dalmatian Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I have just been denied a 60 day tourist visa at the Thai Embassy in Manila, Philippines. For info I am British, 48 years of age and married to a British woman of 34 years. We have been living in Thailand since Jan 13, 2003 when we entered on 60 day visas. After the 60 days we left the country for a holiday in Philippines but entered back into Thailand on March 15 for a 30 day stay as we were leaving for UK in April. In UK we again got a 60 day visa (no problems there and entered Thailand 27 April) which we extended at Pattaya immigration for a further 30 days. We then took a trip to Philippines July 24 whereupon we have just found out that our application for a 60 day tourist visa has been denied. The reason given is that we have had too many 60 day visas issued already this year. Neither of us is working (luckily no need to) and our intention was to stay in Thailand and then get a retirement visa when I reach 50. I have explained this to the embassy staff who said when I decide to buy a house and can confirm this they will consider a 60 day visa at a later time. As part of my application I explained my future intentions and explained that we are happily staying longterm in a condo in Jomtien Beach and buying a house/condo may be something to do at a later date. I also left them my flight tickets back to Thailand as well as a copy of my Thai Farmers bank book showing 250,000 baht. This is apart from the 250,000 we have already spent and which I mentioned to the staff at the embassy (1)I am interested to know if anybody else has had an experience such as mine (I certainly would not recommend the Philippines for a visa run) and also (2) would like to understand whether this rejection is likely to have a negative affect on any future applications for a 60 day tourist visa at any other embassys. I am very upset at this rejection and it has changed my view of Thailand as a longterm residential possibility. What with the recent topics about Thai visa fee increases and what Thaksin is trying to achieve and then now this rejection I am a little depressed and will consider my future more once I have returned to Thailand on Sunday 03 Aug. (3) Can I get any where by going to the Pattaya Immigration to plead my case. Dalmatian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I have not had much co-operation from the embassy in Manila previously, although I have not experienced a problem such as the one you describe. I think on this occassion, your experience can be put down to bad luck. I don't think shouting to the immigration officials here will assist you in changing the embassy's stance. Hope you are able to resolve this soon though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Wash and change the passport to a brand new one. Don't forget to take copies of the relevant pages first (main page, TM card and entry stamps page). Voila! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenUdon Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 George I think the point he is making, is does he WANT to stay in a country that makes life so bloody difficult, for no good reason? Like many others now, he will probably take their money elsewhere, to countries who are only too happy to welcome long stay farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Like many others now, he will probably take their money elsewhere, to countries who are only too happy to welcome long stay farangs. And those countries are? ??? We seem to be quick to say this but (1) do we really want to stay in these countries? (2) are there any with lower requirements? Might make a good project for someone inclined to gather the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmatian Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 It's the day after I got refused and maybe the mind is more clear and less irritable. The only good thing is that I got my 600 pesos back for the rejection. I agree that there is no point going to Pattaya immigration so it looks like I will need to do the trip to the border next month but the cost will get annoying let alone the inconvenience of doing the day trip. I know that I can give my passport to the small room next to the immigration office in Pattaya but I would rather do things the correct way. I have only good intentions (don't laugh) in staying in Thailand as I have been here many times but as has been said previously on numerous e-mails the Thai goverment seems only to want short stay tourists and not long stayers. I know it could be a case of bad luck but this should not be the case, there should be hard and fast rules enabling me to be satisfied that I will receive a tourist visa if I meet the criteria. I don't understand the logic but after getting ripped off trying to bring in bona fide cargo (in April) and now an unreasonable rejection of a tourist visa I am slightly miffed. Yes there are other options for retirement other than Thailand but it comes down to what you want to do in the country. For me it is a straight choice of feeling welcomed without provocation or hassle. If I were single then maybe it limits my choice but I have the right to believe that my money wil go to a country that welcomes me and my wife. I will bide my time and weigh up the pros and cons but that will also be spent checking on the options in Malaysia/Vietnam and Philippines where it appears they are more than happy to see me land in their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 mentioning your ideas about buying a house or condo mightn't have done your cause a lot of good...only a condo for farangs a house acquisition is a no no. You say you are 48 years and have been married for 34 years .....my maths are not superb but that saw you signing up at 14 hmmmm an error or a young start ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Like many others now, he will probably take their money elsewhere, to countries who are only too happy to welcome long stay farangs. And those countries are? ??? We seem to be quick to say this but (1) do we really want to stay in these countries? (2) are there any with lower requirements? Might make a good project for someone inclined to gather the facts. Cambodia. A lot of expats there. A lot of businesses too owned ny farangs. Siam Reap comes to mind. The place is getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterfly Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 GeorgeI think the point he is making, is does he WANT to stay in a country that makes life so bloody difficult, for no good reason? Like many others now, he will probably take their money elsewhere, to countries who are only too happy to welcome long stay farangs. yeah, like Cambodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenUdon Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Lopburi3 It is VERY noticeable how the admin come out in force to jump on any attempt to comment on the REAL situation regarding long term farangs in Thailand, and the attitude of the Thai Govt. The alternatives which you know very well are as stated above, and obviously known by people who are not quite so Thai indoctrinated :- Malaysia - Silver Hair scheme specifically designed to ENCOURAGE foreigners and to make the transition easier, Phillipines - under normal circumstances MUCH more welcoming, Vietnam, who are really getting their act together, and showing some degree of intelligence in seeing that a good degree of their future prosperity depends on tourism, and long term residence of foreigners, and Cambodia. In fact when you think about it, just about ANY other SE Asian country is a more attractive proposition than Thailand! Have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singa-traz Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Let's all move to Singapore ! - They Welcome Foreign Talent - Best Infrastructure (Best Airport in the World) - No or litlle traffic Jam - The Food is Good - The Money is Good - You can get PR very easily And the cost of Living is not so high ... IF: - you don't drink - you don't go out - you stay in an HDB - you don't own a car - ... Better die quickly ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I am not connected in any fashion with this site or any other and do not have any reason to lie about conditions. I tell it as I see it; and have seen it for over 30 years. You should check further on your suggested alternatives and see what is required. The fact there are no medical facilities in either Viet Nam or Cambodia even close to international quality would rule them out for most retirements. Malaysia and Philippines require much higher money in the bank. But do keep searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger13 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Lopburi, The Word "Administrator" in the Box on the Left of your Posts does tend to contradict you - don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Oh yes, Singapore is the best in this asian region, really fantastic and English speaking nation. Another alternative is called Malaysia My Second Home. Try this website: www.imi.gov.my/myshe.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 The Word "Administrator"in the Box on the Left of your Posts does tend to contadict you - don't you think? Only that the owner gives titles to various posters, probably basied on time here and number/content of posts. I just post here like anyone else; as an exchange of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmatian Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 I have read all the replies and I appreciate all the comments. I will say that as a person slightly pissed off with the inability to get a Thai visa I still love the Thai way of life but I don't want to be part of a way of life that says I am not right for Thailand. Now if I am single I would be deperate to stay in Thailand for what the #### does any other country offer. I did live in Philippines for 4 years between 89 and 93 and my god did I have a good time. You can live in the Philippines for a year for at least half the visa price that Thailand charges and you don't need to leave the country in that year. (Expensive in Philippines, it's just not true). I can appreciate all the comments, yes Singapore is expensive but what a beautiful place to be. Malaysia has it's silverhair offer and yes I fit the bill but Thailand is where I wanted to live because of the infrastructure etc but at what price. Vietnam may not be on the map yet but you bet it soon will be!. The reality is that Thailand is doing it's best to undermine the real potential of foreign longterm investment and I am that person. Yes marry that Thai girl and just accept everything that they throw at you but the point is do you want to live underneath an umbrella of corruption, bribery or misunderstanding or do you want to live in an open environment that says "hey we like you", "you are good for us".! If you can say what the heck then I can respect your needs but I for one need to feel that my residence is a positive move and not a move made out of need but out of common appreciatian and desire. Apologise if I am getting moved sideways but even if I was single I would on principle be miffed at the way I have been treated. We will all carry on but at what cost, it should always be a question of choice, once you forget that you are leaving yourself open to whatever the future holds and it might not be so accomodating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chonabot Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Oh yes, Singapore is the best in this asian region, really fantastic and English speaking nation. Another alternative is called Malaysia My Second Home. Try this website:www.imi.gov.my/myshe.htm Singapore is fine if you are earning shedloads, not many Westerners retired there, or Malaysia for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chonabot Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 You say you are 48 years and have been married for 34 years .....my maths are not superb but that saw you signing up at 14 hmmmm an error or a young start ? He actually states "For info I am British, 48 years of age and married to a British woman of 34 years. " i.e She is 34 years old. Wow I'm on a pedantic roll today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmatian Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Chonabot, Thanks for making life easy, I would have hated to have started a new topic by being married at 14 years, yes my wife is 34 years of age, I have only been married for 7 months. She is British but she is is of Indian parentage and everybody in Thailand and Philippines think she is Thai or Philippina, makes life a little easier. It is getting late, 1.00 a.m Philippine time and I need a hot tea!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiChai Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I have lived in Thailand for 8 years (on and off), and I can't really understand what the Thais are trying to achieve with their visa policies. People from poorer neigbouring countries, and the Indian sub continent need to be kept out, but people from wealthier 1st world countries? Some western people do cause problems in Thailand, but the percentage must be very small. How many poor families are supported in some way by benefactors from abroad? While I don't fully approve of this as some Thais are very manipulative in getting money out of foreigners, but Thailands foreign exchange would suffer if foreigners stopped bring in foreign currency, not to mention all those poor families. What kind of threat are we? Now with the visa increases it just seems clear that the government are supporting the Thai idea that foreigners are fair game for being ripped off. Let the farangs in, let them inter marry with the locals and form local ties, and then stitch them up for whatever we can get out of them. Lets campaign for equality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markt Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 The thread "Tourist visa, 6 time limit" on page six finally concludes that the six time limit applys only to 30 day, no visa stamp on arrival. The news that you can get refused a TOURIST visa if it is your third of the year was never mentioned on any site i saw. Does anyone know the facts or heard of this situation before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger13 Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 ... my wife is ... British but she is is of Indian parentage and everybody in Thailand and Philippines think she is Thai or Philippina, makes life a little easier. Dalmation, Maybe the Thai Embassy TREATED her as Indian? Did you see a Notice in the Embassy saying that Indians, Pakistanis, Bangadeshis etc ... must apply for Thai Visas only in their Home country. Could there be any connection? There seems to be prejudice against Indians in Thailand - even their label "Kaek" means "guest" - implying they should only stay for a short time ... You asked if anyone had similar experiences could I ask you to expand on your experience? You mention supporting your Visa Application with details of Condo & Bank Account. May I ask - was this in response to the Embassy initial re-action or did you give this info - up front? If upfront - maybe it was "Over Kill" ... and prompted unsympathetic staff to look more closely at your situation? Your experience is very worrying - just trying to find some explanation ... Have you any further thoughts? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chittie Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 The thread "Tourist visa, 6 time limit" on page six finally concludes that the six time limit applys only to 30 day, no visa stamp on arrival.The news that you can get refused a TOURIST visa if it is your third of the year was never mentioned on any site i saw. Does anyone know the facts or heard of this situation before? I think this is a good point. It seems like we all concluded that as long as you are applying for a tourist visa rather than coming on the 30 day visa free stay, there is no limit to the number of times you may do this. But if the experience in the Phillipines is an indication of the new stance that will be taken by consualtes around the world, then many of us have a serious problem. I've got to think that a low key, relaxed consulate back in the UK would be happy to grant him the tourist visa or even a non-im possibly. I really think that more and more, the smile is just fake. They want your money and if you don't have a lot of it, they see no need for you. I think this can be traced directly to Thaksin who after all, is a business man. i've always said that the richest man in the country shouldn't be the political leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chonabot Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilson steer Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Three points to make regarding this matter. 1. Every now and then Immigration will knock a falang back for a request for a tourist visa, citing the 'too many visa' story. Forget it and move on. Personally I would have tried again the next day with a different official. I never assume I will get another Thai tourist visa in S.E. Asia. 2. Always get a quadruple tourist visa in the U.K. this is good for eleven months in Thailand if you time it right. Consider getting a quadruple non-immigrant visa in the U.K. as well. 3. Avoid Pattaya immigration at all costs for anything. Remember ypu can legally hold two British passports, if you explain your reasons in writing. You can also replace a passport if you wish. Good luck, don't be depressed, this is a minor setback, and visa runs to Cambodia are only 2000 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markt Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Always get a quadruple tourist visa in the U.K. this is good for eleven months in Thailand if you time it right. Are there any problems getting multiple tourist visas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kukui Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 About denial of long stay visas. Yes, this goes back to my response of last week. After doing business for years in Thailand, and spending considerable amounts contracting out business to the growing print industry of Thailand - for export, I personally feel insulted that I am not wanted now. Perhaps all of us, after a lifetime of work, are now not considered desirable or rich enough to warrant a long time stay in Thailand. Amazing! None of us have any inherent right to reside in the country. We are foreigners after all. But if not wanted, even with good pensions and money in the bank, yes, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, where ever - I may look to other places. Being a Hawaii resident for 50 years, it is simply too expensive to stay here during these advancing years. I shall keep my properties and a home here, But I also want to invest my retirement in a nation that wants my business, modest as it may be, and not made to feel I am a free loader. None of us are. We contribute a lot to the Thai economy. Kukui Honolulu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmatian Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 In response to ROGER13, thanks for question/thoughts, they do raise a few issues (1) Maybe the Thai Embassy TREATED her as Indian? Did you see a Notice in the Embassy saying that Indians, Pakistanis, Bangadeshis etc ... must apply for Thai Visas only in their Home country. Could there be any connection? (Hope this is not the case although I see your line of thought. This could raise the R word and I would hate to think that is the case as she was born UK and has never visited India but who would know that.) (2)You asked if anyone had similar experiences could I ask you to expand on your experience? You mention supporting your Visa Application with details of Condo & Bank Account. May I ask - was this in response to the Embassy initial re-action or did you give this info - up front? If upfront - maybe it was "Over Kill" ... and prompted unsympathetic staff to look more closely at your situation? (In response: when giving in our applications I was asked initially for details of how I can afford to stay in Thailand, I had to leave a copy of my Thai Farmers Bank book with them. I was then called by the embassy the next day to be told that I had too many 60 day visas (2) already and I should go in on a 30 day visit. I then advised that I was retired and intending on buying a home at some stage in the next year. I was then advised that only when I had documentation to support the purchase should I then come back and they would give me a 60 day visa. I stated that I had paid rental for 6 months already on a condo in Jomtien but to no avail. It appeared quite ok for them to think I would just carry on going in on 30 day visas. Now may be putting Tourist down on the application form was wrong (same for my wife) ... should I be putting down that I am retired? Also I am going to attempt to go to either Singapore or Penang at the end of August with a view to trying to give it another go at a 60 day visa. Can anybody tell me which one is better or if they are both reliable in obtaining the necessary visa. In response to another comment on the Philippines in terms of going back the next day and trying somebody different, there is nobody different. I arrived to find one man serving the counter, nobody else behind the glass. No counter for applications or pick-up, just one man. When I spoke again with the embassy it was the same man I spoke with and again when picking up passports. The place was empty, I was probably the only person they had seen all day, if my experience is an example then that's probably why it is empty. Just a bad experience probably but certainly don't put P.I. down as a 60 day tourist visa run destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger13 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Dalmation, See Negative Reports on this posting about Singapore although I GUESS they are OK for Tourist Visa http://forum.thaivisa.com/cgi-bin/ikonboar...t=ST;f=1;t=1524 Everybody seems VERY happy with Penang I have several Indian friends - and it seems to be that Indians are not popular in Thailand. So maybe you were just unlucky in coming up against an Official who was R or at least biased. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmatian Posted August 5, 2003 Author Share Posted August 5, 2003 Roger13, thanks for your speedy and informative replies. After viewing the forum comments on Singapore I think it will be Penang for me. If that does not work then I will do the Cambodia trip and then in December when back in the UK I will try (do I want to) to get the 4 entry tourist visa as mentioned in the earlier replies to my topic. What is noticeable though is that it does appear that there are no hard and fast rules to guide tourists through the intracies of obtaining Thai visas with confidence. If I knew that I would never get a visa in Philippines or perhaps Singapore then I wish somebody would do the decent thing and stop me wasting my time going there in the first place. If it's a lottery and to marry a Thai officials daughter is the only surefire way of getting a tourist visa then I just might forgo the ongoing headaches and stop bringing my money into an ungrateful country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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