Thailand 'risks Revolt' After Muslim Deaths

[bmw]

Thailand risks a Muslim uprising in the south after the deaths of almost 80 Muslims in military custody, the main Islamic political party in neighbouring Malaysia has said.

Most of the victims suffocated and several broke their necks when 1300 people were stuffed into vehicles for at least six hours after Thai officials used water cannon, gunfire and tear gas to break up a demonstration.

"This is tragic and a real massacre of a group of people who are just peacefully demonstrating and this will have a great effect on the feelings of southern Thai people," said Muhammad Hatta, chairman of the external affairs committee of the Parti Islam se-Malaysia (PAS).

"This latest issue will create more instability and dissatisfaction and we are very worried that people will rise against the government."

Threat

A southern Thai Muslim separatist group dormant since the 1980s said on Wednesday insurgents would take their fight to Bangkok to avenge the deaths of 78 Muslims in army custody in the deep south.

"Their capital will be burned down in the same way the Pattani capital has been burned," the Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO) said in a statement posted on its Web site.

The group, which is not thought to have an armed wing, was involved in a violent campaign in the 1970s and 1980s for an independent Muslim Kingdom of Pattani between southern Thailand and northern Malaysia.

"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights, the property they have robbed from us will be totally destroyed and their lives will face consequences for the sins they have committed," the group said.

"Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water. Our weapon is fire and oil, fire and oil, fire and oil."

Calls for inquiry

Hundreds were arrested and taken

away during the protest

Amnesty International called for an independent inquiry saying there was a "disturbing pattern of Thai security forces using excessive force" against Muslims in the south.

Thailand's justice ministry said 78 people suffocated as they were being taken in trucks to an army barracks after the protest by Muslims near the border with Malaysia on Monday.

It was the bloodiest day in the Buddhist kingdom since 28 April, when troops and police shot dead 106 machete-wielding militants in the south.

Security outposts in the restive, Muslim-majority region have been common targets in 10 months of unrest, which looks increasingly like a revived Muslim separatist movement.

PAS's Hatta said all sides should exercise restraint and start negotiating over Muslim demands for a form of autonomy in southern Thailand.

"The army should stop all military action in southern Thailand and political leaders should go back to the negotiating table," he said.

Although they live in Thailand, the country's five million Muslims share ethnic and linguistic ties with their Malay neighbours.

Inquiry announced

Thailand's premier on Wednesday announced an inquiry into the deaths.

Premier Thaksin Shinawatra ®

has not apologised

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra stopped short of an apology after Tuesday blaming fasting during the month of Ramadan and drug use among protesters for the high death toll.

"We will set up a committee to investigate why they were crowded into trucks until they couldn't breathe," Thaksin told legislators.

"We feel sorry. We tried to take care of them well. They should not have died. There will be a committee to investigate so that we can draw lessons from this."

Rights groups and the US government earlier demanded inquiries into the high death toll.

Newspaper pictures showed detainees lying face down on the back of an open top truck at least two deep with their hands tied behind their backs and five soldiers standing around them.

Thaksin told legislators a public holiday meant there were too few trucks to hold the detainees who could not breathe or drink water.

Tied and beaten

Hundreds of tearful family members gathered outside the military base on Wednesday to try to learn the fate of their relatives.

Relatives are still trying to learn

the fate of their loved ones

"Demonstrators ran away, some jumped into the canal. Soldiers and policemen beat and kick them. They were tied up by belts or rope," one man who witnessed the break-up of the protest said.

"They were loaded in six trucks, piled on four or five deep. The reason they died was because they were beaten and injured and kept in a crowded area."

Officials said 37 of the 78 victims from the crush had so far been identified and 14 bodies had been taken away by families.

Thaksin said 32 people were also injured, including 14 security officials, one of them seriously.

The protest was sparked by the arrest of six Muslim security officials accused of handing guns to separatists in the Muslim-majority south, where an insurgency has raged this year. The latest deaths take the total to at least 414 from the violence.

Streets were blocked off to the police station on Wednesday as a major clear-up operation continued amid a heavy security force presence.

Bullet holes were seen in the walls of a building opposite the police station, according to an AFP correspondent.

Condemnation

Up to 113 Muslims were killed by

Thai security in clashes in April

The Hong Kong-based Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) said in a statement that the high death toll was "most disturbing and utterly inexcusable".

One Thai newspaper said the premier should consider his own position after a series of cabinet reshuffles failed to solve the crisis amid fears of growing violence.

"Prime Minister Thaksin has pinpointed possible causes of the turbulence and reshuffled the top men in charge. It's time he took a long, hard look at himself," the English-language Nation newspaper said in a front-page comment.

Rights activists have previously accused the authorities of heavy-handed tactics in the south, including the storming of a mosque in April that left 32 people dead. A total of 113 people were killed in the one-day uprising.

The insurgency in the south of mainly Buddhist Thailand has continued sporadically for decades and came to life again in January with a raid on an army depot.

Agencies

By

You can find this article at:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/1B0...CCFABF6BCCF.htm

[Neeranam]

I wonder what the deathtoll of Thai citizens is under his rule compared to the previous PM's.

Some Thai citizens I spoke to say, "good" the country is getting rid of those they don't want - dangerous.

[igotworms]

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra stopped short of an apology after Tuesday blaming fasting during the month of Ramadan and drug use among protesters for the high death toll.

This is insane. Thaksin is insane. The people of this country are insane if they let this blow over.

<deleted>?

Thaksin and his buddies should be removed from office, by force if it needs to be. Send in the guns, let the coup begin.

[davethailand]

"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights, the property they have robbed from us will be totally destroyed and their lives will face consequences for the sins they have committed," the group said.

"Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water. Our weapon is fire and oil, fire and oil, fire and oil."

Deal with these fanatics now.!!

[Darknight]

Get ready for suicide bombers in Bangkok

shouldn't take that long anymore

[stroll]

Better to cause some damage before you die in the back of a truck hands tied on your back with 5-6 others on top of you, eh? A few of my Muslim neighbours in Bkk slowly come to think that way...

[Nam Kao]

>>>"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights

Is this guy talking about me, why that @Q#$$@#%

[SoCal]

Better to cause some damage before you die in the back of a truck hands tied on your back with 5-6 others on top of you, eh? A few of my Muslim neighbours in Bkk slowly come to think that way...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Better not to break law. Better not to be arrested.

Better to honor thy family, than to get caught up in a fervor, and die in the back of a truck.

Where has all the common sense gone?

[stroll]

'Common sense' thinks unarmed demonstrators should not die in the back of trucks while in police custody.

[Heng]

Maybe the protesters were being rude.

[SoCal]

'Common sense' thinks unarmed demonstrators should not die in the back of trucks while in police custody.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People need to take responsibility for their actions.

Common sense- look for trouble, find trouble.

They need not have found themselves on the back of that truck Stroll. I'm not saying they should have died, or they got what they deserved, but they were there for a reason which they themselves created.

What happened to your quip- TIT?

[Pepe']

I have said before and I will say again. "All radical Muslim terrorists must die."

[charlie dunn]

Very unfortunate turn of affairs, but while I do not wish to see anyones rights being violated the fact is these groups will continue to cause problems.

Personally I have spent to much time in muslim countries & I am afraid the attitude is that the rest of the world are all infidel & they really do hate us regardless of what they say.

what do we do? dont know but we cannot have a repeat of 9/11 or brits being dragged through Khobar (after the guy was shot), people being murdrered in the name of Allah (Ken Bigley)

Whatever it takes these people must be stopped

[stroll]

What happened to your quip- TIT?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is quip- TIT?

I have said before and I will say again. "All radical Muslim terrorists must die."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any suggestions how "they must die"? And how you would differentiate between terrorists and unarmed demonstrators or agitated youth? Or is there no distinction necessary?

[SoCal]

Stroll,

Quip-

1 a : a clever usually taunting remark : GIBE b : a witty or funny observation or response usually made on the spur of the moment

TIT-

This is Thailand

------------------------------------------------

Stroll, I have never once said that they should have died. I have said that they share responsibility.

The only way this will ever be solved is by both parties being intellectualy honest, and taking responsibility for what has happened/is happening/and will happen.

Here's a test for you- go spit in the face of a Thai cop, then post his reaction here. Do you think you will find sympathy? How is it different for a muslim? It's not.

These Muslims played a role in their destiny. To not address this is to end any possible discourse. Not between you and I, but between Muslims and with whom they have problems.

[mouse]

I have said before and I will say again. "All radical Muslim terrorists must die."

And they proabably will; while exploding as suicide bombers and in the process taking another 50 or so other people with them.

Religious teachings in both Buddism and the Muslim faith do not advocate this type of action by anyone. If this problem is to be controlled than the killing must stop, remove the military from the south immediately and then have the regilous leaders of both sides negotiate. It seems they have tried everything else and it has failed.

[stroll]

And I am not saying they shouldn't have been arrested.

What lead them to demonstrate and what would have been an adequate response is not something I am refusing to discuss, but the fact that people died they way they did in police custody and the consequences of this is most in the foreground in the article and in my comments.

[sriracha john]

Get ready for suicide bombers in Bangkok 

shouldn't take that long anymore

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nor expensive.... wouldn't be ironic if they all flew Thaksin's Air Asia up from Hat Yai???

[sriracha john]

------------------------------------------------

Stroll, I have never once said that they should have died. I have said that they share responsibility.

The only way this will ever be solved is by both parties being intellectualy honest, and taking responsibility for what has happened/is happening/and will happen.

If that shared responsibility includes a fine and/or short jail term and/or community service for illegal protesting or some other minor offense, then yes.

If it means dying in a barbaric manner as their sentence for that offense, then no.

Punishment has to be commensurate with the crime.

[mbkudu]

I have said before and I will say again. "All radical Muslim terrorists must die."

I guess I will say this again as well because my post was deleted. Have you ever stopped to think WHY there are radical Muslims in the world? Every coin has two sides as every history and every story. Take care, rest easy and keep watching TV.

[bartender100]

Here s the link to the bbc's video of the massacre,I think you need braodband to watch it.Get it before its banned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3957019.stm#

[Darth Bangkok]

I have said before and I will say again. "All radical Muslim terrorists must die."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what kind of idiot are you? are these radical fundamentalist muslim terrorists that have said death to all Thais because they are buddhist? or is it a bunch of people that are fed up with being treated like animals for decades and have no hope for their future except to be stuffed in the back of trucks like chickens (which is a terrrible way to treat even chickens)?

Thai people treat Thai people with disrepect. ask anyone from Isaan if they have the same opportunities as people from other parts of the country. ask a thai woman how easy it is to find a job if you are more than 30 and married. or younger than thirty and not beautiful. ask the thai people who's ancestors have been living in the hills of northen thailand for thousands of years - they can't get passports, but the gov't is happy to issue them id cards that the police can then use to harass then and drive them off their land. the list goes on. today I had to go to suan plu and was treated like I was less than human again - and for those holier than thous who like to get off blasting others, i went in a suit and tie and didn't open my mouth at all today.

[Darth Bangkok]

"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights, the property they have robbed from us will be totally destroyed and their lives will face consequences for the sins they have committed," the group said.

"Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water. Our weapon is fire and oil, fire and oil, fire and oil."

Deal with these fanatics now.!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately this is a problem that is never going to go away. The problem is 'belief systems'. Human beings can be made to believe 'anything' whether it has anything to do with reality or not. And then we have to ask, 'who's' reality?

Organized religion is something that goes beyond my conception... I do not personally understand how any adult can be religious, or believe whole heartedly in a God that cannot be touched, seen or sensed with any of our senses. Surely books such as the Bible, Koran and words of Buddha were originally Philosophies and not meant to turn all manner of men against each other to the point that they will kill each other in thousands/millions because they do not agree with other respective philosophies.

I see not end to this lunacy until all religion is bannished from the earth... and that may be a very long time in the future........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if only this were about religion...

[Bong]

I have said before and I will say again. "All radical Muslim terrorists must die."

And they proabably will; while exploding as suicide bombers and in the process taking another 50 or so other people with them.

Religious teachings in both Buddism and the Muslim faith do not advocate this type of action by anyone. If this problem is to be controlled than the killing must stop, remove the military from the south immediately and then have the regilous leaders of both sides negotiate. It seems they have tried everything else and it has failed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your first point may sadly come true Mouse but your second is highly questionable. Please see Koran quote below. There are plenty more unpleasant passages like this. Can you find a similar message from Buddhist teachings?

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran...IV0&byte=114839

4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Bong

[kat]

Bong:

I am definitely not one to defend the Qu'ran, because I have read it, along with the Hadiths and material by acclaimed Muslim scholars. The violence is there, as well as all non-muslims worst fears. The beauty is also there. All monothesistic religions have their beauty, and their horrors. This is how they have survived for so long.

However, I really wouldn't want to enter into a match about which is better, although I guess it is unavoidable. But, when I look around at Buddhist countries, I have to tell you that I don't see a paragon of compassionate, non-violent people. I see violence, hypocrisy, bigotry, and greed everywhere. But true, they are not blowing up buildings in the name of their religion, but each other in the name of nothing.

[SoCal]

------------------------------------------------

Stroll, I have never once said that they should have died. I have said that they share responsibility.

The only way this will ever be solved is by both parties being intellectualy honest, and taking responsibility for what has happened/is happening/and will happen.

If that shared responsibility includes a fine and/or short jail term and/or community service for illegal protesting or some other minor offense, then yes.

If it means dying in a barbaric manner as their sentence for that offense, then no.

Punishment has to be commensurate with the crime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Give me a break, do you think this is the EU?

During the Vietnam war several were killed at Kent State for protesting/rioting. Sure that similar things have happened in Europe.

FYI, Thailand is a long way from USA & Europe when it comes to rule of law, and just punushment.

You can get someone killed in Thailand for a bottle of whiskey.

This isn't home Gomer, and these lads should have thought twice before doing what they were doing given the past and current tensions.

Once again, I am not saying that they deserved to die, and an investigation should not take place. What I am saying is that they share a responsibility, and to ignore that, like the Muslim leader putting the blame squarely on the govt., and threatening to have blood flow in the streets does nothing but exacerbate an already dire situation.

Throwing a rock at a soldier is not equatable with getting shot in the head, but don't be surprised if you get shot when you throw that rock.

Got it.

[Bong]

Bong:

I am definitely not one to defend the Qu'ran, because I have read it, along with the Hadiths and material by acclaimed Muslim scholars.  The violence is there, as well as all non-muslims worst fears.  The beauty is also there.  All monothesistic religions have their beauty, and their horrors.  This is how they have survived for so long.

However, I really wouldn't want to enter into a match about which is better, although I guess it is unavoidable.  But, when I look around at Buddhist countries, I have to tell you that I don't see a paragon of compassionate, non-violent people.  I see violence, hypocrisy, bigotry, and greed everywhere.  But true, they are not blowing up buildings in the name of their religion, but each other in the name of nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK I am certainly not trying to defend any particular religion but I notice many posters seem to think the violence is entirely secular and Islam cannot be in anyway be associated with it. This position seems hardly credible given what is reported on a daily basis. Muslims do seem to have serious difficulties living in peace with non-Muslims in too many parts of the world for it to be coincidental. This begs the question why?

[guran]

Muslims do seem to have serious difficulties living in peace with non-Muslims in too many parts of the world for it to be coincidental.  This begs the question why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Any subjugated homogenous group of people will eventually rebel.

Muslim/Muslim wars are by no means uncommon , the closest ( geographically) example to hand is the war between Malaysia & Indonesia.

The most recent Iraq and Kuwait.

[Bong]

But its the way they do it - random attacks against 13 yr old monks and elderly civilians not just people that could be claimed to represent the government such as policemen. Must be about 200 such attacks in the last 12 months or so. Quite unjustified and so brutal.

What exactly are they expecting to achieve. Have they really exhausted peaceful means of protest if they have legitimate grievances. I don't recall seeing these people presenting petitions to parliament. Are they really so subjugated. They are free to build their mosques and go about their lives. Try getting permission to build a church in an Islamic country.

This is not about subjugation. It is a religiously motivated and internationally supported attempt to destabilise an 'infidel' country in this case Thailand. Do you seriously imagine for a moment that if these people were given independence they would set up some shining example of a peaceful moderate Islamic country.

[guran]

But its the way they do it - random attacks against 13 yr old monks and elderly civilians not just people that could be claimed to represent the government such as policemen.  Must be about 200 such attacks in the last 12 months or so. Quite unjustified and so brutal.

Difficult for us to to tell exactly which attacks are due to 'normal' criminal activities and which are politically motivated.

Am sure that Islamic extremists are routinely blamed.

What exactly are they expecting to achieve.  Have they really exhausted peaceful means of protest if they have legitimate grievances.  I don't recall seeing these people presenting petitions to parliament.  Are they really so subjugated. They are free to build their mosques and go about their lives.  Try getting permission to build a church in an Islamic country.

Thaksin made sure that the dialogue that existed before has ceased, what do you think he will do with a petition ?

Mosques exists in Patani as do churches in Malaysia and many other Islamic countries including Iraq.

Religious freedom is not something which is limited to christian countries, likewise the lack of it is not limited to muslim countries.

Religious freedom tends to go hand in hand with political freedom , it is mainly in the developing nations where both are restricted.

This is not about subjugation.  It is a religiously motivated and internationally supported attempt to destabilise an 'infidel' country in this case Thailand.  Do you seriously imagine for a moment that if these people were given independence they would set up some shining example of a peaceful moderate Islamic country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The muslims in Patani are said to be moderate , there has however been an independence movement which has existed since the subjugation in 1906.

The Patani's were for example promised independence by the Brits in return for their assistance in fighting the Japs/Thai's.

Their fellow Malays in Malaysia are moderate, why should the Patani go along a different path after independence ?