Security Tightens At Government House To Block Anti-govt Protesters

[Nampeung]

Disagree completely. Thailand is at least showing (so far) that it allows a certain amount of freedom of speech and the right to protest peacefully. This is a valuable lesson in a changing regime

[Tony Clifton]

PAD looks like it has run out of puff. They are just preaching to the converted now.

After the failure of the no confidence debate to entice the coalition partners to jump ship and swap sides PAD has little to fuel public anger with.

All they can do now is just keep repeating the same tired old arguments that are already being dealt with by the courts.

Unless something big and new goes down that will arouse public interest the PAD risk being seen as little more than a public nuisance by the general public.

Do not underestimate Thaksin/PPP 's expertise at creating new controversies on a weekly basis, exactly what PAD feeds on.

They are a threat to this joke of a government, not a nuisance. PAD is stronger than ever and is nowhere near out of breath, don't get fooled by the abscence of a huge crowd come Monday mornings when people go back to work, they're back in the evening.

And don't underestimate what happens when they call for a "D-Day". that temple issues is good enough for a while. There might be worse things but that case is simple to understand.

"that temple issues is good enough for a while"

Exactly. Its a minor issue that wouldn't normally result in much more than some debate among academics and politicians. But PAD is beating it up into a nationalistic fervor for their own interests. PAD is clinging on to any issue they can find in order to justify their protest against the government and their own existence. PAD really doesn't have much credibility with anyone outside their own supporters right now. They are nothing more than a rebellion looking for a cause. If they were smart they would focus their energies and mount protests only at times when matters of critical public interest are current. Things like the no confidence debate. Carrying on a protest without a critical issue in the hope the government will just go away is pretty dumb and is costing PAD what ever credibility they ever had with the multitudes. PAD is playing Samaks game. All PAD is doing now is to show their true agenda of inciting civil unrest and another military coup in the hope of installing the government of their choice.

A good analysis of everything. PAD has lost all credibility in my opinion.

Lost as much credibility as TRT/PPP and the present cabinet? I don't think so. I can't see how you can lose credibility b exposing true facts, lies and scams that are ruining and dividing the country even further.

They are doing carnivals now to keep their die hard supporters at the protests.

Better a carnival outside parliament than circus clowns inside the very same building.

They are fast become a band of jokers and just causeing their smelly waste and bad language to disturbe the nearby schools.

Meanwhile the PM himself broadcasts himself his foul language on TV every Sunday for all school children to hear across the country.

Time to ship out PAD and go home.

Time for this government to collapse on itself.

[h90]

Oh it was nice to read the newspapers today and not too see it filled with politics or the PAD jokers. It was a nice change and refreshing to read news for once. It really shows that a lot of people are getting sick, tired and bored of these PAD supporters with nothing to do but scrapping the bottom of the barrel for ammunition to bring down the government. They have blamed the governemnt for almost everything under the sun, but are now running out of ideas. If PAD want to take themselves seriously and speak for Thai people why dont they form a party and contest the governement at the ballot box not on the street like a bunch of wingers with no visions or ideas for the future. Maybe they should go back to work and start contributing to the country instead of damaging it. It appears even that the opposition has acknowledged that the government will stay on and should be let to govern now which is all good since last weeks healthy debate is all a part of democracy.

But filling the pockets with corruption and spending that money for buying votes has nothing to do with democracy, therefor forming a party won't help. There is already a party which is not corrupt.

Really? How can you be so sure that there is a party that is not currupt. (Democrats) Do you watch personally over every minister??. If you accuss some party of so much curruption it more then likely that others are also in the curruption game to some degree or another. This is Asia and curruption is at some level or another everywhere no matter how much you think they are not involved. You are just blind to the reality of this place.

HM the King mentioned Chuan (former Democrat Premier) in one of his speaks as someone who was never corrupt, that would be enough for me to believe (if I recall it was last year).

But all educated Thais I know are telling that there was never before such a corrupt than under Thaksin.

[Tony Clifton]

Industrial scale corruption that is.

[plachon]

I for one don't have ASTV and so am glad to learn what it's latest slant on matters is.

Hi Plachon, everything ok?

Try this one: http://www.manager.co.th/Home/news1/astv120k.html

or if you don't understand Thai, check out TOC:

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

and read the PAD Updates.

Hope either or is ok at yours (should be).

Cheerio

NMT

Yeah, everything's fine NMT. Thanks for the links, esp the TOC. Little time to check though, so keep the news coming through this thread of what's going on down on the ground and the talk on the soi.

[Nampeung]

Well Plachon and others, I have tried to discuss what is going on but other people on this thread want to debate what they think is the right thing to discuss politically. Right now two women on ASTV are dicussing the situation and what the possibilities are

[ando]

Well Plachon and others, I have tried to discuss what is going on but other people on this thread want to debate what they think is the right thing to discuss politically. Right now two women on ASTV are dicussing the situation and what the possibilities are

dam_n those "other people" being so rude as to interrupt your private conversation.

As far as possibilities go, the best one for PAD at the moment would be to pack up and go home.

[h90]

Industrial scale corruption that is.

there was an interesting birthday speech of HM the King a few years ago about how Thailand developed, got modern and professional, also the corruption got modern and professional.

I don't know if there is a webpage which collects all HM the Kings speeches?

[hammered]

Well Plachon and others, I have tried to discuss what is going on but other people on this thread want to debate what they think is the right thing to discuss politically. Right now two women on ASTV are dicussing the situation and what the possibilities are

dam_n those "other people" being so rude as to interrupt your private conversation.

As far as possibilities go, the best one for PAD at the moment would be to pack up and go home.

I tend to agree with that for now. However it may not happen as another perspective says they serve a useful purpose for more shadowy and hidden anti-Thaksin elements by staying around. Every time a court finds against the PAD who are the vocal and public opposition, but the not the real power players, it makes it harder to accuse courts of poltical bias when/if they start finding Thaksin/PPP/111 guilty of things. Of course the courts may be totally neutral too although it is hard to find people on either side who actually think this.

It is hard to know exactly what games are being played now with even seasoned Thai analysts who have writen on Thai politcs for years divided on the basic assumption of how to analyse the current immediate situation - Samak as largely impotent nominee or Samak as in a tacit alliance with the bureacracy, and of course we have to also put this then into a historical analysis. Complicated.

[Plus]

Looking at the bigger picture - PAD was a catalyst behind quite a few important developments. They might not have achieved their latest goal (removing Samak) yet, but they have forced the government to abandon/postpone constitution amendment, Jakrapob was removed, Democrats got a chance to expose PPP's failings to the general public, from Preah Vihear to economy. PAD gave a chance to police to show restraint and understanding and refuse to use force agaisnt peacefule demonstrators as Samak wanted.

PAD is the only reason for the government to behave in a more or less democratic manner, and in that sense their mission is far from over.

[plachon]

Plachon I do hope we can continue dialogue as I find a lot of the other posters here very negative and without flexibility

No offence Nampeung, I'm a bit busy to continue dialogue I'm afraid, but am happy to chip in the odd comment here and there as the mood takes me. But as I mentioned earlier, maybe best not to paint "other posters" with the same broad tar brush or you'll be in danger of marginalising yourself as nobody knows who you are referring to specifically with such comments. My best advice is if "they" bother you, then just ignore them or provide a wiser argument to "their" negativity and inflexibility. But keep in mind that diversity in thought and opinion keeps the world going round and as long as debates are conducted in a civil manner (as PAD is doing), then there is no harm in having alternative views expressed (even if you don't agree with them). Just my satang's worth.

[ando]

PAD is the only reason for the government to behave in a more or less democratic manner, and in that sense their mission is far from over.

Gee, thats a pretty tame statement.

I thought the aim of PAD was to overthrow the elected government by inciting civil unrest and drawing the military into another coup?

Now PAD is the reason why the government is operating in a democratic manner.

I have to wonder why PAD doesn't form a political party and take their issues up in Parliament. Probably because PAD would be hard pressed to gain even one member representing them in the democratic process. PAD has virtually no support in the broader electoral process. That's why they stay out of the democratic process and instead try to incite a military coup to achieve their political ends.

[Nampeung]

I've got quite a good stream from ASTV this morning in UK. The stage is taken with a man and woman talking about how the PAD have 'opened' Phra Ram 5 Road and Pitsanolok Road in order to allow school and college students to get to their places of learning. They have agreed to close the stage between school hours.

It looks like there are far fewer protesters at the moment, I guess they will come back in the evening.

[ando]

I've got quite a good stream from ASTV this morning in UK. The stage is taken with a man and woman talking about how the PAD have 'opened' Phra Ram 5 Road and Pitsanolok Road in order to allow school and college students to get to their places of learning. They have agreed to close the stage between school hours.

It looks like there are far fewer protesters at the moment, I guess they will come back in the evening.

Very considerate of them to "allow" the kiddies to go to school.

[sriracha john]

PAD is the only reason for the government to behave in a more or less democratic manner, and in that sense their mission is far from over.

Indeed, that mission continues. Keeping the government honest until it does a better job explaining the whole situation on the agreement and how the Thaksin connection enters into it....

Government suspends joint communique on Preah Vihear

The Cabinet on Tuesday decided to suspend joint communique on the Preah Vihear temple, which was signed by Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama, according to Deputy PM Somchai Wongsawat. The decision followed the Administrative Court's order, which handed down a temporary injunction against the Cabinet resolution to endorse the joint communique last month. The case was filed by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).

Continues here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=128658

Edited July 1, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Protesters in Krabi prompt Chalerm to return to capital

Interior Minister Chalerm Yubamrung decided Wednesday to cancel all his work schedules planned in the South for Wednesday and Thursday after a group of People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) supporters staged a protest against him.

About 100 protesters gathered in front of Maritime Park and Spa Hotel in Krabi province since Tuesday night to demand that he be removed from the Cabinet. Chalerm, who was scheduled to meet government officials in Krabi, Phangnga and Phuket, decided to

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=128665

[younghusband]

Looking at the bigger picture - PAD was a catalyst behind quite a few important developments. They might not have achieved their latest goal (removing Samak) yet, but they have forced the government to abandon/postpone constitution amendment, Jakrapob was removed, Democrats got a chance to expose PPP's failings to the general public, from Preah Vihear to economy. PAD gave a chance to police to show restraint and understanding and refuse to use force agaisnt peacefule demonstrators as Samak wanted.

PAD is the only reason for the government to behave in a more or less democratic manner, and in that sense their mission is far from over.

But the PAD, and presumably their paymasters together with the hidden forces that egg them on, have profoundly undemocratic credentials.You are always sounding off about the downside of democracy, and I have no doubt that most of the PAD mob share your quasi feudal views.The PAD leadership and some of its followers apparently want to see parliament dominated by appointed representatives with only a minority elected by the Thai people.Anyway it looks as the current PAD campaign has failed miserably with numbers down to a few thousand, and the people of Bangkok fed up with the whole miserable show.I can see why you are trying to put a favourable spin on events given the fearsome but as it turned out completely off the wall predictions you and your somewhat less cerebral fellow travellers were making just very recently.Most people are bored stiff of the creepy PAD leadership, the baseball wielding PAD thugs, the blaring loudspeakers and the incoherent agenda.Certainly this government needs criticism and active opposition.No reason why PAD types can't demonstrate but the main responsibility lies with elected representatives, not thuggish mobs holding the capital to ransome and issuing ultimatums to elected governments.Your rationalisation of PAD democratic credentials is just eyewash I'm afraid, but as previously noted it must all be rather embarsassing for folks of your persuasion.

[Flatouthruthefog]

TNN now showing what just looks like police mingling with demonstrators.

One good thing is that when their lines are breached the police just seem to keep their discipline.

I think you have a good percentage of policemen who like the PAD. Just one thing Chalerms son who killed a policeman and got reinstalled in the army....

Nice one, H......! Sorry, only just noticed this!

Of course we can't SAY that one of the Chalerm 'chubbies' shot a much decorated and admired policeman on duty, a much loved family man, in a night club in cold blood, just like all the witnesses can't say that! TIT.

But I think we CAN congratulate the PAD on its master stroke of engineering Samak into the PM job. What better figure to drive all right thinking people - within and without Thailand - right into the other camp? Just brilliant!

[Plus]

I'm sorry, YH, but there's so much rubbish in your post that I can't be bothered to reply in detail.

Re. elected vs selected MPs - I wrote about it somewhere else, don't want to repeat myself. One thing - it's not on the official PAD agenda, storm in a teacup.

Re. low numbers - it's kind of quiet on political front. Censure debate stole the show, and it served its purpose - to rob PAD of ammunition. Never mind, something will come up soon, with PPP it's never dull for too long. For example, if there's no movement on Noppadon and Mingkwan, PAD will have a reason to escalate protests again.

Re. "main responsibility lies with elected representatives" - obviously it doesn't work, so it's upto PAD now. Who else? When Democrats requested for the debate, PPP just told them to fuc_k off.

[h90]

Looking at the bigger picture - PAD was a catalyst behind quite a few important developments. They might not have achieved their latest goal (removing Samak) yet, but they have forced the government to abandon/postpone constitution amendment, Jakrapob was removed, Democrats got a chance to expose PPP's failings to the general public, from Preah Vihear to economy. PAD gave a chance to police to show restraint and understanding and refuse to use force agaisnt peacefule demonstrators as Samak wanted.

PAD is the only reason for the government to behave in a more or less democratic manner, and in that sense their mission is far from over.

But the PAD, and presumably their paymasters together with the hidden forces that egg them on, have profoundly undemocratic credentials.You are always sounding off about the downside of democracy, and I have no doubt that most of the PAD mob share your quasi feudal views.The PAD leadership and some of its followers apparently want to see parliament dominated by appointed representatives with only a minority elected by the Thai people.Anyway it looks as the current PAD campaign has failed miserably with numbers down to a few thousand, and the people of Bangkok fed up with the whole miserable show.I can see why you are trying to put a favourable spin on events given the fearsome but as it turned out completely off the wall predictions you and your somewhat less cerebral fellow travellers were making just very recently.Most people are bored stiff of the creepy PAD leadership, the baseball wielding PAD thugs, the blaring loudspeakers and the incoherent agenda.Certainly this government needs criticism and active opposition.No reason why PAD types can't demonstrate but the main responsibility lies with elected representatives, not thuggish mobs holding the capital to ransome and issuing ultimatums to elected governments.Your rationalisation of PAD democratic credentials is just eyewash I'm afraid, but as previously noted it must all be rather embarsassing for folks of your persuasion.

who is paying who? could you explain that a little bit?

Who pays?

who received something?

[Los78]

But the PAD, and presumably their paymasters together with the hidden forces that egg them on, have profoundly undemocratic credentials.You are always sounding off about the downside of democracy, and I have no doubt that most of the PAD mob share your quasi feudal views.The PAD leadership and some of its followers apparently want to see parliament dominated by appointed representatives with only a minority elected by the Thai people.Anyway it looks as the current PAD campaign has failed miserably with numbers down to a few thousand, and the people of Bangkok fed up with the whole miserable show.I can see why you are trying to put a favourable spin on events given the fearsome but as it turned out completely off the wall predictions you and your somewhat less cerebral fellow travellers were making just very recently.Most people are bored stiff of the creepy PAD leadership, the baseball wielding PAD thugs, the blaring loudspeakers and the incoherent agenda.Certainly this government needs criticism and active opposition.No reason why PAD types can't demonstrate but the main responsibility lies with elected representatives, not thuggish mobs holding the capital to ransome and issuing ultimatums to elected governments.Your rationalisation of PAD democratic credentials is just eyewash I'm afraid, but as previously noted it must all be rather embarsassing for folks of your persuasion.

Good point. PAD are fast becoming yesterday’s news. It’s good to see that school children can get home from their schools at least now. PAD (People Against Democracy) are just a boring bunch of wingers trying their hardest to keep the division amongst the people.

[Plus]

PAD (People Against Democracy) are just a boring bunch of wingers trying their hardest to keep the division amongst the people.

Hard to see any logic in that, especially when the opposing camp is protesting strictly against PAD and not the issues PAD is raising.

At the recent Udon counter protest one of the anti-PAD members boasted on a phone in radio program that he was bringing two guns to the rally because he wouldn't be caught if a couple bullets fly into PAD's direction.

Who is being divisive here? Certainly not PAD.

[A_Traveller]

Two items from The Nation:-

PAD fails to enforce injunction in full: Panu

The street protests led by the People's Alliance for Democracy continue to block traffic in spite of the Civil Court's order to open roads, a senior police officer said on Thursday.

"The PAD must enforce the injunction to open roads 24 hours," Metropolitan Police deputy commissioner Maj General Panu Koedlapphol said.

Although the PAD has allowed vehicles to pass through the protest site starting from 7.30 am, its protest tents and a main stage on Chamaimaruchet Bridge still block traffic and keep parts of the roads impassable, Panu said.

Police order protesters to move within 2 hours

Police order protesters to move the rally and the stage from the rally site within two hours following the Civil Court's order.

The police ordered at 10.45am.

However People Alliance for Democracy's co-leader Chamlong Srimuang refused and told the protesters to remain calm but do not let the police to disperse them.

Regards

PS Quotes edited for spelling & typo

Edited July 3, 2008 by A_Traveller

[sriracha john]

Pro-Thaksin groups prepare to confront their PAD opponents

Opponents of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) claim to have found a way to contain spreading anti-government movements in the northern and northeastern strongholds of the pro-Thaksin Shinawatra People Power Party (PPP).

They have endorsed a strategy used against a PAD rally in mid-town Udon Thani last Saturday. They call it the Udon Model.

More than 1,000 locals were mobilised to the rally site in only a few hours to oust local PAD leader Charoen Mookachornphan from the city. Earlier, Charoen had taunted local anti-PAD leaders by saying he was not afraid of their threat to expel him from Udon Thani if he did not stop holding mini-rallies against the government.

The anti-PAD group, calling itself "We Love Udon", can be labelled Thaksin supporters. They claim to have learned from the fall of Thaksin in September 2006 that pre-emptive strikes should be carried out to prevent any anti-government sentiment from gaining ground.

The PAD used Udon Thani as a major base from which to attack the Thaksin administration in the upper Northeast from early 2006 until that government's downfall.

Then, during the Surayud Chulanont government, key PAD member Chaiwat Sinsuwong led a rally in Udon Thani, appealing to the government to stop selling Thai sovereignty to Singapore, which was using Udon Thani Airport as a flight-training base. He alleged that Thaksin had allowed Singapore to benefit from Thai soil.

Now, the anti-PAD group in Udon Thani wants to ensure that history does not repeat itself and the pro-Thaksin PPP government to enjoy a smooth, untroubled term in office.

By rejecting the mainstream media that oppose Thaksin, its leaders have come up with a new political tool to boost their campaign against the PAD: local radio station FM 97.5, the programmes of which are also broadcast via www.weloveudon.net.

Last Saturday from early morning, two programme hosts urged listeners to leave home and gather at the rally in front of PAD-leader Charoen's gold shop and also at his house on Baan Huay Market Road. Some phone-in callers who wanted to join the rally but lived far away were told they would be provided transport in pickups.

The station is apparently free from watchdog agencies, so it was no surprise to hear one caller say - without realising she was on air - she was on her way to the rally with two pistols. If some bullets were directed at the PAD supporters, she said, no one would be arrested, because: "No one will know who did it." :D

Fortunately, no shooting was reported.

PAD supporters who went to Charoen's house for the rally found themselves outnumbered 10 to one by We Love Udon members, allegedly backed by a local politician who is a brother of a PPP Cabinet member. Charoen's house was closed, and he reportedly had left town.

The occasion nevertheless became a tense and noisy stand-off between supporters of both sides, separated by scores of police officers. There were moments of hostility as the rally lasted through the night. Eventually, the demonstrators drifted away at about midday on Sunday after Charoen showed no signs of returning.

Pro-Thaksin groups across upper Thailand are hailing the events in Udon Thani as a major defeat for the PAD's new round of rallies against the pro-Thaksin government. They have vowed to apply the Udon Model whenever there's a need to "control" the PAD's mini-rallies in provinces like Chiang Mai and Nakhon Ratchasima.

Although the strategy will not work in the southern strongholds of the Democrat Party, they say they want to ensure that the PAD is paralysed in the PPP strongholds of the North, Northeast and Central regions.

It is now becoming a dangerous game of "an eye for an eye."

- The Nation

Edited July 3, 2008 by sriracha john

[Nampeung]

Sounds like B***** Zimbabwe

[younghusband]

I'm sorry, YH, but there's so much rubbish in your post that I can't be bothered to reply in detail.

Re. elected vs selected MPs - I wrote about it somewhere else, don't want to repeat myself. One thing - it's not on the official PAD agenda, storm in a teacup.

Re. low numbers - it's kind of quiet on political front. Censure debate stole the show, and it served its purpose - to rob PAD of ammunition. Never mind, something will come up soon, with PPP it's never dull for too long. For example, if there's no movement on Noppadon and Mingkwan, PAD will have a reason to escalate protests again.

Re. "main responsibility lies with elected representatives" - obviously it doesn't work, so it's upto PAD now. Who else? When Democrats requested for the debate, PPP just told them to fuc_k off.

Don't worry.I know when I hit a nerve with you the abuse comes flying.It's quite apparent from your posts that you have a deep distrust of democracy.It's an intellectually respectable point of view but don't make the ludicrous argument that all PAD's efforts have been to bolster democracy in Thailand.On the elected/selected (by whom incidentally?), you are being disingenuous:it's quite clear where PAD stands on this.

[h90]

I'm sorry, YH, but there's so much rubbish in your post that I can't be bothered to reply in detail.

Re. elected vs selected MPs - I wrote about it somewhere else, don't want to repeat myself. One thing - it's not on the official PAD agenda, storm in a teacup.

Re. low numbers - it's kind of quiet on political front. Censure debate stole the show, and it served its purpose - to rob PAD of ammunition. Never mind, something will come up soon, with PPP it's never dull for too long. For example, if there's no movement on Noppadon and Mingkwan, PAD will have a reason to escalate protests again.

Re. "main responsibility lies with elected representatives" - obviously it doesn't work, so it's upto PAD now. Who else? When Democrats requested for the debate, PPP just told them to fuc_k off.

Don't worry.I know when I hit a nerve with you the abuse comes flying.It's quite apparent from your posts that you have a deep distrust of democracy.It's an intellectually respectable point of view but don't make the ludicrous argument that all PAD's efforts have been to bolster democracy in Thailand.On the elected/selected (by whom incidentally?), you are being disingenuous:it's quite clear where PAD stands on this.

[Meerkat]

Regarding the PAD's ideas of "democracy" that I raised earlier, The Nation has now picked up on it, just in case anybody still doubts its veracity.

2Bangkok.com also translates an op-ed piece (scroll down to the 30th June) from Matichon stating, "PAD leader Sonthi Limthongkul recently made a very interesting comment. He said that the PAD not only wanted to oust the government, but also wished to assume its powers." I'd love to find something elsewhere to verify/dismiss this comment; I'll take it with a pinch of salt for now.

[h90]

Regarding the PAD's ideas of "democracy" that I raised earlier, The Nation has now picked up on it, just in case anybody still doubts its veracity.

2Bangkok.com also translates an op-ed piece (scroll down to the 30th June) from Matichon stating, "PAD leader Sonthi Limthongkul recently made a very interesting comment. He said that the PAD not only wanted to oust the government, but also wished to assume its powers." I'd love to find something elsewhere to verify/dismiss this comment; I'll take it with a pinch of salt for now.

thats not much more than a rhetoric sentence. Of course "The People" should take power instead of some corrupt nominees.

But at no means it is meant as: Sondi gets Dictator, Chamlong interior minister etc..

Since years he tells again and again that he don't want to get any power in government or found a party.

Of course there was a lot discussion what form of government is the best one.

but this sentence means nothing.

And even if, it couldn't be worse than the current government.

[younghusband]

Regarding the PAD's ideas of "democracy" that I raised earlier, The Nation has now picked up on it, just in case anybody still doubts its veracity.

2Bangkok.com also translates an op-ed piece (scroll down to the 30th June) from Matichon stating, "PAD leader Sonthi Limthongkul recently made a very interesting comment. He said that the PAD not only wanted to oust the government, but also wished to assume its powers." I'd love to find something elsewhere to verify/dismiss this comment; I'll take it with a pinch of salt for now.

thats not much more than a rhetoric sentence. Of course "The People" should take power instead of some corrupt nominees.

But at no means it is meant as: Sondi gets Dictator, Chamlong interior minister etc..

Since years he tells again and again that he don't want to get any power in government or found a party.

Of course there was a lot discussion what form of government is the best one.

but this sentence means nothing.

And even if, it couldn't be worse than the current government.

If this intellectually slovenly garbage is representative of PAD thinking, it can simply be dismissed.I expect there is a more thoughtful position and it would be interesting to hear this at some point.