Noppadon Announces Resignation

[h90]

whatever... he traded a temple for a casino.

Fair point, except that he didn't have a temple to trade.

But Cambodia didn't had a temple as well, specially no stairs to it. Why making it top secret in a rush if there is no trade?

Cambodia has had the Temple since 1962. That the entrance is on the Thai side - whilst being strange - is irrelevent. A Japanese company has put forward a proposal to build a cable car up to the site from the Cambodian side.

No doubt in exchange for a casino.

Secrecy in diplomacy is the norm, not the exception. That the negotiations had to be done by this month has been explained countless times.

That there was secrecy with regards to Cabinet approval was undoubtedly wrong.

A temple without entrance is nothing, with cable car? An old temple with a modern cable car, how does that look like????

While the tourists going up with the cable car thailand can use the stairs to burn waste if they want.

So Cambodia don't own anything of value without Thailand.

Secrecy and corruption is the norm in diplomacy no question, but if the norm or not it is not good.

I missed that why the negotiations had to be done by this month! Why? Why not 2009 or 2010 or 2035?

The minutes of meeting of the government are missing and can't be found anymore....the next proof that something is wrong with it.

[sriracha john]

I fully accept that I could be wrong on my interpretation as did not study International Law and have never pleaded a case. However, as a member of the unwashed masses, that's my take on it.

whatever... he traded a temple for a casino.

this nopeadope is not an idiot like those around him- he is actually very intelligent man with rational reasoning abilities - therefore he is able to clearly understand both sides and make logical decisions. because of having both left and right brain activity he also understand exactly what he did as a choice of his own free will and therefore will burn for it in the seven lower hells, being aware of the process the whole time.

*digicam footage of that'd make a great selling, "Noppadope Rots In hel_l For Eternity", DVD*...

...sarm gao gao baht, buy 2 get 1 free

poor Sisyphus.......

the point being that they will pick off every body around Dr. Thaksin until those remaining start to get the point that the 'boss' cannot protect them and they will go down too. then Dr. Thaksin closest will turn on him at the moment of truth in order to save their own skins in traditional fashion.

This is the sort of woman that it'd be very wise not to piss off:

especially after in-your-face cavorting with this woman:

[Bagwan]

Noppadon announces resignation

But he said he had to resign because of he could not withstand the political and emotion storms, which have been battering him.

When the going gets tough, the tough get going. He is obviously a man of straw.

His appointment in the first place was proof, as if any were needed, that his nibs and his baggage are still calling the shots.

[Plus]

But given that the new map is within the boundaries of the ICJ judgement, Cambodia in theory wouldn't have even needed any consultation with Thailand at all. Because there was consultation, we happen to know that the listing doesn't infringe on any Thai soil (approved by both the NSC and the Royal Thai Survey).

That's the kind of approval I was talking about - without it no one could say the new map was undisputed. If Royal Thai Survey had said "Hold your hourses, we need more time", that would have been enough to postpone the listing until next year.

Cambodia might have had enough members on the panel to vote it in anyway, but that's again Noppadon's responsibility. He spent three months supporting Cambodians instead of putting pressure on panel members to delay. Belated court injunction had no effect on their opinion, and you are right - it did more damage to Thailand's credibility than communique itself.

On cooperation:

Joint management should include areas far beyond the approved map. In fact Abhisit is expressing concerns that the management map will most certainly cover disputed areas. That map doesn't exist yet, it couldn't have been included in the communique.

Now, seven country panel overseeing management on Thai side will not be liked here, there's no chance of that working smoothly.

[Prakanong]

But given that the new map is within the boundaries of the ICJ judgement, Cambodia in theory wouldn't have even needed any consultation with Thailand at all. Because there was consultation, we happen to know that the listing doesn't infringe on any Thai soil (approved by both the NSC and the Royal Thai Survey).

That's the kind of approval I was talking about - without it no one could say the new map was undisputed. If Royal Thai Survey had said "Hold your hourses, we need more time", that would have been enough to postpone the listing until next year.

Cambodia might have had enough members on the panel to vote it in anyway, but that's again Noppadon's responsibility. He spent three months supporting Cambodians instead of putting pressure on panel members to delay. Belated court injunction had no effect on their opinion, and you are right - it did more damage to Thailand's credibility than communique itself.

On cooperation:

Joint management should include areas far beyond the approved map. In fact Abhisit is expressing concerns that the management map will most certainly cover disputed areas. That map doesn't exist yet, it couldn't have been included in the communique.

Now, seven country panel overseeing management on Thai side will not be liked here, there's no chance of that working smoothly.

Is the Temple Thai or Khmer?

[Meerkat]

But given that the new map is within the boundaries of the ICJ judgement, Cambodia in theory wouldn't have even needed any consultation with Thailand at all. Because there was consultation, we happen to know that the listing doesn't infringe on any Thai soil (approved by both the NSC and the Royal Thai Survey).

That's the kind of approval I was talking about - without it no one could say the new map was undisputed. If Royal Thai Survey had said "Hold your hourses, we need more time", that would have been enough to postpone the listing until next year.

Cambodia didn't need the RTS or the NSC to approve the new map, given that the map used is within the ICJ one. In fact, given that the UNESCO convention allows disputed sites to be listed anyway without prejudicing any territorial rights (Article 11/3 I think) it's a moot point (legally if not emotionally). Cambodia could bypass Thailand all together, go to UNESCO and say, "Every time we get close to a deal Thailand suddenly wriggles out, and we're worried what's left of the Temple will fall down without your help." There is precedent for UNESCO listing a disputed site - remember that in their eyes, the whole point of a listing is to protect these areas.

Cambodia might have had enough members on the panel to vote it in anyway, but that's again Noppadon's responsibility. He spent three months supporting Cambodians instead of putting pressure on panel members to delay. Belated court injunction had no effect on their opinion, and you are right - it did more damage to Thailand's credibility than communique itself.

A few months to try and undo more than a decade of campaigning to the selectors (the bulk of it done since they stepped up the process in 06/07) is IMO a task too hard to fairly blame anybody on the Thai side for not managing to do (regardless of which party had won the elections). Given that the (at least publicly stated) line taken by the MFA/Thai WHC during the previous government has been one of conciliation and support implies that it would be the incorrect stance to take anyway. But I guess that is a point of view based upon whether one thinks that Thailand wanted to try and do a deal with Cambodia or just stonewall them ad infinitum - one that I think we disagree on. The longer the site doesn't have protection though, the more potential there is for site degredation - everyone loses.

On cooperation:

Joint management should include areas far beyond the approved map. In fact Abhisit is expressing concerns that the management map will most certainly cover disputed areas. That map doesn't exist yet, it couldn't have been included in the communique.

Now, seven country panel overseeing management on Thai side will not be liked here, there's no chance of that working smoothly.

Abhisit is right to worry about co-management; the communique covered that, but there is now a vacuum with it gone. Cambodia has until February I believe to draw up those plans otherwise the WHC will effectively take it out of everyone's hands. I think the best way forward would be for the new FM to try and get Abhisit on-side (and explain it better to the public than Noppadom), submit the communique for parliamentary approvement (and there may be some changes to make) and then use it as the road-map going forward. The Dems have scored their political points already and there's no time to play nationalistic silly-buggers anymore.

Now that the issue's been forced, reckon both sides can work on this together for the good of the country and the site?

[Meerkat]

Is the Temple Thai or Khmer?

I've noticed that the Thai press have stopped calling it Khmer and started calling it Hindu.

[Prakanong]

Is the Temple Thai or Khmer?

I've noticed that the Thai press have stopped calling it Khmer and started calling it Hindu.

LOL - your answer above is comprehensive but it will not stop the idiots from making it a Thaksin issue on this site.

The Thai's have never had a civilisation to match the Khmer era its as if America was claiming the Aztec sites - why they want to usurp it is pathetic - the Thai's have never done anything - name one invention, one nobel prize winner, how many patents (including the lie we can not speak of) - naff all and never will

[h90]

Is the Temple Thai or Khmer?

I've noticed that the Thai press have stopped calling it Khmer and started calling it Hindu.

LOL - your answer above is comprehensive but it will not stop the idiots from making it a Thaksin issue on this site.

The Thai's have never had a civilisation to match the Khmer era its as if America was claiming the Aztec sites - why they want to usurp it is pathetic - the Thai's have never done anything - name one invention, one nobel prize winner, how many patents (including the lie we can not speak of) - naff all and never will

Thats nonsense. Thailand did not loose it to the Khmer empire they loose it to Cambodia. As the countries had wars the borders changed all the times.

With this kind of arguments, greek, Italy, Austria and Germany could claim all Europe, as they controlled it a long time (Just think for the Roman empire, Rome controlled Germany when the Germanys were in the trees)....

[bannork]

All you guy's with the vote in Thailand are really concerned about all this but have no memory of the past - ie dead in the streets in 73,76 and 92

If it comes to that I hope to see you all on the front lines!

Its sad to see a country with potential get left so far behind

BTW: Thailand trying to claim the temple is pathetic - it was built by the Khmer - when the Thai's were still in tree's - thai laves might have had a hand in it though

You really shouldn't post when you get excited, your spelling is all over the place. Still, living in Singapore. a 'country' not noted for its culture or nature, resorting to overseas websites must be a stimulating,pleasant respite.

Back to the point, I believe the Khom, the predecessors of the Khmers built the temple, that empire eventually reached Lopburi, Pimai, near Khorat, but of course eventually it collapsed and the Thais took over. I don't see the Cambodians demanding the return of Korat or Lopburi back, so the argument they built it so it must be returned, is not the issue.

Geographically the temple is plainly in modern day Thailand, access only being available from the Thai side, overlooking the Cambodian plains below.

I'd love to know the historical background, some Thais told me Thailand may have offered Khao Pra Wiharn to the French as a sop to stop any more French demands on Thai territory in the area and nothing more was thought about it until Cambodia won it in The World Court in 1962. The thinking behind the verdict that because Thailand didn't object to the French map therefore they accepted it is seen as illogical by Thais for how many knew of the French map all those years? And who expected Cambodia to go to The World Court over the issue?

But I wonder why Thailand did not appeal? Using the watershed as a guideline the temple is plainly in Thai territory.

[Meerkat]

I know absolutely nothing about the history of the Khmer, but I found this recent article which says, "Preah Vihear, like Angkor Wat and all those other ‘Khmer’ temples, aren’t really Khmer or Cambodian. They were built by an entirely different people called the Khom, who unfortunately are no longer with us and have been replaced by a people who call themselves Cambodians and lay spurious claim to someone else’s heritage. Trouble is, it’s only Thai history that seems to know about these Khom." No idea what sources he has to make the claim though.

Regarding why the 1962-1972 governments didn't appeal, I think it's because Article 61.1 of the ICJ Statute states, "An application for revision of a judgment may be made only when it is based upon the discovery of some fact of such a nature as to be a decisive factor, which fact was, when the judgment was given, unknown to the Court and also to the party claiming revision, always provided that such ignorance was not due to negligence."

So basically an appeal can only take place with new evidence. The law can be an ass sometimes (but not Thai law of course...that could see me put in contempt).

[Shah Jahan]

whatever... he traded a temple for a casino.

this nopeadope is not an idiot like those around him- he is actually very intelligent man with rational reasoning abilities - therefore he is able to clearly understand both sides and make logical decisions. because of having both left and right brain activity he also understand exactly what he did as a choice of his own free will and therefore will burn for it in the seven lower hells, being aware of the process the whole time.

*digicam footage of that'd make a great selling, "Noppadope Rots In hel_l For Eternity", DVD*...

...sarm gao gao baht, buy 2 get 1 free

Maybe we could get a Nong Natt special thrown in for free.

But really I love when they take the special VCDs and then dub Thai music and Karkoke over them. Maybe we could do Noppeadope roasting in the seven lower hells to Lydia singing about her lover who never calls.

[plachon]

Just goes to show what an Oxbridge education does to a fellow:

Joker / Buffalo - Kajor Ngorngae by Mor, Krungtepturakit, July 11, 2008

At the top: The image of Siam Foreign Ministry at the world stage meeting

Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama is portrayed on the left as a "joker" and on the right as a buffalo (considered an insult in the Thai-language world).

Left: Before the meeting

On file he is holding: Khao Preah Vihear

Right: After the meeting!!

More newspaper headlines and editorials - Poojadkuan columns - Editorial cartoon from the southern separatists - Kao Lao cartoons

For cartoon please follow trail to 2Bangkok.com or Krunthepturakit newspaper

While some consider him a product of his British education in the hallowed halls of Oxford, one can see that he clearly believed his own destiny was best placed by serving a single family and abandoning such qualities as honesty, integrity and service to one's nation on leaving Isis. Not a typical graduate I believe, although the label "funny" definitely fits.

I guess he's quite an ornate buffalo as well.

Edited July 13, 2008 by plachon

[Plus]

Meerkat, we don't know the exact policy of the previous government regarding the listing, but one thing is sure - Noppadon has changed it, with disastrous results. What would have happened if he let the previous team to continue negotiations is anybody's guess, but one thing is sure - it wouldn't have ended so badly.

It is extremely silly to lay blame on junta's government after Noppadon personally fired their man, took charge, and even patted himself on the back shortly before everything went south.

As for linking this case to Thaksin - it's a fuc_king elephant in the room, Noppadon himself was there on the day Thaksin's investment was announced. But let's pretend (for Prakhanong) that these two men don't know each other.

Lots of people and cultures existed in this land, this particular temple was dedicated to Hindu God Shiva, Thais do not have gods of their own, and neither do Cambodians. There's nothing wrong with calling it a Hindu temple.

The word Hindu didn't exist in those days, btw.

I'm not sure present day Cambodians are the real ancestors of the Khmer civilisation. They could be the people who destroyed it. After all even Angkor Wat was just a meaningless ruin for them for centuries until their figured out they can make money out of it.

Thais, on the other hand, have always kept to their roots, they won't declare themselves jews if they suddenly find an ancient sinagogue here.

[h90]

Meerkat, we don't know the exact policy of the previous government regarding the listing, but one thing is sure - Noppadon has changed it, with disastrous results. What would have happened if he let the previous team to continue negotiations is anybody's guess, but one thing is sure - it wouldn't have ended so badly.

It is extremely silly to lay blame on junta's government after Noppadon personally fired their man, took charge, and even patted himself on the back shortly before everything went south.

As for linking this case to Thaksin - it's a fuc_king elephant in the room, Noppadon himself was there on the day Thaksin's investment was announced. But let's pretend (for Prakhanong) that these two men don't know each other.

Lots of people and cultures existed in this land, this particular temple was dedicated to Hindu God Shiva, Thais do not have gods of their own, and neither do Cambodians. There's nothing wrong with calling it a Hindu temple.

The word Hindu didn't exist in those days, btw.

I'm not sure present day Cambodians are the real ancestors of the Khmer civilisation. They could be the people who destroyed it. After all even Angkor Wat was just a meaningless ruin for them for centuries until their figured out they can make money out of it.

Thais, on the other hand, have always kept to their roots, they won't declare themselves jews if they suddenly find an ancient sinagogue here.

And whats wrong with saying: forget about the past we are doing it together: you have the temple we the stairs...we join and rip off the tourists....here the mcdonalds, there the casino, etc etc as usual....

or you make alone what you want but we don't support it.

As for the evidence linking it to Thaksin.... it is more a stampede of elephants......

[Meerkat]

Meerkat, we don't know the exact policy of the previous government regarding the listing, but one thing is sure - Noppadon has changed it, with disastrous results. What would have happened if he let the previous team to continue negotiations is anybody's guess, but one thing is sure - it wouldn't have ended so badly.

If you don't know what the policy was, how can you know that he changed it? Plus, you were the one that brought up the argument that facts don't matter in this case, not me. The publicly stated policy of the junta was to get the deal done this month with Thai support; Noppadom changed nothing. Cambodia changed their bid so that Thailand couldn't even argue against it (effectively) if they wanted to. I've always said it was too late for any government to delay the listing. I note with a cringe that Samack nicked my point in his explanation today too. I'll send him a bill...

It is extremely silly to lay blame on junta's government after Noppadon personally fired their man, took charge, and even patted himself on the back shortly before everything went south.

Firstly I don't blame the junta, I applaud them. I said if you want to blame someone for the change in policy, blame them rather than this government. Yes Noppadom took over as chief of the panel himself; he's a smarmy git and a media-whore IMO - he wanted the glory. Were he to have suddenly reversed the whole tone of the talks though, don't you think there'd have been an outcry from the others on the team (which included not only the MFA but also the military)? The "damage" if you like was done before his watch, although again I don't consider it "damage".

As for linking this case to Thaksin - it's a fuc_king elephant in the room, Noppadon himself was there on the day Thaksin's investment was announced. But let's pretend (for Prakhanong) that these two men don't know each other.

Thaksin was as bent as a three-bob note like the rest of them IMO but that doesn't mean this was all a fit-up for his benefit. It would mean he was in cahoots with the junta and obviously that doesn't wash. Show me proof - no, show it to the NCCC.

Lots of people and cultures existed in this land, this particular temple was dedicated to Hindu God Shiva, Thais do not have gods of their own, and neither do Cambodians. There's nothing wrong with calling it a Hindu temple.

The word Hindu didn't exist in those days, btw.

I'm not sure present day Cambodians are the real ancestors of the Khmer civilisation. They could be the people who destroyed it. After all even Angkor Wat was just a meaningless ruin for them for centuries until their figured out they can make money out of it.

Thais, on the other hand, have always kept to their roots, they won't declare themselves jews if they suddenly find an ancient sinagogue here.

I mentioned the Khmer now becoming Hindu thing as an example of the press pandering to nationalistic sentiment, nothing more. I've got no beef with those who think that the Temple should have been awarded to Thailand in 1962. I get pissed off with those who repeatedly can't understand that it wasn't and refuse to accept that it's now too late to appeal the matter.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Meerkat

[Meerkat]

And whats wrong with saying: forget about the past we are doing it together: you have the temple we the stairs...we join and rip off the tourists....here the mcdonalds, there the casino, etc etc as usual....

That was effectively the junta/PPP deal.

or you make alone what you want but we don't support it.

That was the deal after the injunction. Cambodia got the listing anyway and Thailand's got what?

As for the evidence linking it to Thaksin.... it is more a stampede of elephants......

Show the evidence to the authorities. Please.

[marshbags]

REGIONAL PERSPECTIVE

By Kavi Chongkittavorn

Published on July 14, 2008 The Nation

In recent weeks, several Foreign Ministry officials have experienced the utmost humiliation when taxi drivers have refused to take them to their offices on Sri Ayudhya Road. Why? They were labelled "traitors" by the cabbies.

In the 133-year history of the Foreign Ministry, the word "traitor" has been used for the first time to refer to the proud bureaucrats who cherish their long tradition of preserving Thailand's sovereignty and territorial integrity, as well as promoting its national interests, all over the world.

A post-mortem of the ministry's handling of the Preah Vihear Temple case reveals symptoms linked to the credibility of elected officials and the role of public diplomacy. Furthermore, the controversy also shows that the country's foreign-policy decision-making process has changed. It is no longer the domain of a few educated diplomats or elite. Public knowledge and participation, through elected MPs or civil society groups, have become important factors. Proper consultations with all stakeholders are now prerequisites.

It was a curse that Noppadon Pattama, the former lawyer of deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was appointed to this prestigious position five months ago. Before that he was an outspoken lawyer defending his boss. Time and again, he praised Thaksin and maintained that he was an innocent man. Even after his appointment, he continued his rhetoric defending Thaksin.

Therefore, Noppadon's political capital was extremely low when he came to the ministry. Instead of augmenting his creditability and fostering public trust, he immediately chose to rail against senior officials who failed to court Thaksin while he was in exile. His first task was pushing for the immediate restoration of Thaksin's diplomatic passport, which was revoked right after the coup. On several occasions, he went overseas in his official capacity to meet with Thaksin, especially in China.

The choice of a Thai foreign minister these days is crucial. Gone are the days when just any politician can head the ministry. In Thai politics, the foreign affairs portfolio requires a capable and honest person, even though it is not a major or financially rewarding ministry in comparison to commerce, finance, industry and education.

As such, the next foreign minister will face similar scrutiny if Noppadon's successor lacks creditability and is perceived as a Thaksin nominee. According to the latest unconfirmed press reports, the Samak government has Vikrom Khumpairoj, the former Thai ambassador to the UK, in mind for the job. If that were the case, it would be problematic because of his close association with Thaksin, both during and after his tenure. After his retirement, Vikrom went on to look after Thaksin's interests in the UK. Due to the negative precedent set by Noppadon, the new minister would be under a cloud of suspicion, despite his diplomatic experience. Public trust and creditability begins at home.

Thailand will be chairing Asean for the next 18 months, from July 25 of this year until December 31 of next year. It is a small window that can boost Thailand's regional and international standing. Any controversy over the ministerial choice at this juncture would be disastrous to Thailand's foreign policy and leadership role in Asean.

It's a sad but true fact, but the Foreign Ministry's work and professionalism in the past five months has been belittled and unwittingly linked to Noppadon's mediocrity and brinkmanship. The ministry has also lacked public diplomacy. The ministry should have anticipated the fallout long before the World Heritage Committee's decision over the Preah Vihear Temple. After all, this issue came up four years ago when Cambodia first made clear to Thailand its attention to list its national treasure as a world heritage site.

In 2004, both countries set up a subcommittee to develop the temple and surrounding areas to attract tourists. A year later, Cambodia made an unsuccessful bid to have the site included on the world heritage list due to incomplete documents. In 2006, Phnom Penh reapplied and was accepted for consideration during last year's meeting in Christchurch, New Zealand. The Thai delegation succeeded in delaying consideration of the proposal until this year's meeting in Quebec.

A four-year span should have been sufficient for the ministry to have begun a concerted campaign to educate concerned authorities, including the armed forces and the public, about the issues and stakes involved. During this pause, misunderstandings and stereotypes caused by emotional swings, political spin and nationalistic fervour could have been better managed, if not mitigated. Popular debates on Preah Vihear were often misleading and were not based on facts and historical evidence. Thailand should learn from the experience and civilised manners which Singapore and Malaysia handled their 29-year old Pedra Branca dispute which was amicably settled in May by a World Court decision.

" Guess who,s government were in charge during this period and their CEO has now emerged as a prominant investor in the region and is benefiting already from Thailands imput....

The new road for one example is a god send to his and other interested parties who are involved in self interest objectives, "

marshbags observation.

Thailand and Cambodia have 798 kilometres of a shared border. The demarcation effort has started, but it will take years before the issue of overlapping areas near the temple will be taken up. Both countries have so far completed only 48 of the 73 demarcation points. Thailand's border demarcations with neighbours have never been easy. Recurring border disputes are to be expected, especially when bilateral relations are deteriorating as they are now. Both sides need further dialogue.

To be fair, the ministry is capable of dealing with important diplomatic issues and publicising information of Thailand's diplomatic initiatives and accomplishments. Certainly on emotionally charged issues, a better-coordinated media strategy and public diplomacy is crucial in providing a timely dissemination of information and views.

Finally, the role of Parliament and civil society groups cannot be ignored. The Constitution Court ruled the June 18 joint communiqu้ with Cambodia was unconstitutional because it was weighted as a legally binding treaty and should go through parliamentary procedures. After the new charter came into effect last year, the Foreign Ministry and the House Foreign Affairs Committee have yet to meet and work together, as mandated by Article 190, which lists sets of criteria on what decisions and issues need parliamentary vetting and approval. Otherwise, Thai diplomacy would be a murky and dangerous affair. The Constitution Court's ruling on the communiqu้ could be an isolated case if and when the concerned authorities agreed on such consultative frameworks.

As the Asean chair, Thailand would like to transform Asean into a more friendly and people-oriented organisation with broader and deeper participation from civil society sectors. Dozens of programmes are planned to enhance dialogue and cooperation between Asean-based civil society groups and Asean leaders. This is part of the ongoing campaign to materialise the third pillar of Asean community - a Sociocultural Community in 2015.

Unquote

marshbags

Edited July 14, 2008 by marshbags

[Tony Clifton]

[sriracha john]

That's ok. There's another list of Mission Accomplished being promulgated...

Whether these specific charges are true or not, one statement is:

Saam nahm naa

Indeed.... he started it all himself...

Mission Impossible through the years on Thaivisa....

Thaksin Resigns as Prime Minister

Time to recharge the batteries now that mission #1 has been accomplished. ("Mission Impossible" was what many people thought)

Thai court rejects April elections

Constitutional court calls for new parliamentary poll

Another month... another mission accomplished.... #2 and counting....

Thaksin Resigns As Thai Rak Thai Leader

Mission Accomplished #3

Thai Rak Thai Party Dissolved

Mission Accomplished #4

Thaksin Banned From Politics For Five Years

Mission Accomplished #5

Arrest Warrants Issued For Former PM Thaksin And His Wife

Mission Accomplished #6

#7 is coming up...

[Plus]

Noppadom changed nothing

Noppadon underemoniously removed chief negotiator appointed during junta times, that's not enough evidence of change of policy for you?

[hammered]

We can debate who did what and when but it is a very academic debate. The telling comment is the one about cabbies refusing rides to "traitors". That is where the public debate is at. The policy is linked to the Samak government and Noppadol. It is not linked to any previous government in the public eyes. As always in politcs it is so important to win the PR and marketing war. This usually has nothing to do with the truth whatever the policy. In the past TRT were so good at the spin. This time their PPP successor has made a mess of its marketing job.

[jumnien]

Read the Supinya interview in today's Nation. A good critique of the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and their ASTV mouthpiece.

[sriracha john]

We can debate who did what and when but it is a very academic debate. The telling comment is the one about cabbies refusing rides to "traitors". That is where the public debate is at. The policy is linked to the Samak government and Noppadol. It is not linked to any previous government in the public eyes. As always in politcs it is so important to win the PR and marketing war. This usually has nothing to do with the truth whatever the policy. In the past TRT were so good at the spin. This time their PPP successor has made a mess of its marketing job.

with a whole new Preah Vihear-ish issue around the corner.... and one less arbitrary.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2086315

[h90]

And whats wrong with saying: forget about the past we are doing it together: you have the temple we the stairs...we join and rip off the tourists....here the mcdonalds, there the casino, etc etc as usual....

That was effectively the junta/PPP deal. It was listed as world heritage of Thailand and Cambodia???

or you make alone what you want but we don't support it.

That was the deal after the injunction. Cambodia got the listing anyway and Thailand's got what? Nothing as planed

As for the evidence linking it to Thaksin.... it is more a stampede of elephants......

Show the evidence to the authorities. Please. yes PAD is doing it already

[sriracha john]

from Reuters:

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) handed over a petition accusing the cabinet of agreeing to cede land to Cambodia in return for business concessions for ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The charge has been denied by Thaksin and the government in Cambodia

The PAD petition accused Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup, of conspiring to cede Thai territory for his personal gain.

NCCC Secretary-General Saravuth Maenasavet told reporters the agency would decide on Tuesday whether it would investigate the Preah Vihear case.

If it believed the cabinet broke the law, the NCCC would forward its findings to the Supreme Court for a ruling which could lead to the government's impeachment by the Senate.

[hammered]

from Reuters:

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) handed over a petition accusing the cabinet of agreeing to cede land to Cambodia in return for business concessions for ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The charge has been denied by Thaksin and the government in Cambodia

The PAD petition accused Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup, of conspiring to cede Thai territory for his personal gain.

NCCC Secretary-General Saravuth Maenasavet told reporters the agency would decide on Tuesday whether it would investigate the Preah Vihear case.

If it believed the cabinet broke the law, the NCCC would forward its findings to the Supreme Court for a ruling which could lead to the government's impeachment by the Senate.

Somewhere there is an irony that the highly nationalistic Thai love Thai project that brought us the ministry of culture, no spaghetti straps and social crusades ends being harpooned on a spear of nationalism. Lets just hope it doesnt get too out of control.

[hammered]

Read the Supinya interview in today's Nation. A good critique of the hyper-conservative and nationalistic PAD and their ASTV mouthpiece.

Here is the link:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/07/14...al_30078016.php

It is worth a read in full imho and is as critical of PTV and the government as ASTV. In summary she is woreid about the freedom of media and of the responsibility of media that is free to do the right thing.

[h90]

from Reuters:

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) handed over a petition accusing the cabinet of agreeing to cede land to Cambodia in return for business concessions for ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The charge has been denied by Thaksin and the government in Cambodia

The PAD petition accused Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 coup, of conspiring to cede Thai territory for his personal gain.

NCCC Secretary-General Saravuth Maenasavet told reporters the agency would decide on Tuesday whether it would investigate the Preah Vihear case.

If it believed the cabinet broke the law, the NCCC would forward its findings to the Supreme Court for a ruling which could lead to the government's impeachment by the Senate.

Somewhere there is an irony that the highly nationalistic Thai love Thai project that brought us the ministry of culture, no spaghetti straps and social crusades ends being harpooned on a spear of nationalism. Lets just hope it doesnt get too out of control.

I worry for the spaghetti straps

[Sturbuc]

Wonderful news, 2 of Thaksin's minions gone in a few weeks. His tenure was a disgrace from the start, rushing to return the red passport, rushing to change the number to satisfy his paymaster, rushing to please Hun Sen to please his paymaster, what an absolute disgrace.

By the way, will Watana join Kamnan Poh in hiding in Cambodia? Will Thaksin be joining them soon?

Well, please explain whenever any new item is posted somebody has to moan about Thaksin.... Isn't this another case and should be viewed concerning the dispute with Campuchea; and World-Heritage-Sites (as this Temple wasn't pronounced as such by the WHC and not by the UNESCO)? THINK....

Edited July 28, 2008 by Sturbuc