose Chiang Mai for?

Chiang Mai has been very touristy and very busy for quite a while.

I never can understand why people who are looking to escape those things don't live someplace like Chiang Rai which is much more laid back and quiet, but still has a lot of things that foreigners desire. They keep coming to Chiang Mai, but seem miserable here.

I agree with you, UG. Chiang Rai is much like CM was 20 or so years ago. Altogether a lovely town (like Nan, Mae Hong Son and a few others I could mention in Northern Thailand). I think a lot of the people who are dissatisfied and stressed about life in this ever more bustling and busy town should take a hard look at Chiang Rai.

I first visited Chiang Mai in 1975; it just happened to be Songkran week. Went to the waterfalls on Doi Suthep, did an early prototypical "eco-adventure" type trek to the GT, rode a fast long-tail down the Mae Kok, etc. It was altogether a different time and place than what it is now.....

[vagabond48]

I spent about 4 week last year in Chiang Rai and liked it very much. The women there have certain look that is very attractive. Since it is a quiet town and I was alone, I found it very boring and lonely at night. I can see being there but with a nice GF enjoying a peaceful and quiet life, breathing cleaner air most of the time.

[tipsy]

I can understand the point of view of those working here trying to make a living, but for those that have retired isn't a less busy, less touristy place what we chose Chiang Mai for?

Chiang Mai has been very touristy and very busy for quite a while.

I never can understand why people who are looking to escape those things don't live someplace like Chiang Rai which is much more laid back and quiet, but still has a lot of things that foreigners desire. They keep coming to Chiang Mai, but seem miserable here.

I agree with you, UG. Chiang Rai is much like CM was 20 or so years ago. Altogether a lovely town (like Nan, Mae Hong Son and a few others I could mention in Northern Thailand). I think a lot of the people who are dissatisfied and stressed about life in this ever more bustling and busy town should take a hard look at Chiang Rai.

I first visited Chiang Mai in 1975; it just happened to be Songkran week. Went to the waterfalls on Doi Suthep, did an early prototypical "eco-adventure" type trek to the GT, rode a fast long-tail down the Mae Kok, etc. It was altogether a different time and place than what it is now.....

Fair enough, but i wasnt looking for an escape compared to most. And ok CM has been busy for a long time but I have spent the last 5 years in BKK> CM to me is and oasis, a wonderful place. Your are talking about the difference between CM and CR ........ I see that as being 100% different to CM & BKK. And to UG I am far from miserable. I love it here, try to catch me without a smile on my face ! From where i have lived before this IS quiet and less touristy, which is why i love it so much. I would never want it to get more busy or change. Ok i haven't seen 10 years of CM change, but if I had it would end in a fight as the last posts (that were removed) ended. So just giving my point of view, we can all understand that right?

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, my comments were not directed specifically at you tipsy, although your post brought them to mind. For one thing, for all I knew, you might have been here far longer than me when it wasn't so busy.

I am just wondering out loud why so many foreigners come here looking for a less busy place with few tourists, but move to Chiang Mai and ignore Chiang Rai which has all of those things with lots of amenities for foreigners. It is something that I've wondered about for many years.

[vagabond48]

I am just wondering out loud why so many foreigners come here looking for a less busy place with few tourists, but move to Chiang Mai and ignore Chiang Rai which has all of those things with lots of amenities for foreigners. It is something that I've wondered about for many years.

it's the old adage, "I am want my the cake and eat it too"

some of us want the diversity and excitement of a large city but with a sense of quiet and peacefulness. I know, we can move 10 to 20k outside of CM. I think about that but I would need to change my mindset from bicycling to motorcycling. I could be in and out of CM 2 to 5 times a day. That's a lot of local cycling. I'm just a restless soul I guess.

Edited May 29, 2008 by vagabond48

[PeaceBlondie]

I just remembered that I almost flew to Chiang Rai (from southernmost Mexico!) in 2000. I nearly bought the airline tickets. Knew nothing about its comparative size to Chiang Mai, since I would have worked in a tiny Akha village on the Burmese border. But for all its hype, the census figures tell us that CMai does not even have a half million people in amphur muang, even if you include the uncountable tourists. You can live in Mae Hong Son (amphur muang), or Saraphi.

[PlaShadow]

I just remembered that I almost flew to Chiang Rai (from southernmost Mexico!) in 2000. I nearly bought the airline tickets. Knew nothing about its comparative size to Chiang Mai, since I would have worked in a tiny Akha village on the Burmese border. But for all its hype, the census figures tell us that CMai does not even have a half million people in amphur muang, even if you include the uncountable tourists. You can live in Mae Hong Son (amphur muang), or Saraphi.

According to Wikipedia less then 250.000 people live in Chiang Mai city it self, with nearly total of 1 million counting the all the districts and Lampun ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai_Metropolitan_Area ). However I feel those speculations on population somewhat dodgy, as only a fraction of workers from out of town (meaning outside of Chiang Mai valley) bother to register here. I am sure, given my own experience, that the ratio for each local/registered is 2 to 1 from out of town.

[fiscalist]

Thank you all for your replies.

Back to my question.

If tourism will fall down, do you think "the old CM" will come back? I personally don't think so. But what will happen to CM? What will happen whit the rent, how many people are involved with tourism and what will happen to them?

[Ulysses G.]

Don't get too worried. Since I've been in business, we have survived one calamity after another that was supposed to destroy tourism, including SARS and The Bird Flu. You have to ignore all that and do the best job that you can.

The 'old" Chiang Mai will never come back, but just a few years ago Chiang Mai was an up and coming tourist destination thanks to our friend Mr. Thaksin putting so much money and effort into it. Many people resent him, but he went all out for the city of Chiang Mai.

Now that his people are back in power, I'm hoping that he will convince them to help us like he did!

Edited May 29, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Mapguy]

Why should I care about the business success of Joe Blow or if airlines are coming here. I could care less, but I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then.

Well,we certainly can't turn the clock back. And I would wish the "Joe Blows" of Chiang Mai success if they'd get their act together to actually improve Chiang Mai as a destination. It seems instead that many of the local entrepreneurs and outside investors, including farang, have been intent on killing the golden goose.

There was an article in The Bangkok Post that tourism in the North will be heavily promoted this year and in succeeding years. There were a few summary statistics about the dropoff in business (20% last year). Those living adjacent to and south of the airport will be thrilled to read the article!

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/15Jun2008_news13.php

Lanna culture seems to have been overwhelmed by gigantic billboards and sidewalk signs for Burger King. The natural beauty is barely visible during the last half of the high season (February - April). And that's not to mention the serious public health problem caused by the agricultural burning that is compounded throughout the year by routine refuse burning and the increased pollution caused by poorly maintained vehicles and heavy traffic. The traffic police don't wear face masks because they are afraid of getting chapped lips.

The goal for tourism is to attract more tourists and to have them stay longer. What for?

There are certainly other important external political and economic factors that have been affecting tourism, but Chiang Mai needs to heal itself.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Mapguy

[Ulysses G.]

Lanna culture seems to have been overwhelmed by gigantic billboards and sidewalk signs for Burger King.

Forgive me, but I've never thought of Chiang Mai as being very pretty town and the giant billboards and signs have been here way longer than I have. Personally, I prefer Burger King signs to all the one's with dour politicians in Military uniforms that are all over the place.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Greenside]

I can understand the point of view of those working here trying to make a living, but for those that have retired isn't a less busy, less touristy place what we chose Chiang Mai for?

Given the double digit inflation they say is just around the corner (and I believe them) maybe there are more than a few folks retired on fairly fixed incomes who can now see the need to get earning again before too long. Just a thought...

[Jefferson]

Why should I care about the business success of Joe Blow or if airlines are coming here. I could care less, but I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then. [...] Of course I realize it's all a dream.

It doesn't have to be a dream. Lamphun, Phayao, Nan, Phrae, Mae Hong Son, Loei, and especially Khon Kaen are ALREADY like Chiang Mai was in 1986. There's an answer to your hopes in there.

Also, I don't doubt that Chiang Mai 1986 was a better fit for the "you-22-years-ago" and that you had a great time then. However is it also a better fit for the "you-rightnow"? People do change, as do places, and often people change even more themselves than the place. I know I did.

I spent about 4 week last year in Chiang Rai and liked it very much. The women there have certain look that is very attractive. Since it is a quiet town and I was alone, I found it very boring and lonely at night. I can see being there but with a nice GF enjoying a peaceful and quiet life, breathing cleaner air most of the time.

You won't be breathing cleaner air. Chiang Rai suffers the same (or worse!) from the yearly dry-season smoke/smog. I don't want to do this discussion again, but the numbers from the PCD don't lie. Also I suspect CHianG Rai may experience a boom, soon. Not in tourism per se (coz really, what has the place to offer but false promises) but in trade and industry. If highways and river connections to China start happening then this will benefit Chiang Rai, where the main highway #1 goes. Chiang Mai is in a separate valley. (So that 's a good thing for anyone pining for "Chiang Mai-1986", in case anyone's in doubt. )

If tourism will fall down, do you think "the old CM" will come back? I personally don't think so. But what will happen to CM? What will happen whit the rent, how many people are involved with tourism and what will happen to them?

The old Chiang Mai will never come back. It'll develop regardless. It'll become an even more bustling metropolitan area, swallowing Mae Rim, Hang Dong and all those into one big city that's however still far better planned and more livable than Bangkok. So if you like cities, then there's good things to come, because Chiang Mai will become the Best City in Thailand, if it isn't already. And that in itself could attract tourists.

[SomchaiCNX]

Don't get too worried. Since I've been in business, we have survived one calamity after another that was supposed to destroy tourism, including SARS and The Bird Flu. You have to ignore all that and do the best job that you can.

The 'old" Chiang Mai will never come back, but just a few years ago Chiang Mai was an up and coming tourist destination thanks to our friend Mr. Thaksin putting so much money and effort into it. Many people resent him, but he went all out for the city of Chiang Mai.

Now that his people are back in power, I'm hoping that he will convince them to help us like he did!

Taksin with his Ideas off Mass Destruction? You must be joking.

Each time he had an idea about tourism in CNX (and other places) figures went down for the people who have been working hard to make responsible tourism better for a long time and business went up for people who where close to him.

[cmsally]

Having spent the day in Lamphun yesterday, I would say if you want to live in a place similar to Chiang Mai of 20-30 yrs ago then look no further. All you have to do is move down the road.

[sabaijai]

Why should I care about the business success of Joe Blow or if airlines are coming here. I could care less, but I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then. [...] Of course I realize it's all a dream.

It doesn't have to be a dream. Lamphun, Phayao, Nan, Phrae, Mae Hong Son, Loei, and especially Khon Kaen are ALREADY like Chiang Mai was in 1986. There's an answer to your hopes in there.

Also, I don't doubt that Chiang Mai 1986 was a better fit for the "you-22-years-ago" and that you had a great time then. However is it also a better fit for the "you-rightnow"? People do change, as do places, and often people change even more themselves than the place. I know I did.

I spent about 4 week last year in Chiang Rai and liked it very much. The women there have certain look that is very attractive. Since it is a quiet town and I was alone, I found it very boring and lonely at night. I can see being there but with a nice GF enjoying a peaceful and quiet life, breathing cleaner air most of the time.

You won't be breathing cleaner air. Chiang Rai suffers the same (or worse!) from the yearly dry-season smoke/smog. I don't want to do this discussion again, but the numbers from the PCD don't lie. Also I suspect CHianG Rai may experience a boom, soon. Not in tourism per se (coz really, what has the place to offer but false promises) but in trade and industry. If highways and river connections to China start happening then this will benefit Chiang Rai, where the main highway #1 goes. Chiang Mai is in a separate valley. (So that 's a good thing for anyone pining for "Chiang Mai-1986", in case anyone's in doubt. )

If tourism will fall down, do you think "the old CM" will come back? I personally don't think so. But what will happen to CM? What will happen whit the rent, how many people are involved with tourism and what will happen to them?

The old Chiang Mai will never come back. It'll develop regardless. It'll become an even more bustling metropolitan area, swallowing Mae Rim, Hang Dong and all those into one big city that's however still far better planned and more livable than Bangkok. So if you like cities, then there's good things to come, because Chiang Mai will become the Best City in Thailand, if it isn't already. And that in itself could attract tourists.

Would agree with your list except for Khon Kaen, which feels pretty heavily developed to me, relative to the others. I believe KK is more densely populated than CM as well. Personally I'd put Lampang at the top of the list. Far nicer than Lamphun, for my tastes. And you're right, the air in Ch Rai is often worse in the hot season - more burning.

[jaideeguy]

"I hope to see Chiang Mai go back to what it was like in 1986, when I first showed up. It was a nicer town then."

Yeah, but no internet, tv, thaivisa, whole wheat bread, decent wines, etc.

It must have been a more charming town then, but most of the world was better then except for the above. I still think that CM is the best place to live in LOS when you balance the conveniences and lack of traffic and the cost of living and general friendliness of people outside the city. Seems that the further you get from the city center, the more like the 'old CM' it is.

[ThaiPauly]

The PM was in town last Saturday and said he was concerned that business was down.

His answer is to build a National Convention Centre here and apparantly we need far more hotels...there just ain't enough rooms to cater for all the extra tourists and businessmen that will be decending on our city in droves

A spokesman for the Tourism Authority in CM said that hotel occupancy rates at present were runnng at around 20% of capacity

He went on to add that if CM is to become a really attractive tourist destination then we need way more international flights coming in than at present (Source Bangkok Post)

If the PM says we need more hotels then obviously we do!!

A freind of mine who runs a Golf Tour Company says that there has been a massive shift in the amount of clients he has coming to LOS now prefering Pattaya to CM . 75% of his clients used to come to CM with 25% going to Pattaya, now its the other way round and the bookings he has for next year show a similar pattern Overall though his total bookings over last year are up, great for Thailand but not for CM

[anonymouse]

If it was known what the future for Chiang Mai and Tourism is likely to be all the business's would be selling up or expanding depending on the outcome

There is just no way of knowing, as UG pointed out we have had many scares such as the bird flu, coups and the SARS virus that have put tourist off in the past, all unknown's.

I think the busiest time I've seen it up here was around the time of the Tsunami with tourists avoiding the coastal areas.

Without sounding to gloomy, who know's what's around the corner.

[Priceless]

The PM was in town last Saturday and said he was concerned that business was down.

His answer is to build a National Convention Centre here and apparantly we need far more hotels...there just ain't enough rooms to cater for all the extra tourists and businessmen that will be decending on our city in droves

A spokesman for the Tourism Authority in CM said that hotel occupancy rates at present were runnng at around 20% of capacity

He went on to add that if CM is to become a really attractive tourist destination then we need way more international flights coming in than at present (Source Bangkok Post)

If the PM says we need more hotels then obviously we do!!

A freind of mine who runs a Golf Tour Company says that there has been a massive shift in the amount of clients he has coming to LOS now prefering Pattaya to CM . 75% of his clients used to come to CM with 25% going to Pattaya, now its the other way round and the bookings he has for next year show a similar pattern Overall though his total bookings over last year are up, great for Thailand but not for CM

You have to realize that the law of supply and demand (like so many others) is not being enforced in Thailand

/ Priceless

[papajohn]

The PM was in town last Saturday and said he was concerned that business was down.

His answer is to build a National Convention Centre here and apparantly we need far more hotels...there just ain't enough rooms to cater for all the extra tourists and businessmen that will be decending on our city in droves

A spokesman for the Tourism Authority in CM said that hotel occupancy rates at present were runnng at around 20% of capacity

He went on to add that if CM is to become a really attractive tourist destination then we need way more international flights coming in than at present (Source Bangkok Post)

If the PM says we need more hotels then obviously we do!!

A freind of mine who runs a Golf Tour Company says that there has been a massive shift in the amount of clients he has coming to LOS now prefering Pattaya to CM . 75% of his clients used to come to CM with 25% going to Pattaya, now its the other way round and the bookings he has for next year show a similar pattern Overall though his total bookings over last year are up, great for Thailand but not for CM

You have to realize that the law of supply and demand (like so many others) is not being enforced in Thailand

/ Priceless

Hello folks, I have the numbers for tourists to CM

for 2006 to 2007 from TAT. The list is called " Guest

Arrivals at Accommodation Establishments".

The list breaks out by country of the visitor. There are 37 countries on the list, and a catagory called

" other". It gives the number from each country and + or - in % from 2006 and 2007.

For example : UK 2006--120,086

UK 2007--87,873 -26.82

USA 2006--248,404

USA 2007--189,765 -23.61

Canada 2006--34,137

Canada 2007--27,395 -19.75

China 2006 --47,039

China 2007 --31,089 -33.91

on the bright side :

Germany 2006-- 87,520

Germany 2007--106,415 +21.59

Italy 2006--27,564

Italy 2007--30,491 +10.62

India 2006--13,433

India 2007--15,419 +14.78

Korea 2006--29,593

Korea 2007--35,904 +21.33

Just some datum on topic. Sawadee Kup

[Priceless]

Hello folks, I have the numbers for tourists to CM

for 2006 to 2007 from TAT. The list is called " Guest

Arrivals at Accommodation Establishments".

The list breaks out by country of the visitor. There are 37 countries on the list, and a catagory called

" other". It gives the number from each country and + or - in % from 2006 and 2007.

For example : UK 2006--120,086

UK 2007--87,873 -26.82

USA 2006--248,404

USA 2007--189,765 -23.61

Canada 2006--34,137

Canada 2007--27,395 -19.75

China 2006 --47,039

China 2007 --31,089 -33.91

on the bright side :

Germany 2006-- 87,520

Germany 2007--106,415 +21.59

Italy 2006--27,564

Italy 2007--30,491 +10.62

India 2006--13,433

India 2007--15,419 +14.78

Korea 2006--29,593

Korea 2007--35,904 +21.33

Just some datum on topic. Sawadee Kup

Most interesting, thank you very much! How/Where did you get hold of the numbers? If you have them in digital form, I would very much appreciate a PM with the data I am interested in looking at the correlation between arrivals in Thailand vs arrivals in Chiang Mai. There is a discussion about whether CM has been harder hit than other destinations which could get closer to being resolved.

/ Priceless

[papajohn]

Hello folks, I have the numbers for tourists to CM

for 2006 to 2007 from TAT. The list is called " Guest

Arrivals at Accommodation Establishments".

The list breaks out by country of the visitor. There are 37 countries on the list, and a catagory called

" other". It gives the number from each country and + or - in % from 2006 and 2007.

For example : UK 2006--120,086

UK 2007--87,873 -26.82

USA 2006--248,404

USA 2007--189,765 -23.61

Canada 2006--34,137

Canada 2007--27,395 -19.75

China 2006 --47,039

China 2007 --31,089 -33.91

on the bright side :

Germany 2006-- 87,520

Germany 2007--106,415 +21.59

Italy 2006--27,564

Italy 2007--30,491 +10.62

India 2006--13,433

India 2007--15,419 +14.78

Korea 2006--29,593

Korea 2007--35,904 +21.33

Just some datum on topic. Sawadee Kup

Most interesting, thank you very much! How/Where did you get hold of the numbers? If you have them in digital form, I would very much appreciate a PM with the data I am interested in looking at the correlation between arrivals in Thailand vs arrivals in Chiang Mai. There is a discussion about whether CM has been harder hit than other destinations which could get closer to being resolved.

/ Priceless

Hi Priceless, Sorry no digital, just a print out from TAT. I only have

figures for CM. How you ask? Boyish charm , works every time

Where ? at the TAT office by the river. I forgot to mention the largest

group of visitors to CM are Thai, 3,601,737--+ 1.75 Don't forget to smile

[Mapguy]

Hello folks, I have the numbers for tourists to CM

for 2006 to 2007 from TAT. The list is called " Guest

Arrivals at Accommodation Establishments".

The list breaks out by country of the visitor. There are 37 countries on the list, and a catagory called

" other". It gives the number from each country and + or - in % from 2006 and 2007.

For example : UK 2006--120,086

UK 2007--87,873 -26.82

USA 2006--248,404

USA 2007--189,765 -23.61

Canada 2006--34,137

Canada 2007--27,395 -19.75

China 2006 --47,039

China 2007 --31,089 -33.91

on the bright side :

Germany 2006-- 87,520

Germany 2007--106,415 +21.59

Italy 2006--27,564

Italy 2007--30,491 +10.62

India 2006--13,433

India 2007--15,419 +14.78

Korea 2006--29,593

Korea 2007--35,904 +21.33

Just some datum on topic. Sawadee Kup

Most interesting, thank you very much! How/Where did you get hold of the numbers? If you have them in digital form, I would very much appreciate a PM with the data I am interested in looking at the correlation between arrivals in Thailand vs arrivals in Chiang Mai. There is a discussion about whether CM has been harder hit than other destinations which could get closer to being resolved.

/ Priceless

Hi Priceless, Sorry no digital, just a print out from TAT. I only have

figures for CM. How you ask? Boyish charm , works every time

Where ? at the TAT office by the river. I forgot to mention the largest

group of visitors to CM are Thai, 3,601,737--+ 1.75 Don't forget to smile

Good question about comparing Chiang Mai and Thailand stats.

Otherwise, compliments to Priceless for his intelligent homework.

Priceless'es contributions --- although I don't always agree with his slant --- beat hel_l out of the idle speculation and meaningless chit chat that too often characterizes this forum. Best hamburger?! MINE!! But I will never share the secret because it is my sainted grandmother's recipe! Macwhatever would simply die for it!! Anyway, Macwhatever will die much more quickly of high cholesterol induced cardiac arrest long before I will give it up. Burgerking?! Never mind!

[papajohn]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.

So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

I think you have a very valid and interesting point: Being farang, we tend to overlook the largest groups of foreign visitors to Thailand. According to the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) there were in 2007 the following numbers of visitors from a number of Asian countries (TAT's source is the Immigration Bureau):

Malaysia: 1,551,959 CM 2007--130,449 2006--108,599 +20.12

Japan: 1,248,700 CM 2007--95,383 2006--125,360 -23.91

South Korea: 1,075,516 CM--2007--35,904 2006--29,593+21.33

China: 1,003,141 CM--2007--31,089 2006--47,039 -33.91

Compare those numbers to the top four "farang" countries:

United Kingdom: 746,422 see above

Australia: 638,126 CM 2007--66,748 2006--70,795 -5.72

USA: 623,638 see above

Germany: 537,200 see above

I think we have to realise that in comparison we are small fry

/ Priceless

Yes, and I think if you dig further you will find that significant growth in recent years is from the Asian countries except perhaps Malaysia due to the problems in the south.

Priceless, forgot about this early post, just some additional numbers

for you to crunch

[Gonzo the Face]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.

So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

I think you have a very valid and interesting point: Being farang, we tend to overlook the largest groups of foreign visitors to Thailand. According to the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) there were in 2007 the following numbers of visitors from a number of Asian countries (TAT's source is the Immigration Bureau):

Malaysia: 1,551,959 CM 2007--130,449 2006--108,599 +20.12

Japan: 1,248,700 CM 2007--95,383 2006--125,360 -23.91

South Korea: 1,075,516 CM--2007--35,904 2006--29,593+21.33

China: 1,003,141 CM--2007--31,089 2006--47,039 -33.91

Compare those numbers to the top four "farang" countries:

United Kingdom: 746,422 see above

Australia: 638,126 CM 2007--66,748 2006--70,795 -5.72

USA: 623,638 see above

Germany: 537,200 see above

I think we have to realise that in comparison we are small fry

/ Priceless

Yes, and I think if you dig further you will find that significant growth in recent years is from the Asian countries except perhaps Malaysia due to the problems in the south.

Priceless, forgot about this early post, just some additional numbers

for you to crunch

Not that I disagree with the above, I would like to see some financial stats as well. Visitors average expenditure is of more import to me than the individual number. What I am saying is , how much does individual Joe Blo from Europe spend vs. how much does individual Joe Blo from Asia spend. To me its more important that one group of customers who average spending 1000 baht as opposed to four customers who spend 250 baht average.

JMHO

Gonzo

[Bluelotus]

Seems I recall that the average duration of a tourist stay in Chiang Mai to be less than 2 days.

[papajohn]

The future of tourism here is other Asian. If you only think farang, you're missing a lot. There are thousands of other Asians who come, but because they look a bit like Thais it does not register.

So I personally don't think tourism is going down at all.

Just look at all the new vehicle rental places / hotels / ghouses / restaurants / bars / massage places etc. They all opened because there was business there. In low season many of them struggle & don't we all in low season - tell us something new.

Also some of my mates with travel offices for 10 yrs are having their best years, & their customers are mainly farang.

So again I don't think tourism is going down - the volume is still there, but the market's changing & so the businesses need to change to keep up with the times.

I think you have a very valid and interesting point: Being farang, we tend to overlook the largest groups of foreign visitors to Thailand. According to the TAT (Tourism Authority of Thailand) there were in 2007 the following numbers of visitors from a number of Asian countries (TAT's source is the Immigration Bureau):

Malaysia: 1,551,959 CM 2007--130,449 2006--108,599 +20.12

Japan: 1,248,700 CM 2007--95,383 2006--125,360 -23.91

South Korea: 1,075,516 CM--2007--35,904 2006--29,593+21.33

China: 1,003,141 CM--2007--31,089 2006--47,039 -33.91

Compare those numbers to the top four "farang" countries:

United Kingdom: 746,422 see above

Australia: 638,126 CM 2007--66,748 2006--70,795 -5.72

USA: 623,638 see above

Germany: 537,200 see above

I think we have to realise that in comparison we are small fry

/ Priceless

Yes, and I think if you dig further you will find that significant growth in recent years is from the Asian countries except perhaps Malaysia due to the problems in the south.

Priceless, forgot about this early post, just some additional numbers

for you to crunch

Not that I disagree with the above, I would like to see some financial stats as well. Visitors average expenditure is of more import to me than the individual number. What I am saying is , how much does individual Joe Blo from Europe spend vs. how much does individual Joe Blo from Asia spend. To me its more important that one group of customers who average spending 1000 baht as opposed to four customers who spend 250 baht average.

JMHO

Gonzo

average expenditure (baht/person/day)

Thai---2,399.66

Foreigners-----3,239.56