Buying Land - Question

[lukamar]

I was reading some stuff on the net last night and came across this on a realty site ......

"A foreigner may legally purchase, together with his Thai wife, a house, land or property not exceeding 1 rai which is duly purchased as marital property-that is, the Parties are legally married and documented at the local Amphur (government office). The purchase must be jointly held and cannot be sold without the other partner's signature, nor can either force the other out of residence without due compensation. The foreigner's name will never be on the actual Title Deed, but a Memorandum is attached to it indicating his legal attachment to the owner."

I was under the impression that a foriegner could own land and you had to go the 30-30 lease or company route. My wife has a house, with mortgage in her name. but it was bought before we were married. Or are the talking about the wife owning the land and the husband owning the buildings? Any comments would be appreciated.

[lopburi3]

Think about it: "The foreigner's name will never be on the actual Title Deed".

Then check current requirement for a Thai wife married to a foreigner to buy property (the money must be declared as hers alone, and the foreign party sign his knowledge that he has no rights to it).

I am sure there are "real estate" (operations) saying all kinds of things but the test will come later (and they will not be around). Buyer beware takes on a whole new meaning here.

But if someone can prove this with a tested case would be more than willing to learn.

[Sumitr Man]

I was reading some stuff on the net last night and came across this on a realty site ......

"A foreigner may legally purchase, together with his Thai wife, a house, land or property not exceeding 1 rai which is duly purchased as marital property-that is, the Parties are legally married and documented at the local Amphur (government office).  The purchase must be jointly held and cannot be sold without the other partner's signature, nor can either force the other out of residence without due compensation. The foreigner's name will never be on the actual Title Deed, but a Memorandum is attached to it indicating his legal attachment to the owner."

I was under the impression that a foriegner could own land and you had to go the 30-30 lease or company route.   My wife has a house,  with mortgage in her name. but it was bought before we were married.  Or are the talking about the wife owning the land and the husband owning the buildings?  Any comments would be appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My initial reaction would be that this would come under the Bt. 40m exemption. Since 2002 (I think), foreigners have been permitted to purchase up to an aggregate of 1 rai of land provided that they bring into Thailand Bt. 40m.

Having said this, I have no idea why this piece makes mention to the marital requirement. So far as I was aware, there is no requirement to be married to a Thai, per se, but merely to be willing to bring in Bt. 40m over a set period of time, in predetermined minimum amounts, and that the aggregate not exceed 1 rai, i.e. you could, in theory, have 2 x 0.5 rai of property.

The obvious deterent to this programme, and the reason many have not taken advantage of it - the Bt. 40m!

SM

EDIT: Of course, a reality site would not have a vested interest in trying to persuade you that it was OK to purchase land in Thailand

[lukamar]

Thanks for the input. As we are in Canada for the next 2-3 years I thought that maybe i missed some Land law change. With the strong Canadian dollar at the moment we have thought about possibly buying another property.

[Bangkok Black Cat]

My girlfriend and I plan to marry next year after 4 years together. Wondering whether she will be able to buy property here in Thailand in her name when she returns from working for Emirates in 3 years. If we have to do it in her sister's name, so be it, but if we can buy in her name all the better. Anyone know any better?

[Sunbelt Asia]

My girlfriend and I plan to marry next year after 4 years together. Wondering whether she will be able to buy property here in Thailand in her name when she returns from working for Emirates in 3 years. If we have to do it in her sister's name, so be it, but if we can buy in her name all the better. Anyone know any better?

I like the odds of Russian roulette better. Please if you do that, have some type of safeguards such as a lease and morgage. Perhaps you can trust your wife or sister but sorry to say, we are human and we do die. How bout the other relatives, can you trust them?

There are a number of LEGAL ways that a foreigner may follow to own freehold land:

• Become a Thai resident/citizen

• Be the principal investor in a new export orientated Board of Investment (BOI) approved company [the current maximum size limit of freehold ownership rights is one Rai of land (1600 Sq.m.)

• Make an approved investment of over 40 Million Baht left for a minimum number of years [the current maximum size limit of freehold ownership rights is one Rai of land (1600 Sq.m.)

• Acquire the land through a Thai private limited company. This involves the incorporation of a private limited company of which the foreigner holds 39% of the shares. Thai law requires that 51% of the shares be held by Thai juristic persons, however, any company with more than 40% foreign interest that purchases land will be investigated by the Central Land Office in Bangkok (under Section 74 of the Land Code) to ensure that the company has not been organized in an attempt to circumvent the prohibition against foreign ownership of land. Hence the remaining 61% of the shares is held by Thai Nationals. The foreigner retains full control by being the sole director of the company with executive powers. Additional safeguards include more voting rights, personal loan agreements, the creation of a registered mortgage and/or long lease with pre-paid options to renew

• Acquire the land in the name of a nominee Thai national who then grants a registered 30 year lease (residential) to the foreigner in the foreigner’s own name with pre-paid option to renew for a further two periods of 30 years each. The foreigner may also be given the option to purchase the land should the law in respect of foreigner’s land ownership rights change.

• Usufruct Interest (Sidhi-kep-kin) - gives you temporary ownership rights to things on or arising from the land. In practice, a usufruct is limited to a 30-year maximum period; like leases, the agreement can be successively renewed. In contrast to a lease, a usufruct interest can be sold or transferred, although it expires upon the death of the holder of the usufruct and therefore cannot be inherited

* Nominee with Mortgage - you can use a Nominee to purchase the house/land and have a mortgage (registered with the appropriate land department office) on the property in your favors. It is important to note that only the owner of the land is entitled to mortgage the land; the lessee of land does not have the same privilege. The property cannot be sold until the mortgage lender signs the title documents declaring the mortgage cleared. This once again give 100% control over the property although not ownership. The buyer may remove the nominee should any problems arise and transfer in a new nominee at any time. One problem is however if the value of the land is greater than the loan, the person who owes the loan, can pay the loan off and buy the land.

Under Thai law, the foreigner can own the structure (for example a house) erected on the land. Additional safeguards (if required) include personal loan agreements and/or the creation of a registered mortgage and an agency agreement. Certainty of possession of land and house is assured by being the owner of the house. If arranged as above then the house will be separate from the land, and will not be a component part under the Civil Law. Ownership of buildings can be confirmed and the lessor cannot seize the house upon expiration of the lease.

In practice, the method favored the most by foreigners is to acquire land through a Thai private limited company, and this is the way we recommend for our clients most frequently. The additional advantages are that it establishes a business presence in Thailand and it may be the employer/sponsor in the foreigner’s application for a non-immigrant visa and/or work permit.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[RDN]

Thanks for the input.  As we are in Canada for the next 2-3 years I thought that maybe i missed some Land law change.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you would hear the cheer, all the way to Canada, if such a change occurred. And there would be a rush of planes to Thailand from Europe, Australia, Japan.....

[Sumitr Man]

My girlfriend and I plan to marry next year after 4 years together. Wondering whether she will be able to buy property here in Thailand in her name when she returns from working for Emirates in 3 years. If we have to do it in her sister's name, so be it, but if we can buy in her name all the better. Anyone know any better?

Hi BBC:

So long as you sign an affidavit at the land office saying you have no cliam over this land, you're wife (as she'll be then) can own the land legally. There's a particular notification, circa. 2000, that handles this. I don;t have the name of it here at home, but will post it when I return to the office tomorrow.

SM

[bkk_mike]

Thanks for the input.  As we are in Canada for the next 2-3 years I thought that maybe i missed some Land law change.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you would hear the cheer, all the way to Canada, if such a change occurred. And there would be a rush of planes to Thailand from Europe, Australia, Japan.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just look at Dubai. the government announced foreigners were allowed to buy property, and the property market took off.

[DeDanan]

Thank you Sunbelt,

For making the complex understandable!, in your post above. It should be pinned to the top of this forum.

Have a Happy,

DeDanan.

[RDN]

Thanks for the input.  As we are in Canada for the next 2-3 years I thought that maybe i missed some Land law change.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you would hear the cheer, all the way to Canada, if such a change occurred. And there would be a rush of planes to Thailand from Europe, Australia, Japan.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just look at Dubai. the government announced foreigners were allowed to buy property, and the property market took off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but isn't this the real problem, too? Thais could never afford to buy any prime real estate because all the 'rich' foreigners would push up the price. Same thing happened in Wales (to the West of England) - the Welsh nationalists got so upset that they burned down some of the 'holiday homes' (as they called them) of the 'rich' English who bought them.

[lopburi3]

My girlfriend and I plan to marry next year after 4 years together. Wondering whether she will be able to buy property here in Thailand in her name when she returns from working for Emirates in 3 years. If we have to do it in her sister's name, so be it, but if we can buy in her name all the better. Anyone know any better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The simple answer is yes; your wife can buy in her name. She will have to declare the money used is hers and you will have to acknowledge it is not part of joint marriage property.

[Sumitr Man]

* Nominee with Mortgage - you can use a Nominee to purchase the house/land and have a mortgage (registered with the appropriate land department office) on the property in your favors. It is important to note that only the owner of the land is entitled to mortgage the land; the lessee of land does not have the same privilege. The property cannot be sold until the mortgage lender signs the title documents declaring the mortgage cleared. This once again give 100% control over the property although not ownership. The buyer may remove the nominee should any problems arise and transfer in a new nominee at any time. One problem is however if the value of the land is greater than the loan, the person who owes the loan, can pay the loan off and buy the land.

Sunbelt - have you actually successfully done this? My experience is that Land Office will not register a security interest over land, e.g. a mortgage, in favor of a foreign national; however, a foreign financial institution may be different. The rationale for refusing to accept such a registration has always been that the foreigner would not be able to enforce the security interest, i.e. take possession of the land, even though, technically, the creditor - you - would need to enforce by means of a sale by public auction, rather than taking possession of the land.

Your post would appear to suggest this practice, by the Land Office, is no longer being done

[phormio]

There are a number of LEGAL ways that a foreigner may follow to own freehold land:

...

• Become a Thai resident/citizen

...

www.sunbeltasia.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wanted to ask about the Thai Resident part. I'm married to a Thai and could theoretically be a Thai Permanent Resident in 3-4 years. Assuming in 4 years I am granted PR status, will I be permitted to hold land in my name?

Note my parents are not Thai.

Thanks,

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt - have you actually successfully done this? My experience is that Land Office will not register a security interest over land, e.g. a mortgage, in favor of a foreign national;

Yes we have. Asked around today several other firms and they have as well. We prefer the company setup because on a morgage, the Thai national could pay off the loan to you and then sell the land. But yes you can as a foreigner still register the morgage.

Just wanted to ask about the Thai Resident part. I'm married to a Thai and could theoretically be a Thai Permanent Resident in 3-4 years. Assuming in 4 years I am granted PR status, will I be permitted to hold land in my name?

Note my parents are not Thai.

Thanks,

Phormio... if you are a woman. Its easy to become a Thai citizen by marrying a Thai man and then owning the land.

If you are a man, it will take more time. You'll need to hold the non immigrant visa for three years. Apply for PR.... after you are approved (takes around 2 years), then 5 years later apply for Thai Citizenship. You can then own the land afterwards.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[Sulaphat]

There are a number of LEGAL ways that a foreigner may follow to own freehold land:

...

• Become a Thai resident/citizen

...

www.sunbeltasia.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wanted to ask about the Thai Resident part. I'm married to a Thai and could theoretically be a Thai Permanent Resident in 3-4 years. Assuming in 4 years I am granted PR status, will I be permitted to hold land in my name?

Note my parents are not Thai.

Thanks,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai permanent resident status does not confer the right to own land to a foreigner. Thai citizenship does. A rough estimate of the typical time needed to obtain citizenship for a foreign male arriving in Thailand for the first time on a non-immigrant visa:

1) 3 years of non-immigrant status under the same permission to stay. Then you can apply for PR

2) Minimum (in most instances) one year from date of application to granting of PR.

3) Most likely 5 years or so as PR before an application for citizenship would be considered favorably.

4) 2 to 3 years of waiting for the citizenship to be granted.

I suspect that some people have gotten citizenship in less time than noted above, but I would consider those cases to be exceptional. Most of the westerners I know who have become naturalized Thais by the typical route were here at least as long as the total amount of time in 1 to 4 above.

[ZOVOX]

My girlfriend and I plan to marry next year after 4 years together. Wondering whether she will be able to buy property here in Thailand in her name when she returns from working for Emirates in 3 years. If we have to do it in her sister's name, so be it, but if we can buy in her name all the better. Anyone know any better?

Hi BBC:

So long as you sign an affidavit at the land office saying you have no cliam over this land, you're wife (as she'll be then) can own the land legally. There's a particular notification, circa. 2000, that handles this. I don;t have the name of it here at home, but will post it when I return to the office tomorrow.

SM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When me and my wife purchased our house, i was not asked to sign any affidavit at the land office. In fact, i signed no documents at all, except for at the bank when i got the cheque from my account to pay for property - do i have a serious problem ? Does my wife legally own our property ?

[astral]

My girlfriend and I plan to marry next year after 4 years together. Wondering whether she will be able to buy property here in Thailand in her name when she returns from working for Emirates in 3 years. If we have to do it in her sister's name, so be it, but if we can buy in her name all the better. Anyone know any better?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go with the company route, detailed below your original post, that way you retain control.

Consider the long term future.

If your wife predeceases you, who will own the house then? Not you.

If you die first, no problem leave her the company shares in your will.

[phormio]

...

Thai permanent resident status does not confer the right to own land to a foreigner. Thai citizenship does.  A rough estimate of the typical time needed to obtain citizenship for a foreign male arriving in Thailand for the first time on a non-immigrant visa:

1) 3 years of non-immigrant status under the same permission to stay.  Then you can apply for PR

2) Minimum (in most instances) one year from date of application to granting of PR.

3) Most likely 5 years or so as PR before an application for citizenship would be considered favorably.

4) 2 to 3 years of waiting for the citizenship to be granted.

I suspect that some people have gotten citizenship in less time than noted above, but I would consider those cases to be exceptional.  Most of the westerners I know who have become naturalized Thais by the typical route were here at least as long as the total amount of time in 1 to 4 above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have become aware, through participating in these forums , that a Thai citizen who becomes a naturalized US citizen can retain both passports and citizenships; however, does the other way round work too? If a US citizen is naturalized in Thailand as a Thai citizen, is he/she permitted to retain his/her US citizenship?

[lopburi3]

When me and my wife purchased our house, i was not asked to sign any affidavit at the land office. In fact, i signed no documents at all, except for at the bank when i got the cheque from my account to pay for property - do i have a serious problem ? Does my wife legally own our property ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just make sure to keep her happy.

[Dakhar]

Same thing here, when my wife purchased some land via my money:) I didn't sign a thing...

Yea, keep her happy......

[ZOVOX]

Same thing here, when my wife purchased some land via my money:)  I didn't sign a thing...

  Yea, keep her happy......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the tip - i intend to !!

[Dakhar]

Me too my friend, it is cheaper to keeper....

Just hope she understands that

[Sulaphat]

...

Thai permanent resident status does not confer the right to own land to a foreigner. Thai citizenship does.  A rough estimate of the typical time needed to obtain citizenship for a foreign male arriving in Thailand for the first time on a non-immigrant visa:

1) 3 years of non-immigrant status under the same permission to stay.  Then you can apply for PR

2) Minimum (in most instances) one year from date of application to granting of PR.

3) Most likely 5 years or so as PR before an application for citizenship would be considered favorably.

4) 2 to 3 years of waiting for the citizenship to be granted.

I suspect that some people have gotten citizenship in less time than noted above, but I would consider those cases to be exceptional.  Most of the westerners I know who have become naturalized Thais by the typical route were here at least as long as the total amount of time in 1 to 4 above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have become aware, through participating in these forums , that a Thai citizen who becomes a naturalized US citizen can retain both passports and citizenships; however, does the other way round work too? If a US citizen is naturalized in Thailand as a Thai citizen, is he/she permitted to retain his/her US citizenship?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I understand it, Thailand does not require one to renounce one's foreign citizenship to become a Thai national. I don't think that the mere act of becoming a Thai national jeopardizes one's US citizenship. I think one would have to renounce it in front of a US consular official. I could be wrong, but this is what I have come to understand from informal discussions with others who have obtained or who are considering obtaining Thai nationality.

[QUOTE]

I dont believe americans can renounce their usa citizenship, the IRS is way too powerfull.

[Boon Mee]

I dont believe americans can renounce their usa citizenship, the IRS is way too powerfull.

It can be done but it's also a giant pain-in-the-ass...