Democrat Party May Face Dissolution

[jayjayjayjay]

Explain the personal gain for the military junta! They took over to prevent clashes on the street....

I don't like to call people naive ...but I guess you don't know many people in the military

That means you don't know nothing...just blabla...

h90, You really dont know the answer on that question??you know, this starts to look very silly now just look at the increast military budget when the junta took over, how many billions was it?? On top of that, how much did every (non elected) general get in his pocket privatly before exit? Nobody knows and probably will never know! If you do not understand what I mean, you can always consult you southern wife that you refer to here all the time, or maybe you should do a google and make your own opinion Oh, when you are anyway on it, why not make a google on "international observers" on the 2007 election. I am sure you will find some good info from "the nation"(the only newspaper aload to speak free under military dictatorship). Anyhow, if the junta could not win the election for the democrates, maybe they just have to think about their program instead of blaming voters!

OK, again....

increase of military budget after a strong decrease the years before and still not very high. Can be discussed if it makes sense or not, but I can't see any personal gains on that.

Wouldn't wounder if some generals got something in their pocket, as many politicians get. Unless Thaksin and his cronies there is no evidence that the generals took something. So most probably in a small scale.

At the international observers (correct me if I am wrong in some details), they were 37 which went in 2 people groups (one with mirror??) a short time before the election. The massive vote buying is well known. It is to blame on the military that it allowed it.

I agree that the PPP would have won without vote buying, but that does not make it more acceptable and it would not mean that the same government would have been formed.

Your so naive it makes me cry! Vested interest are what it's all about. Wasting money on military is exactly that, a waste of "my" and other taxpayers money. If governments such as Thaksin's administration focus on bring business ie the "cluster system" (auto business, die making, agriculture, OTOP, tourism etc). Public dollars should be managed like a private business to yield benefit for the entire population. No one in the Democrat party including Aphisit has shown to have a good universal understanding of how to make Thailand shine like the gem it should be...... that's why the majority chose Thaksin, that's why the majority chose the PPP and coalition... Vote buying rhetoric is a waste of your political observer's breath.

[jayjayjayjay]

double post, sorry

Edited July 22, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[jayjayjayjay]

now a triple post, interesting, Mods can you clear this up!

Edited July 22, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[h90]

Explain the personal gain for the military junta! They took over to prevent clashes on the street....

I don't like to call people naive ...but I guess you don't know many people in the military

That means you don't know nothing...just blabla...

h90, You really dont know the answer on that question??you know, this starts to look very silly now just look at the increast military budget when the junta took over, how many billions was it?? On top of that, how much did every (non elected) general get in his pocket privatly before exit? Nobody knows and probably will never know! If you do not understand what I mean, you can always consult you southern wife that you refer to here all the time, or maybe you should do a google and make your own opinion Oh, when you are anyway on it, why not make a google on "international observers" on the 2007 election. I am sure you will find some good info from "the nation"(the only newspaper aload to speak free under military dictatorship). Anyhow, if the junta could not win the election for the democrates, maybe they just have to think about their program instead of blaming voters!

OK, again....

increase of military budget after a strong decrease the years before and still not very high. Can be discussed if it makes sense or not, but I can't see any personal gains on that.

Wouldn't wounder if some generals got something in their pocket, as many politicians get. Unless Thaksin and his cronies there is no evidence that the generals took something. So most probably in a small scale.

At the international observers (correct me if I am wrong in some details), they were 37 which went in 2 people groups (one with mirror??) a short time before the election. The massive vote buying is well known. It is to blame on the military that it allowed it.

I agree that the PPP would have won without vote buying, but that does not make it more acceptable and it would not mean that the same government would have been formed.

Your so naive it makes me cry! Vested interest are what it's all about. Wasting money on military is exactly that, a waste of "my" and other taxpayers money. If governments such as Thaksin's administration focus on bring business ie the "cluster system" (auto business, die making, agriculture, OTOP, tourism etc). Public dollars should be managed like a private business to yield benefit for the entire population. No one in the Democrat party including Aphisit has shown to have a good universal understanding of how to make Thailand shine like the gem it should be...... that's why the majority chose Thaksin, that's why the majority chose the PPP and coalition... Vote buying rhetoric is a waste of your political observer's breath.

I can only recommend to learn history....maybe the 3 pages of a usual travelers guide or if you want to waste more times with facts than wikipedia.

Always under the Democrats the economic went well, while under the Thaksin group there were problems (see 1997). I can't see what thaksin helped any business beside his own. Auto business was strong before he came, he damaged agriculture as he brought the farmers into debts, the OTOP thing was long before, he just gave it a new name.

What you are telling is not naive, it is nonsense, either you are misinformed or you write wrong things with purpose.

[jayjayjayjay]

Explain the personal gain for the military junta! They took over to prevent clashes on the street....

I don't like to call people naive ...but I guess you don't know many people in the military

That means you don't know nothing...just blabla...

h90, You really dont know the answer on that question??you know, this starts to look very silly now just look at the increast military budget when the junta took over, how many billions was it?? On top of that, how much did every (non elected) general get in his pocket privatly before exit? Nobody knows and probably will never know! If you do not understand what I mean, you can always consult you southern wife that you refer to here all the time, or maybe you should do a google and make your own opinion Oh, when you are anyway on it, why not make a google on "international observers" on the 2007 election. I am sure you will find some good info from "the nation"(the only newspaper aload to speak free under military dictatorship). Anyhow, if the junta could not win the election for the democrates, maybe they just have to think about their program instead of blaming voters!

OK, again....

increase of military budget after a strong decrease the years before and still not very high. Can be discussed if it makes sense or not, but I can't see any personal gains on that.

Wouldn't wounder if some generals got something in their pocket, as many politicians get. Unless Thaksin and his cronies there is no evidence that the generals took something. So most probably in a small scale.

At the international observers (correct me if I am wrong in some details), they were 37 which went in 2 people groups (one with mirror??) a short time before the election. The massive vote buying is well known. It is to blame on the military that it allowed it.

I agree that the PPP would have won without vote buying, but that does not make it more acceptable and it would not mean that the same government would have been formed.

Your so naive it makes me cry! Vested interest are what it's all about. Wasting money on military is exactly that, a waste of "my" and other taxpayers money. If governments such as Thaksin's administration focus on bring business ie the "cluster system" (auto business, die making, agriculture, OTOP, tourism etc). Public dollars should be managed like a private business to yield benefit for the entire population. No one in the Democrat party including Aphisit has shown to have a good universal understanding of how to make Thailand shine like the gem it should be...... that's why the majority chose Thaksin, that's why the majority chose the PPP and coalition... Vote buying rhetoric is a waste of your political observer's breath.

I can only recommend to learn history....maybe the 3 pages of a usual travelers guide or if you want to waste more times with facts than wikipedia.

Always under the Democrats the economic went well, while under the Thaksin group there were problems (see 1997). I can't see what thaksin helped any business beside his own. Auto business was strong before he came, he damaged agriculture as he brought the farmers into debts, the OTOP thing was long before, he just gave it a new name.

What you are telling is not naive, it is nonsense, either you are misinformed or you write wrong things with purpose.

Well, I had actually given you some credit for reasonable argument until now. I am beginning to understand my 20 yrs of work here does give me a dame site more intelligence than you. For one, tell me how the wide spread access to drug affected your life in 98 and 99. These were the years my neice, a 13 yrs old, living in the house of my German brother-in-law in Khon Kaen gained access to hardcore drugs in front of her school. She became a drug dealer because drugs were normal!!! Dealers would give her 10 meths to sell during the day in the primary school, when she returned 1000 baht for the 10 tablets he gave her 200 baht, later he gave her 10 plus 2 free tablets, when she returned the 1000 baht to him she had 200 plus another 200 baht, 400 baht for a 13 yr old in Khon Kaen in 1999 was like a fortune!!!!! Methamphetamines were being sold in front of the school like candy. My Brother-in-law and sister-in-law(who ran a very strict house) found 20 plus tablets in her school bag. It was immediately reported to police who came to collect the drugs. The 13 yr old was not even spoken to by the police. She did the same thing 10 days later. What's the moral, why were drugs to accessible to school age primary children, right in front of the school. For me, i had prepared for an exit strategy from Thailand, not easy given serious commitment and assets. Only with Thaksin crackdown on the entire drug business was I given confidence to continue raising my children here. Unless you have been in this situation, a serious dilemma, you would not understand the feeling of a parent, and the thoughts that go through you head every minute your kids are out of site. The government does have a task to perform. I for one don't like police being heavy handed, but at the same time, the Democrat party under Chuan was so weak at the knees on the issue of drug control or education it was becoming a serious threat to Thailand's future.

As for your other comments, <deleted>, OTOP did not exist before. SME did, but the smallest of handicraft businesses did not have an outlet or structure to work for, that's why OTOP thrives today.

For Ag, I worked in this area for all of the 1990's in Thailand. The Bank of Agriclutural Cooperatives has been extending loans to farmers for longer than I can remember. These systems were in place well before Taksin's days. What he attempted to do was alleviate their payment systems, this I will not comment on as I have little knowledge. What they did try to do was clamp down on the sinister loan shark system in place.

So I'm misinformed, well, I live with Thai people, I have 98% Thai friend compared to farang's, I eat and talk with Thai people every day, NOT rich Bangkokian, but the average village person. I know what affects their life on a day to day basis. On top of this I have 700 staff, a majority 30 -40 yr olds women who make the majority of money for their households. I talk all of my staff on a regular basis. If this is misinformed, and my life experiences are misinformed, well you have one over me! Good luck to H90

[Plus]

The Democrats were in power for many years.

Three years from 1997 to 2000 and just over a year earlier in the 90s. TRT was in power for six years, previously the same people were in NAP government for two years prior to the crash, before that it was current coalition parnter Banharn and his Chart Thai.

Even when they were in power, they had to deal with the economic crisis and cut on social welfare as was negotiated with IMF by the previous government.

The idea that Democrats never cared about poor was invented by TRT to keep their stronghold on Isan. You don't see poor people of Suphanburi blaming Democrats, or poor people in the South saying that Democrats never did anything for them.

[A_Traveller]

4J, H90 is right about OTOP, the initial Tambon program was in place in 99 and 2000 {Thaksin became PM in 2001 remember}. His government did apply techniques from the originator of the concept {Oita Prefecture - One Village One Product} with varying degrees of success. Also, unfortunately, the program was used as a conduit for a number of 'curious' activities.

Whist appreciating your perspective on the drugs issue, the results of the 'war on drugs' was a drop in consumption, but there is increasing evidence that this was a short term effect, and as the economy continues to have issues, the conditions are ripe for a resurgence.

Regards

/edit add drugs point//

Edited July 22, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Plus]

the Democrat party under Chuan was so weak at the knees on the issue of drug control or education it was becoming a serious threat to Thailand's future.

Drug abuse is unavoidable during economic crises, still, after Democrats were out it took three years for Thaksin to start killing people for that. It wasn't so bad when Dems were in power.

As for education - it was Democrat Party that pushed for Education Reform Bill, not TRT. At least schools got modern curriculum whith Dems. TRT government completely mishandled its implementation.

The very first minister to resign from Thaksin's government was a very respectable academic Kasem Wattanachai, only after three months working with those clowns. He's a privy councilor now.

I am beginning to understand my 20 yrs of work here does give me a dame site more intelligence

Hard to agree if you think that Democrats are responsible for failed education reform, for example, not to mention other obvious signs of ignorance I mentioned in other threads.

[baanthale]

First PPP breaks as many laws as they can, then they scream "judiocracy". What is "judiocracy" anyway? Rule of law?

Is that what they want to dispense with?

Of course they will never admit that simply following the laws is the best solution to prevent this sort of crisis in the first place.

PPP is trying to initiate "denial of service" attack when the number of cases is so high that the judiciary can't cope with it or consequencies are unacceptable, like dissolution of all political parties.

Which brings us back to PAD "new politics" underlying idea - elected politicians are a total disgrace and the less we have of them, the better, and the underlying reason for that is people who elect them. And these people are not Swiss (in light of the latest post above).

The Democrats were in power for many years.

Three years from 1997 to 2000 and just over a year earlier in the 90s. TRT was in power for six years, previously the same people were in NAP government for two years prior to the crash, before that it was current coalition parnter Banharn and his Chart Thai.

Even when they were in power, they had to deal with the economic crisis and cut on social welfare as was negotiated with IMF by the previous government.

The idea that Democrats never cared about poor was invented by TRT to keep their stronghold on Isan. You don't see poor people of Suphanburi blaming Democrats, or poor people in the South saying that Democrats never did anything for them.

Thats not true. The democrates were head of government between 1992-1995 and 1997 to 2001 when TRT took over!

[Plus]

Sorry, three years from 1992 to 1995.

In 1997 Chuan became the PM in December, next elections were in January 2001, that's three years and two months.

[jayjayjayjay]

The Democrats were in power for many years.

Three years from 1997 to 2000 and just over a year earlier in the 90s. TRT was in power for six years, previously the same people were in NAP government for two years prior to the crash, before that it was current coalition parnter Banharn and his Chart Thai.

Even when they were in power, they had to deal with the economic crisis and cut on social welfare as was negotiated with IMF by the previous government.

The idea that Democrats never cared about poor was invented by TRT to keep their stronghold on Isan. You don't see poor people of Suphanburi blaming Democrats, or poor people in the South saying that Democrats never did anything for them.

What you have missed out is the lead up to 1997 to 2000, with Democrates in power from 1992 to 1995. The Democrate Party has proven to be a fence sitter every time they are in power. Don't upset the elite, feed to poor enough to survive etc.

What you also misinterpret and that is that I hate the Democrates and love all other parties, wrong. I don't believe any parties in the 90's did much in to benefit the country, including governments with Thaksin as a Party MP. Lot's of promisses, little action. What I do admire is the action of the Taksin administration. I don't believe all he did was good, but he did manage to make Thai's feel they were a developing country moving forward with economic growth to maybe another Japan "type" economy in 10 years time. He did bad too, and will pay the price if court finds him guilty! If and when the Democrates show real strength then I will post in their favour also. First move would be to remove the Secretary General Suthep Thuangsuban. I am personal friends with Pichai and Pichit Ratakul, I know and respect some of there senior members of past administrations, I don't respect their performance!

As for acusing me of ignorance, and/or only being a part time poster, what can I say. I do have a full time job and family to run. You offer no substance as to your contribution to this country or history or experiences. You might have 5000 plus posts, but I have not seen any TV rules that state 5000 post TV members have more authority or greater standing in the community than one below there post count!

[clausewitz]

and press freedom sunrise or have you run away from that too?

No way! As I've suggested reading Supinya (press freedom activist) in the Nation interview from yesterday's paper where she warns about the ultra-conservative PAD and their FOX NEWS look-alike ASTV network.

You are joking. Fox has a good range of news. ASTV is nothing more than a voice for carzies like its owner Sondhi (the PAD nut)

[clausewitz]

The drug problem is a shadow of what it used to be. Who can forget the nineties when every week a zonked truck driver would wipe out a bus load of people or a fiend do some dispicable act.

I never thought Thailand would be able to control it as effectively as they have.

[Plus]

The Democrate Party has proven to be a fence sitter every time they are in power. Don't upset the elite, feed to poor enough to survive etc.

Yeah, the "elites" must have loved it when they went bankrupt after 1997 and Democrats didn't bail them out with taxpayers money, like Thaksin, the champion of poor did. Do you remember that the Dems opposed the idea in principle - rich should pay for their own mistakes. "Elites" surely loved that attitude.

As for acusing me of ignorance, and/or only being a part time poster, what can I say.

"Sorry, I mixed up, Prem is not a Democrat party member" would have been enough. Instead you told me that he was from Surat Thai.

You were plain wrong and stubborn, not a sign of developed intellegence, though I'm afraid 20 years living in Thailand can do this to anybody.

You might have 5000 plus posts, but I have not seen any TV rules that state 5000 post TV members have more authority or greater standing in the community than one below there post count!

Post count doesn't make one right or wrong, of course, the mere idea that it might is probably another sign of being here for too long.

[h90]

Explain the personal gain for the military junta! They took over to prevent clashes on the street....

I don't like to call people naive ...but I guess you don't know many people in the military

That means you don't know nothing...just blabla...

h90, You really dont know the answer on that question??you know, this starts to look very silly now just look at the increast military budget when the junta took over, how many billions was it?? On top of that, how much did every (non elected) general get in his pocket privatly before exit? Nobody knows and probably will never know! If you do not understand what I mean, you can always consult you southern wife that you refer to here all the time, or maybe you should do a google and make your own opinion Oh, when you are anyway on it, why not make a google on "international observers" on the 2007 election. I am sure you will find some good info from "the nation"(the only newspaper aload to speak free under military dictatorship). Anyhow, if the junta could not win the election for the democrates, maybe they just have to think about their program instead of blaming voters!

OK, again....

increase of military budget after a strong decrease the years before and still not very high. Can be discussed if it makes sense or not, but I can't see any personal gains on that.

Wouldn't wounder if some generals got something in their pocket, as many politicians get. Unless Thaksin and his cronies there is no evidence that the generals took something. So most probably in a small scale.

At the international observers (correct me if I am wrong in some details), they were 37 which went in 2 people groups (one with mirror??) a short time before the election. The massive vote buying is well known. It is to blame on the military that it allowed it.

I agree that the PPP would have won without vote buying, but that does not make it more acceptable and it would not mean that the same government would have been formed.

Your so naive it makes me cry! Vested interest are what it's all about. Wasting money on military is exactly that, a waste of "my" and other taxpayers money. If governments such as Thaksin's administration focus on bring business ie the "cluster system" (auto business, die making, agriculture, OTOP, tourism etc). Public dollars should be managed like a private business to yield benefit for the entire population. No one in the Democrat party including Aphisit has shown to have a good universal understanding of how to make Thailand shine like the gem it should be...... that's why the majority chose Thaksin, that's why the majority chose the PPP and coalition... Vote buying rhetoric is a waste of your political observer's breath.

I can only recommend to learn history....maybe the 3 pages of a usual travelers guide or if you want to waste more times with facts than wikipedia.

Always under the Democrats the economic went well, while under the Thaksin group there were problems (see 1997). I can't see what thaksin helped any business beside his own. Auto business was strong before he came, he damaged agriculture as he brought the farmers into debts, the OTOP thing was long before, he just gave it a new name.

What you are telling is not naive, it is nonsense, either you are misinformed or you write wrong things with purpose.

Well, I had actually given you some credit for reasonable argument until now. I am beginning to understand my 20 yrs of work here does give me a dame site more intelligence than you. For one, tell me how the wide spread access to drug affected your life in 98 and 99. These were the years my neice, a 13 yrs old, living in the house of my German brother-in-law in Khon Kaen gained access to hardcore drugs in front of her school. She became a drug dealer because drugs were normal!!! Dealers would give her 10 meths to sell during the day in the primary school, when she returned 1000 baht for the 10 tablets he gave her 200 baht, later he gave her 10 plus 2 free tablets, when she returned the 1000 baht to him she had 200 plus another 200 baht, 400 baht for a 13 yr old in Khon Kaen in 1999 was like a fortune!!!!! Methamphetamines were being sold in front of the school like candy. My Brother-in-law and sister-in-law(who ran a very strict house) found 20 plus tablets in her school bag. It was immediately reported to police who came to collect the drugs. The 13 yr old was not even spoken to by the police. She did the same thing 10 days later. What's the moral, why were drugs to accessible to school age primary children, right in front of the school. For me, i had prepared for an exit strategy from Thailand, not easy given serious commitment and assets. Only with Thaksin crackdown on the entire drug business was I given confidence to continue raising my children here. Unless you have been in this situation, a serious dilemma, you would not understand the feeling of a parent, and the thoughts that go through you head every minute your kids are out of site. The government does have a task to perform. I for one don't like police being heavy handed, but at the same time, the Democrat party under Chuan was so weak at the knees on the issue of drug control or education it was becoming a serious threat to Thailand's future.

As for your other comments, <deleted>, OTOP did not exist before. SME did, but the smallest of handicraft businesses did not have an outlet or structure to work for, that's why OTOP thrives today.

For Ag, I worked in this area for all of the 1990's in Thailand. The Bank of Agriclutural Cooperatives has been extending loans to farmers for longer than I can remember. These systems were in place well before Taksin's days. What he attempted to do was alleviate their payment systems, this I will not comment on as I have little knowledge. What they did try to do was clamp down on the sinister loan shark system in place.

So I'm misinformed, well, I live with Thai people, I have 98% Thai friend compared to farang's, I eat and talk with Thai people every day, NOT rich Bangkokian, but the average village person. I know what affects their life on a day to day basis. On top of this I have 700 staff, a majority 30 -40 yr olds women who make the majority of money for their households. I talk all of my staff on a regular basis. If this is misinformed, and my life experiences are misinformed, well you have one over me! Good luck to H90

Drug politic can't replace good upbringing and education.....shooting randomly a few people, no matter if they have anything to do with drugs is not the solution.

OTOP under name has a long history.....Thaksin made a good promotion. He made that good! Hitler built fine highways.....Everywhere you can find some good points.

Instead of hanging around with your Khon Kaen friends and listening TRT propaganda: how about reading some newspapers getting other informations. Bangkok Post and the The Nations were good newspapers in the past. You can watch ASTV...like it or not, agree to them or not....but it would bring some light on the false rumors you believe in.

[Plus]

I once read a report that the vast majority of successful OTOP companies were well-established SMEs that simply added a new OTOP label to them.

Full statistics for the scheme were never disclosed, a warning sign that it was a flop that couldn't sustain itself without massive government intervention and subsidies.

[Los78]

Here is a interesting blog from the Nation for all you Democrat supporters. A interesting read since its from someone from your electoral heartland.

Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola

[Old Man River]

Here is a interesting blog from the Nation for all you Democrat supporters. A interesting read since its from someone from your electoral heartland.

Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola

It is just one individual's opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

[baanthale]

Here is a interesting blog from the Nation for all you Democrat supporters. A interesting read since its from someone from your electoral heartland.

Permalink : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ginola

Wise girl, seems educated as well, but still have a big heart for others, rare combination here I think her opinions should be counted to, even if she is "just one individual"

[Plus]

I'm sure that Democrats complete control over South comes with strings attached. I suspect that openly anti-Democrat businessmen would have a hard time there. I won't be surprised if MPs spend money on vote buying, too.

Afterall, local politicians there are the same bunch of people as anywhere else, just affiliated with Democrats instead of Chart Thai or TRT/PPP.

On the national level there's no comparison, however. Suthep might have a shady past, but come on - fifteen year old land scandal as the only evidence on Democrat corruption???

Actually if you check how Democrats and TRT responded to it - the difference is glaring. Basically Democrats resigned themselves after media campaign run by Thai Rath. Thaksin, by comparison, sued the hel_l out of any critical media outlet and was forced out in a coup.

[hammered]

It has always interested me that on this board anybody who is not an out and out supporter of the Thaksin and Samak governments and who in any way criticises them is immediately labelled a Democrat supporter, a coup supporter, anti-democratic etc etc. There is something lacking in such an analysis.

[baanthale]

It has always interested me that on this board anybody who is not an out and out supporter of the Thaksin and Samak governments and who in any way criticises them is immediately labelled a Democrat supporter, a coup supporter, anti-democratic etc etc. There is something lacking in such an analysis.

I agree with you in some ways, but you can easily turn that and say, why do everyone here atomaticly thinks one loves TRT or PPP, only because one doesn't support coups and PAD?

My feeling is that it have always been so much anti Thaksin and anti TRT posts here from a few people, that some only want to answer to be opposite! I mean mass campaines, thread after thread with everything possible digged up about the guy and the party, everything from silly things like how he looks like and all wrongs with his family, to more serious stuff. Just totaly respectless. Can't be easy to carry so much hate. I thinkt he political information here is very one handed

[A_Traveller]

As to the lacking in respect point, many of us come from cultures where respect has to be earned, and is not a given owing to alleged status {or driving a Benz }. I can recall trying, and probably failing, to explain to a Thai friend the complexities of Tony Blair's wife's dismissive attitude to The Queen {mods please note British} after they saw the eponymous movie with Helen Mirren.

Regards

Edited July 22, 2008 by A_Traveller

[baanthale]

As to the lacking in respect point, many of us come from cultures where respect has to be earned, and is not a given owing to alleged status {or driving a Benz }. I can recall trying, and probably failing, to explain to a Thai friend the complexities of Tony Blair's wife's dismissive attitude to The Queen {mods please note British} after they saw the eponymous movie with Helen Mirren.

Regards

Have it ever occure to you that there is people on this site who don't find much to respect PAD or the Dems for eather, but still do not spend day and night, to dig up crap, witch don't have anything with the politics to do

[Siripon]

There's a lot of strife within the Democrats at the moment. Witoon used a lot of cash in Ubon with little to show for it but it could lead to party dissolution. On top of that, Alongkon, the hard working corruption exposer, lost his seat on the executive board and Ong-art was dismissed as Party spokesman in spite of doing a fine job.

What's Aphisit up to, installing his cronies who love to get in the camera frame behind him?

[jayjayjayjay]

It has always interested me that on this board anybody who is not an out and out supporter of the Thaksin and Samak governments and who in any way criticises them is immediately labelled a Democrat supporter, a coup supporter, anti-democratic etc etc. There is something lacking in such an analysis.

Agreed, but if ones passion is for seeing corrupt government officials brought to justice, then the civil service is where 99% of transactions are taking place. To expect a couple of court cases bringing down tall poppies is the answer, and it may well be, then that is a move in the right direction for democracy. On the other hand, how do we stop a Chemical's inspector refusing to sign off on a container being shipped unless he get's his 300 baht tea money. Refuse and the container worth $300,000 gets delayed 30 days. Report to his superior, get asked for 10,000 baht to shutup and go away. Report all of them, get asked by police for another 10,000 baht to "look" into the case. All at the same time, the produce has staled and $300,000 is down the drain for not paying 300 baht!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I once read a report that the vast majority of successful OTOP companies were well-established SMEs that simply added a new OTOP label to them.

Assuming that's true (there's no source that I could verify), why would that be bad? SME's ALSO were a spear-point of the TRT economic package, and for very good reasons. SME's benefited hugely, as did just about everyone else with the grand exception of, shall we say, 'old money' ?

[hammered]

It has always interested me that on this board anybody who is not an out and out supporter of the Thaksin and Samak governments and who in any way criticises them is immediately labelled a Democrat supporter, a coup supporter, anti-democratic etc etc. There is something lacking in such an analysis.

Agreed, but if ones passion is for seeing corrupt government officials brought to justice, then the civil service is where 99% of transactions are taking place. To expect a couple of court cases bringing down tall poppies is the answer, and it may well be, then that is a move in the right direction for democracy. On the other hand, how do we stop a Chemical's inspector refusing to sign off on a container being shipped unless he get's his 300 baht tea money. Refuse and the container worth $300,000 gets delayed 30 days. Report to his superior, get asked for 10,000 baht to shutup and go away. Report all of them, get asked by police for another 10,000 baht to "look" into the case. All at the same time, the produce has staled and $300,000 is down the drain for not paying 300 baht!

Agreed. There is actually so much that needs to be sorted out. To my mind the current power struggle between a relatively small amount of people is causing more harm than good, and the basic issues you mention will not even be thought about until all the games are over and maybe not even then. It is kind of sad to see Thailand struggle internally and maybe now externally while the country is pretty listless and has been for 3 years now. Relative advantage is being lost to others.

[hammered]

I once read a report that the vast majority of successful OTOP companies were well-established SMEs that simply added a new OTOP label to them.

Full statistics for the scheme were never disclosed, a warning sign that it was a flop that couldn't sustain itself without massive government intervention and subsidies.

The Chonburi Milk Cooperative (or is it collective) was a well established and succesful enterprise that became an OTOP member and dramatically increased the OTOP numbers when it joined. At the time the cooperative said there was no advantage to it to joining except for possibly some free advertising which they also said they didnt need. However, they were pressured to join and as there was also negative effect to joining did.

I dont know how many others did this.

[sriracha john]

Are there any updates on the topic of this thread?