Change Of Visa Rules?

[Brabander]

I arrived in Thailand two months ago on a non-immigrant O visa, which I received at the Thai Embassy in The Hague, Holland.

I got married to a Thai about 6 years ago in Holland and had all my papers officially translated and legalized by Dutch authoraties and Thai Embassy. After a lot of hassle at the Amphur in Si Saket, I had to go to BKK to have it legalized by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is against international rules, but what can you do. Finally they gave me the right marriage papers in Si Saket.

At the Immigration Office in BKK they gave me, after a 5 hour wait, a one year retirement visa. I applied for a marriage visa, but they just ignored it. I had prepared all my papers, including a map of my village, bankstatement about the amount of money and it coming from abroad, etc. When I had to sign a paper about the 8K and I nicely tried to ask a few questions about the marriage visa and 4K.(they had send my wife away to take 1000 Baht from the bankaccount to proof there was still 8K in it). The ladies English was very poor and she started to talk to a collegue in Thai about "rowing against the stream" (My wife heard that when she returned). They never looked at the prepared papers, including proof of marriage. When she handed all the papers to a lady in the back for approval, I tried to ask it again and also got no clear answer. You try next time! We let the matter go, otherwise I probably would not have gotten any visa at all. Anybody having that same experience? What did I do wrong?

[Lite Beer]

I arrived in Thailand two months ago on a non-immigrant O visa, which I received at the Thai Embassy in The Hague, Holland.

I got married to a Thai about 6 years ago in Holland and had all my papers officially translated and legalized by Dutch authoraties and Thai Embassy. After a lot of hassle at the Amphur in Si Saket, I had to go to BKK to have it legalized by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is against international rules, but what can you do. Finally they gave me the right marriage papers in Si Saket.

At the Immigration Office in BKK they gave me, after a 5 hour wait, a one year retirement visa. I applied for a marriage visa, but they just ignored it. I had prepared all my papers, including a map of my village, bankstatement about the amount of money and it coming from abroad, etc. When I had to sign a paper about the 8K and I nicely tried to ask a few questions about the marriage visa and 4K.(they had send my wife away to take 1000 Baht from the bankaccount to proof there was still 8K in it). The ladies English was very poor and she started to talk to a collegue in Thai about "rowing against the stream" (My wife heard that when she returned). They never looked at the prepared papers, including proof of marriage. When she handed all the papers to a lady in the back for approval, I tried to ask it again and also got no clear answer. You try next time! We let the matter go, otherwise I probably would not have gotten any visa at all. Anybody having that same experience? What did I do wrong?

To get a years extension based on Marriage to a Thai you need a monthly income of 40,000 Baht. NOT 400,000 Baht in a bank.

That is probably why they gave you the Retirement Extension with 800,000.

It seems they were doing you a favour and helping you because you do not qualify for a Marriage Extension.

Lucky you are over 50 and had the 800,000 in the bank.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Lite Beer

[Ray1167]

I always find immigration Bangkok to be very well informed and polite . Some of the farang who go in there on the other hand ......

[Lite Beer]

I always find immigration Bangkok to be very well informed and polite . Some of the farang who go in there on the other hand ......

Exactly.

But it looks like the OP just did not understand the requirements.

They could have easily sent him away with nothing but they sorted him out.

Unless I read his post wrong.

The Police Order Requirements are here.

(6) In case of the applicant who is

married to a Thai wife, one of them

or both of them need to have the

total annual income that is

averaged out not less than 40,000

Baht per month. Except for the case

that the said foreign national has

entered Thailand before this Order

is enforced and the foreign national

has been permitted to stay in the

Kingdom by the result of having

married to a Thai wife, then if the

applicant does not have the said

income, then, the latest 3 months

records of the account book of any

Bank in Thailand with the account

name of either or both parties need

to have the amount of money not

less than 400,000 Baht.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Lite Beer

[whatchamacallit]

I arrived in Thailand two months ago on a non-immigrant O visa, which I received at the Thai Embassy in The Hague, Holland.

I got married to a Thai about 6 years ago in Holland and had all my papers officially translated and legalized by Dutch authoraties and Thai Embassy. After a lot of hassle at the Amphur in Si Saket, I had to go to BKK to have it legalized by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This is against international rules, but what can you do. Finally they gave me the right marriage papers in Si Saket.

At the Immigration Office in BKK they gave me, after a 5 hour wait, a one year retirement visa. I applied for a marriage visa, but they just ignored it. I had prepared all my papers, including a map of my village, bankstatement about the amount of money and it coming from abroad, etc. When I had to sign a paper about the 8K and I nicely tried to ask a few questions about the marriage visa and 4K.(they had send my wife away to take 1000 Baht from the bankaccount to proof there was still 8K in it). The ladies English was very poor and she started to talk to a collegue in Thai about "rowing against the stream" (My wife heard that when she returned). They never looked at the prepared papers, including proof of marriage. When she handed all the papers to a lady in the back for approval, I tried to ask it again and also got no clear answer. You try next time! We let the matter go, otherwise I probably would not have gotten any visa at all. Anybody having that same experience? What did I do wrong?

You can't get upset at Immigration (BKK, Pattaya or anywhere in Thailand) - they hold all the cards. Take a deep breath and put up a big smile. You'll get further, faster that way. Arguing and trying to stick it to them and show them how smart you are and how stupid they are - only make them loose face then you'll have a REAL problem. Tit and good luck next time.

[tartempion]

I always find immigration Bangkok to be very well informed and polite . Some of the farang who go in there on the other hand ......

Are you implying the OP behaved like an *shole?

If you do so on what basis?

This country changes the milestones so often most of us get confused and some get fed-up with the rules and system.

That I think is what the authorities want to achieve

I brought my Vigo to the Toyota dealer asking for the 40k kms maintenace.

When they presented the invoice it was for 50K maintenance.

Seems similar to what they did to the OP.

Reasoning was my car would have 50k kms before the 3 year guarantee period would expire and maintenace labor is free until then.

So they decided it would be advantageous for me to benefit from the free 3 hours maintenace work for 50k kms in stead of the one hour required for 40k kms maintenace. I don't know their daily maintenace tarif, say 500B/8 = 62.5B/hour: my savings of 125B

Invoice though was 4kB in stead of 1k for 40k kms maintenace and I really could wait for my car to reach 50k kms and to pay the extra 125B for maintence work, but that is farang thinking, not Thai thinking.

So I guess Immigration officers did him a favor also the poor sod.

[Badbanker]

Might I suggest that we remember that this is not our country and we are most welcome to leave it if we do not like the rules.

It is our duty to know the rules and to conform to them!

Badbanker!

[Lite Beer]

. Arguing and trying to stick it to them and show them how smart you are and how stupid they are - only make them loose face then you'll have a REAL problem. Tit and good luck next time.

The fact is He did not get the extension because he did not have the income to get this kind of extension. The requirements are clear.

Simple as that.

The fact that he was able to get an extension on another basis is good news for him and shows that the Immigration Officer was doing her job.

He should have asked them what he was entitled to and what the rules were before he applied.

[whatchamacallit]

. Arguing and trying to stick it to them and show them how smart you are and how stupid they are - only make them loose face then you'll have a REAL problem. Tit and good luck next time.

The fact is He did not get the extension because he did not have the income to get this kind of extension. The requirements are clear.

Simple as that.

The fact that he was able to get an extension on another basis is good news for him and shows that the Immigration Officer was doing her job.

He should have asked them what he was entitled to and what the rules were before he applied.

You're completely missing the point I'm trying to get accross... ok maybe in the OP's case he did not meet all the requirements... BUT let's face it - there are many posters here (including me) who have experienced cold and stone faced Immigration officers who don't seem to know didley shit and will give you the run-around eventhough you have met all requirements!!! What was trying to tell the OP is to put on a BIG smile no matter what - as being upset and trying to tell them YOU ARE RIGHT and THEY ARE NOT - will NOT do you any good! Got it???? Duh!

[Tod Daniels]

I believe the other posters are correct in their assertions that O/P did not get the marriage extension because while he may have had all the documentation to get the marriage visa he did not meet the income requirements.

I also believe from his post, the immigration officials went out of their way and gave him the year's extension based on retirement, when in fact they could have sent him away empty handed.

I have visited Thai Immigrations at Suan Plu at least 10 times in the last month, with different friends of mine; 'holding their hands' and walking them thru their extensions and application process. To a person the immigrations people were polite and courteous. Then again, I made sure before we went that they had correctly filled out applications, all the support documentation, bank letters, passport copies, photos, fees, etc, for the visa they were applying for.

While I think the people on this forum who say "we are free to leave if we don't like it" are a bunch of shallow sock puppets; I will agree we DO have to follow the rules. Rules which I might add can be selectively enforced depending on many things; attitude being one of the items I would put at the top of the list.

From my personal experience some of the foreigners who are at immigrations hurt their cause more than help it by several factors; their appearance, their manners, by becoming frustrated, by NOT having someone who can translate for them if they can't speak thai, by not having the correct supporting documents, and/or by becoming overly aggressive and loud if/when things don't go their way. Blatant 'fox-paws' like that will close more doors here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" than they will open in dealing with these ever smiling diminutive people, especially if any of them has a direct impact on your life here.

Know the rules beforehand; go prepared. With the plethora of information on this forum, the knowledge of some of the moderators and other posters, there is little reason someone should show up at immigrations without knowing at least vaguely what is going on for their particular visa situation.

Rules are tools; work within them to achieve your goals.

[Lite Beer]

I believe the other posters are correct in their assertions that O/P did not get the marriage extension because while he may have had all the documentation to get the marriage visa he did not meet the income requirements.

I also believe from his post, the immigration officials went out of their way and gave him the year's extension based on retirement, when in fact they could have sent him away empty handed.

I have visited Thai Immigrations at Suan Plu at least 10 times in the last month, with different friends of mine; 'holding their hands' and walking them thru their extensions and application process. To a person the immigrations people were polite and courteous. Then again, I made sure before we went that they had correctly filled out applications, all the support documentation, bank letters, passport copies, photos, fees, etc, for the visa they were applying for.

While I think the people on this forum who say "we are free to leave if we don't like it" are a bunch of shallow sock puppets; I will agree we DO have to follow the rules. Rules which I might add can be selectively enforced depending on many things; attitude being one of the items I would put at the top of the list.

From my personal experience some of the foreigners who are at immigrations hurt their cause more than help it by several factors; their appearance, their manners, by becoming frustrated, by NOT having someone who can translate for them if they can't speak thai, by not having the correct supporting documents, and/or by becoming overly aggressive and loud if/when things don't go their way. Blatant 'fox-paws' like that will close more doors here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" than they will open in dealing with these ever smiling diminutive people, especially if any of them has a direct impact on your life here.

Know the rules beforehand; go prepared. With the plethora of information on this forum, the knowledge of some of the moderators and other posters, there is little reason someone should show up at immigrations without knowing at least vaguely what is going on for their particular visa situation.

Rules are tools; work within them to achieve your goals.

Thanks Tod.

We are all too quick to criticize Immigration Officials and when they actually go out of their way to help someone they still get an ear bashing.

[Badbanker]

At my last extension I was astounded at the number of people that are obviously not prepared for their visa extension.

As you sit there (for 3 hours) and watch in the dreaded extension room, you can see the officers being very patient and explaining what was needed and what they need to prepare if they want to get an extension.  You see one person going away and getting a photocopy or a photo or another document and then returning.  Obviously these people had not done their homework and had not read all the threads on this forum to establish what was necessary to be sucessful!

What peeved me and a number of others I was sitting near was the fact that when our turn came it was over in 5-10 mins and we were gone, something 90% of the people applying could have done.

If the OP had done his howework and prepared a tax certificate stating his wife's 40k income a month he could have got an extension based on marriage!

BB

Edited June 18, 2008 by Badbanker

[Thanh-BKK]

What peeved me and a number of others I was sitting near was the fact that when our turn came it was over in 5-10 mins and we were gone, something 90% of the people applying could have done.

Hi

Now THAT happens just about everywhere.... specially at immigration and banks! you stand in line for EVER, when it is your turn the clerk has to go to toilet or take a phone call or whatever to disappear for 10 minutes and when she returns you're done in seconds......

Always the same, every single time i go to a bank.

But about authorities, i understand the OP very well.... many times i had been in places to get something, had "done my homework" and all required documents prepared only to find out that at 8 am that morning a new rule "had just come into effect" and i needed one more paper from a different institution, which in effect worked out to another day wasted.

And they are sure sadists behind those counters! I could SENSE how disappointed the lady at the transportation department was when she sifted thru my stack of papers when i applied for my Thai driving licenses.... she asked "doctor letter", i pointed it out to her - she smiled and said "you get two driving licenses (car and motorbike), you must have this twice and not photocopy!" and when i pointed out to her that the two sheets of paper were in fact two of the same letters, each an original with stamp and signature, the smile disappeared and she THREW a number ticket at me - "you go upstairs and wait!" Oh how she had wished i was missing a paper and would have to come again next day......... they LOVE giving you the run-around here.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Mario2008]

I have nothing but good cooperation from both immigration and the labour department. Forgot a document? No problem, here is you visa. Just mail the document tomorrow. Director out of town for a few weeks, no problem. Let him sign it and send it to us wen he comes back. Here is you work permit.

As in every country there are a few exceptions, but by far both immigration and labour office are professional and will try to help you. And it will help if you are polite to them and prepare the documents you need. In no way can I say that they love to give me the run-around.

[raro]

I have nothing but good cooperation from both immigration and the labour department. Forgot a document? No problem, here is you visa. Just mail the document tomorrow. Director out of town for a few weeks, no problem. Let him sign it and send it to us wen he comes back. Here is you work permit.

As in every country there are a few exceptions, but by far both immigration and labour office are professional and will try to help you. And it will help if you are polite to them and prepare the documents you need. In no way can I say that they love to give me the run-around.

please tell me your secret...I never got this favour for myself nor for anybody that I could think of. Documents not complete = no process, in most cases application not even accepted.

[whatchamacallit]

And they are sure sadists behind those counters! I could SENSE how disappointed the lady at the transportation department was when she sifted thru my stack of papers when i applied for my Thai driving licenses.... she asked "doctor letter", i pointed it out to her - she smiled and said "you get two driving licenses (car and motorbike), you must have this twice and not photocopy!" and when i pointed out to her that the two sheets of paper were in fact two of the same letters, each an original with stamp and signature, the smile disappeared and she THREW a number ticket at me - "you go upstairs and wait!" Oh how she had wished i was missing a paper and would have to come again next day......... they LOVE giving you the run-around here.

Best regards.....

Thanh

..funny the same thing happened to me when I applied for my driver's license last week - I came prepared... originals, photos, health cert., copies and all.... She looked so UPSET when I was able to produce everything she asked for... THEN.......... aha!! You must give me a copy of this... she pointed to the back of my California Driver's license which has nothing but a black magnetic stripe.... go figure!!!! TIT..........

[Mario2008]

<br />

I have nothing but good cooperation from both immigration and the labour department. Forgot a document? No problem, here is you visa. Just mail the document tomorrow. Director out of town for a few weeks, no problem. Let him sign it and send it to us wen he comes back. Here is you work permit.<br />As in every country there are a few exceptions, but by far both immigration and labour office are professional and will try to help you. And it will help if you are polite to them and prepare the documents you need. In no way can I say that they love to give me the run-around.

<br /><br /><br /> please tell me your secret...I never got this favour for myself nor for anybody that I could think of. Documents not complete = no process, in most cases application not even accepted.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

My secret is that I'm just a nice guy. (I was once even offered residency by immigration). But next to that I do volunteer work, for a government school. That might also help. Next to the fact that I make use of a small limmigration and labour office. The simplyy don't have the workload of Chiang Mai or BKK.

[leemo]

How does one 'prove' a monthly income of 40k?

My quarterly income from the UK would qualify, but aside from my bank book showing transferred amounts (which btw could be something other than income), what paperwork do I need?

Somebody on another board mentioned it requires no more than an affirmation sealed by the embassy in bkk (does it need to be translated into Thai and then validated at some ministry?), but they do no checks at the embassy so one could claim any amount as an income.

[Mario2008]

Correct. If you don't have your income from within Thailand itself you have to go to your embassy and have your income certified by them. What your embassy accepts as evidence is up to your embassy.

You don't need to have it translated and legalized, but your embassy can also tell you if you need or not.

[Lite Beer]

It can also be your Wife's income if she has one.