Warning About Insurance Scam

[larvidchr]

My Girlfriend did some checking on the net trying to find me a good health insurance deal, we then was visited by a lady Mrs. Saranya Lakkhason from Siam Commercial new York life insurance, with her she brought a man Mr. Nat Phondee from Thai health insurance co.ltd. after some negotiating an agreement about a new visit was made for the actual application and payment of the premium.

A few days later Mr. Nat Phondee came back and the application form was taken care of and the premium 26.758 baht was paid, a company receipt was given in exchange.

After some weeks of waiting with frequent calls the phone of Mr. Nat Phondee and the phone of Mrs. Saranya Lakkhason was no longer open, checking with Siam Commercial New York life insurance we was informed that Mrs. Saranya had been terminated in her employment with the company, and checking with Thai health insurance co.ltd. they claimed that Mr. Nat Phondee was not employed in their company.

Thai health Insurance co.ltd send two employees to my home, they apologized for the trouble we had, and the man speaking English offered me in no uncertain terms an insurance on goodwill since their company felt very bad about somebody using their company and their company papers to scam people, i was very satisfied with this attitude and their promise to follow up the case with the police(otherwise I would go to the police), i then filled out a new application and was assured that i had cover already from this day, i was explained about some tax measures they would do to be able to claim a tax refund on the premium, and in the end I was given a blue company polo shirt.

As it happens a week went by and after contacting Thai health insurance again was told that the recommendation to insure me by the representatives visiting me was overturned by somebody higher up, i explained that i had been given a promise in no uncertain terms, but their reply was that that must have been a misunderstanding, now the man that was here spoke almost perfect English and there is no way i could have misunderstood, there is also no way i would have accepted a polo shirt without the company's promise to give me a new insurance.

The actual status of Mr. Nat Phondee at the time he was in my house is uncertain, I don't know for sure whether he actually is a former employee of Thai health insurance or was employed at the time of the scam, i don't feel completely convinced by the explanation from Thai health insurance on this matter, i simply don't know for sure.

All I know is that i now own a polo shirt from Thai health insurance worth 26.758 baht this polo shirt will be handed over to the police tomorrow along with the paper evidence.

In the meantime dear Thai visa members i advise thorough ID checks and caution dealing with representatives from above mentioned company's.

Regards,

larvidchr.

Edited May 28, 2008 by larvidchr

[chickenslegs]

It may be that this pair were still working for the company when they took you money, then were dismissed after 'doing a runner', which seems likely, as they still had access to the on-line customers and still had their ID's and all the paperwork - in which case the company are surely liable.

Even if they were dismissed before they took your money, the company may be liable, as they did not take reasonable steps to prevent this - by removing their on-line access, ID cards and papers.

26,000+ is a lot lose without a fight. Maybe you should ask the company to tell you exactly when their employment was terminated and how they got your details. A lawyer's letter might help.

[thaigene2]

It may be that this pair were still working for the company when they took you money, then were dismissed after 'doing a runner', which seems likely, as they still had access to the on-line customers and still had their ID's and all the paperwork - in which case the company are surely liable.

Even if they were dismissed before they took your money, the company may be liable, as they did not take reasonable steps to prevent this - by removing their on-line access, ID cards and papers.

26,000+ is a lot lose without a fight. Maybe you should ask the company to tell you exactly when their employment was terminated and how they got your details. A lawyer's letter might help.

I think an angry farang in their front office is always better than going through a lawyer (that should be your last resort). It's easier for them to put you right and end the in-person confrontation (let's face it no one likes that - Thai or otherwise). Gets rid of you too. If they keep refusing you in person, then call the tourist police (from their office and refuse to leave) and tell them a crime has been committed and you are at the premises of the accused right now and they need to come now as the accused are now threatening you (with removal, fair enough, things are turning ugly and the police are now needed) - they stole 26,000 baht from you don't forget. And don't be fobbed off with some police claim that it's a civil matter - no it's not it's fraud - a criminal matter. Tourist Police: 1155 (Eng spoken) regular brown shirts 191 (no english)

Edited May 28, 2008 by thaigene2

[barky]

I think its time for good reliable legal advice. Then start court proceedings. Whoever is liable show them no mercy until you get your dosh back.

[Peterpan]

My Girlfriend did some checking on the net trying to find me a good health insurance deal, we then was visited by a lady Mrs. Saranya Lakkhason from Siam Commercial new York life insurance, with her she brought a man Mr. Nat Phondee from Thai health insurance co.ltd. after some negotiating an agreement about a new visit was made for the actual application and payment of the premium.

A few days later Mr. Nat Phondee came back and the application form was taken care of and the premium 26.758 baht was paid, a company receipt was given in exchange.

After some weeks of waiting with frequent calls the phone of Mr. Nat Phondee and the phone of Mrs. Saranya Lakkhason was no longer open, checking with Siam Commercial New York life insurance we was informed that Mrs. Saranya had been terminated in her employment with the company, and checking with Thai health insurance co.ltd. they claimed that Mr. Nat Phondee was not employed in their company.

Thai health Insurance co.ltd send two employees to my home, they apologized for the trouble we had, and the man speaking English offered me in no uncertain terms an insurance on goodwill since their company felt very bad about somebody using their company and their company papers to scam people, i was very satisfied with this attitude and their promise to follow up the case with the police(otherwise I would go to the police), i then filled out a new application and was assured that i had cover already from this day, i was explained about some tax measures they would do to be able to claim a tax refund on the premium, and in the end I was given a blue company polo shirt.

As it happens a week went by and after contacting Thai health insurance again was told that the recommendation to insure me by the representatives visiting me was overturned by somebody higher up, i explained that i had been given a promise in no uncertain terms, but their reply was that that must have been a misunderstanding, now the man that was here spoke almost perfect English and there is no way i could have misunderstood, there is also no way i would have accepted a polo shirt without the company's promise to give me a new insurance.

The actual status of Mr. Nat Phondee at the time he was in my house is uncertain, I don't know for sure whether he actually is a former employee of Thai health insurance or was employed at the time of the scam, i don't feel completely convinced by the explanation from Thai health insurance on this matter, i simply don't know for sure.

All I know is that i now own a polo shirt from Thai health insurance worth 26.758 baht this polo shirt will be handed over to the police tomorrow along with the paper evidence.

In the meantime dear Thai visa members i advise thorough ID checks and caution dealing with representatives from above mentioned company's.

Regards,

larvidchr.

Get the police involved, you have her name and the company have all details of her. Dont waste any time start proceeding.

[ThaivisaInsurance]

We hope you do not mind but as you have posted this on Thai Visa we have looked into this on your behalf through our contacts in the insurance industry.

I am sorry to say but you have been conned. Both Mr. Nat Phondee and Mrs. Saranya Lakkhason worked (past tense) for Siam Commercial New York life and never at any time worked for Thai Health. What they have done with the money collected from you is now (presumably) down to the Police and Siam Commercial New York life to sort out for you.

The representatives from Thai Health who visited you were not able to makes decisions on giving away insurance as they were only there to investigate. Unfortunately, and it's a Thai trait we all know, said there was a good chance Thai Health would foot the bill - and for that Thai Health apologizes. Obviously Thai Health bears no responsibility for your money being stolen and they will help the Police in their inquiries.

May we again respectfully recommend you visit a Broker local to you – who has been recommended by friends – or deal through your own Broker here at Thai Visa Insurance?

Note : ID checks are not always enough as, in this case, they may well have kept their old Siam Commercial New York life ID's.

[steveromagnino]

The representatives from Thai Health who visited you were not able to makes decisions on giving away insurance as they were only there to investigate. Unfortunately, and it's a Thai trait we all know, said there was a good chance Thai Health would foot the bill - and for that Thai Health apologizes. Obviously Thai Health bears no responsibility for your money being stolen and they will help the Police in their inquiries.

Do you always spout racist S&*T about what Thai people are and are not like, or is this an isolated example?

To the OP, if you don't get any joy from dealing with the insurance company directly, let me know via PM, I may be able to suggest some alternative strategies involving the use of media to raise the issue; the threat of which is probably enough to get your money back or at least some compensation.

[burman]

Yes, well said.

Quite surprising for a Thaivisa business to come out with this "Thai trait' racist nonsense.

[taxin]

My advice ! NEVER NEVER NEVER use a broker in Thailand for insurance !

I was scammed in the same manner for car insurance. Paid over 14,000 baht to a broker, all seemed above board and even had evidence that they were an authorised broker to sell the policies. The insurance company was AXA.

After what seemed a long time waiting to get our policy through we then found out that the lady had done a runner with the money. Went to the police to report it and the police replied "Oh yeah, we know her, have 3 other people have same problem. She run away ! "

The insurance brokers office was still open with the ladies father sat at the desk, when asked for our money back we got a reply "Sorry cant help you, I dont know where my daughter is". 4 people were scammed and the police allowed the office to stay open and continue advertising trying to sell insurance ! (I do believe its now closed). The police did absolutely NOTHING !

Went to the AXA office. Reply: "Yes, this was an authorised broker of ours, but sorry, cant help". They did not want to know and simply refused to accept any responsibility !

Following my experience I found out that just about anyone can be an insurance broker, there is no licensing requirements, no experience required, references.. NOTHING !

Again, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER give money to a broker for insurance, insurance brokers are not regulated and do not come under any strict guidelines. If you give money to a broker you have ZERO protection. The police will not help you !

All the major insurance companies will have an office in your area, it may not be on your doorstep but it wont be to far away. Dont be lazy, go to the office and do it yourself !

My apologies to any brokers reading this but this is a true, factual experience. If my experience can prevent at least one more person from being scammed then my post has been worth it !

[larvidchr]

We hope you do not mind but as you have posted this on Thai Visa we have looked into this on your behalf through our contacts in the insurance industry.

I am sorry to say but you have been conned. Both Mr. Nat Phondee and Mrs. Saranya Lakkhason worked (past tense) for Siam Commercial New York life and never at any time worked for Thai Health. What they have done with the money collected from you is now (presumably) down to the Police and Siam Commercial New York life to sort out for you.

The representatives from Thai Health who visited you were not able to makes decisions on giving away insurance as they were only there to investigate. Unfortunately, and it's a Thai trait we all know, said there was a good chance Thai Health would foot the bill - and for that Thai Health apologizes. Obviously Thai Health bears no responsibility for your money being stolen and they will help the Police in their inquiries.

May we again respectfully recommend you visit a Broker local to you – who has been recommended by friends – or deal through your own Broker here at Thai Visa Insurance?

Note : ID checks are not always enough as, in this case, they may well have kept their old Siam Commercial New York life ID's.

Thank you very much for your efforts looking in to this matter, i do however still have some doubts as regarding the total washing of hands from Thai Health, I was presented with original application forms and receipt from Thai Health, when confronted with this the man from Thai Health informing me of the decision not to offer me insurance anyway, stated that anyone could walk in anywhere and get hold of these papers, we did a bit of research on our own and tried to contact Thai Health and ask for these forms, we where by office staff informed that that was impossible and only people employed by or with access to the Thai Health main office would be able to obtain application forms and especially original company receipts.

I think it would be very nice if Thai Health and Siam commercial New York life was on their own accord talking together, taking some measure of responsibility for the actions of former employees and people using their good company names to front scams, and effectuating a joint effort involving the police without me having to apply pressure to the company's first.

Your rather curious remarks about " The Thai trait of giving promises they cant keep" really only reinforces my continued advise to be very vigilant in any dealings with the two company's, who would want to buy insurance from anybody who as a rule gives promises they cant/wont keep ?? I sincerly hope you are wrong and that not all Thais can be brushed with that feather.

I was initially very impressed and very pleased with Thai Health after their visit, and if they had kept their promise they would have had me as a very happy costumer for many years to come gaining any initial loss back several times, not to mention this thread who would have been entirely different, but this is the point where i think that maybe the calculator ran out of battery in the Thai Health main office.

Best regards,

larvidchr

[larvidchr]

Thank you all for your replies, I will be back when I can tell you what the police have to say tomorrow.

[larvidchr]

Today my Girlfriend and I went to Banglamung Police to file a report, after a bit of confusion trying to explain the case everything then went quite efficient and professional, the Police had in no time two ID. photos from the national ID. card database and we could confirm that it was the right people, they are not to smart scamming using their real identity's but very good for us and the Police .

The whole writing down of the case aso. took several hours, but the Police then explained the forward course of action they would take, they would contact the insurance company's and request employment status of the two swindlers trying to establish by who and when they had been employed, this to sort out liability if any on the insurance company's side, and they would off course try to apprehend the two crooks for questioning.

As it turns out they are girl and boy friends living together, the fellow Nat Phondee already has a profile on the net having been scamming others in some shady car deals before.

Now all we can do is wait and see if the Police have any luck in their efforts, and how much effort they actually are going to apply to this case.

While we where sitting in the Police station an English couple in some distress came in, they where on their first trip to Thailand and had been here 8 days, the wife had her gold necklace ripped of her neck while she was sitting behind her husband on a rented motorbike, they where attacked by 3 motorbikes, one where the pillion stole the necklace and 2 that blocked his way when the husband tried to follow the robber, this was on soi kaonoy in full daylight, it was good luck that they where not injured serious apart from marks on the Lady's neck. I feel sorry for the couple and hope it wont ruin the rest of their stay here in Thailand.

I hope you all will have a good happy and safe weekend

Best regards,

larvidchr

[Ski_Goong]

I am a customer of Thai Health and can truly say that I've had nothing but professional, friendly and fast service from them. Whether it was for claims or answering my questions, my Thai Health agent was very good.

I've heard that many people has been ripped off by rogue agents and was advised to buy directly from the company. Luckily I had a friend who is an agent so I brought the policy through her.

Ski...and Goong

[taxexile]

sorry to hear of your being scammed , my advice for what its worth when buying car or health insurance , always pay by bank transfer direct to the company , the bank will check that the account is the correct one , or by cashiers cheque directly to the office.

hope you get your money back , and i am surprised that the company didnt follow on with the promise of goodwill.

i would try and follow that up with someone higher up than the person who refused it , and mention the adverse publicity you will spread via the web.

if the scammers were at one time employed by that company and using company policies and documents then that company should offer goodwill to you , as well as help you by providing details and information to the police.

its very poor form by them to just wash their hands of the whole thing.

[larvidchr]

Thanks again for the good advise I am getting.

Today I was contacted by Siam Commercial New York life and was asked to remove this thread from Thai Visa, they would then promise to help me recover as much money as possible taking into account that there could be other creditors so how much would be uncertain.

This would not be right and I most certainly wont, but Siam Commercial can be sure that I will tell what happens and how it happens, I will for sure write about who helps in this matter this is only fair and just, I would first off all like to see the two swindlers stopped so they cant steal from more people, and then i would like to have the insurance I paid for.

But status so far is that I have lost 26.758 baht + one blue Thai health polo shirt which i have handed over to the Police, I hope they make good use of it, its an expensive polo shirt

Regards,

larvidchr

[t.s]

my question is simple:

why didnt you write a cheque?

any payment i make to a company is direct transfer or cheque. it really is that easy.

always scratch out or bearer.

[popshirt]

Good for you, larvidchr. Don't give up.

I had a similar but much less expensive experience a few years ago when sold an accident policy by the "friend of a friend" .... turned out six or seven of us who bought the policies were flatly "turned down" no explanation given. It took months to get the initial premiums back and I found out later that the friend of mine who introduced me to his broker friend paid us back from his own pocket (in cash). Surely a scam. It taught me a lesson.

[larvidchr]

my question is simple:

why didn't you write a cheque?

any payment i make to a company is direct transfer or cheque. it really is that easy.

always scratch out or bearer.

You are right, I should have, I just didn't think about it, and it was really my girlfriend that did most of the dealing with the two swindlers, she is also the most injured part since she feels she has let me down and she has lost face, she has been very very upset about this matter and that angers me much more than loosing the money , I have tried to tell her not to worry about it, but she will not let this matter go and have been writing e-mails and phoning trying to resolve this.

But again you are right, and a lesson is learned, it is true we never get to old to learn

regards

[guava]

Very easy to survive in the modern era, even with a business, even in Thailand, without a cheque account.

Many people aged under 40 would never have written a cheque in their entire life. I would imagine a seasoned scammer would know how to talk their way out of accepting a cheque fairly easily. Even if they did, after it clears, they still have your money.....

[t.s]

Very easy to survive in the modern era, even with a business, even in Thailand, without a cheque account.

Many people aged under 40 would never have written a cheque in their entire life. I would imagine a seasoned scammer would know how to talk their way out of accepting a cheque fairly easily. Even if they did, after it clears, they still have your money.....

i am 41, but i also said direct deposit. my point being you pay a company, not an individual.

i feel for the op, and hearing the whole story, i see how it happened, but she learned a lesson when paying for an expensive service there has to be a record.

if the folks who did you were actually afilliated with the company, i am surprised the company didnt make good. stealing under such circumstances is also ludicrously poorly thought out to say the least.

guava, how would a seasoned scammer clear a cheque (or transfer) written to company xyz, without having invested the time and money and documentation necessary to actually create said company?

if it really is that easy, i have a few new business ideas to consider