Legal Position? Based Los, Working Remotely Uk

[chrisartist]

Some are adamant that it's illegal and that no proof towards it's legality has ever been demonstrated but can anyone point us to a website or document where immigration specifically states telecommuting for a company outside Thailand is illegal?

I personally contacted SunBelt and Siam Legal who both said it is legal.

According to the letter of the law such behaviour is rendered illegal by the definition of work that is operative in Thai law. Nothing can change that. No lawyers, no immigration officers, nobody, can justifiedly say that it is legal according to the letter of the law, because it is rendered illegal by the definition of work that is operative in Thai law. However, it would be extremely interesting to have access to precedents in which the Thai authorities had to decide what to do about the illegal behaviour. That is to say, whether there are any rulings by Thai judges or people with similar authority as to whether or not such behaviour falls foul of the spirit of the law.

One way to avoid the problem is this:

Set up as a sole proprietor in the UK. Then you are the sole owner of the company. You can have as many employees as you want. Freelance contract workers are best, because then you can class their work as casual labour and you don't have to get involved in PAYE. Farm out all the work to your freelancers. The money will still go to your account in the UK and you can remit funds to Thailand. Then you are not working in Thailand and you are not liable for tax in the UK.

Another, sneakier, way is this:

Get yourself a website and have a form whereby your clients can upload work. Make sure that your webhost provides you with an online console for doing e-mail. Then set up the form on the website so that when your clients upload work, the form sends you an e-mail with the work as an attachment. Then you can send e-mail to your clients without leaving any evidence on your computer while still having a bona fide company e-mail address rather than an unprofessional gmail/yahoo/hotmail account. Further, for doing work on your computer, store all your work on a 3.5" external hard disk that you can put in your pocket. Ensure that the application that you use for working does not keep a record of recently opened files. Then there is no record of your work on your computer and if anyone comes a calling, you can just stick your external hard disk in your pocket. 

With respect to your neighbours, simply say that you do highly-paid work while you are in the UK that funds your frequent and lengthy trips to Thailand......and invent a hobby and tell your neighbours that that is what you spend your time on. Reading books on a particular topic is sufficient. It is very unlikely that anyone will ask further questions once you have explained to them that, for example, you are very interested in the history of economic theory.

Edited July 14, 2008 by chrisartist

[wasabi]

I have saved the emails from Sunbelt and Siam Legal and will forward them to anyone who PM's me with all personal information XX'd out. Quite frankly I would love to have a conclusive answer on this once and for all but TIT so that may never happen.

[yeti]

Hi Kate,

I am in exactly the same situation, living here and working remotely for customers based outside Thailand.

I did check out the legal side and can tell you it is 100% Illegal (even if you only work 1 day per year) no question about it and with very dire consequences should you get caught, these including deportation, fine I think up to 200 000B and even Prison. I don't think they would send you to prison but deportation would be certain. Myself, this did bother me and to boot my neighbors were asking to many questions, so I decided to go legal, the only way possible is to set up a company. This costs about 60 000B including work permit and everything , the tax issue will sort itself out as you will have to pay about 7% Tax on a minimum of 50 000B per month. The cost of running the company is about 13 000B per month including accounting and social benefits for 4 employees you don't really employ.

Anyway running a company here will probably be cheaper than paying tax in the UK.

If you do decide to continue working Illegally then please don't tell anybody especially the neighbors, they are your biggest danger, they will be jealous and snitch on you! Believe me. Remember to Bolt the doors and send all Emails encrypted, Email will probably be the first place they look for evidence before a search warrant is issued.

Good Luck!

So to avoid working illegally in Thailand from home you set up a company with thai shareholders owning more than 50% of it and bogus thai employees.

It seems to me that you changed from an illegal situation (working from home without a workpermit) to another illegal one: a company were thai shareholders have more than 50% of the company without running it and having 4 bogus employees.

And this new situation seems to be more dangerous, as authorities can come and check wether you are really working in the place stated on your work permit, and would probably not be too happy about finding that your thai employees are not working there.

Did I miss something?

[monkfish]

Chrisartist, yes you are 100% right, we have to consider the spirit of the Thai law and why it there. I think the best way to do this is to put yourself in the position of the Thai authorities and decide if you think what you are doing is right or wrong. Here are a couple of examples try to decide for yourself if against the law, I think myself it is easy, also consider Thai culture and mentality and not what’s convenient and best for you.

1.An alien lives in Thailand and brushes there own Teeth.

My opinion: This is personal hygiene and not against the law, if you were brushing someone else’s teeth and charging money, this could be a problem.

2.An alien does small maintenance work around his own home including cleaning and cutting the grass for example.

My opinion: No problem don’t bother them.

3.An alien buys a house and does extensive maintenance work themselves including building an extension, kitchen etc.

My opinion: Against the law! send someone round give them a warning they should stop.

4.An alien grows Papaya trees in his garden and sells them on the local market.

My opinion: Against the law! Arrest and deport.

5.An alien lives in Thailand works from home in Thailand via the Internet thus earning money.

My opinion: So they live in Thailand, enjoy the Thai lifestyle and weather etc. They work here there by earning money. Yet they do not contribute in anyway to the Thai social system nor do they even pay TAX in my country! This is against the law and theft! Arrest, deport and black list! What do you think?

If you work in Thailand earning money and do not pay Tax you are in effect steeling from the government and that is serious, consider the implications of doing this in your own country, the answer to the question is actually very obvious. If you do, then be prepared to bare the consequences and don’t complain should you get copped.

Yeti:

I am doing all in my power to stay on the right side of the Law here in Thailand, however its not always easy as I am sure you know. I pay Tax, I pay social, I pay for the company and I have a legal WP. The company is completely legal being 51% Thai owned, but this is no problem as I am the director and make all the decisions. The only part that is not 100% legal is the 4 employees bit, but now I do have 1 Thai employee and will certainly try in the future to up that to 4. Breaking this law however is not as serious as not paying tax or working illegally and in some parts of Thailand not even required i.e. Bangkok and certainly won’t get me deported or Black listed.

[chrisartist]

Chrisartist, yes you are 100% right, we have to consider the spirit of the Thai law and why it there. I think the best way to do this is to put yourself in the position of the Thai authorities and decide if you think what you are doing is right or wrong. Here are a couple of examples try to decide for yourself if against the law, I think myself it is easy, also consider Thai culture and mentality and not what's convenient and best for you.

1.An alien lives in Thailand and brushes there own Teeth.

My opinion: This is personal hygiene and not against the law, if you were brushing someone else's teeth and charging money, this could be a problem.

2.An alien does small maintenance work around his own home including cleaning and cutting the grass for example.

My opinion: No problem don't bother them.

3.An alien buys a house and does extensive maintenance work themselves including building an extension, kitchen etc.

My opinion: Against the law! send someone round give them a warning they should stop.

4.An alien grows Papaya trees in his garden and sells them on the local market.

My opinion: Against the law! Arrest and deport.

5.An alien lives in Thailand works from home in Thailand via the Internet thus earning money.

My opinion: So they live in Thailand, enjoy the Thai lifestyle and weather etc. They work here there by earning money. Yet they do not contribute in anyway to the Thai social system nor do they even pay TAX in my country! This is against the law and theft! Arrest, deport and black list! What do you think?

If you work in Thailand earning money and do not pay Tax you are in effect steeling from the government and that is serious, consider the implications of doing this in your own country, the answer to the question is actually very obvious. If you do, then be prepared to bare the consequences and don't complain should you get copped.

Yeti:

I am doing all in my power to stay on the right side of the Law here in Thailand, however its not always easy as I am sure you know. I pay Tax, I pay social, I pay for the company and I have a legal WP. The company is completely legal being 51% Thai owned, but this is no problem as I am the director and make all the decisions. The only part that is not 100% legal is the 4 employees bit, but now I do have 1 Thai employee and will certainly try in the future to up that to 4. Breaking this law however is not as serious as not paying tax or working illegally and in some parts of Thailand not even required i.e. Bangkok and certainly won't get me deported or Black listed.

Monkfish, I will reply to all of your points. In fact, all of your (1) to (5) are against the law. However, the Thai authorities are likely to be bothered by some scenarios more than others.

1) The authorities will not be bothered by (1) (which means that they need to be more careful about how they make the law.) However, the fact that pretty much everything is against the law for a foreigner makes it very easy for the authorities to get rid of them if they take a dislike to them. A more useful example in this context is taking photographs or painting pictures, because both of these activities can be done for fun or profit. Given the cronyism that goes on in Thailand, it is quite easy to imagine a scenario in which a foreigner is punished for innocuous acts. Suppose I get on the wrong side of my neighbour. Perhaps he doesn't like my dog barking, or whatever. For some reason, my dog's barking drives him round the bend and he decides that I simply need to be taught a lesson. He has a friend who is a local policeman. They get drunk together and he tells the policeman that I am taking photographs with the intention of taking them back to the UK to sell them. Hence, I am working illegally. The policeman arrests me and I get deported. This story would be most fanciful in most countries; but not in Thailand. (There is an element of truth in this story. I had a dog. My neighbour didn't like it. The neighbour got drunk. however, he acted in a more direct manner. When I went on a trip, he simply beat the dog to death with a stick.) 

2) My point about (1) applies here as well, though in this case, it could be argued that by performing such tasks, the foreigner is taking away paid employment from a Thai person. However, I personally do not think that this is a big deal.

3) Again, against the law, and more serious, because it is easier to argue that the foreigner is taking paid employment away from a Thai person. On the other hand, it is an interesting issue why the Thai government should be as concerned as they are about matters such as this. Surely a person should be allowed to save himself a bit of money by doing work himself? I am aware that the authorities would take a dim view in this case, but if a Thai person is allowed to work on his house himself, why shouldn't a foreigner be able to? Why should he have to pay money when he can save money by doing the work himself?

4) In this case, the foreigner is clearly trying to make a profit. The authorities would take a dim view of this. However, I think that your reaction is far too extreme. Do you really want to deport someone because they grew and sold a few papayas? A better way would be to let the foreigner grow a few papayas, within limits, and sell them, but make him pay tax on his earnings.

5) This is a complicated case. First, to clear the ground, not paying taxes is not stealing from the government. When you stael something, someone else has something that you want and you take it from them. In the case of not paying taxes, you have something that the government wants and you will not give it to them. So, not paying taxes is definitely not stealing.

Be that as it may, the foreigner is earning money from the work that is done in Thailand, regardless of where the money is paid (the UK, in this instance). Hence, it should be taxable income, provided that the foreigner spends a significant portion of the year in Thailand. I suspect that no foreigner would mind paying tax under these circumstances. However, foreigners are precluded from paying tax because they are only allowed to work under certain very draconian conditions; they cannot, for instance, be self-employed. 

As to your point about the foreigner not contributing to the Thai social system, I think you are mistaken. Suppose that a foreigner is working in Thailand on a work permit. He gets paid in Thailand, in Thai baht, and he pays taxes out of the Thai baht that he gets paid. So when he pays taxes, the government is only getting money that was already in Thailand anyway. By contrast, a foreigner who works on the internet, has only customers in other countries, who gets money paid to the UK, and who then remits a substantial sum of money each year to Thailand (in all likelihood more than 1 million baht a year) is actually contributing to Thai society a lot, because he is bringing money into the country that would not otherwise come.

So, on the one hand, the foreigner would not mind paying taxes but he can't because Thai law prevents him from paying it because he is not allowed to do the work. On the other hand, the work that he does is greatly beneficial to Thai society because it brings money into the country. The money that comes in is much better than taxes. It is basically a free gift of over 1 million baht a year (for example) to Thai society.

I have focused on the money angle because you focused on taxes, which is all about money.

If you do a bit of research on employment law in other countries (especially European countries) you will find that the law allows foreigners to earn a living in many different ways and there are not nearly so many restrictions. Although the system does not perfectly follow the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which guarantees the unrestricted right to work and residence, it follows the spirit of the Declaration (which constitutes part of international law) infintely more closely than does Thai law.

[BSJ]

Jimjim: However, all the times I've seen this in the past those that have actually tried to go down to the labour office and ask about it have either been given confused stares from many different staff, even those in high positions, or laughed out of the place and told not to worry about it. I believe one was told by an officer that technically it was illegal but they had no policy for such people and that they would not be in danger from their office or the police. Basically, they were told not to worry about it as it wasn't a concern.

I find that to be strange but interesting!

What we need is a clear and consise answer from officialdom,

otherwise all we got is a can of worms!

Edited July 14, 2008 by BSJ

[Jimjim]

Put yourself in their shoes. Would you care? More trouble than it's worth for them.

[bkk_mike]

The simple answer is that Thai laws are stupid.

Under the letter of Thai law, it is illegal for someone who is here on holiday to log in to their office and check their email on the basis that they are "working" and do not have a work permit.

No policeman in his right mind is going to start arresting foreigners for logging onto the internet using a computer. On that basis, lots of workaholics I know who've been here on holiday would be in jail. (And I know people who live and work in Tokyo who keep a flat in Sukhumvit for the occasional weekend, so simply excluding hotels wouldn't work for not picking up people on holiday).

The simple answer is that a foreigner employed and paid abroad, who is simply living in Thailand, working from home, has no way to comply with the work permit rules. (i.e. You're working from home, not a "place of work", the company you're working for doesn't have an office in Thailand, etc. ).

Some people say the only way to go "legal" is to set up a bogus company (which worked so well for the people buying houses here).

I did check with a legal firm in Thailand before moving here, and I was basically told not to worry about it.

- Immigration don't care so long as you're on a valid visa (which I always have been)

- And the chance of being picked up in your own home by the department responsible for work permits was basically nil (obviously increased if you annoy someone - like a neighbour).

[monkfish]

Chris I do get the point of view about bringing foreign revenue into Thailand and in a way yes you would be contributing to the Thai economy. But would the average Thai official even understand this point of view or even care? they have a job to do and thats that.

May be I was a bit harsh in my judgments? But I don’t think so e.g. Nr 4 would be the most serious case.

Jimjim, do they care? Probably not!

That’s why they have now set up a new department with sole purpose the of hunting down Illegal workers, I guess they just got too much money and don’t know where to spend it.

That’s why Legal Alien workers will soon have to pay a special Deportation Tax to cover the cost of shipping Illegal workers home. In a way they are very very clever! If you know what I mean? this could almost be the work of Mr T.

[monkfish]

Chris also sorry to here about your dog! Thats a terrible story, with neighbors like that who needs enemies!

I also have a neighbor who is and very unfriendly I think given the chance he would cop me.

bbk_mike, stop kidding yourself! you are just taking things to extremes so you can justify working Illegally.

Actually Thai law is not stupid but in fact clever as it gives them the flexibility to decide what they want it was also made for a reason.

The reason, they do not want any foreign people working here in any form or manner! full stop.

e.g. I often have a Thai man come around my house and offer to cut my grass for 500B but there is no way I'm going to

pay that price for 5 square meters of grass, so I tell him no thanks and cut it myself. I know one day I will get a problem about that.

The tourist industry also has a problem including the big companies as in Kouni, Thomas Cook etc. The problem, there tourist guides are not allowed to work here, they have to hire a Thai guide and are only allowed to translate.

[Jimjim]

Jimjim, do they care? Probably not!

That’s why they have now set up a new department with sole purpose the of hunting down Illegal workers, I guess they just got too much money and don’t know where to spend it.

That’s why Legal Alien workers will soon have to pay a special Deportation Tax to cover the cost of shipping Illegal workers home. In a way they are very very clever! If you know what I mean? this could almost be the work of Mr T.

Are you being sarcastic? Point being they will target illegal workers taking work away from Thais or are working at some office without a work permit. There is no way to get legal working from your apartment and getting all money overseas according to the law. In fact, while setting up a bogus company seems like a brilliant idea to some, it probably just opens you up to more scrutiny. Also, setting up a company purely to buy land is not good and I think they made a specific law against it now.

[Jimjim]

Actually Thai law is not stupid but in fact clever as it gives them the flexibility to decide what they want it was also made for a reason.

The reason, they do not want any foreign people working here in any form or manner! full stop.

Whoa. Ok, now I know not to take anything you say seriously. It's just not true but only your view. Hey, that rhymed. Cool. Your view is too extreme to be taken seriously.

[monkfish]

OK am obviously bangin my head on a brick wall.

You compare foreigners checking there Email with people who live and work here 9 months of the year.

Who is more extreme?

Oh and by the way I did not say I liked the law! in fact do not like it, but it is there! may be I should have said shrewd instead of clever, which may imply that I like it.

[Jimjim]

OK am obviously bangin my head on a brick wall.

You compare foreigners checking there Email with people who live and work here 9 months of the year.

Who is more extreme?

Oh and by the way I did not say I liked the law! in fact do not like it, but it is there! may be I should have said shrewd instead of clever, which may imply that I like it.

Who are you talking to? I never compared "foreigners checking there Email with people who live and work here 9 months of the year" so I guess you're not talking to me. Ah, I see you're talking to bkkmike. It's funny you say that bkkmike takes things to extremes yet you yourself say that Thailand does "not want any foreign people working here in any form or manner! full stop." That's an extreme view my friend, as it's not true.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Jimjim

[monkfish]

Ok you got me! that is a mistake what I did mean to say is.

The reason, they do not want any foreign people working here WITHOUT A WORK PERMIT in any form or manner!

Jimjim, Are you sure the law is only for Illegal workers taking work away from Thais?

What is a bogus company and what does buying a house have to do with it?

[Jimjim]

For bogus company and buying a house, please read the whole thread.

The intent of the law is to protect Thai workers, yes. Law = writing + precedent.

Nobody has given any proof of a precedent established showing that the proper Thai authorities are worried about the kind of working described in this thread. In fact, there are some cases to the contrary. Legal advice has given both opinions, but if they say you need a work permit, then they are just looking at the letter of the law as they can see it, but if asked, will admit that this is very likely not a problem or concern.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Jimjim

[Paul MBMG]

an interesting debate is currently ongoing (Bangkok Post etc) about whether reading emails on your BlackBerry/Texts on your phone constitutes work; this has huge employment conditions implications beyind immigration such as staff benefit covers, hours of work etc

The reason that so much is conjecture is that there is so little definition of whether specific acts are employment or not - remuneration is however not a test as you need a work permit for either paid or unpaid work performed in Thailand. Precedent would be best indicator but not entirely reliable - thousands of visitors come to Thailand every year for conferences. This is widely known, is usually declared on immigration forms and doesn't require a visa. You could probably assume that currently immigration don't regard it as work because they don't require a type B visa to attend a conference. That doesn't mean that The Lab Dept have to agree with them or even the Rev Dept but no-one wants to kill this particular golden egg laying goose right now.....

[yeti]

an interesting debate is currently ongoing (Bangkok Post etc) about whether reading emails on your BlackBerry/Texts on your phone constitutes work; this has huge employment conditions implications beyind immigration such as staff benefit covers, hours of work etc

I don't remember reading anything about this in English language newspapers, do you have a link?

To the OP (I think we somehow forgot about her along the way ) you have 2 choices:

- stay under the radar and get a visa for non business reasons (tourism, family, education...). In this case you continue to pay tax in England or you could even ask a tax specialist about registering your company in a tax free offshore territory, such as the British Virgin Islands, and not paying tax in Englang nor Thailand. Never heard of anybody getting in troubles like this, but illegal.

- go to a lawyer, create a company, pay tax in Thailand. Monkfish posted how much this would cost you. But still you need to understand this solution has its own risks as this is not 100% legal.

[davejonesbkk]

This is pathetic now, reading emails on your blackberry, afraid to cut your own lawn! Come on people get a grip for Christs sake!

Do they have access to the internet down at the Labour Department? If they do I bet they're all sat around the screen now on this threading pointing and laughing hysterically "Look at these stupid farangs all in flap cos they think we're going to arrest them for trimming their hedges!!! Quick! Let's make an amendment to the laws to see what kind of paranoid state that will get them in!!"

[monkfish]

One thing that is really puzzling me about this discussion.

Until now most if not all advise given from Senior members to the OP is break the law.

Is this really the way forward in Thailand? May be it is and may be in 10 years I will be giving the same advice, not sure time will tell.

I have had advice recently from a Thai friend working in the field which boils down to this.

The chances of being caught are 50/50 but likely to increase due new measures clamp down measures being introduced.

After being caught the consequences will most certainly involve deportation. My adviser was Thai and did not involve money.

However they probably just want me to go the right way, imagine the implications should I get caught!

What would interest me is if any of the Senior advisers on the forum have personal experience in the matter at all.

Would you advise a friend or family member to do the same?

Still not sure why setting up a company to do the work is not 100% legal.

Anyway good look even if you are Illegal! and please do post any experiences or cases on the matter if you have them.

[monkfish]

This is pathetic now, reading emails on your blackberry, afraid to cut your own lawn! Come on people get a grip for Christs sake!

Do they have access to the internet down at the Labour Department? If they do I bet they're all sat around the screen now on this threading pointing and laughing hysterically "Look at these stupid farangs all in flap cos they think we're going to arrest them for trimming their hedges!!! Quick! Let's make an amendment to the laws to see what kind of paranoid state that will get them in!!"

This discussion is not about mowing the lawn, or did you miss the real point? may be just doing a bit of nit picking where you can? Can you share your opinion on the real point of the disscusion if you have one? For more inforation see the first post!

[davejonesbkk]

Yes I am nit picking and will continue to nit pick when people say moronic things like I mentioned above.

This has been done to death on TV and we will still be doing it to death 12 months from now with the exact same answers.

Oh and please do tell us what these new 'measures' are......

[yeti]

Still not sure why setting up a company to do the work is not 100% legal.

Having nominee shareholders can be considered illegal (see one of the cases against Thaksin).

Declaring that you employ Thai people when in fact you don't is illegal.

If labour department comes to the address you stated as your company's and see that it's in fact your home and that the Thai employees you are supposed to employ are not there you can be in trouble. Bigger or smaller troubles than not having a company, I don't know.

Anyway, I hope the OP understands that all she can get from this forum is a list of her possibilities, only a lawyer engaging his responsability would be qualified to give an advice.

[monkfish]

OK see what you mean.

The solution I had was to use real Thai people as share holders and not pretend.

My company is set up at home, the labor department have already visited us and there was no problem.

[stub]

It all depends on the definition of 'work' being used by the judge, which is certainly not the same as the definition the bush lawyers here have or the definition of people who have a vested interest in getting you to set up some sort of legal structure in Thailand. Telecommuting without a work permit is no more illegal than someone without a work permit calling their stock broker or turning up at a trade show or selling a watch on ebay. How illegal that is, nobody knows (but there are plenty of opinions). And it doesn't help that the law is in Thai but we are trying to interpret it in English.

You are not going to get a clear official answer because nobody cares. When I came here in the same situation, the consulate gave me a Type-O Other after explaining the concept of telecommuting to them. A friend here in Thailand started working with me. He wanted to keep his B visa and work permit and pay taxes (trying for permanent residency at the time). He gave up after several months of running around and moved to a Type-O too. It has not been worth anyones while to sort the laws out, and the gov officials would rather you stop bothering them. Same in many countries.

It is possible to start up a company and all the hoops that one needs to jump through and waste a lot of money, with the end result being that you are more likely to end up in legal trouble because of all the forms and paperwork and restrictions etc. Don't go shouting and waving red flags. Don't make waves and everyone is happy. Except the lawyers.

[kudroz]

Why does everyone say that telecommuting from Thailand is a grey area? It is not. Telecommuting from Thailand and not paying taxes to the Thai tax authorities on the income is illegal. Telecommuting from Thailand and not having a work permit is Illegal. The law is very clear and simple to understand.

Regardless if you have a work permit or not, tax on such income has to be remitted to the Thai tax authorities. One does not need a work permit to pay taxes in Thailand. The fact that you are physically present in Thailand while performing an activity that generates income, means that this income is deemed of Thai source and tax has to be paid on such income. If you are also still a resident in the UK for tax purposes, you can apply for a tax credit in the UK for the taxes you've paid here in Thailand.

Occasional hotel stay where your are shaking hands and replying to e-mails is not subject to taxation as per the Thai tax code (not carrying on business (office, place of business, etc). But living here and carrying on business (telecommuting) means that you are liable to pay taxes in the Kingdom.

You might want to try your regional revenue department office and ask to speak with an auditor or someone in authority (don't ask the poor clerk at the front).

I don't think that the Ministry of Labour puts a high priority on foreigner telecommuting from Thailand, as this does "not" harm Thailand. Although, the Revenue Department wants to collect taxes; it is irrelevant to them if you have a work permit or not. What they care about is if you are performing work from Thailand and being remunerated for such work. A simple visit to your local Revenue Department will confirm this - I've been there, done that.

[stub]

Why does everyone say that telecommuting from Thailand is a grey area? It is not. Telecommuting from Thailand and not having a work permit is Illegal. The law is very clear and simple to understand.

[ trimmed stuff relating to paying tax, not work permits ]

Its a grey area because its a catch-22. You can't work here without a work permit, but it is impossible to get a work permit because your work for an offshore entity (or self employed in many cases). It is also a grey area because 'work' is so ambiguous a term, at least in English. I don't know if I'm working here or not and I highly doubt the law here has been updated to cope with people employed full time by offshore entities who have no business relationship with Thailand whatsoever. Am I working here? I've had mixed responses from people who should know. If the answer is 'yes', then it is impossible for me to legally do my job from here - the laws just don't allow it. Others say no though because my employer is offshore with no business dealings with Thailand whatsoever, all my income is offshore, everything I produce is offshore, I don't have an office, I don't have a company, I don't have employees. To them, I'm not working in Thailand.

I believe you when it comes to paying taxes though, and it is interesting that you can pay taxes without a work permit. I wasn't aware you could pay tax on income earned offshore into offshore bank accounts. I thought you could only pay tax on money earned in Thailand, requiring a Thai employer and work permit. Does the same go for other offshore income such as rental income, bank interest, investment dividents, lottery winnings etc.?

[Jimjim]

Why does everyone say that telecommuting from Thailand is a grey area? It is not. Telecommuting from Thailand and not paying taxes to the Thai tax authorities on the income is illegal. Telecommuting from Thailand and not having a work permit is Illegal. The law is very clear and simple to understand.

It is a gray area because people go down and try to get it worked out and end up just getting confused and getting no answers. Most people who've tried to get legal have found out that the authorities don't want to bother with their unique situation. As for taxes, at least for the OP she is British so she does not need to pay taxes in Thailand at all as she will already pay taxes in England on her income and there is a double taxation agreement between the two countries. In that situation, it's almost pointless to go to the Thai authorities because you won't end up paying them anyway according to the agreement.

[wasabi]

What's the best visa option for someone telecommuting without a work permit, assuming the Thai authorities truly can't be bothered to make it legal or illegal.

[RAZZELL]

It is also a grey area because 'work' is so ambiguous a term, at least in English. I don't know if I'm working here or not and I highly doubt the law here has been updated to cope with people employed full time by offshore entities who have no business relationship with Thailand whatsoever. Am I working here?

Well, if you're not working...how do you make any money? Tooth fairy?

RAZZ

Edited July 15, 2008 by RAZZELL