Thai pm verses farangs

[Butterfly]

I am a Sri Lankan national Buddhist but studied in a British School managed by the Anglican Church and with qualifications/certifications from UK Professional Bodies coming under the Royal Charter. I have worked over 10 yrs for European and US Companies. This question came several times coz my views in certain issues were different from most of you guys in this forum. For me, I see a very similar thinking pattern behind many Topics and also the replies from you guys. Isn’t this we want in a forum?

I have spelled this out clearly in my signature. Please do not ask this question again to judge an opinion different from yours. Lets talk one by one about the points we disagree.

I think Quote Feature in this forum will help for this.

I said, I am not disagreeing with your View. I said I perfectly Understand what you think and also said that I, myself work like the way you have put down your points in practice.

I have putdown what many Asian's think.

I was not judging your nationality or your ethnic origin, I was only asking where in Asia were you from ? Like Europe, Asia is not a BIG nation where all asians are the same. You sig was unclear. Japanese, Thais and Vietnamese have different ways of thinking. There are similarities but still clear differences exist between those different people. I was not after you to offend you. I apologize if you felt that way.

[Butterfly]

Hmmmm..Interesting..

I do not agree.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

WHY THIS IMF IS MAINLY FOCUSING ON DEVELOPING COUNTRIES? DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE HELPED TO RESTRUCTURE THE VERY POOR ECONOMIES IN AFRICA? COUNTRIES LIKE ETIYOPIYA [sorry wrong spelling], SOMALIA.

WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THIS SELECTION?

Isn’t it the Resources availability in the Country? If your answer is yes, then is that means the IMF regulations are more towards controlling the Resources available in the Respective Country?

Because, I can not think of any other factor that will motivate IMF to grant and help the People in countries like Thailand and other Asian Countries.

Ok, I think you are confusing 2 things here: the IMF and the Development Bank

IMF is a rescue fund to help ANY country in a financial turmoil. It's not limited to third world countries. Even countries like France has used it in the past.

The Development Bank is supposed to help developing countries and a number of projects are already being run. However with the limitation of funds, it is too difficult to "develop" all projects at once.

Also, you have to understand, the IMF only intervene at the request of the host country (in this case Thailand). Nobody forced Thailand to take the loan of the IMF. Thailand agreed to the IMF help after the IMF offered their service. They wouldn't have done it, you will not have any currency now.

Why would the IMF helps with the loans ? to avoid the spread of the fall. Nobody wants to see Asia (or Thailand for that matter) falls, as it would have an impact for everybody. It's a small planet you know, we are all on the same island. When you guys fart, we can smell it here.

Hmmm..you now agree how successful the Thai Government and People are. If they are not successful in paying back the IMF Loan, you can not even Imagine the situataion. Isn't it?

You also saying in your words "situation in Thailand before 1997 was not "normal". The system was rotten and was falling into itself".

Again, I agree. So isn't this why they are taking measures again not to face with that type of a situation.

Tell me if they are adopting any "rotten and falling into itself policy" now. All I can see is, now they are puttnig up more controls in the areas they failed to take control of.

One area is the Foreign Exchange Reserves and Regulations.

I only agree that the Thai government has been successful into paying back its debt because of its commitment to the International Financial community by doing the proper reforms. This alone has put a rest on the slide of the crisis and has boosted investor confidence into the country. Without such confidence, worthless Thai assets wouldn't have been bought by the "stupid" farang corps, and Thailand would have been in a bigger financial hole. Again, the IMF is not the ennemy.

Today, there is a clear indication, that the Thai government is putting back some of his "old" financial policies into place. This is not good news because the same "old" problems will jump again after a few years.

[Butterfly]

Yes, we Asians are very proud of our Nations. [it is not only Asians, I think all countries are same]I think Thai people should be very proud for not getting into the hands of any European Country like other Asian Countries and to come up to this level.

and rightly so. Asia has a lot to show to the world, and has historical importance for our civilization. Nobody is questionning this although it is often forgotten how many nice things those different Asian cultures have brought to our civilization.

Also Thai People should be proud and should read this forum to see how these People from Developed countries trying to find ways to live in Thailand. How much they care for Thai Culture? How much they invest to form 2 Million Bht Companies to live in Thailand?

Although I don't support "cheap" farangs trying to stay here for living cheap, I don't see what's wrong with someone who wish to visit and stay in another culture ? you statement is definitely "racism" in my book. Sure, a lot of people abuse the system, but the alternative is far worst. Nothing is perfect. However, I think it's hard for anyone living in Thailand not to be interested sooner or later by the culture, even for the "cheap" farangs. On the other hands, rich farangs have other things to worry than "staying" long time in Thailand and learn about the Thai culture (with a few exceptions of course)

[Heng]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a nation's government (first world countries included) condoned and regulated narcotics trafficking.   And our customers wouldn't be our own people.  They would be the customers (who DEMAND these products) of first world countries.

Butterfly wrote:

actually yes, could be a good strategy. But corruption would be everywhere and we could have that MP Emperor as the PM instead of Toxin. Not a bad alternative actually.

[Heng]

Regarding Asians as a group, I've found that many Thais do not regard them (particularly Eastern Asians) as foreigners at all.   Hence the huge numbers of Taiwanese, Singaporeans, etc. that settle down in Thailand and are helped by locals to obtain permanent residency AND citizenship.  

:cool:

[kwiz117]

Hmmmm..Interesting..

I do not agree.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

WHY THIS IMF IS MAINLY FOCUSING ON DEVELOPING COUNTRIES? DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE HELPED TO RESTRUCTURE THE VERY POOR ECONOMIES IN AFRICA? COUNTRIES LIKE ETIYOPIYA [sorry wrong spelling], SOMALIA.

WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THIS SELECTION?

Isn’t it the Resources availability in the Country? If your answer is yes, then is that means the IMF regulations are more towards controlling the Resources available in the Respective Country?

Because, I can not think of any other factor that will motivate IMF to grant and help the People in countries like Thailand and other Asian Countries.

Ok, I think you are confusing 2 things here: the IMF and the Development Bank

IMF is a rescue fund to help ANY country in a financial turmoil. It's not limited to third world countries. Even countries like France has used it in the past.

The Development Bank is supposed to help developing countries and a number of projects are already being run. However with the limitation of funds, it is too difficult to "develop" all projects at once.

Also, you have to understand, the IMF only intervene at the request of the host country (in this case Thailand). Nobody forced Thailand to take the loan of the IMF. Thailand agreed to the IMF help after the IMF offered their service. They wouldn't have done it, you will not have any currency now.

Why would the IMF helps with the loans ? to avoid the spread of the fall. Nobody wants to see Asia (or Thailand for that matter) falls, as it would have an impact for everybody. It's a small planet you know, we are all on the same island. When you guys fart, we can smell it here.

No..I am not confused with the Role of IMF and the World bank.

Let me rephrase my question.

Do you think if requested, IMF will HELPED TO RESTRUCTURE THE VERY POOR ECONOMIES IN AFRICA? COUNTRIES LIKE ETIYOPIYA [sorry wrong spelling], SOMALIA.

WHAT IS THE BASIS OF THIS SELECTION?

Isn’t it the Resources availability in the Country? If your answer is yes, then is that means the IMF regulations are more towards controlling the Resources available in the Respective Country?

Because, I can not think of any other factor that will motivate IMF to grant and help the People in countries like Thailand and other Asian Countries.

[kwiz117]

Why would the IMF helps with the loans ? to avoid the spread of the fall. Nobody wants to see Asia (or Thailand for that matter) falls, as it would have an impact for everybody. It's a small planet you know, we are all on the same island. When you guys fart, we can smell it here.

This is exactly what I have written before. I said that "Thai people do not care about whether IMF will help them again or not as they know they are not alone and not get evaporated alone”. Remember?

You said that I am Childish to say above. Now you say the same in your words. Wonder who is C******h?

[kwiz117]

Regarding Asians as a group, I've found that many Thais do not regard them (particularly Eastern Asians) as foreigners at all.   Hence the huge numbers of Taiwanese, Singaporeans, etc. that settle down in Thailand and are helped by locals to obtain permanent residency AND citizenship.  

:cool:

Yes..this is true. Asian's in general can not group Together. As you say, East Asian’s and SouthEast Asians have many things in common among the respective regions. But this again will have a mix reflection when it comes to the way of thinking influenced by Religion. For example, Thai’s and Malaysian’s may have many similarities. But when it comes to religious views, they are in two different ends.

On the other hand, the country I come from Sri Lanka [south Asia] and Thailand [south East Asia] have many similarities in our Believes. Reason is both countries are having a very strong Buddhist Background comes from “Therawada” Buddhism.

A good example is, my thai wife and myself have very common views towards many things hapenning around us. When it comes to our families, we have many common values to share with. Mainly originated from Buddhism.

If we consider China and Thailand they have lot of similarities in the way of Living. That is because lot of Thai Chinese living in Thailand.

If we consider Thailand and Japan, not much similarities. Asia in general is not like Countries in Middle East, Europe or in the African Region.

But when it comes to some Issues like IMF, most of the People live in Asia have very similar views. This is same for WTO. WTO is getting more criticized in Asia compared to IMF these days.  

Actually I do not have any Thai or Sri Lankan Friend who have any faith in WTO or IMF in general.  :cool:

[en184]

When countries use the world bank, it is similar to you taking out a mortgage on your house.

When you take out a 25 year mortgage, you take out a covenent with society to work for 25 years to repay the loan.  If you chose to repay interest only, or you keep on borrowing more, the interest part will stay the same or rise.  

If countries decide to have wars, and destroy thier houses, which have a mortgage attached, and take out a credit card loan to pay for tanks and luxury goods, which are later worthless, offcourse the country will go bankrupt.

[kwiz117]

When countries use the world bank, it is similar to you taking out a mortgage on your house.

When you take out a 25 year mortgage, you take out a covenent with society to work for 25 years to repay the loan.  If you chose to repay interest only, or you keep on borrowing more, the interest part will stay the same or rise.  

If countries decide to have wars, and destroy thier houses, which have a mortgage attached, and take out a credit card loan to pay for tanks and luxury goods, which are later worthless, offcourse the country will go bankrupt.

en184,

I agree with what you have said.

You have put down your thoughts in a very simple way and the two examples, Mortgage Loan and the Credit Card Facility is the best practical examples to describe the World Bank and the IMF. I wasted pages of writing to explain this.

My poor country Sri Lanka, we have taken both Loans and Credit Cards. For Thailand, they now have Loans and no Credit Cards.  

As you very correctly say, we spent all Loans in an Internal War where the Banker has nothing to do with it. Then we got stuck with the Credit Card. [but the Credit Card Provider, took the situation to its favor and put all "ShyLock" Style Clauses to it. That made things upside down.

Similarly in Thailand, they took Loans and then economic Crisis evaporated everything. Then the Credit Card provider did the same thing. Put all ‘ShyLock” style clauses and granted them a Credit Card taking the situation into granted.

Thai people worked hard smartly and get rid of the unfavourable Credit Card Provider. Now they are cursing the provider and all the allies of the provider.

This is just two countries. Some Countries like Pakistan, they did the same. Then came the Inter Cultural extravaganza and  ended up in the same Boat. They are still trapped like my Country.

Interestingly, this IMF Credit Card Issuer is not working alone. It also provide ‘Substitute Cards” under various names. WTO is a similar Substitute. Under this umbrella of MoneyLenders, many “Unseen Hands” operate to make up situations to create Business Opportunities to them.

Otherwise, these Credit Card Companies will not have any Business.

So, it is unpopular among Asian’s.

[en184]

This thread is really getting of the point.  

The thai PM will not change the rules on condo ownership, and even if he does, I don't suppose existing owners would be affected.

So, no problems.  Buy you condo now, to avoid problems.

[kwiz117]

Yes, it is getting off the point.

I am the starter..

When read this IMF stuff, I got carried away..

sorry all..  

Lets talk about condo..

Yes, I do not think no changes will happen to Condo law. But even if it happens, I doubt it will effect to the Period Before the effective date of the ammended law.

:cool:

[mrvietnam2001]

If what you are saying is true, then we'll all together have to pack up and go to Vietnam

Oh please. Most expats in Thailand would be eaten alive in Vnam

[mrvietnam2001]

A long time ago there was a place where college students, dope dealers, dropouts, beaver hunters, heavy drinkers, players and wheeler dealers would go in South Florida. It's called Ft Lauderdale and it's where I spend over half my life.

After hurricane Andrew wiped out the beach, over a billion dollars were spent rebuilding and the locals as well as business people decided we were really sick and tired of half crazed no money loonies coming to our fair city and certainly we weren't about to continue with these people after having to ante up over a Bil for the beach.

So all kinds of way out laws were enacted including an "open container" law which meant that if you were seen east of federal highway in Lauderdale with an open can of beer, or a mixed drink, you would be arrested. We even had horse cops walk theu traffic so as to look into the cars to see if anyone was drinking.

There were all kinds of complaints from the entire country.

But soon all the classes on the lower socio-economic scale were gone and now, even a tiny 2 bedroom 2 bath condo will cost you a couple hundred grand. Money moved in and it's now a very fashionable high end city with houses near the beach selling for upwards of 20-30 million dollars.

Does anybody care about the loss of the guys and gals who can't afford it? Not hardly.

And that's the way it is. Get it?

Mr Vietnam  

[Butterfly]

If what you are saying is true, then we'll all together have to pack up and go to Vietnam

Oh please. Most expats in Thailand would be eaten alive in Vnam

oh yeah we all know you have to be a tough guy to survive in Vietnam. That's why the Americans got kicked out in 1973    and they will be kicked out again in a few years when the Viets will be tired of their marketing BS. It's OK Mr V, Thailand will still be there to welcome you

[mrvietnam2001]

Butterfly as par for the course, nothing substantive from you.

Whine whine whine, over a few hundred bucks a month too. That's so funny.

Mr Vietnam  

[Butterfly]

Butterfly as par for the course, nothing substantive from you.

Whine whine whine, over a few hundred bucks a month too. That's so funny.

Mr Vietnam  

It's difficult to reply to your post with anything of substance ?  

So how is life in Vietnam ? must be pretty boring... don't they have expats forums over there ?  :laugh:

[mrvietnam2001]

So how is life in Vietnam ? must be pretty boring..

If you're ever productive enough to afford a ticket, then perhaps you can find out.

Mr Vietnam  

[Butterfly]

So how is life in Vietnam ? must be pretty boring..

If you're ever productive enough to afford a ticket, then perhaps you can find out.

Mr Vietnam  

So what's the obsession with being productive ? I see you keep mentioning this in every posts. Please share your problems with us, we are here to listen  

[plachon]

So how is life in Vietnam ? must be pretty boring..

If you're ever productive enough to afford a ticket, then perhaps you can find out.

Mr Vietnam  

So what's the obsession with being productive ? I see you keep mentioning this in every posts. Please share your problems with us, we are here to listen  

C'mon 'fly, you know he just can't stand the idea of others enjoying  some of life's wee pleasures without slaving our butts off 12 hours a day. And you know his only measure of man, is how much they earn a month, which if he ever lets slip in Vietnam, will mean he despises about 99 % of the populace and that would go down like a lead balloon, so he has to keep his vindictive biases strictly on this forum, where such petit bourgeiosie can be accommodated and humoured, as we know how lonely souls they are.

[Butterfly]

So how is life in Vietnam ? must be pretty boring..

If you're ever productive enough to afford a ticket, then perhaps you can find out.

Mr Vietnam  

So what's the obsession with being productive ? I see you keep mentioning this in every posts. Please share your problems with us, we are here to listen  

C'mon 'fly, you know he just can't stand the idea of others enjoying  some of life's wee pleasures without slaving our butts off 12 hours a day. And you know his only measure of man, is how much they earn a month, which if he ever lets slip in Vietnam, will mean he despises about 99 % of the populace and that would go down like a lead balloon, so he has to keep his vindictive biases strictly on this forum, where such petty bourgeiosie can be accommodated and humoured, as we know how lonely souls they are.

yeah, it must have been those painfull teenage years...

[plachon]

Tell us about your childhood Mr Vietnam.............and we'll tell you why it all went all horribly wrong.

You're not a vet are you? I only ask, cos I met a Vietnam Vet in Danang (or was it Hue?) in 1994, just around the time the US embargo was being lifted. He was trying to set up a business there too. But way too much angst and unexorcised ghosts to get anywhere. Quite a sad character really. His main love in life seemed to be slagging off the Vietnammese for not measuring up to his high expectations, which got very boring and I eventually left him ranting into his beer at around midnight, referring to the long suffering waiter as "a lizard". Hope it wasn't you.

[mrvietnam2001]

plachon, you are now on my ignore list after this.

I'm really way too busy to reply to infantile posts.

Perhaps you and butterfly can take solice in each others views of the world and try to figure out how you can continue to cheat the system and stay in Thailand although it certainly does appear that Mr Thaksin is taking lessons from Florida in which case I guess there's Laos for you for a while after a few months and you are finally ejected.

It really is quite funny.

la-gon

Mr Vietnam  

[Pepe']

Hi everyone.  This is my first post here.  I am currently planning semi retirement in Thailand within the year.  I currently practice medicine in San Diego, California.

I am 51 and have been married to a nice girl, originally from Samutsakorn for four years now.

I don't want to get off on the wrong foot here so please don't take offense at what is just an observation/speculation about this seemingly unfriendly attitude towards farangs.

I have been traveling in Asia since I've been 18.  I do think I've seen it all.

I think the core of the problem really is education, or the lack of in this case.  Remember that a large majority of Thais are only a couple of generations removed from being rice farmers.

So many are so poor that I think there is a perception that if "we" are around they will have even less.

Good education is provided mainly for the (relatively)

wealthy.  The rest are exploited by a quite corrupt system.

Initially I found my wife to be extremely nationalistic to a fault

despite her masters degree in marketing.  After traveling through Europe, Canada and the US she has changed her tune considerably.

My belief is that the government and upper class in Thailand prefers to keep the masses ignorant and uninformed to make "shearing" them simpler and more complete.

I got to meet Taksin at an affair at the Thai consulate in LA not to long ago while he was meeting with his as he said good friend George Bush.

He is very charismatic but does talk out of both sides of his mouth.

What will happen exactly is hard to say.  What is for sure is that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer, just like here in the USA...

[Pepe']

Hi everyone.  This is my first post here.  I am currently planning semi retirement in Thailand within the year.  I currently practice medicine in San Diego, California.

I am 51 and have been married to a nice girl, originally from Samutsakorn for four years now.

I don't want to get off on the wrong foot here so please don't take offense at what is just an observation/speculation about this seemingly unfriendly attitude towards farangs.

I have been traveling in Asia since I've been 18.  I do think I've seen it all.

I think the core of the problem really is education, or the lack of in this case.  Remember that a large majority of Thais are only a couple of generations removed from being rice farmers.

So many are so poor that I think there is a perception that if "we" are around they will have even less.

Good education is provided mainly for the (relatively)

wealthy.  The rest are exploited by a quite corrupt system.

Initially I found my wife to be extremely nationalistic to a fault

despite her masters degree in marketing.  After traveling through Europe, Canada and the US she has changed her tune considerably.

My belief is that the government and upper class in Thailand prefers to keep the masses ignorant and uninformed to make "shearing" them simpler and more complete.

I got to meet Taksin at an affair at the Thai consulate in LA not to long ago while he was meeting with his as he said good friend George Bush.

He is very charismatic but does talk out of both sides of his mouth.

What will happen exactly is hard to say.  What is for sure is that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer, just like here in the USA...

[plachon]

plachon, you are now on my ignore list after this.

I'm really way too busy to reply to infantile posts.

Perhaps you and butterfly can take solice in each others views of the world and try to figure out how you can continue to cheat the system and stay in Thailand although it certainly does appear that Mr Thaksin is taking lessons from Florida in which case I guess there's Laos for you for a while after a few months and you are finally ejected.

It really is quite funny.

la-gon

Mr Vietnam  

"Funny", I haven't laughed this much since Mae Yai caught her left tit in the mangle. "Ignore list", do us a favour mate, you're not serious are you? If that ain't "infantile", I'm an insurance salesman from Carshalton. You surpass, even the antics of Mrentoul on this one, 'Nam.

I'll go and draw solace and have some belly laughs with Butterfly up in Lao PDR, while you can go take "solice" (whatever that is?) with GWB et al., and mumble in your free APEC cocktails about the low quality, unproductive farang around these days. It's so nice to know that Thaksin not only takes lessons from DaveYo, but Florida to these days. What enlightenment one can get from this Forum!

PS Is that job offer you once made me still open by the way? :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :cool:

[Heng]

I think the core of the problem really is education, or the lack of in this case.  Remember that a large majority of Thais are only a couple of generations removed from being rice farmers.

Good education is provided mainly for the (relatively)

wealthy.  The rest are exploited by a quite corrupt system.

My belief is that the government and upper class in Thailand prefers to keep the masses ignorant and uninformed to make "shearing" them simpler and more complete.

What will happen exactly is hard to say.  What is for sure is that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer, just like here in the USA...

A fair opinion EXCEPT that all the haves and have nots of today, are decended from have nots.   That is, from royalty to business tycoons, middle class to elites, they all had to work their way up through the system (EVEN SUBSTANDARD educational systems) throughout history.   The Kennedy, Shinawatra, Mellon, Li, Mitsubishi, etc. clans all at one time or another did manual labor just like everyone else.   You'll find huge swaths of the wealthy who are actually drop outs and underachievers (in terms of academics) of the standard educational system.    

The issue, IMO, is a lack of work ethic, which is a problem of personal and family values.   That is not something the government OR the middle and upper classes are in a position to efficiently affect upon the lower classes.

[mrvietnam2001]

Heng,

Great post and a historical fact!

Regards

Mr Vietnam  

[G W Bush Jnr]

while you can go take "solice" (whatever that is?) with GWB et al,

I dont want to 'take solace' with him. Im quit fine as it is.

[G W Bush Jnr]

I got to meet Taksin at an affair at the Thai consulate in LA not to long ago while he was meeting with his as he said good friend George Bush.

I wasnt there. Must have been an 'imposter'