Problems With Ngv Conversion

[monkeytunes]

I have just had my Toyota Fortuna converted so it can use NGV,

since the conversion I have had a problem with it ,Basically the car keeps stalling, Ive taken it back three times know, the first time they said no problem the car just needs fine tunning ,but the car still keeps stalling mainly when Im diriving slowly, just pressing the gas pedel a little bit when creeping in traffic, has anyone else had this problem? what could be the cause?

The garage have know said that I need to adjust the way the car, this cant be right.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[tigerbeer]

are u sure the car is stalling???? I think stalling is not the right word. stalling means your engine shuts off??

i have had NGV in my car for the last 6 months now. After conversion, there are jerks, slight ones especially when the accelerator is pressed only slightly when maintaining a certain speed be it at low or high speeds. after a few tune ups, it did get better but still have those jerks at times. I have come to a conclusion that its "normal" to have these slight jerks from time to time.

probably something to do with the high pressure that the CNG is stored at. perhaps the pressure is not uniform from the tank to the engine at times???

then again, do let us know what you mean by stalling. enjoy the savings my friend, few months down the road and you would be smiling with the amount of savings you have made.

[hans1977]

1) Do you have a mixer, or do you have an injection system for the gas?

2) Did you fit brand new parts, or are they second hand?

A properly installed system should run as smooth as it does with petrol, although with a notable performance drop as well as more frequently required tune-ups (2-4 times per year would appear normal to me).

I have read somewhere that not all brands/makes are suitable to run on CNG/LPG; i don't know if this is true, but i do know that some cars are more difficult to run on gas then others are.

/Hans

I have just had my Toyota Fortuna converted so it can use NGV,

since the conversion I have had a problem with it ,Basically the car keeps stalling, Ive taken it back three times know, the first time they said no problem the car just needs fine tunning ,but the car still keeps stalling mainly when Im diriving slowly, just pressing the gas pedel a little bit when creeping in traffic, has anyone else had this problem? what could be the cause?

The garage have know said that I need to adjust the way the car, this cant be right.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Plus]

If it's a proper NGV installation, you got a dedicated ECU piggybacking on the original, petrol ECU. After it's properly set you don't need any additional tuneups like on old mixer LPG systems where screws literally get loose.

As for stalling problem - have no idea. Could be something with idle mixture problem - the transition from idle to open throttle is not smooth enough, these are two different modes in you NGV ECU. I suspect it could be mechanical problem - the gas doesn't flow fast enough, for example. I tried to press this point many times with my LPG mechanics but they always say it's impossible, just need an ECU tune up. Maybe they know better, maybe they are just lazy. I'm tempted to get under the car myslef and follow the pipe all the way from the tank to the mixer and check if it has any weird bends that would slow gas flow.

Probably I'm just paranoid, my engine doesn't stall, ...yet, just sometimes I feel like not enough gas is available at low rpms.

[Plus]

If it's a proper NGV installation, you got a dedicated ECU piggybacking on the original, petrol ECU. After it's properly set you don't need any additional tuneups like on old mixer LPG systems where screws literally get loose.

As for stalling problem - have no idea. Could be something with idle mixture problem - the transition from idle to open throttle is not smooth enough, these are two different modes in you NGV ECU. I suspect it could be mechanical problem - the gas doesn't flow fast enough, for example. I tried to press this point many times with my LPG mechanics but they always say it's impossible, just need an ECU tune up. Maybe they know better, maybe they are just lazy. I'm tempted to get under the car myslef and follow the pipe all the way from the tank to the mixer and check if it has any weird bends that would slow gas flow.

Probably I'm just paranoid, my engine doesn't stall, ...yet, just sometimes I feel like not enough gas is available at low rpms.

[monkeytunes]

are u sure the car is stalling???? I think stalling is not the right word. stalling means your engine shuts off??

i have had NGV in my car for the last 6 months now. After conversion, there are jerks, slight ones especially when the accelerator is pressed only slightly when maintaining a certain speed be it at low or high speeds. after a few tune ups, it did get better but still have those jerks at times. I have come to a conclusion that its "normal" to have these slight jerks from time to time.

probably something to do with the high pressure that the CNG is stored at. perhaps the pressure is not uniform from the tank to the engine at times???

then again,get do let us know what you mean by stalling. enjoy the savings my friend, few months down the road and you would be smiling with the amount of savings you have made.

Hello Tigerbeer,

Yes the engine cuts off completely, it tends to happen when Ive just started the car, but stalls at least twice everytime I drive, I also get the little jecky movements, but its the stalling that worries me the most, the problem I have is im not not great on mechanical stuff, plus theres only one NGV installer here oin Hua Hin that I know about, so before I got the installation done, I tried to ask as many question and confirm they covered all the essential, based on what Ive read here, but when I ook under the bonnet I havnt a clue what things should be there.

Anyway, thats for the feedback, regards MT

[Heng]

Are these conversions one way? Any chance on converting it back to what the car was built to run on: gasoline (in the future)?

[initiala4]

probably poor piggy programming or hardware issue.

Edited July 9, 2008 by initiala4

[teej]

Heng: these conversions are essentially just changing fuel and the way it's delivered to the engine, so I would imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to return the vehicle back to it's original petrol status (Unless the petrol tank, fuel pump/lines have been removed or have not been used to the point where they need to be replaced). But in the end, you should still be able to get the car back to petrol.

Monkeytunes, if you are cruising at speed (but not on the gas pedal) and then press the gas pedal, does it stall as well?

Edited July 9, 2008 by teej

[Heng]

Thanks Teej.

[clausewitz]

(Unless the petrol tank, fuel pump/lines have been removed or have not been used to the point where they need to be replaced).

Can you cite any converters that do that? As far as I know all conversions on petrol engines in Thailand keep the original tanks and lines - that is why the car runs on either CNG or petrol.

[tigerbeer]

are u sure the car is stalling???? I think stalling is not the right word. stalling means your engine shuts off??

i have had NGV in my car for the last 6 months now. After conversion, there are jerks, slight ones especially when the accelerator is pressed only slightly when maintaining a certain speed be it at low or high speeds. after a few tune ups, it did get better but still have those jerks at times. I have come to a conclusion that its "normal" to have these slight jerks from time to time.

probably something to do with the high pressure that the CNG is stored at. perhaps the pressure is not uniform from the tank to the engine at times???

then again,get do let us know what you mean by stalling. enjoy the savings my friend, few months down the road and you would be smiling with the amount of savings you have made.

Hello Tigerbeer,

Yes the engine cuts off completely, it tends to happen when Ive just started the car, but stalls at least twice everytime I drive, I also get the little jecky movements, but its the stalling that worries me the most, the problem I have is im not not great on mechanical stuff, plus theres only one NGV installer here oin Hua Hin that I know about, so before I got the installation done, I tried to ask as many question and confirm they covered all the essential, based on what Ive read here, but when I ook under the bonnet I havnt a clue what things should be there.

Anyway, thats for the feedback, regards MT

when i first converted, i had similar problems. It would cut off if not enough pedal was pressed. perhaps too early for the auto petrol to gas shift. not sure. then after about a month, the car would just stall when shifted to NGV. Sent it back and they reckoned that the whole system needed to be changed. perhaps faulty parts? now its all right. still get those occasional jerks but otherwise works perfectly. Mine was done by S.O. NGV who are also the dealers for Proton cars in Chiang Mai. They have a branch in Ayutthia.

I am afraid that you might have to insist on getting them to re-look into the installation. your car should not stall. period! you have to insist on it. do whatever you can to have them sort it off. the last resort being to drive to bangkok for someone else to have a look at it. and this time by a professional and well reputed installer.

I recommend you visit The Malaysian COmmunity of NGV Users for a whole lot of information and help. They might have a solution for you.

(Unless the petrol tank, fuel pump/lines have been removed or have not been used to the point where they need to be replaced).

Can you cite any converters that do that? As far as I know all conversions on petrol engines in Thailand keep the original tanks and lines - that is why the car runs on either CNG or petrol.

well its only if you want a car that only runs on CNG. Would not understand why anyone would want to do that. But as far as I know, both regular LPG and NGV conversions are reversible.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thanks for those links Tigerbeer..!

How much did the conversion cost at that Proton place? I drive past there sometimes and it doesn't look they're doing THAT much business?

[tigerbeer]

Thanks for those links Tigerbeer..!

How much did the conversion cost at that Proton place? I drive past there sometimes and it doesn't look they're doing THAT much business?

Proton is not doing much business obviously but their NGV conversion business at the "back" is overwhelming. Long queues for months.

[Gary A]

It definitely should not stall. It may be a simple fix like setting the idle speed a little higher. It won't hurt to idle at about 800 RPM. The installer should fix it but if all else fails the Toyota shop should be able to fix it or at least suggest another installer.