Thai Troops Enter Disputed Territory On Thai-cambodian Border

[Chaimai]

Chaimai, what is this mythical Thai logic that T-D said that Thai's have? Since you seem to support these comments, can you explain to me why someone would say Thai logic is mythical?

OMR - I can only comment on the post that you chose to quote. If you are drawing a conclusion from a previous post then please quote it in future. I am not championing T-D or saying I support his view but I interpreted his "thick" comment as being directed to people on this forum - not necessarily Thais.

Not sure why you wish me to explain "Thai logic is mythical" because that was not my post. However, as you have specifically asked me the question it would be rude of me not to respond.

Personally, I am not sure that Thais, generally, have any concept of logic. They will tend to use/abuse any rule to suit their particular purpose. In my experience they tend to react without any real thought to planning or consequences - perhaps that in itself is a logic, chai mai ?

[Old Man River]

Chaimai, what is this mythical Thai logic that T-D said that Thai's have? Since you seem to support these comments, can you explain to me why someone would say Thai logic is mythical?

OMR - I can only comment on the post that you chose to quote. If you are drawing a conclusion from a previous post then please quote it in future. I am not championing T-D or saying I support his view but I interpreted his "thick" comment as being directed to people on this forum - not necessarily Thais.

Not sure why you wish me to explain "Thai logic is mythical" because that was not my post. However, as you have specifically asked me the question it would be rude of me not to respond.

Personally, I am not sure that Thais, generally, have any concept of logic. They will tend to use/abuse any rule to suit their particular purpose. In my experience they tend to react without any real thought to planning or consequences - perhaps that in itself is a logic, chai mai ?

This will be my last comment on this so you can respond and then let's agree to disagree.

My response clearly wasn't to you as it was directed to the person who made the comment. Hence, I didn't think it was necessary to explain what that person said and when it was said.

I didn't say the comment of being thick related solely to the speaker, only that since the speaker disagreed similarly with the comments made earlier, then the speaker must also be grouped with the rest of us that disagree. Personally, I have no problem with people disagreeing, just don't be rude about it. You are not, the person I was referring to was.

In my experience, some Thai's prefer the herd concept, some don't. As such, I wouldn't say that Thais, in general, have no concept of logic as you have. Stick around awhile and you might change your mind.

[Chaimai]

This will be my last comment on this so you can respond and then let's agree to disagree.

OMR - I am always prepared to agree to disagree. It would be a boring world if everyone shared exactly the same opinion. Happy to leave it there, have a nice day.

[sjaak327]

^ So now no rule of international law for Thais {presumably, because they are culturally different} just like no rule of internal law.

You know the concept that you argue your case to the best of your ability and a panel of judges make a binding decision {you agreed to that when you went into the process}, you decide not to appeal during the period set aside for such an action, and then after all this, you, when it suits you, argue it's not binding.

Regards

/edit typo//

[Plus]

This only complicates the issue beyond most people understanding. Everytime someone says something, there are ten loosely related arguments against something else.

They've got to come to grips with ICJ ruling, historical claims, multitude of maps sketches and diagrams (which all have different legal scope), the size of the site, its historical value, site management, dealing with the current listing state, troops positioning, mine positioning, demining, withdrawing troops to some new lines of defence, dealing with nationalists in both countries, dealing with domestic politics, dealing with international repercussions both in Asean and the UNSC.

Tej should establish a special commission to work on all that, there's no way a foreign minister can deal with it himself, and then Thai FMs don't stay in their position long, unlike Cambodian government.

[Plus]

Oh, and there was a letter from a group of Senators addressed to Unesco among others. I can't find it on the Internet, but they presented a clear case for delisting or reconsideration of their decision.

There was very little mumbling about long lost court case or maps like that presenter at FCC, they went straight to the heart - unilateral listing of the cropped site goes against Unesco's own rules.

[Tod Daniels]

I have my doubts thai senators could collectively agree on the proper way to open a paper bag if the directions were printed on the front.

However, be that as it may. .. ...

Might I suggest you use something called the "in-ter-net" and go to the UNESCO World Heritage Centre site…

That would be this link; http://whc.unesco.org

There you would see that sites are routinely proposed which border two countries, and some of those sites are still in 'disputed territory'. The World Heritage Centre site as well as in the decision for the listing of Prasat Phra Vihear it clearly states; "Recalling that, according to the provisions of Article 11/3 of the World Heritage Convention the inclusion of a property situated in a territory, sovereignty or jurisdiction over which is claimed by more than one State shall in no way prejudice the rights of the parties to the dispute." Although, as you may or may not know, this site NOT in dispute by anyone other than severely myopic thais. The rest of the world and Thailand too (still being a member of the UN last time I checked) is bound by the ICJ's ruling, (no matter how much they don't like it).

What I find truly sad is; without a doubt the easiest access to the site is via the thai side. The chance for the "Land 'O Thais" to capitalize on this, develop infrastructure, open shops, increase tourist trade in the area for locals as well as other income earning potentials are vast. Yet, in their headlong rush to beat the drum about how they were wronged in a decision whose appeal time has LONG since expired, they seem blinded to this fact. Jointly developing the access, and surrounding areas could be a GIANT cash cow for the thais living in that area, (which if anyone has been there you would see those people aren't exactly swimming in baht). It would benefit Thailand much more so than Cambodia.

Another thing I find equally sad is; this entire fiasco over what is truly a miniscule portion of land with little if any strategic or redeeming value to either country is only a smoke screen to breed ultra nationalistic views and hide the fact that both governments; the recently re-elected Hun Sen in Cambodia, and the "Cooking Samak Style" one in thailand have done very little in addressing much more pressing domestic issues facing their perspective constituents.

[Old Man River]

You put a top notch, experienced diplomat in a position of responsibility and you quickly get results. Tej Bunnag made a brilliant move in asking France to help settle the border dispute with Cambodia (as reported in today's Bangkok Post - link below).

It is well known that France was the only permanent member of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) to support Cambodia in bringing this bilateral issue out of the region and into the United Nations. Tej made the request to the French Ambassador to Thailand who, according to the article, said that France's position is that this issue be settled bilaterally, or within the region. Given France has already publicly supported taking this issue out of the region to the UNSC, the Ambassador's comments would appear to contradict what France has already done publicly.

Tej's request to France to act as a mediator would put them in a position where they would have to be impartial if they agree, a role France has shown no willingness to play. Given Cambodia claims ownership of the recent oil finds in the Gulf of Thailand, placating Cambodia these days is in a lot of country's best interests.

Going forward one has to read between the lines to watch this chess match.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news14.php

[Plus]

I have my doubts thai senators could collectively agree on the proper way to open a paper bag if the directions were printed on the front.

See for yourself:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30079394

...as you may or may not know, this site NOT in dispute by anyone other than severely myopic thais. The rest of the world and Thailand too (still being a member of the UN last time I checked) is bound by the ICJ's ruling...

I feel like I've been banging my head on the wall for the past couple of weeks.

Here, let me type it slowly for you.

The original bid and maps of the site, supported by Thailand, included a lot more than piece of land covered by ICJ ruling. These areas have been excluded from the current listing, and Thais have all the rights to protests against this exclusion, this time on pure historical value grounds.

Thailand also has all the rights to reject the jurisdiction of a seven nation commitee over these 4.6 square kilometers. Technically they can even shoot anyone descending further than 4 steps on that staircase for intruding into their territory.

They have all the rights to throw this listing papers back to Unesco and ask them how they could rule that historical value of Preah Vihear is not worth preserving beyond last four steps of a kilometer long staircase.

[sabaijai]

I have my doubts thai senators could collectively agree on the proper way to open a paper bag if the directions were printed on the front.

See for yourself:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30079394

...as you may or may not know, this site NOT in dispute by anyone other than severely myopic thais. The rest of the world and Thailand too (still being a member of the UN last time I checked) is bound by the ICJ's ruling...

I feel like I've been banging my head on the wall for the past couple of weeks.

Here, let me type it slowly for you.

The original bid and maps of the site, supported by Thailand, included a lot more than piece of land covered by ICJ ruling. These areas have been excluded from the current listing, and Thais have all the rights to protests against this exclusion, this time on pure historical value grounds.

Thailand also has all the rights to reject the jurisdiction of a seven nation commitee over these 4.6 square kilometers. Technically they can even shoot anyone descending further than 4 steps on that staircase for intruding into their territory.

They have all the rights to throw this listing papers back to Unesco and ask them how they could rule that historical value of Preah Vihear is not worth preserving beyond last four steps of a kilometer long staircase.

Agree. Most people have no idea what the ICJ ruling really meant, or what it included.

Interesting to see France's reaction, given they drew the 1907 map in violation of a bilateral treaty.

[jimbob]

Tej's request to France to act as a mediator would put them in a position where they would have to be impartial if they agree, a role France has shown no willingness to play. Given Cambodia claims ownership of the recent oil finds in the Gulf of Thailand, placating Cambodia these days is in a lot of country's best interests.

Going forward one has to read between the lines to watch this chess match.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news14.php

I am surprised that Thailand has requested France to get involved.

Why do you think they have done this?

What is the benefit to Thailand?

I thought they were against any third party interference.

[sabaijai]

Tej's request to France to act as a mediator would put them in a position where they would have to be impartial if they agree, a role France has shown no willingness to play. Given Cambodia claims ownership of the recent oil finds in the Gulf of Thailand, placating Cambodia these days is in a lot of country's best interests.

Going forward one has to read between the lines to watch this chess match.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news14.php

I am surprised that Thailand has requested France to get involved.

Why do you think they have done this?

What is the benefit to Thailand?

I thought they were against any third party interference.

I think they're hoping France will support a bilateral, rather than multilateral, discussion. And so far that is the assurance Tej has been given at the diplomatic level, according to the Post article.

[Old Man River]

Tej's request to France to act as a mediator would put them in a position where they would have to be impartial if they agree, a role France has shown no willingness to play. Given Cambodia claims ownership of the recent oil finds in the Gulf of Thailand, placating Cambodia these days is in a lot of country's best interests.

Going forward one has to read between the lines to watch this chess match.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news14.php

I am surprised that Thailand has requested France to get involved.

Why do you think they have done this?

What is the benefit to Thailand?

I thought they were against any third party interference.

You shouldn't be surprised in diplomatic negotiations why anything happens. Diplomacy is a chess match. Tej belongs in this arena, but his predecessors did not. This is why so many people following this in Bangkok were excited when Tej agreed to take on this role.

Why did Tej ask France to get involved and what is the benefit to Thailand? -

Tej asked France to be a mediator to move France out of the picture. France has long been a thorn in Thailand's side on these border issues. By taking on the mediator role, France would have to be seen as being impartial, a role over the years that France has not shown any inclination of undertaking. In fact, in 1941, France and Thailand went to war over border issues that specifically included this temple (Cambodia was a French colony until 1953 when France gave it its independence).

Even as recently as a few weeks ago, France was the only permanent member of the UN's Security Council to support Cambodia in taking this issue out of the region to the UN. This is why the local French Ambassador's response was so interesting, as he said this issue should remain in the region. Either way, the idea is the same. France doesn't want the role of being the impartial mediator (everyone now awaits Paris' official response to the request).

Paris' response will be another move in this chess match. In any event, at the end of the day, Thailand and Cambodia will work this out themselves diplomatically or otherwise.

[Old Man River]

Tej's request to France to act as a mediator would put them in a position where they would have to be impartial if they agree, a role France has shown no willingness to play. Given Cambodia claims ownership of the recent oil finds in the Gulf of Thailand, placating Cambodia these days is in a lot of country's best interests.

Going forward one has to read between the lines to watch this chess match.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news14.php

I am surprised that Thailand has requested France to get involved.

Why do you think they have done this?

What is the benefit to Thailand?

I thought they were against any third party interference.

I think they're hoping France will support a bilateral, rather than multilateral, discussion. And so far that is the assurance Tej has been given at the diplomatic level, according to the Post article.

Sabaijai, it will be interesting to see how Paris handles this request. The French Ambassador's response that it is a bilateral or regional issue is also interesting in that it means the ICJ ruling has no bearing. This is also the way Thailand views it, but my guess is that Paris will revert back to the ruling in order to keep themselves out of having to get involved as the mediator.

[hammered]

Tej's request to France to act as a mediator would put them in a position where they would have to be impartial if they agree, a role France has shown no willingness to play. Given Cambodia claims ownership of the recent oil finds in the Gulf of Thailand, placating Cambodia these days is in a lot of country's best interests.

Going forward one has to read between the lines to watch this chess match.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/020808_News/02Aug2008_news14.php

I am surprised that Thailand has requested France to get involved.

Why do you think they have done this?

What is the benefit to Thailand?

I thought they were against any third party interference.

You shouldn't be surprised in diplomatic negotiations why anything happens. Diplomacy is a chess match. Tej belongs in this arena, but his predecessors did not. This is why so many people following this in Bangkok were excited when Tej agreed to take on this role.

Why did Tej ask France to get involved and what is the benefit to Thailand? -

Tej asked France to be a mediator to move France out of the picture. France has long been a thorn in Thailand's side on these border issues. By taking on the mediator role, France would have to be seen as being impartial, a role over the years that France has not shown any inclination of undertaking. In fact, in 1941, France and Thailand went to war over border issues that specifically included this temple (Cambodia was a French colony until 1953 when France gave it its independence).

Even as recently as a few weeks ago, France was the only permanent member of the UN's Security Council to support Cambodia in taking this issue out of the region to the UN. This is why the local French Ambassador's response was so interesting, as he said this issue should remain in the region. Either way, the idea is the same. France doesn't want the role of being the impartial mediator (everyone now awaits Paris' official response to the request).

Paris' response will be another move in this chess match. In any event, at the end of the day, Thailand and Cambodia will work this out themselves diplomatically or otherwise.

Nicely put. We should not forget that France drew the map, France was the colonial power, France and Thailand went to war, France has a special relationship with most of its ex-colonies. It seems everything goes through Paris and it is in Thailand's interst to take France out of the equation, which will not be easy. It is also probably no coincidence that the main negotiators on both sides were ambassadors to France (at the same time iirc). I wonder if the negotiations take place in French?

They will probably have a bit of a wait for the French response as it is now the French summer holiday.

[marshbags]

BBC News, Page last updated at 09:06 GMT, Sunday, 3 August 2008 10:06 UK

Thais accused over new temple row

Cambodia has accused Thai troops of occupying a temple complex on Cambodian land, threatening to escalate a row over a separate, disputed temple.

About 70 Thais have been at the 13th Century Ta Moan temple complex since Thursday, the Cambodians say.

The Thai foreign ministry has denied any troops have moved into the area.

The two nations have for weeks been locked in a military stand-off over disputed land further east, around the ancient Preah Vihear temples.

High-level diplomacy has been taking place to resolve the Preah Vihear dispute, which revolves around border areas drawn up by French cartographers a century ago.

And an agreement was reached, following a meeting between foreign ministers from both countries, to reduce troop numbers near the temple.

Prevented access

But Maj Sim Sokha, a Cambodian border-protection officer, told reporters on Sunday that Thai soldiers had been making moves hundreds of miles west of Preah Vihear.

He said the Thai troops had been deployed in an 80m (262ft) radius around the Ta Moan Thom temple ground, and had prevented Cambodian troops from entering.

He said about 40 Cambodian soldiers were in close proximity to the Thai troops, but had been ordered to exercise restraint while the government tries to resolve the issue with Thailand.

"[Thai troops] said they will pull back only when the issue near Preah Vihear temple is resolved," he told the Associated Press by telephone.

The Ta Moan complex is in Cambodia's Oddar Meanchey province, which shares much of its border with the Thai province of Surin.

Unquote

marshbags

Edited August 3, 2008 by marshbags

[hammered]

AP reporting it too:

Maj. Sim Sokha, a Cambodian border protection unit deputy commander, said about 70 Thai soldiers on Thursday occupied the 13th century Ta Moan Thom temple in a northwestern border region of Cambodia.

Thailand contends the temple is located in disputed territory.

Thai Foreign Ministry spokesman Tharit Charungvat denied the Cambodian report of troop movements.

Full story at: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h6tp2tO..._HH52QD92AMUV80

[sabaijai]

An interesting turn of events. Prasat Ta Meuan Thom (Thai translit) is regularly listed in both Thai and English-langauge tourist literature as being in Ban Ta Miang, Phanom Dongrak District, Surin Province. Michael Freeman's book A Guide To Khmer Temples In Thailand And Laos lists the temple as being in Thailand, for example, as does Lonely Planet. Thailand's Fine Arts Dept registered the site in 1936.

The last time I visited the site, the border was signed (in Khmer language) to the south of the site. The only road to Ta Meuan is from Surin. Strange that the current news reports automatically assume the temple is in Cambodia. RTA survey maps place the site in Thailand. I assume Cambodian maps, perhaps French maps as well, show it in Cambodia, and that the reality of the situation is that this one of several disputed areas along the Thai-Cambodian border.

English examples:

http://www.travelandnews.com/news/news233-...l-Festival.html

http://www.hotelsguidethailand.com/home/at...n&code=2693

http://wikitravel.org/en/Surin_(province)

For those who read Thai:

http://www.oceansmile.com/E/Surin/Tamean.htm

http://61.19.69.9/~m34b48/27850/pic.htm

[Old Man River]

An interesting turn of events. Prasat Ta Meuan Thom (Thai translit) is regularly listed in both Thai and English-langauge tourist literature as being in Ban Ta Miang, Phanom Dongrak District, Surin Province. Michael Freeman's book A Guide To Khmer Temples In Thailand And Laos lists the temple as being in Thailand, for example, as does Lonely Planet. Thailand's Fine Arts Dept registered the site in 1936.

The last time I visited the site, the border was signed (in Khmer language) to the south of the site. The only road to Ta Meuan is from Surin. Strange that the current news reports automatically assume the temple is in Cambodia. RTA survey maps place the site in Thailand. I assume Cambodian maps, perhaps French maps as well, show it in Cambodia, and that the reality of the situation is that this one of several disputed areas along the Thai-Cambodian border.

English examples:

http://www.travelandnews.com/news/news233-...l-Festival.html

http://www.hotelsguidethailand.com/home/at...n&code=2693

http://wikitravel.org/en/Surin_(province)

For those who read Thai:

http://www.oceansmile.com/E/Surin/Tamean.htm

http://61.19.69.9/~m34b48/27850/pic.htm

There are no ICJ rulings on this one to confuse ownership any more than it already is. Both sides have controlled it at one time or the other.

[who]

I think I must have read a different post - I didn't see anywhere that T-D referenced the speaker as being "thick" (I think 'an impressive resume was referred to'). Nor did I see any evidence of negativity towards Thais. I interpreted the post as a criticism of the biased nature of the presentation/presenter.

You were reading a different post. T-D used 'thick' in post #435 and he seemed to be referring to some of us. Bill

[sriracha john]

Thai border troops to deny further visits by Cambodian troops at Ta Muean Ruins in Surin

The Director-General of the Border Affairs Department under the Supreme Command, Lt. Gen. Niphat Thonglek reported that from this moment onwards, he will not allow Cambodian troops to approach the Ta Muean Khmer Ruins along the borders of Surin province.

Lt. Gen. Niphat affirms that Thai border troops in Phanom Dong Rak district of Surin province have been instructed to prevent Cambodian troops from approaching the Ta Muean structures as it is not an appropriate time for new disputes over territory considering the current Thai-Cambodian disagreement over the Preah Vihear temple.

The Director-General denied rumors that Cambodian troops who were visiting Ta Muean yesterday were attempting to encroach upon Thai territory. He pointed out that Cambodian troops departed peacefully after being asked to do so by Thai authorities.

Lt. Gen. Niphat affirms that Thai border troops are not presently tense over the incident due to their excellent training and ability to communicate with Cambodian counterparts.

- ThaiNews

[sriracha john]

Thai border troops to deny further visits by Cambodian troops at Ta Muean Ruins in Surin

The Director-General of the Border Affairs Department under the Supreme Command, Lt. Gen. Niphat Thonglek reported that from this moment onwards, he will not allow Cambodian troops to approach the Ta Muean Khmer Ruins along the borders of Surin province.

Lt. Gen. Niphat affirms that Thai border troops in Phanom Dong Rak district of Surin province have been instructed to prevent Cambodian troops from approaching the Ta Muean structures as it is not an appropriate time for new disputes over territory considering the current Thai-Cambodian disagreement over the Preah Vihear temple.

The Director-General denied rumors that Cambodian troops who were visiting Ta Muean yesterday were attempting to encroach upon Thai territory. He pointed out that Cambodian troops departed peacefully after being asked to do so by Thai authorities.

Lt. Gen. Niphat affirms that Thai border troops are not presently tense over the incident due to their excellent training and ability to communicate with Cambodian counterparts.

- ThaiNews

[sriracha john]

Prasat Ta Muen Thom is in Thai soil: Army Chief

Thai troops have been stationing at Prasat Ta Muen Thom in Surin province for years, meaning it is in the Thai territory, Army Commander-in-Chief General Anupong Paojinda said Tuesday.

Our map clearly showed that it is in our soil, he said.

However he declined to comment a report that Cambodia tried to send its armed troops across the border to the place with an intention to station there. "We have told our troops there not to use forces or instigate any confrontations at the border," the general said.

The Thai side has repeatedly told the Khmer side at the area to allow demarcation officials do there jobs by not deploying troops there, he said.

Ownership of Prasat Ta Muen Thom became the latest border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia following Preah Vihear Temple. Last week, armed Khmer troops tried to cross the border at Surin to visit the place, only to be rejected at the border. The Thai-Cambodia border has not yet been demarcated.

- The Nation

[Jai Dee]

Troops to pull back from Preah Vihear

Troops will be redeployed from the area near Preah Vihear by the third week of this month, before the second ministerial meeting with Cambodia on the border stand-off, government spokesman Wichianchot Sukchotrat said yesterday.

But troops at Ta Muen Thom temple in Surin would remain, as the temple was believed to be on Thai territory, Army chief Anupong Paochinda said.

Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag told Cabinet yesterday he and his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong agreed last week that both sides would move troops from the Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Pagoda area near Preah Vihear to ease tension.

Cambodia has had more than 1,000 troops in the area while Thailand has some 400 soldiers nearby.

Both sides would maintain a number of personnel necessary for the protection of their respective national sovereignty, the spokesman said.

The two sides would discuss details and complete the redeployment by the third week of August, he said.

Meanwhile, the dispute over Ta Muen Thom temple in Surin province continues as both sides insist on sovereignty over the area.

A meeting yesterday between Suranaree Task Force Commander Kanok Nettaraka-waysana with Cambodia's Odor Meanchey deputy governor San Vanna failed to reach any agreement.

Cambodia's request to have its troops protect the area with Thai troops was rejected, an official said.

San Vanna said Cambodia would not deploy troops to the area in order to maintain peace and good relations with Thailand.

However, a military source said Cambodia's Fourth Army Region Deputy Commander Maj General Po Heng led some 100 troops to an area 2km from Ta Muen Thom temple.

Army chief Gen Anupong declined to comment on a report that Cambodia tried to send armed troops across the border with the intention of remaining there.

Thai troops were there to protect sovereignty as the temple was on Thai soil, he said.

"We have told our troops there not to use force or instigate any confrontation at the border," Anupong said.

The Thai side had repeatedly told Cambodians in the area to allow demarcation officials to do their jobs by not deploying troops there, the Army chief said.

Ownership of Prasat Ta Muen Thom is the latest border row following the Preah Vihear dispute.

Last week, armed Cambodian troops tried to cross the border at Surin to visit the temple, only to be turned back at the border.

Ta Muen Thom is part of the Thai-Cambodia border that has yet to be demarcated and agreed on by both countries.

Source: The Nation - 06 August 2008

[Jai Dee]

Fine Arts Department to present documents showing Thai ownership of Ta Muean Thom

The Director General of the Fine Arts Department, Mr. Kreangkai Sumpachalit (เกรียงไกร สัมปัชชลิต), said that it is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' duty to negotiate with the Cambodian government on ownership of the Ta Muean Thom Khmer Ruins (ปราสาทตาเมือนธม), following allegations by the Cambodian Minister of Defence Gen. Tea Banh (เตีย บัน) that the historical site belonged to Cambodia.

Mr. Kreangkai said that the Fine Arts Department would present documents which showed that the Ta Muean Thom Khmer Ruins (ปราสาทตาเมือนธม) were registered as a Thai historical site, which was maintained and renovated by Thailand over the years. He adds that, in the past, Cambodia has had no involvement in managing the site.

The director general said that the Cambodian-Thai Joint Border Committee (JBC) would determine the exact demarcation point of both nations. UNESCO archaeology expert Peter Skilling (ปีเตอร์ สกิลลิง) stressed that Thailand and Cambodia should not conduct hostile action over the issue, as residents living over disputed territory would suffer.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 August 2008

[jimbob]

My understanding is that 2 out of 3 of these temples are in Cambodian territory according to the 1907 Franco-Siam Treaty.

Anybody have any details on this or opposing views?

What basis is Thailand claiming this land?

[Roadman]

My understanding is that 2 out of 3 of these temples are in Cambodian territory according to the 1907 Franco-Siam Treaty.

Anybody have any details on this or opposing views?

What basis is Thailand claiming this land?

Plus will be here shortly to answer for you...

You may want to get the head bandages and panadol ready for him.

[Chaimai]

My understanding is that 2 out of 3 of these temples are in Cambodian territory according to the 1907 Franco-Siam Treaty.

Anybody have any details on this or opposing views?

What basis is Thailand claiming this land?

Plus will be here shortly to answer for you...

You may want to get the head bandages and panadol ready for him.

Hmmm. On a different topic jimbob might have been accused of living under a bridge !

[Chaimai]

My understanding is that 2 out of 3 of these temples are in Cambodian territory according to the 1907 Franco-Siam Treaty.

Anybody have any details on this or opposing views?

What basis is Thailand claiming this land?

Plus will be here shortly to answer for you...

You may want to get the head bandages and panadol ready for him.

Hmmm. On a different topic jimbob might have been accused of living under a bridge !

Sorry - I have just looked at jimbob's previous posts and I now understand the ongoing debate. I would also compliment him on what appears to be a well-informed, balanced and cohesive view of the situation. As someone who's interest stems from one visit to this marvellous site I have found it an education reading the opposing views. My opinion remains the same as my original gut instinct - it was built by Cambodians, it is on Cambodian soil and international law has ratified it as such.

If nationalistic jingoism could be avoided (on both sides) I can't help thinking that both countries could benefit from proper and careful management of the site.

I am not an expert - just the man on the Clapham omnibus who sees the fitility of drum-banging for diversionary political reasons.

[sriracha john]

Thailand in Wrangle with Cambodia over Disputed Border Temple

The Thai Army insists Prasat Ta Muen Thom has belonged to Thailand from the very beginning, while Cambodia threatens to send its troops to the area.

Defence Ministry Spokesperson, Lieutenant General Peerapong Manakij has visited the Suranaree task force camp to monitor the ongoing conflict between Thailand and Cambodia over the ancient Prasat Ta Muen Thom, after approximately 100 armed Cambodian troops sought to enter the area, but were denied entry by Thai soldiers.

He said there might be some misunderstanding and now Thai authorities have agreed with their Cambodian counterparts on a co-patrol along the border, which signifies good relations between the two countries.

Second Army Area Commander, Lieutenant General Sujit Sitthiprapa affirmed that Thai troops stationed at the Preah Vihear Temple and in Sisaket Province are in good spirits and are ready to act on all orders.

The commander explained that the castle area has been under Thai control for a very long time and the castle has already been registered with the Fine Arts Department as ancient remains.

Regarding claims by the Cambodian media that a Thai soldier stationed at the Preah Vihear border has died because of a cursing ceremony performed in the temple by Cambodia, the soldier's commander said his death was caused by a health problem and has nothing to do with the ongoing conflict.

In the meantime, Cambodia's Phnom Penh Post has quoted an interview with Var Kimhong, Chairman of the Joint Border Committee, stating that Ta Muen Thom is located on the Cambodian side of the border and was under Cambodian control until the Thais moved in on July 27th, and that Thai troops have taken control of Ta Muen Touch since 2001, although it remains on Cambodian land.

The paper said over 500 Cambodian troops from Brigade 42 were deployed to Ta Muen Thom, but access was blocked by Thai soldiers.

Cambodia said they want to negotiate with Thai authorities before a clash erupts. Cambodian Defence Minister Tia Ban claimed Cambodia's rights over the two temples and insisted that Thailand withdraw its troops from the areas.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited August 13, 2008 by sabaijai
emoticons removed