Pattaya Property Prices

[whatsoever]

Take a walk into the new View Talay 6 on Beach/2nd road - completed December last year. Ask for a view of the floor plans which show the vacant unsold units. Floor after floor, after floor, with all units unsold. Possibly 75% still forsale from the developer with a further 20% resales. Prime location

[ps21]

Strong demand for the new builds in good locations is supporting prices - the new condo demand is driven by wealthy foreigners (mainly Northern European and Russian) who want a holiday apartment - they mainly buy new because its simple, they have more trust in dealing with larger builders than buying from unknown individuals, lower maintenance needs (if you are only in Pattaya a few weeks or months per year you are unlikely to want or to know how to go about renovating a second hand place).

Be warned, re-selling a few years later may prove very difficult. The market for second hand propertyis extremely limited for older condos and houses in anything except the most prime locations. With the sheer volume of new builds coming onto the market, selling older places will remain extremely tough for years ahead. Also, the market is very fickle and changes quickly. My advice - its a buyers market and there is huge choice if you have cash, research and look at lots before you decide, make offers of up to half of the asking for the less prime older places, but stick to prime locations if you can afford it (town, Jomtien beach areas, away from Sukhumvit and definitely not in East Pattaya if you want to have any chance of re-selling quickly).

[PattayaParent]

Strong demand for the new builds in good locations is supporting prices - the new condo demand is driven by wealthy foreigners (mainly Northern European and Russian) who want a holiday apartment - they mainly buy new because its simple, they have more trust in dealing with larger builders than buying from unknown individuals, lower maintenance needs (if you are only in Pattaya a few weeks or months per year you are unlikely to want or to know how to go about renovating a second hand place).

Be warned, re-selling a few years later may prove very difficult. The market for second hand propertyis extremely limited for older condos and houses in anything except the most prime locations. With the sheer volume of new builds coming onto the market, selling older places will remain extremely tough for years ahead. Also, the market is very fickle and changes quickly. My advice - its a buyers market and there is huge choice if you have cash, research and look at lots before you decide, make offers of up to half of the asking for the less prime older places, but stick to prime locations if you can afford it (town, Jomtien beach areas, away from Sukhumvit and definitely not in East Pattaya if you want to have any chance of re-selling quickly).

First post and he's an expert in property in Pattya?

Sounds like another estate agent to me.

So with all these wealthy forigners investing what's happening to the other 51% condo ownership that must be owned by Thais? Don't the wealthy Thais have better places to invest in than a Farang Ghetto of Pattaya / Jomtien?

And aren't the 100k+ prices of new bulid properties pushing up the resale values of the 50k older properties?

[thaiman]

Strong demand for the new builds in good locations is supporting prices - the new condo demand is driven by wealthy foreigners (mainly Northern European and Russian) who want a holiday apartment - they mainly buy new because its simple, they have more trust in dealing with larger builders than buying from unknown individuals, lower maintenance needs (if you are only in Pattaya a few weeks or months per year you are unlikely to want or to know how to go about renovating a second hand place).

Be warned, re-selling a few years later may prove very difficult. The market for second hand propertyis extremely limited for older condos and houses in anything except the most prime locations. With the sheer volume of new builds coming onto the market, selling older places will remain extremely tough for years ahead. Also, the market is very fickle and changes quickly. My advice - its a buyers market and there is huge choice if you have cash, research and look at lots before you decide, make offers of up to half of the asking for the less prime older places, but stick to prime locations if you can afford it (town, Jomtien beach areas, away from Sukhumvit and definitely not in East Pattaya if you want to have any chance of re-selling quickly).

what's happening to the other 51% condo ownership that must be owned by Thais?

Is the 51% thing you mentioned thai law? so all condos built in thailand must alot 51% of the units to thai people? How does this work?

[Basil B]

Is the 51% thing you mentioned thai law? so all condos built in thailand must alot 51% of the units to thai people? How does this work?

actually it is the other way round, only 49% can be sold and registered in the name of non Thais, you can buy through the back door with a dummy company with the required dummy Thai partners. but really there is normally only one dummy involved in these transactions and he/she is not Thai, an estate agent or a lawyer.

When I was buying my condo I visited many estate agents, many were expats, all the expat estate agents wanted to show me property that I could not buy in my own name, I went to one which was 100% Thai through them I purchased property in my own name, no problem.

I read many threads where people buy in the name of a company, they have to produce accounts every year, presume they have to pay their dummy partners a dividend every year in a company that make no profit and the government keeps changing the rules to block this type of ownership.

BB

[thaiman]

Is the 51% thing you mentioned thai law? so all condos built in thailand must alot 51% of the units to thai people? How does this work?

actually it is the other way round, only 49% can be sold and registered in the name of non Thais, you can buy through the back door with a dummy company with the required dummy Thai partners. but really there is normally only one dummy involved in these transactions and he/she is not Thai, an estate agent or a lawyer.

When I was buying my condo I visited many estate agents, many were expats, all the expat estate agents wanted to show me property that I could not buy in my own name, I went to one which was 100% Thai through them I purchased property in my own name, no problem.

Sounds shady! Wonder how many people have lost out when buying a condo.

[PattayaParent]

If you have a look at the Pattaya Info "Newspaper" (that's the multilingual Paper you get for free at places like Friendship) you will see how Agents try to push prices. Every condo/house advertised in that paper (it's just one Agent) is overpriced compared with the allready overinflated prices other Agents are asking. For example for rentals going for around 10 - 15'000 Baht, they ask 5 - to 10'000 Baht more then others.

I've also heard that something like 40% of what you pay for Condo rentals goes to the agent, i.e. if you pay 25k to rent a property, the owner only actually gets 15k. These cowboys in the Pattaya Info must be getting MORE than the owners! Pure Greed.

The agents only get 8% of the rental value.

[fredKroket]

Is the 51% thing you mentioned thai law? so all condos built in thailand must alot 51% of the units to thai people? How does this work?

actually it is the other way round, only 49% can be sold and registered in the name of non Thais, you can buy through the back door with a dummy company with the required dummy Thai partners. but really there is normally only one dummy involved in these transactions and he/she is not Thai, an estate agent or a lawyer.

When I was buying my condo I visited many estate agents, many were expats, all the expat estate agents wanted to show me property that I could not buy in my own name, I went to one which was 100% Thai through them I purchased property in my own name, no problem.

I read many threads where people buy in the name of a company, they have to produce accounts every year, presume they have to pay their dummy partners a dividend every year in a company that make no profit and the government keeps changing the rules to block this type of ownership.

BB

Isn't this the same way most farang buy houses too? Unless they are even more stupid and put it in their wives or girlfriend name? There are no dividends to pay because the company is not trading and because not trading only a minimal amount of administration charge each year because no tax on company. The government actually make it simpler becasue now they only need three director of holding company, not like before you need 7 or 8. The goverment before try to make it difficult because of Thaksin and his 'clever' company structures, but now new goverment make easier the same way many farang by house in Thailand for decades.

[Basil B]

Is the 51% thing you mentioned thai law? so all condos built in thailand must alot 51% of the units to thai people? How does this work?

actually it is the other way round, only 49% can be sold and registered in the name of non Thais, you can buy through the back door with a dummy company with the required dummy Thai partners. but really there is normally only one dummy involved in these transactions and he/she is not Thai, an estate agent or a lawyer.

When I was buying my condo I visited many estate agents, many were expats, all the expat estate agents wanted to show me property that I could not buy in my own name, I went to one which was 100% Thai through them I purchased property in my own name, no problem.

I read many threads where people buy in the name of a company, they have to produce accounts every year, presume they have to pay their dummy partners a dividend every year in a company that make no profit and the government keeps changing the rules to block this type of ownership.

BB

Isn't this the same way most farang buy houses too? Unless they are even more stupid and put it in their wives or girlfriend name? There are no dividends to pay because the company is not trading and because not trading only a minimal amount of administration charge each year because no tax on company. The government actually make it simpler becasue now they only need three director of holding company, not like before you need 7 or 8. The goverment before try to make it difficult because of Thaksin and his 'clever' company structures, but now new goverment make easier the same way many farang by house in Thailand for decades.

What I was trying to say was, do you not have to pay these "Dummy" directors a retainer, plus Agents and lawyer probably getting a cut.

If the government really welcomed non Thais to purchase houses, condos and land in their own name they would scrap the the 49% rule?

BB

[fredKroket]

Is the 51% thing you mentioned thai law? so all condos built in thailand must alot 51% of the units to thai people? How does this work?

actually it is the other way round, only 49% can be sold and registered in the name of non Thais, you can buy through the back door with a dummy company with the required dummy Thai partners. but really there is normally only one dummy involved in these transactions and he/she is not Thai, an estate agent or a lawyer.

When I was buying my condo I visited many estate agents, many were expats, all the expat estate agents wanted to show me property that I could not buy in my own name, I went to one which was 100% Thai through them I purchased property in my own name, no problem.

I read many threads where people buy in the name of a company, they have to produce accounts every year, presume they have to pay their dummy partners a dividend every year in a company that make no profit and the government keeps changing the rules to block this type of ownership.

BB

Isn't this the same way most farang buy houses too? Unless they are even more stupid and put it in their wives or girlfriend name? There are no dividends to pay because the company is not trading and because not trading only a minimal amount of administration charge each year because no tax on company. The government actually make it simpler becasue now they only need three director of holding company, not like before you need 7 or 8. The goverment before try to make it difficult because of Thaksin and his 'clever' company structures, but now new goverment make easier the same way many farang by house in Thailand for decades.

What I was trying to say was, do you not have to pay these "Dummy" directors a retainer, plus Agents and lawyer probably getting a cut.

If the government really welcomed non Thais to purchase houses, condos and land in their own name they would scrap the the 49% rule?

BB

not always "Dummy" directors, can be a friend, a wife, or girlfriend but because the share structure is less for the farang he can own 49% of the higher value shares, which worth more than 51% of lower priced shares.

If the house worth 10 mio the 49% of the shares could value 9.9 mio and the 51% value 100,000. Sure the lawyer set up a company which cost maybe 25K baht, after that he get nothing. An agent may get a big commission if he can sell a property in company or Thai name, because Foreign name always sell quick. If you buy condo in Thai name you can get big discounts and when you sell there no tax to pay because land office not involve, just transfer ownership of company.

They scrap the 49% rule before so why not again? I think in soon future we see a 50+50 year lease come in to compete other country around here. I would buy condo like this, think what condo look like in 100 year! Look what Jomtien Complex look like now!!!

[Pattaya46]

The agents only get 8% of the rental value.

My previous landlord told me :

Agent fee = 1 month for contract of more than 3 months (about 8.3%)

Agent fee = 1/2 month for contract up to 3 months (about 4.2%)

An agent may get a big commission if he can sell a property in company or Thai name,

because Foreign name always sell quick.

I know some condos in foreign name for sell for more than 2 years...

If you buy condo in Thai name ...

when you sell there no tax to pay because land office not involve.

Tax at Land Office is now only 1% of declared value,

only 5.000 baht/million if fifty-fifty buyer/seller. Not too much.

Pattaya46

[Naam]

The government actually make it simpler becasue now they only need three director of holding company, not like before you need 7 or 8. The goverment before try to make it difficult because of Thaksin and his 'clever' company structures, but now new goverment make easier the same way many farang by house in Thailand for decades.

if you have no idea what you are talking about you should be quiet. you are mixing up directors with shareholders and in another of your postings propose something impossible, namely assigning different values to shares. people ask for advice in Thaivisa NOT for rubbish!

[Naam]

Having just returned from Pattaya yesterday I can honestly say that those who buy property there will get what they deserve.

What would that be exactly?

people who buy property there get property there... i presume

[PattayaParent]

The agents only get 8% of the rental value.

My previous landlord told me :

Agent fee = 1 month for contract of more than 3 months (about 8.3%)

Agent fee = 1/2 month for contract up to 3 months (about 4.2%)

I just rounded it to 8%

[Basil B]

The government actually make it simpler becasue now they only need three director of holding company, not like before you need 7 or 8. The goverment before try to make it difficult because of Thaksin and his 'clever' company structures, but now new goverment make easier the same way many farang by house in Thailand for decades.

if you have no idea what you are talking about you should be quiet. you are mixing up directors with shareholders and in another of your postings propose something impossible, namely assigning different values to shares. people ask for advice in Thaivisa NOT for rubbish!

agreed, he just sounds like an Estate Agent, 5% of a few million is a lot where Real Estate Agents seem to be unregulated.

BB

Edited August 5, 2008 by Basil B

[sotsira]

QUOTE (fredKroket @ 2008-08-05 13:41:56) If you buy condo in Thai name ...

when you sell there no tax to pay because land office not involve.

QUOTE (Pattaya46)Tax at Land Office is now only 1% of declared value,

only 5.000 baht/million if fifty-fifty buyer/seller. Not too much.

Pattaya46

Just to correct the above statement:

When buying a property in your own name (Thai or farang) You need to pay a "Transfer Registration Fee" at the land office which is normally 2% of the value that the land office estimates (not what the buyer & seller declare) This fee has been reduced to 0.01%

The other fee is the "Special Business Tax" which is normally 3.3%. This has also been reduced to 0.11%

The reduced rates will stay in effect until March28th 2009.

These temporary new rates have practically eliminated any tax payments made to the land office when property sales are processed between the buyer and seller.

I've just purchased a condo for 3.8M and the land office charged me 1000bt and that was for 2 title deeds as the condo was a double unit, otherwise it would have been 500bt!

sotsira.