New Police Requirement

[RandyWhite]

Hi,

I am curious to know whether anyone else has experienced a new (new to me anyway) ID requirement when extending a tourist visa at Police Immmigration in Soi Suan Plu.

The last two times during the wait when I have already given counter number two downstairs my payment, xeroxes, application, smile and goodmorning and have beenwaiting for my passport to be returned with a new 30-day extension this has happened: the officer who accepted my money etc. has called me back and asked me to write my mobile/cell phone number on the front of my form.

From past experience, it's better being honest with the police (after all, there job is to catch people's lies) because I'm not a practiced liar so I have complied without asking why although there's no such requirement that I have ever seen on the application form itself. What I do know is that if my mobile is on and they know my number then they can trace my whereabouts which sorta makes me feel like one of those guys on parole that has to wear one of those electronic ankle bracelets. Of course, they could get my number from my service provider, so this seems to be an attempt by the powers that be to

make their job easier. So what does that make me - a threat to 'national security' ?

RAW / BKK

[FarangCravings]

Hi,

I am curious to know whether anyone else has experienced a new (new to me anyway) ID requirement when extending a tourist visa at Police Immmigration in Soi Suan Plu.

The last two times during the wait when I have already given counter number two downstairs my payment, xeroxes, application, smile and goodmorning and have beenwaiting for my passport to be returned with a new 30-day extension this has happened: the officer who accepted my money etc. has called me back and asked me to write my mobile/cell phone number on the front of my form.

From past experience, it's better being honest with the police (after all, there job is to catch people's lies) because I'm not a practiced liar so I have complied without asking why although there's no such requirement that I have ever seen on the application form itself. What I do know is that if my mobile is on and they know my number then they can trace my whereabouts which sorta makes me feel like one of those guys on parole that has to wear one of those electronic ankle bracelets. Of course, they could get my number from my service provider, so this seems to be an attempt by the powers that be to

make their job easier. So what does that make me - a threat to 'national security' ?

RAW / BKK

They cannot get your number form the provider unless you have a regular cell account most tourists have a pre paid and when you buy the Sim card you are not required to give any details. Why did you not ask why that is required.

[astral]

Even pre-paid SIM card holders have to provide details these days.

I received a similar request from Immigration when I was leaving India.

I asked why?

The reply was that they need to contact someone if there is an emergency, such as the plane crashing.

If the plane crashes, my phone and SIM card be with me in the crash.

Eventually I gave them a local contact number, not my own number.

Unless they are going to call immediately to check, yuo can give them any number you want.

[Cuban]

Even pre-paid SIM card holders have to provide details these days.

No longer true. There was the bigh drive to document every user of every SIM card - but it died a death and now you can buy SIM cards over the counter with only money changing hands.

One point of interest related to this subject, one of my SIMs died a few weeks ago. I popped into an AIS (?) service counter and was given a free replacement - some telephone number - same amount of call credit on the card before it died. I was asked for proof of ID as that was a SIM card that is registered to me.

I would guess that the OPs experiance was just to provide a point of contact in case there was a problem with the form, so in your own interest?

[MKAsok]

The officer who accepted my money etc. has called me back and asked me to write my mobile/cell phone number on the front of my form.

This happened to me the last time I did a 3 month extention at Suan Plu back in February (different desk from the TV extentions). Like you I was called back to the desk and asked to provide my mobile number on the form, despite there being no requirement for it on the form or no obvious place to write it. They specifically asked for a mobile number. It only occured to me later - and someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, maybe it's an urban myth - that owning a mobile with a Thai number is technically against the law unless you have a WP. So logically, you're actually being asked (by a police officer) to commit a criminal offence (perhaps they're after a foreign mobile number, but made no comment on the fact I provided a Thai number). No reason for the request was given and I really didn't feel much up to asking questions. I'm on a Non-Immi, so it didn't seem all that weird, seeing as it's obvious I'm here for an extended period. Does seem strange for a TV, but I'm sure it's nothing sinister...

[sniffdog]

I have nothing to hide ... they can have it. Likewise my address ... always put the (full) right address on the form.

[RandyWhite]

Thanks sniffdog etc. but having worked for a politically sensitive (aren't they all?) office of the RTG and being singled out from a dozen or so other applicants twice now, I think it would be unwise to assume there's nothing sinister in it.

Actually, my best guess now is that they want to know if potential farang 'trouble-makers' are going to show up in numbers to the PAD protests like we did (some with kids and all) back at Suan Luang in 2006 because that would not do the image of Mr. Thaksin...oops, I mean the government, any good.

But like I said, if they really want to know my number they don't have to ask so why should I question them and end the smooth sailing when I already have a red stamp on my last visa? Besides, I haven't been down to govt. house since '06 and have no plans to and it's on TV anyway.

RAW

[PeaceBlondie]

As for urban myths, who says you have to have a WP to get a mobile? Or a bank account?

[abdulrahman]

As for urban myths, who says you have to have a WP to get a mobile? Or a bank account?

Urban myths? may be.Or may be I'm simply paranoid!

But I have been asked for a WP to open an Account,to buy a SIM Card too,and this in Thailand.

I have an account,since a long time already,no WP,and no mobile;but I can give them a number,if pressed;up to them to check.

I love my privacy and will give away as little as I can.I'm fully aware that my attitude makes me a criminal in someone eyes.F*** them!

[tijnebijn]

A WP for a Sim card ? that's the most , or at least one of the most ridiculous things

I have ever heard of .

You always could let somebody else buy for your use , but I'm pretty sure that every

local salesmen will give a new simcard happily to make some more cash .

Its just the most funny thing of the day .

[MKAsok]

As for urban myths, who says you have to have a WP to get a mobile? Or a bank account?

When I wrote that post, I really couldn't remember where I heard about this, only that it was definitely filed in the 'comes from fairly credible source' area of my brain. I've subsequently given it some thought and remembered:

Robert Cooper

Culture Shock! - Thailand

Marshall Cavendish 2007 edition

P143: "Owning a mobile phone is illegal unless you have a work permit or residency, although nobody seems aware of this law and any visitor can now buy a mobile phone over the counter at the supermarket very cheaply."

So, assuming the relevant law has not been repealed since 2007 and Cooper's information is reliable, it does appear technically illegal. I guess that's me screwed... (it's a friend's phone - honest!). But more seriously, if this is true, it might be worth bearing in mind if you have a mobile phone contract in your own name (rather than an unregistered pay-as-you-go SIM) and you give immigration that number. I'm sure their primary intention isn't to catch people out on this, but if they happened, say one day, to need a convienient pretext for something - who knows?

mk

[monty]

As for urban myths, who says you have to have a WP to get a mobile? Or a bank account?

When I wrote that post, I really couldn't remember where I heard about this, only that it was definitely filed in the 'comes from fairly credible source' area of my brain. I've subsequently given it some thought and remembered:

Robert Cooper

Culture Shock! - Thailand

Marshall Cavendish 2007 edition

P143: "Owning a mobile phone is illegal unless you have a work permit or residency, although nobody seems aware of this law and any visitor can now buy a mobile phone over the counter at the supermarket very cheaply."

So, assuming the relevant law has not been repealed since 2007 and Cooper's information is reliable, it does appear technically illegal. I guess that's me screwed... (it's a friend's phone - honest!). But more seriously, if this is true, it might be worth bearing in mind if you have a mobile phone contract in your own name (rather than an unregistered pay-as-you-go SIM) and you give immigration that number. I'm sure their primary intention isn't to catch people out on this, but if they happened, say one day, to need a convienient pretext for something - who knows?

mk

Lots of those books (and their writers) have no clue (not all of them, there's some good ones around as well!).

Many times these writers are here on assignment, and have a set amount of months to finish their jobs. Few of them are actually expats.

Add to that that laws and requirements can and do change sometimes every few weeks, basically renders such works rather useless, and basically makes day to day updated sources such as Thaivisa very useful...

Owning a mobile phone is in no way illegal for visitors.

Most mobile phone operators however require a work permit to allow you to start a post paid account. This has in no way anything to do with laws, but just the simple fact that they are weary of giving foreigners accounts, on which they can rack up a huge bill, and then just fly home without ever paying for it!

For exactly the same reason you can get pre-paid simcards without showing any paperwork at all. There is no risk involved for the operator since you can't run up a bill!

There was however a short period where it was compulsory to register your pre-paid number with a copy of your passport. Reason for this was that they were trying to put a stop to the mobile phone operated bombs in the South of Thailand.

Eventually they dumped the scheme, today there is no requirement for any paperwork when acquiring pre-paid sim cards...

The above quote from that writer sounds like re-hashed stuff, dating back from the pre-GSM days when there was no such thing as pre-paid sim cards. Seems like the writers just took over stuff from previous editions without verifying! Even back then there was no illegality involved whatsoever, only the mobile phone operators protecting their business.

[MKAsok]

Owning a mobile phone is in no way illegal for visitors.

Monty - thanks for taking the time to clear that up...

[astral]

As for urban myths, who says you have to have a WP to get a mobile? Or a bank account?

It is true, or was, if you want a postpaid line.

Mine is in my wife's name.

[grahamhc]

A WP for a Sim card ? that's the most , or at least one of the most ridiculous things

I have ever heard of .

You always could let somebody else buy for your use , but I'm pretty sure that every

local salesmen will give a new simcard happily to make some more cash .

Its just the most funny thing of the day .

I think this may have been true about 10 years ago, as someone else had to buy my Pre-pay SIM for me.

When I lost my mobile, I went to DTAC in Sri Racha. I was asked why the SIM was registered. I replied that when I bought it, foreigners could not own SIMs. The clerk replied "Oh. No problem, we register you now." They issued a new SIM with my old number. (For security, they asked me to say the last number I called, so showed them my back-up mobile with the same numbers).

On my last trip to CAMBODIA, you could not buy a SIM unless you were Cambodian, but the cleaner in the guesthouse said she would buy me one in her name for 10 USD, which was the correct price.

[phuketrichard]

The officer who accepted my money etc. has called me back and asked me to write my mobile/cell phone number on the front of my form.

This happened to me the last time I did a 3 month extention at Suan Plu back in February (different desk from the TV extentions). Like you I was called back to the desk and asked to provide my mobile number on the form, despite there being no requirement for it on the form or no obvious place to write it. They specifically asked for a mobile number. It only occured to me later - and someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, maybe it's an urban myth - that owning a mobile with a Thai number is technically against the law unless you have a WP. So logically, you're actually being asked (by a police officer) to commit a criminal offence (perhaps they're after a foreign mobile number, but made no comment on the fact I provided a Thai number). No reason for the request was given and I really didn't feel much up to asking questions. I'm on a Non-Immi, so it didn't seem all that weird, seeing as it's obvious I'm here for an extended period. Does seem strange for a TV, but I'm sure it's nothing sinister...

I have always been asked for my mobile number when renewing my 1 year extension.

who cares!!! it's in my ex wifes name with an adrress that we havn't lived at for years.

Why are u making a big deal out of it??

When ever i call ais they ask who i am and i tell them so even though the sim is registered in her name they dont care.

AND yes u do need a work permit to get a sim card if ur paying monthly Post Paid (not just topping up) Where as a land line can be owned buy a farang with no WP

AS to Cambodia.

I am here now and everyone told me that only Khmers can buy a sim card. So i went in a local mobile office and asked if i could buy one. sure, no problem :-)

Edited July 6, 2008 by phuketrichard

[lopburi3]

All TM.7 forms now seem to have a requirement for your home phone number. For a tourist I suspect they ask for mobil expecting that to be what you have - it you don't have I would put your hotel number. For those of us using yearly extensions of stay we are also being asked to include our telephone number on the back side of form and have been asked for about a year now.

[RandyWhite]

Re "Who cares!!!...Why are you making such a big deal of it ??" or whatever from phuketrichard (?):

Well sport, I reckon I would have been making a big deal of it - if I had questioned her reason for asking me and not any of the other people there, but as I didn't I reckon I wasn't, comprendre?

As the Cisco Kid would say, " Adios amigos! See you soon - Ha!!! "

RAW

[Naam]

I love my privacy and will give away as little as I can.

right you are! i even refuse to hand over my passport to an immigration officer when i enter a country. none of their business who i am. and i don't care whether i'm considered a criminal

[glyph]

I just renewed my retirement visa for the 4th time and, all 5 times that I've gone through the process, I've been asked for my phone number. I did not realize that the appropriate farng response was supposed to be suspicion and fear. Next time, you can give them a phony number.

[RandyWhite]

All TM.7 forms now seem to have a requirement for your home phone number. For a tourist I suspect they ask for mobil expecting that to be what you have - it you don't have I would put your hotel number. For those of us using yearly extensions of stay we are also being asked to include our telephone number on the back side of form and have been asked for about a year now.

FYI: I have double checked and there is no requirement to supply any phone contact number on my TM.7

[lopburi3]

That is why they always tell you to do so. There is no line for it. They ask you to write it down with the data on the back side when you submit the form.

[RandyWhite]

I just renewed my retirement visa for the 4th time and, all 5 times that I've gone through the process, I've been asked for my phone number. I did not realize that the appropriate farng response was supposed to be suspicion and fear. Next time, you can give them a phony number.

I have spent most of the past 30 years working here and based on that I would say that suspicion was a very reasonable reaction on my part.

As for fear, seems to me like you are taking a cheap shot by implying that my reaction indicated an unreasonable fear AKA paranoia.

And as for you condescending advice to give the cops a phony phone number next time, if I ever did have another problem to iron out with them, they wouldn't be inclined to be nearly so helpful as they were last time to someone who they knew had tricked them. It's about 'face', sport.

By the way, last time I had a visa problem it took a day and a half down there to sort it out: a relatively junior public servant (Australian) at the Oz Embassy trying a get-even 'power-play' confiscated my old passport with my Thai visa in it while I was picking up my newe one because he deemed that the elephant I had drawn on the front cover (so as to distinguish it from others since the cheap gold embossing had completely worn away in only a year or so and sometimes they all get heaped together so someone else could quite easily walk off with mine) amounted to an "act of defacing Australian government property" for which he was considering to bring the Federal police all the way from Oz.

I said he could keep it and laughed and told him what a clown he was.

[longball53098]

Like most things here in LOS----------->>>>>>>>>>maybe they just haven't got round to adding a field on the form for a local phone number?

Three years of retirement extensions and they always ask me to write my number on the form.

Big deal! No way

[glyph]

"...have spent most of the past 30 years working here and based on that I would say that suspicion was a very reasonable reaction on my part. As for fear, seems to me like you are taking a cheap shot by implying that my reaction indicated an unreasonable fear AKA paranoia."

Well then, in your 30 years of working in BKK, please provide us with your reasonable reaction of suspicion, fear, and paranoia. You're quite in a fit, fearing both providing and not providing a phone number...and you think you're reasonable. So be it.

[ZZZ]

As far as I know there is no law saying that you MUST have a mobile so if they ask for a number and you don't want to give it just say you don't have one.

[a2396]

As for urban myths, who says you have to have a WP to get a mobile? Or a bank account?

I recently tried to get a monthly mobile account (not pre-paid card) from DTAC and was told I had to have a work permit. I asked several clerks about this and got the same answer.

[Briggsy]

The Department of Land Transport now ask for your phone number when issuing a driving licence. It is a printed box on the application form just under your signature.

[bangkokgas]

I love my privacy and will give away as little as I can.

right you are! i even refuse to hand over my passport to an immigration officer when i enter a country. none of their business who i am. and i don't care whether i'm considered a criminal

Spoken like a true klingon!

[abdulrahman]

I love my privacy and will give away as little as I can.

right you are! i even refuse to hand over my passport to an immigration officer when i enter a country. none of their business who i am. and i don't care whether i'm considered a criminal

Spoken like a true klingon!

I've always showed a Passport,every time i went out of my country and entered another country where it was required.

I was frequently asked for,in my view,un-necessary informations too,and I always refused them.

Most of the time it's only pure,unadulterated,curiosity,especially in Thailand.(as if they would understand anything).

I like THE Government,my own included,to know all that's necessary for my needs,no more,no less.

It's simply that I don' trust any of them.This make me paranoid?Possibly.A criminal?Don't think so.

But I'm sure Klingon IS different.