Is Everything Black Or White?

[A_Traveller]

A question to which I'd be intrigued to know other members opinions.

Are members here becoming less tolerant, that is of discussion of disparate points of view or seeking clarifications, and must such discussions degenerate into binaries, e.g. pro or anti?

Recently I've contributed to threads asking for, or endeavouring to offer, elucidation, but responses these days are often simply suggesting that I've either a hidden agenda or am supporting 'the other side' which, in my case, is always, of course, The Dark Side.

Thoughts anyone?

Regards

[zaza]

Honey ; just show your own true colors and to he!! with everybody! it all goes back to what they are made of.

don't tink too mut na

[chiliwasabi]

Some things are also cream, off white, ivory or beige

[farang555]

at least to thais its all black or white!

[lannarebirth]

I think the average intelligence quotient of the board is dropping as persons of intelligence and wit find themselves banned with what appears to be increasing regularity. Banality and insipidnous seems to be the order of the day. Hopefully this will be only a short chapter in the life of Thai Visa.

Edited July 14, 2008 by lannarebirth

[farang555]

you miss blizzard huh................l;ol!

[PhilHarries]

I don't think TV is any different to life. Increasingly people only see things from their point of view and flatly refuse to consider the alternatives. The days when you could have a reasoned discussion without it degenerating into an us versus them struggle are fading.

I was going to reply "when I was a kid everything was in black and white but then they invented colour television" but that could be ruled banal and insipid.

As for the average IQ of the board deminishing again I think, if that is indeed the case, it merely reflects reality out there in the flesh and blood world. You only have to analyse some of the pulp being pushed out in the name of entertainment on television to see that.

[PeaceBlondie]

When was ThaiVisa the epitome of purely high-IQ comments by the intelligentsia? It must have been before my time. We have no minimal IQ for posting here, just some rules. If those brainiacs were so smart, why did they get banned? Or did they all run off to the Mensa discussions? I have a sister who is only slightly retarded, and she could not find ThaiVisa if her life depended on it.

Surely, there are some inane, stupid threads, and we joke about how we post there saying how stupid the topic is. The solution in part is that we folks with above average IQ and EQ do our best to post well. Posting cleverly but insultingly is not good posting.

Surely, A Traveller is right that we should not jump to absurd miscalculations about what the other posters are saying. Positions about opinions, values, politics, religion, cross-cultural experiences, etc., are neither black-white nor simplistic. There are over 60 million different kinds of Thais, and not all Americans are the same, either.

[cloudhopper]

A

All human language is a blunt instrument that only rarely accomplishes it's intended mission.

But this comes close, very close to what the right brain is screaming -

Honey ; just show your own true colors and to he!! with everybody! it all goes back to what they are made of.

don't tink too mut na

Regards

Oh BTW next time please frame this as a poll question OK?

[sassienie]

Quite a few Thaivisa members that I used to find informative and interesting had been banned from Thaivisa and I too am scared to say boo to a goose on Thaivisa for the fear that I may also get banned.

So I read, take it in, enjoy and say little.

Edited July 14, 2008 by sassienie

[teej]

I think the average intelligence quotient of the board is dropping as persons of intelligence and wit find themselves banned with what appears to be increasing regularity. Banality and insipidnous seems to be the order of the day. Hopefully this will be only a short chapter in the life of Thai Visa.

I must agree with lanna here. It appears as though the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater (at least in some cases).

Some banned members may have had "unpopular" opinions, yet they were at the very least, articulate. Which unfortunately cannot be said about many of the new lot of members we've had over the last 6 months. Some of these guys just post utter drivel, not even opinions of sort. The General Forum is a mess. I suppose it always has been, but it seems like a dumbed-down version of what it used to be (didn't think it was possible -- it is).

I think TV has changed since about 2008 onward, though I can't postulate as to why (PhilHarries is onto something methinks). The movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind -- look it up if unfamiliar.

What makes a discussion interesting is the discussion that occurs in between the black and the white. Degradation into binaries was always inevitable, but at least it we used to have some substance thrown in here and there in the gray area before what ultimately would be the 'binary' end of the thread.

[Jimjim]

Sometimes posters with wit are taken too seriously and action is wrongly taken against them. A lot of humor is taken the wrong way and that's the problem.

[bultaco44]

A question to which I'd be intrigued to know other members opinions.

Are members here becoming less tolerant, that is of discussion of disparate points of view or seeking clarifications, and must such discussions degenerate into binaries, e.g. pro or anti?

Recently I've contributed to threads asking for, or endeavouring to offer, elucidation, but responses these days are often simply suggesting that I've either a hidden agenda or am supporting 'the other side' which, in my case, is always, of course, The Dark Side.

Thoughts anyone?

Regards

Ok, A traveller.

As you can see, i'm new here, and appreciate the treasure of information here.

Many (most?) posters in General Topics, on the other hand, seems to me, only to be posting their rude,irrelevant, smartass comments, because they haven't got a thing going for them in their life.

Are they stupid? Nah. Unsatistisfied with the daily routine? Maybe.

There you have it. Now I too broke the oldest rule in The Worldwide Forum Rules Book myself:

Respond to others postings with the same respect, as if he was a stranger (7 feet) sitting next to you, having a conversation.

Sadly, it's not only on TV.

Regards.

[qwertz]

Sometimes posters with wit are taken too seriously and action is wrongly taken against them. A lot of humor is taken the wrong way and that's the problem.

Too true, JimJim.

[intumult]

I don't think TV is any different to life. Increasingly people only see things from their point of view and flatly refuse to consider the alternatives. The days when you could have a reasoned discussion without it degenerating into an us versus them struggle are fading.

I was going to reply "when I was a kid everything was in black and white but then they invented colour television" but that could be ruled banal and insipid.

As for the average IQ of the board deminishing again I think, if that is indeed the case, it merely reflects reality out there in the flesh and blood world. You only have to analyse some of the pulp being pushed out in the name of entertainment on television to see that.

Are you too young to remeber the 'Black and White Minstrels' ?? That was entertainment. High IQ and all

I had better not get started on Robinsons Golliwogs.

B4 I get a ban, it was all part of life when we grew up. Marmalade n all !!

[cloudhopper]

Sometimes posters with wit are taken too seriously and action is wrongly taken against them. A lot of humor is taken the wrong way and that's the problem.

Exactamundo JJ!

[JSixpack]

I think the average intelligence quotient of the board is dropping as persons of intelligence and wit find themselves banned with what appears to be increasing regularity. Banality and insipidnous seems to be the order of the day. Hopefully this will be only a short chapter in the life of Thai Visa.

Well, so many of our posters are uneducated. Lots of know-it-all working-class Brits, once or presently brickies, plasterers, hod carriers & whatnot mainly concerned about beer, birds, bashing & finding Brit delicacies in Thailand such as proper pork scratchings and sliced pickled beetroot. They seem perpetually stuck in a Monty Python movie of their own imagining.

Edited July 15, 2008 by JSixpack

[toptuan]

I think the average intelligence quotient of the board is dropping as persons of intelligence and wit find themselves banned with what appears to be increasing regularity. Banality and insipidnous seems to be the order of the day. Hopefully this will be only a short chapter in the life of Thai Visa.

Well, so many of our posters are uneducated. Lots of know-it-all working-class Brits, once or presently brickies, plasterers, hod carriers & whatnot mainly concerned about beer, birds, bashing & finding Brit delicacies in Thailand such as proper pork scratchings and sliced pickled beetroot. They seem perpetually stuck in a Monty Python movie of their own imagining.

Insulting as he_ll, but hilarious!

[laphroaig]

Being new here myself i am still finding my feet so to speak however see similarities on this forum are no different to other forums on which i have belonged for many years.

Standard 'growth characteristics' of Interet forums include

• Allowing ego to overtake common sense and compassion. In simple terms, cheap point scoring to gain mana or status. There is always room for humour however this should perhaps not be used as an excuse for egotistical behaviour.
  
• Longer term members wishing things were as they used to be (Grumpy old man syndrome, the sort of things we accused our parents of) an an unwillingness to open our eyes to new and diverse ideas.
  
• Shorter term members conversely making points in an inaapropriate manner and not showing due respect to other members that they too have a point of view for consideration.
  
• Changes in standards of what is and what is not acceptable
  
• Changes in Modersation personal who are likely to reflect their own personality in forum moderation rather than a single party line.
  

Forums are after all, a method of collating information, discussion and opinion but I wonder if human-kind could maybe listen more to others and consider their point of view as having value? Everyone has a reason for thinking what they think, we all see things from our own individual viewpoint so whilst I like to see common sense, politeness and fair treatment, we are all different. Get rid of Ego

T

Edited July 15, 2008 by Tonykiwi

[A_Traveller]

May I thank all those who have taken the time to respond thus far and hope that the discussion continues, highlights for me include a member who's post count is less than 20, having been a member since '04 feeling the thread worth contributing to, and JSP's 'hod carriers' post which, even though I'm a Brit, elicited a rare laugh out loud moment.

It's interesting to see those who feel this resonates since, in my view, they are often posters whose contributions are qualitatively of a higher standard. As to the 'good old days' view, I do think it's worthwhile looking at some of the older threads and seeing how many intriguing contributors {agree or disagree with them} are no longer here.

Regards

[Shotime]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned age. A lot of the shades of grey come from experience. Sometimes even an "unintelligent" person has something "intelligent" to say, and vice-versa. I'm starting to associate certain posters with certain age groups which I'm not real thrilled about. Me doing that, I mean. Not any particular age group.

I saw someone use exactamundo which isn't a Spanish word, but I used it all the time in Mexico and always got a laugh. I like it better than exactamente. It has a more worldly sense of truth to it.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Shotime

[Crushdepth]

Are members here becoming less tolerant, that is of discussion of disparate points of view or seeking clarifications, and must such discussions degenerate into binaries, e.g. pro or anti?

I think I have become a bit less tolerant, or maybe its just that I ventured into some different forums on the site for a change (the IT one is relatively peaceful and constructive), but whatever, I came across some rampant stupidity that I just couldn't let pass by and I felt compelled to argue. It was a waste of time of course (some people genuinely believe the world is flat), so now I don't bother looking at those forums anymore.

Om....

[GaiYaang]

at least to thais its all black or white!

Nope, it all about white.

[Dustoff]

Well, this is interesting - intelligent discussion about lack of intelligent discussion..

Having experienced various forums over the years, I have noticed that the directions they take can vary widely. This is due primarily to subject matter and whether they are, or are not, moderated. An open forum such as this, if unmoderated, would have failed long ago and while I am no fan of censorship, I appreciate that TV is moderated even if I have to accept that this is not by any stretch of the imagination a democracy.

I think that most of us who seek intelligent and meaningful interchange eventually develop a sixth sense about the way many topics are going to progress before even opening them. As a result, we tend to simply skim the headlines and log in only occasionally, which leaves much of the board to the predators, scavangers and people who feel the need to project their miserable lives onto others. After a while we tend to just wander off to find meaningful contact elsewhere, just as we do in 'real life'.

I like TV very much for finding where to buy my gadgets and gizmos and for the more altruistic and informative threads but my participation has admittedly been on the wane.

I suppose the moderation can be a bit heavy-handed but I think we have to realize that the mods HAVE to deal with reading all of the crap to even oversee what is going on. That would not make my day and someone would have to pay for the ulcers I would likely be developing..

The 'black and whites' are not in charge, as much as they seem to be. Between the givers and the carrion are all those shades of colors and grays and we just need to be very selective about what we are willing to read - just as we choose what we are willing to put up with (or dish out) in our daily life away from the computer screen...

[PeaceBlondie]

I sent a PM today to a regular poster who expressed polite disgust at some of the posts he sees. I suggested he judge some threads on their title or opening post, and ignore them. You may ignore certain posters, literally. Please do not leave TVisa to the lowest common denominator.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

A question to which I'd be intrigued to know other members opinions.

Are members here becoming less tolerant, that is of discussion of disparate points of view or seeking clarifications, and must such discussions degenerate into binaries, e.g. pro or anti?

Recently I've contributed to threads asking for, or endeavouring to offer, elucidation, but responses these days are often simply suggesting that I've either a hidden agenda or am supporting 'the other side' which, in my case, is always, of course, The Dark Side.

Thoughts anyone?

Regards

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" ...

"To a dark place this line of thought will take us. Great care we must take." ...

[lannarebirth]

I think the average intelligence quotient of the board is dropping as persons of intelligence and wit find themselves banned with what appears to be increasing regularity. Banality and insipidnous seems to be the order of the day. Hopefully this will be only a short chapter in the life of Thai Visa.

I must agree with lanna here. It appears as though the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater (at least in some cases).

Thanks for the shout out teej. Please accept this portrait of myself as a small token of thanks.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ennui.htm

[Scott]

There are plenty of shades of grey here on TV, but they don't draw the kind of attention that the heated discussions do. It can be quite uncomfortable to get jumped on for expressing an opinion and so--unless it's very dear to my heart--I wait for someone else and then just try and support them and the case they are making without flaming or attacking the opposition.

The other thing is there are lots of inane threads--but they are often quite entertaining, but the main thing is that there are some very helpful and informative threads where you the most up-to-date information and they are truely appreciated.

There are plenty of sharp knives in the drawer here, but unfortunately some get pretty quiet when attacked incessantly.

[OlRedEyes]

A few posters here on TV handle their postings/conversations/discussions in a similar way as they probably would 'out there', but generally the disconnect between real life and the virtual world is growing apace. Black and white is much easier on the net, you ain't gonna be bashed in the face, no matter how rude and obnoxious you are. No need to consider other views, and moderate your own.

Fall into this trap and you inevitably devalue yourself. Most posts on this thread reflect that one-sided view, from both sides of the fence.

The fact that you gravitate toward a line of ignoring and simply ridiculing other views will not really affect you here on the board, but it will inevitably carry over into your day-to-day life and affect it negatively. You can try to divorce the two, but with time your attitude will spill over.

If you wish to learn and grow, the net offers a fantastic opportunity to do just that, but take care not to destroy your social skills, they are still sorely needed in life. There is a mass of technical learning available on the net, but the real value lies in the potential it holds in improving your insight into human behavior and ideas. These are potent tools to have in life. The only way to acquire them is to listen, evaluate, discuss. Learn to interact with as many diverse people as possible, from all walks of life. If you don't, you simply limit yourself.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Thanks for the shout out teej. Please accept this portrait of myself as a small token of thanks.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ennui.htm

Interesting website. Think it will take me a while to "find myself"... Perhaps I'll just write myself off as a schizo or chameleon, as I vary according to tone of the thread... Unfortunately sometimes get the tone wrong though...