Democrat Party May Face Dissolution

[Old Man River]

Anyone want to remind Sunrise for the millionth time that the EC was appointed BEFORE the coup?

Maybe mods should make it a sticky as he's apparenly cannot to remember it, too busy posting.

Does anyone want to remind Plus that Prem was PM for the Democrates for 8 years, go figure!

Seriously, you just make this up didn't you?

[h90]

Anyone want to remind Sunrise for the millionth time that the EC was appointed BEFORE the coup?

Wow, are you insinuating that every commission appointed before the coup is free from corruption and political and financial self-interest?

Does anyone want to remind Plus that Prem was PM for the Democrates for 8 years, go figure!

What has it got to do with EC being appointed while Thaksin was still the PM?

Nothing.

And Prem has never been a Democrat party member.

Have you both got a whiff of that 2 ton marijuana batch that was burned recently or what?

always the same blabla from Sunrise and friends....Ages ago they (don't know Sun or one of his friends) that Chuan caused the 1997 crises...

I would like to know: are they paid? or simply can't separate dreams from real life?

It is going all the time that way with these guys.....

[chuang]

Democrat Party may face dissolution

-- The Nation 2008-07-15

When that happens I will definately drink to it...

[jumnien]

Anyone want to remind Sunrise for the millionth time that the EC was appointed BEFORE the coup?

Wow, are you insinuating that every commission appointed before the coup is free from corruption and political and financial self-interest?

Does anyone want to remind Plus that Prem was PM for the Democrates for 8 years, go figure!

What has it got to do with EC being appointed while Thaksin was still the PM?

Nothing.

And Prem has never been a Democrat party member.

Have you both got a whiff of that 2 ton marijuana batch that was burned recently or what?

always the same blabla from Sunrise and friends....Ages ago they (don't know Sun or one of his friends) that Chuan caused the 1997 crises...

I would like to know: are they paid? or simply can't separate dreams from real life?

It is going all the time that way with these guys.....

Yes, I stand corrected after viewing the latest ASTV special blaming Thaksin for the crisis of 1997.

[hammered]

Anyone want to remind Sunrise for the millionth time that the EC was appointed BEFORE the coup?

Wow, are you insinuating that every commission appointed before the coup is free from corruption and political and financial self-interest?

Does anyone want to remind Plus that Prem was PM for the Democrates for 8 years, go figure!

What has it got to do with EC being appointed while Thaksin was still the PM?

Nothing.

And Prem has never been a Democrat party member.

Have you both got a whiff of that 2 ton marijuana batch that was burned recently or what?

always the same blabla from Sunrise and friends....Ages ago they (don't know Sun or one of his friends) that Chuan caused the 1997 crises...

I would like to know: are they paid? or simply can't separate dreams from real life?

It is going all the time that way with these guys.....

Yes, I stand corrected after viewing the latest ASTV special blaming Thaksin for the crisis of 1997.

Sunrise I am sure you are aware that Thaksin was a deputy primeminister in the Gen. Chavalit government that oversaw the 1997 crash and the disastrously failed attempt to support the baht. This information is available from many many sources worldwide. The Chuan government came after the collapse of the baht and after Gen. Chavalit resigned.

By the way, considering you dont like the military and police and all them maybe you can answer a question of mine. How many PMs has Thailand had that were not ex-military or ex-police?

[Pierrot]

Which brings us back to PAD "new politics" underlying idea - elected politicians are a total disgrace and the less we have of them, the better, and the underlying reason for that is people who elect them. And these people are not Swiss (in light of the latest post above).

Maybe you should consider moving to Cuba when it's still time? It's been a long time they have solved the problem of the election there. You and the PAD crowd really remind me of the people who looked with admiration toward Berlin in 36 or later to the Kremlin. I mean they were sincere people, believing in new, fairer order, but at the end, just blind fools.

[catmac]

Which brings us back to PAD "new politics" underlying idea - elected politicians are a total disgrace and the less we have of them, the better, and the underlying reason for that is people who elect them. And these people are not Swiss (in light of the latest post above).

Maybe you should consider moving to Cuba when it's still time? It's been a long time they have solved the problem of the election there. You and the PAD crowd really remind me of the people who looked with admiration toward Berlin in 36 or later to the Kremlin. I mean they were sincere people, believing in new, fairer order, but at the end, just blind fools.

Spot on, dear Pierrot!

I never cease to be amazed at the sheer contempt posters like Plus have for the ordinary electors of Thailand. Just because they aren't so daft as to vote for the Democratic Party, and let's not forget that the present sorry state of the country is a direct result of that (un)Democratic Party refusing to stand in the pre-coup general election, acting like a spoiled child who wouldn't play just because he knew he couldn't win!

[TAWP]

[Siripon]

Which brings us back to PAD "new politics" underlying idea - elected politicians are a total disgrace and the less we have of them, the better, and the underlying reason for that is people who elect them. And these people are not Swiss (in light of the latest post above).

Maybe you should consider moving to Cuba when it's still time? It's been a long time they have solved the problem of the election there. You and the PAD crowd really remind me of the people who looked with admiration toward Berlin in 36 or later to the Kremlin. I mean they were sincere people, believing in new, fairer order, but at the end, just blind fools.

Spot on, dear Pierrot!

I never cease to be amazed at the sheer contempt posters like Plus have for the ordinary electors of Thailand. Just because they aren't so daft as to vote for the Democratic Party, and let's not forget that the present sorry state of the country is a direct result of that (un)Democratic Party refusing to stand in the pre-coup general election, acting like a spoiled child who wouldn't play just because he knew he couldn't win!

The present state is due to Thaksin refusing to answer any questions in Parliament regarding his actions. To Thaksin the population can vote once every 4 years and then shut up!

No checks

No balances.

In the meantime he offered enough sweeteners to ensure the rural majority vote whilst his family and cahorts plundered the country.

But he got found out.

I told my mother in Ban Pai, Khon Kaen to put our dog up as the PPP candidate in the next election, it was born in Thailand so it should be eligible- it would win hands down.

I noticed Chalerm promising to double kamnan and puyai ban's salary the other day- got to keep the village leaders on your side because the majority of rural voters will follow their advice.

[ando]

An appointed government would be a dictatorship by proxy.

Better to let the democratic process run its course in the hope the courts can keep them reasonably honest IMHO.

[Los78]

Which brings us back to PAD "new politics" underlying idea - elected politicians are a total disgrace and the less we have of them, the better, and the underlying reason for that is people who elect them. And these people are not Swiss (in light of the latest post above).

Maybe you should consider moving to Cuba when it's still time? It's been a long time they have solved the problem of the election there. You and the PAD crowd really remind me of the people who looked with admiration toward Berlin in 36 or later to the Kremlin. I mean they were sincere people, believing in new, fairer order, but at the end, just blind fools.

Spot on, dear Pierrot!

I never cease to be amazed at the sheer contempt posters like Plus have for the ordinary electors of Thailand. Just because they aren't so daft as to vote for the Democratic Party, and let's not forget that the present sorry state of the country is a direct result of that (un)Democratic Party refusing to stand in the pre-coup general election, acting like a spoiled child who wouldn't play just because he knew he couldn't win!

The present state is due to Thaksin refusing to answer any questions in Parliament regarding his actions. To Thaksin the population can vote once every 4 years and then shut up!

No checks

No balances.

In the meantime he offered enough sweeteners to ensure the rural majority vote whilst his family and cahorts plundered the country.

But he got found out.

I told my mother in Ban Pai, Khon Kaen to put our dog up as the PPP candidate in the next election, it was born in Thailand so it should be eligible- it would win hands down.

I noticed Chalerm promising to double kamnan and puyai ban's salary the other day- got to keep the village leaders on your side because the majority of rural voters will follow their advice.

Sweeteners is all part of campaigning. You dont know that? They are offered by all parties in democracy to get themselves elected. If people vote for someone because of some sweetener that is the aim. If you want to win you need to get the voters on board your party. Its all a part of democracy. Even though you may feel its not fair that the majority didnt vote for your prefered party. Thats just bad luck and the masses have spoken. Respect it. I wish some of you guys that hate the government so strongly would understand this and give the government a chance to at least try to govern before being so critical on its first few months in office. THe government are not Magicians like some of you believe they should be. Every party has some questionable candidates thats with every democratic country and yes the courts should play their role but if you look at election campaigns in Australia, Europe, US, UK you would relize that all parties do sweeteners to get elected and they dont put down voters from their rural parts.

The rural majority is Thailands back bone and its sad to see that certain bitter parties put them down so much because they dont vote their way . Respect democracy and they can vote who they want. Everyone has their right to vote anyway they wish in Thailand for PPP, Dems, or who ever they feel is the best for them. Stop trying to insist that rural people are lesser then people in the capital. etc. Respect their choice. Their vote is as important as yours, like it or not... If all you anti-gov people like a military Military dictatorship then visit Burma and see how free and well off they are over there. Im sure you would not want to have that system here.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Los78

[Old Man River]

Spot on, dear Pierrot!

I never cease to be amazed at the sheer contempt posters like Plus have for the ordinary electors of Thailand. Just because they aren't so daft as to vote for the Democratic Party, and let's not forget that the present sorry state of the country is a direct result of that (un)Democratic Party refusing to stand in the pre-coup general election, acting like a spoiled child who wouldn't play just because he knew he couldn't win!

Not quite (by a long shot). Below is a a good analysis of the April 2006 election from Michael Nelson, senior researcher of South East Asian studies at the University of Passau, Germany:

"There were two reasons for nullifying the election. First, the Constitutional court found that ordering a new election to take place only 37 days after the dissolution of the House, though not in itself a violation of the constitution, had nevertheless led to political problems serious enough to violate the democratic core of the election.

Second, the court found that by turning the polling booths around in a way that the open part would point to the polling station committee and the public, while the voter would turn his back to both, the constitutionally guaranteed secrecy of the vote had fundamentally been violated."

Such was the finding of the Constitutional Court after, on 26 April 2006, the King intervened in an unusually direct and strong form. During separate audiences for judges of the Supreme Administrative Court and the Supreme Court at Klai Kangwol Palace in Prachuap Khiri Khan province, the King asked whether the political situation was perhaps messed up to the point that the election might have to be nullified. He put pressure on the courts to do their part to solve the problems by saying:

Should the election be nullified? You have the right to say what’s appropriate or not. If it’s not appropriate, it is not to say the government is not good. But as far as I’m concerned, a one party election is not normal. The one candidate situation is undemocratic. When an election is not democratic, you should look carefully into the administrative issues. I ask you to do the best you can. If you cannot do it, then it should be you who resign, not the government, for failing to do your duty. Carefully review the vows you have made. … The nation cannot survive if the situation runs contrary to the law. Therefore, I ask you to carefully study whether you can make a point on this issue. If not, you had better resign. You have been tasked with this duty. You are knowledgeable. You must make the country function correctly.

Get the picture now? Hopefully, this doesn't have to be explained further.

[baanthale]

Which brings us back to PAD "new politics" underlying idea - elected politicians are a total disgrace and the less we have of them, the better, and the underlying reason for that is people who elect them. And these people are not Swiss (in light of the latest post above).

Maybe you should consider moving to Cuba when it's still time? It's been a long time they have solved the problem of the election there. You and the PAD crowd really remind me of the people who looked with admiration toward Berlin in 36 or later to the Kremlin. I mean they were sincere people, believing in new, fairer order, but at the end, just blind fools.

Spot on, dear Pierrot!

I never cease to be amazed at the sheer contempt posters like Plus have for the ordinary electors of Thailand. Just because they aren't so daft as to vote for the Democratic Party, and let's not forget that the present sorry state of the country is a direct result of that (un)Democratic Party refusing to stand in the pre-coup general election, acting like a spoiled child who wouldn't play just because he knew he couldn't win!

The present state is due to Thaksin refusing to answer any questions in Parliament regarding his actions. To Thaksin the population can vote once every 4 years and then shut up!

No checks

No balances.

In the meantime he offered enough sweeteners to ensure the rural majority vote whilst his family and cahorts plundered the country.

But he got found out.

I told my mother in Ban Pai, Khon Kaen to put our dog up as the PPP candidate in the next election, it was born in Thailand so it should be eligible- it would win hands down.

I noticed Chalerm promising to double kamnan and puyai ban's salary the other day- got to keep the village leaders on your side because the majority of rural voters will follow their advice.

Sweeteners is all part of campaigning. You dont know that? They are offered by all parties in democracy to get themselves elected. If people vote for someone because of some sweetener that is the aim. If you want to win you need to get the voters on board your party. Its all a part of democracy. Even though you may feel its not fair that the majority didnt vote for your prefered party. Thats just bad luck and the masses have spoken. Respect it. I wish some of you guys that hate the government so strongly would understand this and give the government a chance to at least try to govern before being so critical on its first few months in office. THe government are not Magicians like some of you believe they should be. Every party has some questionable candidates thats with every democratic country and yes the courts should play their role but if you look at election campaigns in Australia, Europe, US, UK you would relize that all parties do sweeteners to get elected and they dont put down voters from their rural parts.

The rural majority is Thailands back bone and its sad to see that certain bitter parties put them down so much because they dont vote their way . Respect democracy and they can vote who they want. Everyone has their right to vote anyway they wish in Thailand for PPP, Dems, or who ever they feel is the best for them. Stop trying to insist that rural people are lesser then people in the capital. etc. Respect their choice. Their vote is as important as yours, like it or not... If all you anti-gov people like a military Military dictatorship then visit Burma and see how free and well off they are over there. Im sure you would not want to have that system here.

You my friend got it all right on spot! Very good post, tells all there is to know really about politics in Thailand! Dems do not get enough votes because they do not have anything to offer the mayority of the people of Thailand. All time we hear that the farmers are to stupid to vote, thats why the democrates do not win elections. My question has to be, so why didn't the "good" democrats spend some money on education for the poor over all this years in power before

[TAWP]

You are saying that they should magically create money, perhaps pick them from the money trees, to build schools throughout the country and helps negate vote-buying by populists?

While at the same time the party in power both use tax payers money to obfuscate the truth, censor media...and en richen them selfs. This is in effect what was going on in 2005-2006.

[Pierrot]

Get the picture now? Hopefully, this doesn't have to be explained further.

The picture is clear. Why bother with election ? Old Man River will give us the name of our next leader, everybody else please shut up !

[baanthale]

You are saying that they should magically create money, perhaps pick them from the money trees, to build schools throughout the country and helps negate vote-buying by populists?

While at the same time the party in power both use tax payers money to obfuscate the truth, censor media...and en richen them selfs. This is in effect what was going on in 2005-2006.

Yes, you are absolutly right, thats what I meen, just cut down money from tree's You are Swedish? I am to.. Have you heard about taxes, really rightly registerd businesses, stop of corruption, work together for a healthier society. This things will bring Thailand a long way (as you know, we had the same dilemas 100's of year ago), or maybe you are just one of them who thinks it's okay to pay a little bit under, there and then everyday, because you can afford it?

[Pierrot]

You are saying that they should magically create money, perhaps pick them from the money trees, to build schools throughout the country and helps negate vote-buying by populists?

While at the same time the party in power both use tax payers money to obfuscate the truth, censor media...and en richen them selfs. This is in effect what was going on in 2005-2006.

Create money ? Who talks about creating money? Just about spending the money collected in some projects useful for the collectivity.

The difference between the last administration and the previous ones is we had someone who make decicision and get things done instead of administration following other administration, each collecting part of the loot, and letting the next one starting the project all over again to be able to collect even more "consulting fees" without nothing ever been achieved.

Edited for precision:When talking about the last administration, I was talking of the administration PRIOR to the coup, the last legit one.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Pierrot

[Groongthep]

The title of this thread is "Democratic Party May Face Dissolution". Therefore it implies the question: What would happen if they were dissolved? The simple answer is that they would simply re-organize under a different name just as the Thai Rak Thai reorganized as the People's Power Party (PPP). In other words, nothing would change.

[Pierrot]

The title of this thread is "Democratic Party May Face Dissolution". Therefore it implies the question: What would happen if they were dissolved? The simple answer is that they would simply re-organize under a different name just as the Thai Rak Thai reorganized as the People's Power Party (PPP). In other words, nothing would change.

One may also be tempted by some kind of "conspiration theory" involving the old order.

The "old order", who is the real force behind the "new politics" ideas, wants the last big party to be eventually dissolved so they can come back with a coup that is not a "coup" but still get them rid of the present government

Sounds a bit desperate? Actually it probably is but time doesn't seem to be on their side.

IMHO it will probably backfired, with a coup that is not a "coup" because it will allow the elected government to govern at last.

[Old Man River]

Get the picture now? Hopefully, this doesn't have to be explained further.

The picture is clear. Why bother with election ? Old Man River will give us the name of our next leader, everybody else please shut up !

So you still don't understand what happened. I guess you can lead a horse to water...

[Plus]

We can talk about rural majority's qualifications forever, that's not really the point.

The problem is that they have elected the current government, and the result is a fuc_king disgrace. Everytime someone mentions new elections, they say PPP would win again hands down, and that means there's something seriously wrong with the current system.

It's not about "preferred party" at all - people like Samak and Chalerm shouldn't be allowed anywhere near positions of power in the first place. Mingkwan and Surapong can play tag of war over rice prices as long as it takes, at least they are trying to do some work, but other clowns, like that Health Minister who was like a cancer tumor himself or the wives and other assoroted relatives brigade are a complete waste of time, and so it the parlament. That bunch does not even intend to do any work, they behave as parlament is a place only for skimming off some serious money.

HALF the Cabinet is under some sort of investigations, FIVE ministers, including the PM, can be ousted any minute, three coalition partners are on the block for electoral fraud - this is a problem that has nothing to do with "preferred parties" at all.

It is assumed that the winner of the elections would assemble the best government possible but now NO ONE with any ounce of credibility wants to serve there, we've got spa owner running Finance Ministry, for godssakes, no one else wants to take it, and it's one of the most prestigious posts.

That might sounds ok by rural electorate standards, but if the government has no credibility among professionals and on larger international level, the country has got a serious problem on its hands. Each person might have an equal vote, but when it comes to opinion makers, farmer Somchai endorsement is incomparable to top level economists damnation that spreads like a fire through investment and political cirlces.

I've heard the argument that we should let democracy run its course, bad apples will eventually be sorted out, but in reality it means that completely new class of top level professionals needs to be grown from among PPP approved talent pool as the current ones will never be accepted as they don't show enough respect.

I'm extremly sceptical that this new class will be competent enough to trust with running the country, PPP/TRT have never ever let meritocracy to tarnish their good old school of nepotism, they can grow ass kissers by thousands, not leaders for the next era. And what about time frame? When will their newly schooled Finance Minister will be ready to take over? The country needs him tomorrow, and he hasn't probably started school yet.

Until then farmer Somchais needs to learn to accept voices of knowledgable people they've been taught to detest for being "elites", "Democrats" or whatever. If they unanimously say that PPP government is a disaster in the making, they should at least pay attention instead of being proud of having snubbed "Bangkokian noses".

And the above hasn't even touched on Thaksin, just the regular PPP politicians.

>>>>

If anyone has seen my posts on "new politics", I'm not in favor of appointed Parlament, I'm interested in the idea of selected people from various fields. Say women groups vote on their five representatives, rice millers vote on their ten representatives and so on.

[Pierrot]

Get the picture now? Hopefully, this doesn't have to be explained further.

The picture is clear. Why bother with election ? Old Man River will give us the name of our next leader, everybody else please shut up !

So you still don't understand what happened. I guess you can lead a horse to water...

I do. Hence my answer.

If I read well your last paragraph, what other answer am I allowed ? TIT !

[Pierrot]

We can talk about rural majority's qualifications forever, that's not really the point.

The problem is that they have elected the current government, and the result is a fuc_king disgrace. Everytime someone mentions new elections, they say PPP would win again hands down, and that means there's something seriously wrong with the current system.

It's not about "preferred party" at all - people like Samak and Chalerm shouldn't be allowed anywhere near positions of power in the first place. Mingkwan and Surapong can play tag of war over rice prices as long as it takes, at least they are trying to do some work, but other clowns, like that Health Minister who was like a cancer tumor himself or the wives and other assoroted relatives brigade are a complete waste of time, and so it the parlament. That bunch does not even intend to do any work, they behave as parlament is a place only for skimming off some serious money.

HALF the Cabinet is under some sort of investigations, FIVE ministers, including the PM, can be ousted any minute, three coalition partners are on the block for electoral fraud - this is a problem that has nothing to do with "preferred parties" at all.

It is assumed that the winner of the elections would assemble the best government possible but now NO ONE with any ounce of credibility wants to serve there, we've got spa owner running Finance Ministry, for godssakes, no one else wants to take it, and it's one of the most prestigious posts.

That might sounds ok by rural electorate standards, but if the government has no credibility among professionals and on larger international level, the country has got a serious problem on its hands. Each person might have an equal vote, but when it comes to opinion makers, farmer Somchai endorsement is incomparable to top level economists damnation that spreads like a fire through investment and political cirlces.

I've heard the argument that we should let democracy run its course, bad apples will eventually be sorted out, but in reality it means that completely new class of top level professionals needs to be grown from among PPP approved talent pool as the current ones will never be accepted as they don't show enough respect.

I'm extremly sceptical that this new class will be competent enough to trust with running the country, PPP/TRT have never ever let meritocracy to tarnish their good old school of nepotism, they can grow ass kissers by thousands, not leaders for the next era. And what about time frame? When will their newly schooled Finance Minister will be ready to take over? The country needs him tomorrow, and he hasn't probably started school yet.

Until then farmer Somchais needs to learn to accept voices of knowledgable people they've been taught to detest for being "elites", "Democrats" or whatever. If they unanimously say that PPP government is a disaster in the making, they should at least pay attention instead of being proud of having snubbed "Bangkokian noses".

And the above hasn't even touched on Thaksin, just the regular PPP politicians.

>>>>

If anyone has seen my posts on "new politics", I'm not in favor of appointed Parlament, I'm interested in the idea of selected people from various fields. Say women groups vote on their five representatives, rice millers vote on their ten representatives and so on.

Basically, the majority has elected the wrong government (according to Plus), therefore the majority is wrong. Let's agree we definitively don't have the same ideas of what democracy is.

Then you say "I'm extremely skeptical that this new class will be competent enough ..."

***flame removed--sbk***

[sbk]

Posts have been deleted and edited. It is possible to have a reasonable debate and disagree on topics without resorting to personal insults.

[Tony Clifton]

and press freedom sunrise or have you run away from that too?

No way! As I've suggested reading Supinya (press freedom activist) in the Nation interview from yesterday's paper where she warns about the ultra-conservative PAD and their FOX NEWS look-alike ASTV network.

You can dare compare FOX to ASTV the day FOX dedicates entirely it's news channel to rid it's country frauds instead of applauding them.

[TAWP]

You are saying that they should magically create money, perhaps pick them from the money trees, to build schools throughout the country and helps negate vote-buying by populists?

While at the same time the party in power both use tax payers money to obfuscate the truth, censor media...and en richen them selfs. This is in effect what was going on in 2005-2006.

Yes, you are absolutly right, thats what I meen, just cut down money from tree's You are Swedish? I am to.. Have you heard about taxes, really rightly registerd businesses, stop of corruption, work together for a healthier society. This things will bring Thailand a long way (as you know, we had the same dilemas 100's of year ago), or maybe you are just one of them who thinks it's okay to pay a little bit under, there and then everyday, because you can afford it?

I take it reading comprehension isn't your strong side.

The reply was regarding that the democrats should help the poor to get elected.

How that would happen BEFORE they (or any other party) gets elected is promptly forgotten by the poster I was replying to.

The democrats (or any real honest party for that matter, would one ever come by) cannot win if there are crocks in charge that sits on all the tax money and that aren't afraid to misuse them to ensure they remain in power.

So some of you 'elections solve anything' people might tell us realists how it would go about.

[TAWP]

TonyC>> Your reply won't get to him. He calls PAD extreme right-wing and forgets that the only real extreme right-wing around currently is Samak...

[jumnien]

and press freedom sunrise or have you run away from that too?

No way! As I've suggested reading Supinya (press freedom activist) in the Nation interview from yesterday's paper where she warns about the ultra-conservative PAD and their FOX NEWS look-alike ASTV network.

You can dare compare FOX to ASTV the day FOX dedicates entirely it's news channel to rid it's country frauds instead of applauding them.

You are free to disagree with Supinya's assessment of ASTV, after all the military junta's gone, your free speech is free again!

[jumnien]

TonyC>> Your reply won't get to him. He calls PAD extreme right-wing and forgets that the only real extreme right-wing around currently is Samak...

Free speech activist, Supinya's exact words were ultra-conservative and nationalist when describing the PAD and ASTV. You do have the right to another opinion!

[TAWP]

TonyC>> Your reply won't get to him. He calls PAD extreme right-wing and forgets that the only real extreme right-wing around currently is Samak...

Free speech activist, Supinya's exact words were ultra-conservative and nationalist when describing the PAD and ASTV. You do have the right to another opinion!

And yet you love Samak.,..