Allowance For Friend

[neilrob]

I hope this topic does not contravene forum rules. Many farangs provide some support to help their Thai partners. I was curious how much. To start off the topic, I have a "sammi noi". I do not live with him, since I have a primary partner. I see him about twice a week, sometimes for an evening, sometimes all day, and occasionally go on a trip with him, and, of course, pay all expenses when we are together. I give him 20,000B a month. I have also helped him with lump sums in other ways, but here I am asking about monthly payments. My impression is that this amount is reasonably generous, but I have heard of others who pay more under similar circumstances. What is your experience?

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, if it's a forbidden topic I don't think any of the straight guys should be allowed to talk about giving their wives/girlfriends money...

When I was dating one of my ex-'s, he was still a student and also working- I gave him about 3000B a month, partly because this also covered the transportation costs to visit me rather frequently. However, he wasn't the "#2 guy" at the time, and the relationship wasn't primarily about support from his point of view.

If this fellow you're going out with *knows* that he's not #1, I guess that means he would expect more from you in the short term as there would be no guarantees in the long term of support, affection, or anything else.

By way of comparison, 10-12,000B a month is a not-too-badly-paid full time job in Bangkok, which is a pretty expensive place by Thai standards. Alternately, I would say that as you approach 30,000B a month, you are also approaching the theoretical ideal daily wage of someone who is doing pretty well in the, ahem, unmentionable kind of business- to phrase it delicately.

I guess without knowing more about you, him, where you are, what his education and job prospects are like, what kind of family he's from, etc., etc., there's not much more to say except "up to you," "your mileage may vary," and "chok dee!" I hope you are encouraging him to save some of this or invest it in his own education/development.

"S"

[Steve2UK]

I see you're in Chiang Mai - as am I. So, let me first add a local dimension to IJWT's comment about BKK salaries - 8-10,000 baht salary would be between OK and pretty good for Chiang Mai [subject to age, qualifications etc].

Frankly, I don't understand what IJWT is talking about in his third paragraph - i.e. the Thai guy is not #1 so he should get more? You see this guy about twice a week for evenings/days and occasionally go on a trip with him. So, we're really talking secondary..... "on the side"? I'll say it before others do - maybe you don't have a monopoly on this sammi noi's attention? If you are setting out to have "sole access" to him, then I guess you pay whatever he wants in order to give you that monopoly and have him "on call" for whenever suits you.

Does he have a job - if so, what is it and what does he earn? What were the lump sum payments for - needs or "I would like" gifts? Do you expect to maintain him in some smart place that's good for him 7 days a week and good for you to visit/stay 2 days/nights a week? Do you expect to set him up for life?

I don't have experience of "running" more than one BF at a time - certainly not in terms of supporting more than one. I want any BF of mine to have his own independence through earning enough to walk away if he wants/needs to. I spent the best part of a year with a guy who was earning about 8,000 baht a month. I added 10,000 to that - because I could and because it felt right as sharing my good fortune to be able to do it. I would not have given him a satang if he was not earning separately - but that's me. But, he was (even by some Thai standards) a real BF and not "rent"; I can't quite make out from your description how you view this #2 guy......... secondary BF/partner or long-term "rent"?

In the absence of information on the questions above, my reaction to 20,000 baht per month (+ lump sums) in Chiang Mai is that it's not "reasonably generous" - it's well over the top for this situation. Beyond that, I agree with IJWT - "up to you"....... and it sounds like the money is not an issue for you. In any case, you're already paying at that rate - so how are you going to change it?

Edited June 8, 2008 by Steve2UK

[neilrob]

Thanks to IJWT and Steve for the interesting responses. My motive in posting the question was really curiousity and to start a discussion on the topic. I do not intend to change the amount I pay my sammi noi---I can afford it (and more to the point, he knows I can afford it).

I agree with IJWT's point that someone who knows he is number 2 might expect more. This may sound paradoxical, but if you know the relationship is (at least in part) commercial, then you might expect more emphasis on money.

The responses raised some questions, which I will briefly respond to, in order to give a little background (although this topic was not supposed to be about my particular circumstances). He knows he is a sammi noi. I believe that the relationship is based not only on commercial considerations, but also on affection. There is certainly affection on my side. I believe he likes me and enjoys my company, but I am sure that without payment, the relationship would soon be over, and I am fine with this. However, I would not be happy if there were no affection at all and it were purely commercial for him. He does not have a job. I intend to support him for a long time to come, but I have made no promises. He is bright, capable, fairly well educated and good at saving, so he should have no problem when the time comes.

[Steve2UK]

In the light of the extra detail you now provide [and with all due respect], this has little to do with supporting a friend or partner as per the topic title and your opening post. Notwithstanding your affections and his liking for you, this is essentially a straightforward commercial arrangement between you and him. That possibility was certainly in the back of my mind when I responded and - I'm assuming - also in IJWT's mind. As you now describe it, I see the 20,000 as something between a monthly salary (retainer?) and the equivalent of long-term versus daily car hire rates.

Not my style and I'm not judging - just recognising it for what it is. But let's not mix this up with supporting a friend or partner.

PS - I suspect we'll see this topic closed PDQ.

[Prakanong]

"By way of comparison, 10-12,000B a month is a not-too-badly-paid full time job in Bangkok, which is a pretty expensive place by Thai standards."

It might have been 10 years ago - we start our fresh new graduates on 40-45k THB a month now.

After a couple of years experience and they get a few 10-15% rises on top of that.

[Ijustwannateach]

^I wasn't aware I was referring to persons working in your company? Do you know the OP?

[Antimony]

... I hope you are encouraging him to save some of this or invest it in his own education/development.

"S"

Very well said!

[neilrob]

In response to Steve's second message, as I said earlier, this topic was not supposed to be about my particular circumstances, but a more general discussion of the topic ranging from people in a somewhat commercial relationship (such as me) to people in a more traditionally boyfriend situation. Thus the title of the topic is accurate---I was trying to start a general discussion, not trying to start a discussion about me! I just used my particular circumstance as a topic starter (and, historically and now, relationships between older "married" men and younger mistresses, of whatever gender, have usually had significant financial components). But I do consider him a friend. Since people asked questions, I provided some further brief background. And, in response to Antimony, he's a bright guy who does not need encouragement to look to his future.

That said, I think there have been some interesting responses---I hope that the topic will continue, but get a bit broader.

[Prakanong]

^I wasn't aware I was referring to persons working in your company? Do you know the OP?

Nah - do not know him - its been a while since I supported a Thai (and if I keep to my guns will not be doing so again)

I hope my pal has learned his lesson as well - his Thai GF had to be strapped to a stretcher and carted off to the Singapore police cells last week - she locked herself in his bedroom and would not come out. The Singapore police had the fire brigade break down the door and they carted her off - he cancelled her visa and she is gone - very efficient

[Unfaithful]

Prakonon-you get the drama queen story award!In my years with sammi noi and mia noi, never a fire brigade has come to my door.Praka-are you the guy in Singapore who only hires Thais who have degrees from the west and from Chulalongkorn, in pharmaceutical research?Thais who would make 120K in the real world?In ChiangMai, salaries go as stated by Steve2uk.

neilrob: As for me and my house-Sammi, Mia, and I live in ChiangMai.I give Mia 16K for doing everything except s-e-x, and Sammi voluntarily took a downgrade to 8 or 9K per month.Sammi hardly works.Except *for me.* smile.gif When I paid Sammi up to 13K per month, I knew it was too much.But I never insisted he *work* only for me.

neilrob-for everything that has a price, then price matters.Bargain him down.That's my advice.

[neilrob]

neilrob-for everything that has a price, then price matters.Bargain him down.That's my advice.

Good response. However, with respect to the last line and without, I hope, sounding ungracious, I did not start this topic to get advice. What I pay him I do voluntarily---I prefer to be generous.

[Prakanong]

"Prakonon-you get the drama queen story award!In my years with sammi noi and mia noi, never a fire brigade has come to my door.Praka-are you the guy in Singapore who only hires Thais who have degrees from the west and from Chulalongkorn, in pharmaceutical research?"

Not just Chula in Thailand but all have oversea's degree's - either first degree in Thailand then ovesea's for MSc or Undergrad oversea's - its the Thai's themselves who apply these standards and other countries are much less exacting for the roles.

As for the drama queen and the stretcher it has become an in-joke among us now. He tried to rib me about something and I replied, "At least the last girl who left my condo was not strapped to stretcher screaming my name" - when we see pretty girls walking past the bar we now say, "She is worth a stretcher"

[donshows]

"Prakonon-you get the drama queen story award!In my years with sammi noi and mia noi, never a fire brigade has come to my door.Praka-are you the guy in Singapore who only hires Thais who have degrees from the west and from Chulalongkorn, in pharmaceutical research?"

Not just Chula in Thailand but all have oversea's degree's - either first degree in Thailand then ovesea's for MSc or Undergrad oversea's - its the Thai's themselves who apply these standards and other countries are much less exacting for the roles.

As for the drama queen and the stretcher it has become an in-joke among us now. He tried to rib me about something and I replied, "At least the last girl who left my condo was not strapped to stretcher screaming my name" - when we see pretty girls walking past the bar we now say, "She is worth a stretcher"

[donshows]

"Prakonon-you get the drama queen story award!In my years with sammi noi and mia noi, never a fire brigade has come to my door.Praka-are you the guy in Singapore who only hires Thais who have degrees from the west and from Chulalongkorn, in pharmaceutical research?"

Not just Chula in Thailand but all have oversea's degree's - either first degree in Thailand then ovesea's for MSc or Undergrad oversea's - its the Thai's themselves who apply these standards and other countries are much less exacting for the roles.

As for the drama queen and the stretcher it has become an in-joke among us now. He tried to rib me about something and I replied, "At least the last girl who left my condo was not strapped to stretcher screaming my name" - when we see pretty girls walking past the bar we now say, "She is worth a stretcher"

I've lived in Thailand for 5 years and I'm always surprised that farang are supporting a boyfriend/girlfriend! And it is say and rightfully so..."It's my money and I can do what I want with it!" BUT what are we doing to these people buy supporting them? We are not giving them any thing but a free ride. We are not giving them any skills....well...one...to learn how to live off of someone and not themselves. When the relationship ends...and so many do, the poor boy/man/girl/woman will have nothing but a few years of living it up and then be left with NOTHING but good memories! The think that this is the way the world is. Well...not where I come from...the USA...I had to get my own money by WORKING and supporting myself. I was taught that that's the way life is.

So here we are teaching an entire nation that IF you are cute enough and SMART enough, you can get a farang to take care of you. All you have to do is put out on demand. After all...we have the MONEY and we all believe in the golden rule...."Those who have the gold, make the rules!" And the Thais know this also...that's why they all think farangs are richer than God and have more money than we can ever spend.

I have to say that I have several friends who are in long term relationships and don't support their boyfriend/girlfriends. They may help them but they don't pay them to live with them. Helping them to get an education and have a FUTURE is a good thing.

This is just one mans opinion and like I've been told....opinions are like ass holes...everyone has one and most of them stink! But I hope I've made a point.

Thanks.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Well, it's all horses for courses. It would probably be better if we got back to the topic of how much people do give, if they support a gay Thai partner- and maybe it would help to have a poll?

[Kaojai]

I hope this topic does not contravene forum rules. Many farangs provide some support to help their Thai partners. I was curious how much. To start off the topic, I have a "sammi noi". I do not live with him, since I have a primary partner. I see him about twice a week, sometimes for an evening, sometimes all day, and occasionally go on a trip with him, and, of course, pay all expenses when we are together. I give him 20,000B a month. I have also helped him with lump sums in other ways, but here I am asking about monthly payments. My impression is that this amount is reasonably generous, but I have heard of others who pay more under similar circumstances. What is your experience?

My number one has pretty much gone into retirement up north. He gets $13,500 a month plus Thai health insurance. He's on call if I have health problems and I need his help (not needed so far) and he occasionally spends a few days visiting.

Number Two visits twice a month for 3 or 4 days. He stays in Bangkok and I'm in Pattaya. He gets B20,000 a month, plus B3,000 for rent and he got a fridge, TV etc when he got settled in. He gets travel expenses and, of course, food etc is paid for when he's staying with me, as well as things that we may pick up while shopping together. He's interested in computers so he got an Acer laptop and payments for classes related to computers. That might provide him with future employment skills and it also keeps him well occupied during his free time now.

The B23,000 plus is probably on the generous side, especially considering the time spent "on the job," when compared to shop clerks or construction workers, but if you care about someone then your prime consideration shouldn't be seeking out least possible support you can get away with.

the USA...I had to get my own money by WORKING and supporting myself. I was taught that that's the way life is.

Comparing life in the USA to that for someone with limited education in Thailand is specious. Realistically both of these guys are qualified for manual labor and the younger one could probably spend a few years in a Gogo bar. They wouldn't have access to adult education or training programs or on-the-job training to gain promotions, so it's not as though they are missing anything meaningful by being out of the local employment market for the time being.

Number One does a little rice farming and used some of the money I gave him to buy some chicken and cows which are busily reproducing. He's tried a few small businesses which were not resounding successes. He's pretty much peaked in terms of alternative income-producing options.

Number Two is fascinated with computers. When we got the laptop, I explained a few things to him and then he spent the next few days glued to the thing and managed to set up a address book on Excel & playlists of downloaded music on Windows Media and was making all sorts of somewhat surreal photo images with Adobe PhotoShop on his own, so I intend to support him in developing skills which might lift his employment prospects.

Since I have no family, unless something untoward happens, they should both receive a bonus when I shuffle off this mortal coil.

[neilrob]

but if you care about someone then your prime consideration shouldn't be seeking out least possible support you can get away with.

Very good post. I agree particularly with the line quoted above---it isn't about "bargaining him down", as a previous poster suggested I do.

[coolestuk]

I give him 20,000B a month. I have also helped him with lump sums in other ways, but here I am asking about monthly payments. My impression is that this amount is reasonably generous, but I have heard of others who pay more under similar circumstances. What is your experience?

Well, I'm kinda surprised by these amounts of money. About 6 months or so after I met my thai boyfriend 7 years ago, he lost his job and I decided it was going to be an important relationship for me, I asked him how much money he would need to not have to find another job - he said he needed about 3500 baht per month. I subsequently paid for him to go back to university, and that failed, and a few years later I paid for him to do some computer courses. His alternative to not being supported by me was to have a life where he was commuting into bkk from the outskirts, and each night barely getting enough sleep. Now we are living together in the UK, and married, and he works and I no longer support him. Instead he pays his way, but sends most of his monthly salary back home to support his mother and siblings. He spends practically nothing on himself, and when it's a special occasion he buys me very generous gifts. I am not sure our relationship would have survived if he had had to return to work - not because he would have resented me not supporting him, but we simply would have had so few opportunities to keep in touch with each other.