That's the first I've heard about Thaksin's lawyers representing the parents and teachers even after re-reading all I can find on the subject. Where did you hear this?

Can't remember, in one of the first articles on the issue.

Are you refering to this ?

The PAD leaders charged that the petition was politically motivated. They believed it was a ploy to disperse their protest because the plaintiffs' lawyer, Methee Jaisamut, is a younger brother of Supachai Jaisamut, a deputy spokesman of the People Power party (PPP).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020708_News/02Jul2008_news15.php

Fair enough - sounds that way to me too. So many of these court cases seem to stem from the similar motivations.

< more blah blah blah >

more blah blah blah duly ignored

Your childishness exceeds that of my dear 3-year old; at least he goes to bed at 8pm! Cheers!

sunrise07: maybe you should stay on the topic instead of being rude (also on other topics).

Why are you showing examples of quotes and then commenting on them. SJ changes the contents of the other posters quotes anyway. Sorry if you were not aware of this childish tactic of his.

What about that "There really doesn't seem to be a point to any of your posts other than that you are obviously suffering mentally. Get well soon!" Against "TAWP"?

All the time when you run out of arguments (which happens often while defending Thaksin, PPP and Samak) you just attacking other users.

Well, yes, we all run out of arguments some time. Isn't that the point of this incarnation; to stop fighting anyone and anything, to let go, to live in acceptance, tolerance and peace. You seem to take this banter so personally when it is meant as entertainment, a diversion from the mundanity of everyday life and nothing more.

it is meant as entertainment, a diversion from the mundanity of ...

Diversions... yeah, that's what they are. Little wonder people often ask you to stay on topic.

That's the first I've heard about Thaksin's lawyers representing the parents and teachers even after re-reading all I can find on the subject. Where did you hear this?

Can't remember, in one of the first articles on the issue.

Are you refering to this ?

The PAD leaders charged that the petition was politically motivated. They believed it was a ploy to disperse their protest because the plaintiffs' lawyer, Methee Jaisamut, is a younger brother of Supachai Jaisamut, a deputy spokesman of the People Power party (PPP).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020708_News/02Jul2008_news15.php

Coincidentally, Chalerm had also stopped making threats as they were convinced that was it for the PAD.

Here's something quite interesting I had noted in the past and mentioned here somewhere, it hasn't stopped. The Thaksin/TRT/PPP fear factor, practically gone. Thai friends used to whisper about Thaksin 4 or 5 years ago, later on they spoke of him in a normal tone of voice, today they shout Thaksin gket koot (go to jail) even though the neighbors and customers can hear and they now go to PAD rallies a few times a week.

Edited July 11, 200818 yr by Tony Clifton

Let's get back to the OP. (Why am I always the one to bring the topic back to the OP?)

How exactly is the security at Government House blocking the Anti-government protesters? Any updates?

That's the first I've heard about Thaksin's lawyers representing the parents and teachers even after re-reading all I can find on the subject. Where did you hear this?

Can't remember, in one of the first articles on the issue.

Are you refering to this ?

The PAD leaders charged that the petition was politically motivated. They believed it was a ploy to disperse their protest because the plaintiffs' lawyer, Methee Jaisamut, is a younger brother of Supachai Jaisamut, a deputy spokesman of the People Power party (PPP).

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020708_News/02Jul2008_news15.php

Coincidentally, Chalerm had also stopped making threats as they were convinced that was it for the PAD.

Here's something quite interesting I had noted in the past and mentioned here somewhere, it hasn't stopped. The Thaksin/TRT/PPP fear factor, practically gone. Thai friends used to whisper about Thaksin 4 or 5 years ago, later on they spoke of him in a normal tone of voice, today they shout Thaksin gket koot (go to jail) even though the neighbors and customers can hear and they now go to PAD rallies a few times a week.

That's right. Most people have have forgotten about the climate of fear that existed in this country at that time.

"PAD plans campaign to oust judges

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) plans to gather 20,000 voters' signatures to kick-start impeachment proceedings against two Civil Court judges for ordering the alliance to stop blocking Rama V and Phitsanulok roads during school hours. Maj-Gen Chamlong Srimuang said all five PAD leaders agreed with the move. At least 20,000 signatures would be submitted to the Senate to support the impeachment bid. "

http://www.bangkokpost.com/090708_News/09Jul2008_news06.php

Looks like PAD is really off the rails this time.

The PAD being in conflict with the courts is a very useful meme to have going and being reported on every form of media at the same time as the courts find against the Thaksinistas if you happen to be of the anti-Thaksin persuasion. The courts must be or be seen to be strictly neutral and right now both the Thaksinistas and the public face of opposition to them are having a bad month in court.

I am one of those people who don't believe individual judges are completely impartial when it comes to political matters. That goes for every country, not just Thailand. However, as the court system is the closest thing to justice we can come up with, it is my belief we just have to accept the umpires decision unless the decision is blatantly unjust. PAD taking up a petition in an effort to sack the judges who brought down a decision against them just seems bizarre.

It has always amazed me that in a country where censorship and government interference in the media are rife, their constitution allows political protest sit-ins (call them camp ins), in city streets for weeks at a time. I don't know of any other democracy that puts such weight on the right to protest as to allow political protesters to disrupt the lives of residents and commuters by building stages and camping in the streets for weeks at a time (in fact, an indeterminate amount of time). I am sure such a thing wouldn't be tolerated for more than a day or so in London or Washington. But then again, most modern democracies respect the rights of the majority and civil order. And most modern democracies don't have the threat of the military intervening to take over government via a coup if police attempt to restore order under such circumstances.

Getting back to the gist of your reply there Hammered (if I have interpreted it right), I cant see that by PAD taking on the judges in such a blatantly provocative manner would enhance the general public perception of the courts impartiality or not. Coming on the heels of PADS "New Politics" proposal of appointed rather than elected public representatives in parliament, I see this latest gesture of defiance as something that is likely to diminish PADs credibility in the public eye and cause it to be seen as little more than a waning political force simply trying to grab headlines to stay alive.

My analysis is conspiratorial.

Sure the PAD have been deserted by a lot of the social groups that used to support them and a lot of the middle class. the real opposition to the Thaksinistas is not the PAD it resides in other areas, some of which are lying low, some of which are bored, some of which are trying to cut deals with Samak. However, the hope of these groups is that the courts will sort the Thaksinistas out. To date the decisons have gone against the anti-T group. If these were the only politcal cases coming up it would look very much like politcally influenced decisons. However, it is noticeable that at the same time the PAD who are the only publically noticed anti-T group are also suffering at the hands of the courts. That mitigates strongly against any accusations of poltical bias when cases go against Thaksin et al. The courts either are or appear to be deciding against both groups in an even handed manner. But at the end of the day if the courts smash the Thaksinistas nobody including the PAD will care if they get smashed up, fined or even banned from politcs too as their ultimate aim is achieved. Whereas it will be small consulation to the Thaksinistas that the PAD went down with them. Remember the PAD are now portraying themselves and being media portrayed as an increasingly bizarre and marginalized extremist group. The after the denouement media spin is very easy to see: that for the best of the country it is good that both extremes (PAD and Thaksinistas) were taken out.

My analysis is based on the real and larger opposition to Thaksin and his friends is pretty much underground and still working behind the scenes to achieve their aims. The PAD have been abandoned and will be nicely set up as a bizarre extremist group and sacrificed to give cover to the decisions that will be coming the PPP/TRT way.

Still I may just have an overactive imagination. Then again most Thai analysts who have been at the game for decades dont seem to know whats coming down the line so......

The PAD will disappear when Thaksin+cronies are away. PAD was only founded to kick Thaksin. they come from the ultra-right till ultra-left, so they have nothing together beside that they want Thaksin away.

The PAD is no danger for Thailand or anything else.

Again - that's right.

The PAD protests two and a half years ago were as a direct consequence - and a public counter - to the dictatorial and authoritarian rule and corrupt excess of Thaksin and his TRT government.

Nothings really changed. Square Face is still behind the scenes - paying people off - judges - military - civil servants - Cambodian politicians - the judiciary - etc -

That's why the PAD are compelled to continue protesting for a different government. A government that doesn't have the best interests of its illustrious proxy leader - Thaksin - as its main priority.

The violent, hired, gangster thugs of the anti-PAD are at it again...

Anti-PAD Group Disrupts PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy in Kalasin province dispersed its rally last night after being disrupted by the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD.

Anti-PAD protestors threw bottles and stones into the PAD's rally, injuring many PAD members, and turned on an amplifier to disturb them.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited July 12, 200818 yr by sriracha john

The violent, hired, gangster thugs of the anti-PAD are at it again...

Anti-PAD Group Disrupts PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy in Kalasin province dispersed its rally last night after being disrupted by the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD.

Anti-PAD protestors threw bottles and stones into the PAD's rally, injuring many PAD members, and turned on an amplifier to disturb them.

- Thailand Outlook

Why aren't more national media giving this incident attention I wonder, especially if it was "many PAD members" injured. Seems worthy of getting quite a bit of news why a peaceful demonstration cannot be held in Isaan without violent thugs throwing bottles and stones at demonstrators. Wonder who paid them for their brutality? Investigative journalists NB.

Agree with you Plachon, what journalists and papers are allowing these stories through

Headlines: PAD pays people to be stupid and abusive in Issan! There, is that better!

The violent, hired, gangster thugs of the anti-PAD are at it again...

Anti-PAD Group Disrupts PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy in Kalasin province dispersed its rally last night after being disrupted by the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD.

Anti-PAD protestors threw bottles and stones into the PAD's rally, injuring many PAD members, and turned on an amplifier to disturb them.

- Thailand Outlook

Why aren't more national media giving this incident attention I wonder, especially if it was "many PAD members" injured. Seems worthy of getting quite a bit of news why a peaceful demonstration cannot be held in Isaan without violent thugs throwing bottles and stones at demonstrators. Wonder who paid them for their brutality? Investigative journalists NB.

I would like to ask you if you were there? It is a bit biased for you to say that PAD was doing a peaceful demonstration. Also I think you should respect the locals views. Why do you think they are angry at PAD???. You call them thugs, but its their local area and they have all the rights as PAD to demonstrate against them if they wish. You shouldnt always believe what the Nation or BKK post tell you. They are not independant papers so you should have a open mind about what you read. Their are two sides to everything. It just shows how local residents are fed up they are with PADs tactics of disruption.

Edited July 14, 200818 yr by Los78

Whilst any violence by any side is wrong...

It wasn't even The Nation or the BKK Post that reported the incident, but Thailand Outlook.

Hang on, would that be the Thailand Outlook Channel owned by Sondhi L who also happens to be the PAD ringleader? Hmm...no chance of editorial bias on that one then...

The violent, hired, gangster thugs of the anti-PAD are at it again...

Anti-PAD Group Disrupts PAD

The People's Alliance for Democracy in Kalasin province dispersed its rally last night after being disrupted by the National United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship, or UDD.

Anti-PAD protestors threw bottles and stones into the PAD's rally, injuring many PAD members, and turned on an amplifier to disturb them.

- Thailand Outlook

Why aren't more national media giving this incident attention I wonder, especially if it was "many PAD members" injured. Seems worthy of getting quite a bit of news why a peaceful demonstration cannot be held in Isaan without violent thugs throwing bottles and stones at demonstrators. Wonder who paid them for their brutality? Investigative journalists NB.

I would like to ask you if you were there? It is a bit biased for you to say that PAD was doing a peaceful demonstration.

People are basing that on a news report. Which is to say that it's at least something that the writer and photographer were at least there at the demonstration (presuming you weren't the same as plachon and, of course, myself). Unless you're proffering that the writer and photographer were not there, it's the best any of us have. Sure it's from a Manager news source, but if they hadn't been peacefully assembling, don't you think the media propaganda steam roller that the government controls would have ensured it got splashed on every outlet they have? History also plays a role in the believability and credibility departments in that historically, PAD has been peaceful and DUDD/DADD/UDD/ETC. has been not.

Also I think you should respect the locals views. Why do you think they are angry at PAD???. You call them thugs, but its their local area

We don't know if the attackers were local. Many times these hired goons have been shown to be from elsewhere. Additionally, we don't know that the PAD rally-goers were NOT locals. PAD has established units of their organization in many local areas throughout Thailand. They are staffed and coordinated by locals in that area.

and they have all the rights as PAD to demonstrate against them if they wish.

They absolutely have the same rights to demonstrate... but these rights extend only to the verbal line. They have no "right" to rocks and bottles. It's this basic difference between verbal protest and physical protest... oral dissertation and heathen brutality that they continually struggle with. It is that sort of fundamental starting point that, with their violent thought processes, that ends up justifiably leading to labels such as thugs and goons.

You shouldnt always believe what the Nation or BKK post tell you.

or Thailand Outlook (such is the case with this report) or the New York Times, the BBC, or anyone.... it should all be weighed, but it goes back to the above... it's the best report we've had with it. Unless your saying the whole event never occurred or that the story and photograph are forgeries, it's what we know to this point.

They are not independant papers so you should have a open mind about what you read. Their are two sides to everything.

and often more, but no news source is truly independent...not even the highest regard ones.

It just shows how local residents are fed up they are with PADs tactics of disruption.

Again, when they can voice those opinions WITHOUT rocks, chairs, bottles, clubs, etc. etc. that they have historically "voiced" their opinions with, then Thailand can move out of stone age.

When peaceful civil disobedience and verbal protests can be accepted by all sides without resorting to caveman reactions, it will be a good day, indeed.

Edited July 14, 200818 yr by sriracha john

Whilst any violence by any side is wrong...

It wasn't even The Nation or the BKK Post that reported the incident, but Thailand Outlook.

Hang on, would that be the Thailand Outlook Channel owned by Sondhi L who also happens to be the PAD ringleader? Hmm...no chance of editorial bias on that one then...

Yes, well that explains the biased coverage of the event including pictures and the reporting. It was all producted by the PAD (Sondhi's media). Well that explains everything.

sriracha john. Yes, I agree that you should read more newspaper then the Sondhi media group and Bkk post etc... so you get a more balanced picture on the issues and why people are upset with PAD.

sriracha john. Yes, I agree that you should read more newspaper then the Sondhi media group and Bkk post etc... so you get a more balanced picture on the issues and why people are upset with PAD.

I absolutely do read more as my news quotes attest to. I do appreciate your silent agreement of all the points raised in my previous reply to your post. I'm happy to have enlightened you.

Edited July 14, 200818 yr by sriracha john

I saw pictures in Daily Xpress, published by Nation.

Nation and Bangkok Post ARE independent. Nation is a listed company, after all.

They were not setup by political parties like PPPTV and are not taking orders from the government like TV stations.

Most of Thai language papers are also independent.

You can call them biased instead but that's a different thing. At this point it appears they are all biased in the same direction, and that's the problem of the government rather than the media.

>>>

As soon as PAD reduced pressure, Samak started talking about rewriting the constitution. PAD appears to be the only entity that has influence over him. He won't listen to the media, civil society, academics, and even his coalition partners. For being a people's democartic representative he shows very little concern for anyone's opinion.

Another attempt at charter amendment is a complete lunacy, the country has enough problems as it is.

As soon as PAD reduced pressure, Samak started talking about rewriting the constitution. PAD appears to be the only entity that has influence over him.

PAD really didn't have much choice. Dwindling public support and the courts ruling that they were a disruptive force against the public interest. And to top it off their bizarre proposal that the Thai government should be largely appointed rather than democratically elected. PAD has really shown its true colours recently as a force against democracy and its supporters are deserting it in droves as a result. Their anti-Thaksin mantra is wearing a little thin now that the courts are dealing with it and the PADS true agendas are becoming apparent.

There is a nice interview with Supinya (free speech activist) in today's Nation where she tears into the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and its right-wing mouthpiece ASTV. Have a look!

I saw pictures in Daily Xpress, published by Nation.

Nation and Bangkok Post ARE independent. Nation is a listed company, after all.

They were not setup by political parties like PPPTV and are not taking orders from the government like TV stations.

Most of Thai language papers are also independent.

You can call them biased instead but that's a different thing. At this point it appears they are all biased in the same direction, and that's the problem of the government rather than the media.

>>>

As soon as PAD reduced pressure, Samak started talking about rewriting the constitution. PAD appears to be the only entity that has influence over him. He won't listen to the media, civil society, academics, and even his coalition partners. For being a people's democartic representative he shows very little concern for anyone's opinion.

Another attempt at charter amendment is a complete lunacy, the country has enough problems as it is.

Shawn Crispin has an interesting piece out about the mishandling of the economic issues that could bring the government down. The charter ammendment call is no doubt a rallying call for the PPP but whether there will really be a chance to even discuss it as the economic woes worsen especially if no action is taken, and it may be too late already. Put that in with the court cases pending, nationalism and all the rest and while you have an administration that is still seemingly functional it may soon be one that will not be missed if things go against it.

I saw pictures in Daily Xpress, published by Nation.

Nation and Bangkok Post ARE independent. Nation is a listed company, after all.

They were not setup by political parties like PPPTV and are not taking orders from the government like TV stations.

Most of Thai language papers are also independent.

You can call them biased instead but that's a different thing. At this point it appears they are all biased in the same direction, and that's the problem of the government rather than the media.

>>>

As soon as PAD reduced pressure, Samak started talking about rewriting the constitution. PAD appears to be the only entity that has influence over him. He won't listen to the media, civil society, academics, and even his coalition partners. For being a people's democartic representative he shows very little concern for anyone's opinion.

Another attempt at charter amendment is a complete lunacy, the country has enough problems as it is.

Shawn Crispin has an interesting piece out about the mishandling of the economic issues that could bring the government down. The charter ammendment call is no doubt a rallying call for the PPP but whether there will really be a chance to even discuss it as the economic woes worsen especially if no action is taken, and it may be too late already. Put that in with the court cases pending, nationalism and all the rest and while you have an administration that is still seemingly functional it may soon be one that will not be missed if things go against it.

Hammered, from past postings I know you know, but for others interested in politics in Thailand a great blog with links to Crispin and so many others is Bangkok Pundit:

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

There is a nice interview with Supinya (free speech activist) in today's Nation where she tears into the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and its right-wing mouthpiece ASTV. Have a look!

But you know that some of the PAD leader have a communist background?

When you are there, it is full with communists "in the spirit of Che" etc. but also right wings, it seems to attract both sides, definitly not only right wing.

As soon as PAD reduced pressure, Samak started talking about rewriting the constitution. PAD appears to be the only entity that has influence over him.

PAD really didn't have much choice. Dwindling public support and the courts ruling that they were a disruptive force against the public interest. And to top it off their bizarre proposal that the Thai government should be largely appointed rather than democratically elected. PAD has really shown its true colours recently as a force against democracy and its supporters are deserting it in droves as a result. Their anti-Thaksin mantra is wearing a little thin now that the courts are dealing with it and the PADS true agendas are becoming apparent.

Where do you see dwindling public support?

I actually got told that there are more people now (but thats of course also a biased information). What signs of reduced support do you see?

There is a nice interview with Supinya (free speech activist) in today's Nation where she tears into the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and its right-wing mouthpiece ASTV. Have a look!

But you know that some of the PAD leader have a communist background?

When you are there, it is full with communists "in the spirit of Che" etc. but also right wings, it seems to attract both sides, definitly not only right wing.

Yes, many forms of detritus in that PAD alright!

There is a nice interview with Supinya (free speech activist) in today's Nation where she tears into the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and its right-wing mouthpiece ASTV. Have a look!

But you know that some of the PAD leader have a communist background?

When you are there, it is full with communists "in the spirit of Che" etc. but also right wings, it seems to attract both sides, definitly not only right wing.

Yes, many forms of detritus in that PAD alright!

Yes so for sure not right wing.....

Actually with increasing food prices communism will come, maybe not in Thailand but worldwide there will be some countries

There is a nice interview with Supinya (free speech activist) in today's Nation where she tears into the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and its right-wing mouthpiece ASTV. Have a look!

But you know that some of the PAD leader have a communist background?

When you are there, it is full with communists "in the spirit of Che" etc. but also right wings, it seems to attract both sides, definitly not only right wing.

Having said the above, you should know that the PPP's current Finance Minister also has been described as a former communist guerrilla. A harsh description even for him, but in print nonetheless.

There is a nice interview with Supinya (free speech activist) in today's Nation where she tears into the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and its right-wing mouthpiece ASTV. Have a look!

But you know that some of the PAD leader have a communist background?

When you are there, it is full with communists "in the spirit of Che" etc. but also right wings, it seems to attract both sides, definitly not only right wing.

Yes, many forms of detritus in that PAD alright!

Phew... good to know you'll now be changing your mantra of right-wing, right wing, right wing... look forward to your new rendition.

As soon as the new charter drive starts taking shape, PAD will see its support growing again.

The same was with Samak's threat of breakdown - government creates an agenda for protesters itself.

I don't think he seriously wants to try his luck again, he probably spoke out of desperation, there's so much opposition to unilateral "save you ass" amendments even Samak must have noticed it.

As soon as the new charter drive starts taking shape, PAD will see its support growing again.

The same was with Samak's threat of breakdown - government creates an agenda for protesters itself.

I don't think he seriously wants to try his luck again, he probably spoke out of desperation, there's so much opposition to unilateral "save you ass" amendments even Samak must have noticed it.

And of course the constitutional ammendment to save the government even if voted through will have to go before the constituional court to see if it works retroactively on the cases already brought.

It is a nice but of confrontation though. I see Samak is already trying to use the old TRT tactic of making sure the Dems end up before diso court too even thought the case hasnt come to conclusion yet. Oh yes all the old classics in the great game as the government does nothing to run the country during the economic crisis except I read today lean on the Bank of Thailand so that they dont increase interest rates which apparently are now at least 1.25% lower than they should be if anyone wants to signal that the helm is steady. Oh yes true fun and everyone can suffer just so those who really count can have their little power struggle and carve up the cake.

Well I guess the PAD wont be wanting for a few demonstrators. Now what is that story about Temmasak and the new parliament. That sounds a nice juicy deal that doesnt and correct me if I am wrong involve a nice juicy land deal for a froeign company that definitely wasnt linked to the ex-PMs sale of any of his mom and pop operations. Still could be worse, they could be a Cambodian company although I guess Singapore wont go down too well. Now what was all that old analysis about the Shin deal not being that profitable for Temmasak but the chance of future land deals with the government onside was the clincher. Oh well they had to wait the coup out but who would have known it the PPP's own parliament gets to be the first bit of long overdue payback for Singapore's finest. Oh yes how interesting to watch the carving up of the pie and to foreigners too. Oh my God better not let the plebs know they dont like that kind of thing. Sure the old PAD aint going to get much support for this little lot. Now what did happen to all that TRT internal discipline and marketing and PR brilliance the PPP have turned it into a complete disaster zone. hey guess they dont care coz they won the election and they is gonna get rid of them check and balance thingies that are nothing to do with democracy. Oh so much fun for us and so much tragedy for many.