Canadian Family Demands Justice For Pai Killing

[sbk]

On the donations front, well not everyone has equity in their house or savings sufficient to support a legal case on the other side of the world.

Regards

Please be aware that requests for solicitations are against forum rules and any such suggestions will be deleted.

[A_Traveller]

^ Thanks for that, the comment was in response to KerryD's earlier post, my apologies for not clarifying that link in my post.

Regards

Edited July 17, 2008 by A_Traveller

[cloudhopper]

it doesn't look like any of you are signing the petition. i doubt a petition will do a dam_n thing in thailand, but might as well try.

SIGN HERE!: petition

It looks to me like you have to be a Canadian citizen to sign, but it was not my fortune to come into the world there. Best of luck anyway!

[frodo]

True enough. Doesn't seem to matter which gov't is in power (in Canada), unless it's politically expedient, or the center of media attention, little more than "lip service" will be rendered.

One has to remember at the same time though, that there is little Canada could do in this case anyways. It can't force the Thai gov't to do anymore than it is doing.

The case isn't important enough, and Canada doesn't have much in the way of leverage that it could use to try and convince Thailand to do more.

What do people actually think the Canadian government can do ? Fire off a strongly worded letter of protest ? Threaten economic sanctions ? Go to the UN ? Threaten air strikes ? Not likely in any case.

I mean seriously, what do you think Canada can actually do ? The answer is, not much. Period.

And quite frankly, most nations tend to take a dim view of foreign interference in their judicial matters. Attempts to pressure Thailand into taking more action could just as easily back-fire, and result in even less effort to resolve the case than is apparent now. Making comments like this:

"I want their tourism to hurt"

is not going to win them any friends or favourtism in Thai eyes.

I may be a wee bit too cynical, but I wonder just what the purpose of the "Justice for Leo" fund-raising campaign is.

That line struck me as well, along with the 'they' killed Leo, as if all of Thailand were responsible. I wish the Del Pintos the best with bringing the policeman to justice, but I hope they can let go of their apparent vindictiveness towards Thailand and those who earn their daily rice here in the many livelihoods related to tourism. As you say, that attitude won't endear Thai authorities to their cause.

I can see your point of view regarding that all of Thailand shouldn't be held responsible. Nonetheless, I am constantly reminded each day on the forum from one thread or another that "Thailand belongs to to the Thai's...," and with that persistent theme, they are responsible either directly or indirectly. If their tourist money begins to disappear, they need to ask why this is happening and collectively take action which would benefit the country. Continually turning a blind eye to situations such as this, and in some instances, blaming the tourist, and doing nothing can hurt the country as a whole. Even if the authorities won't be endeared, how much are vendors or those related to tourism be ready to lose due to constant incompetence and ineptness of their very own authorities? As long as the people continually allow this to happen with the "mai pehn rai" attitude, they can't be expecting the rest of the world to make sure they earn their daily rice. Nobody is saying that "Somachai the vendor did it," but they can say, "Thailand as a whole (which includes Somchai the vendor) will not take responsibility for the murder of tourists."

Just my opinion.

[judgedredd]

I would argue that the unfortunate killing of the Canadian boy was indeed a murder, but it was a “Crime of Passion”, as opposed to a cold, calculated assassination.

I offer this contrast between types of murders, or motives for murder, as evidence of how well the Thai police stand up to public outcries from foreign influences.

For example, consider the political murder (assassination) of prominent Thai Muslim human rights lawyer Somchai Neelappaijit. Police Lieutenant Colonel Chadchai Leiamsa-ngoun, who was deputy superintendent of CSD's sub-division 3 at the time, was investigated for the crime, tried, and found guilty of only being responsible for Somchai’s kidnapping. Somchai is missing and presumed dead. Chadchai ultimate lost his CSD posting, as did many CSD cops who were part of various hit teams during that era. Chadchai is still free, and he still does some part-time work for the Americans who trained him at Quantico, the American FBI Academy in the USA. (I know this from my contacts in the embassy, the CSD’s, and from other security professionals)

Do a Google for “Somchai Neelaphaijit” (the more accepted English spelling) You will get over 6,000 hits. Every human rights watch group on the planet has been involved in the case, but there was, at the end of the day, no real justice.

Justice for the murdered young Canadian man, Leo, will be even more elusive than for the Muslim attorney Somchai. The Thai police have virtually unlimited power, and they can murder, kidnap, rob, and extort and generally get away with it.

Nothing will change in Thailand unless there is a wholesale change of the Thai police.

If you want justice for Leo, then do your best, as many of you are trying to do here in this forum, to spread the truth far and wide.

Respectfully submitted,

Judge Dredd

[A_Traveller]

^ At the risk of going slightly off topic, though still with relevance, I seem to recall that some evidence had been recovered recently, gruesomely enough an oil drum, which was suggested had been used in the disposal of the lawyer and was to be subjected to analysis by Dr. Porntip's team.

Is my recollection in error and if not anyone aware of any recent developments?

Regards

PS I know the family were made aware of this case as a reference point to how the justice process might function.

Edited July 17, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Tony Clifton]

^ At the risk of going slightly off topic, though still with relevance, I seem to recall that some evidence had been recovered recently, gruesomely enough an oil drum, which was suggested had been used in the disposal of the lawyer and was to be subjected to analysis by Dr. Porntip's team.

Is my recollection in error and if not anyone aware of any recent developments?

Regards

PS I know the family were made aware of this case as a reference point to how the justice process might function.

I haven't heard or read anywhere yet of an oil drum in Somchai's case. There have been many leads which were dead ends. Last was a random dig in a location where DNA samples of 8 different relatively "fresh" bodies came up. What are the odds, going digging for one person and coming back with eight.

[Supaporn]

it doesn't look like any of you are signing the petition. i doubt a petition will do a dam_n thing in thailand, but might as well try.

SIGN HERE!: petition

It looks to me like you have to be a Canadian citizen to sign, but it was not my fortune to come into the world there. Best of luck anyway!

I hope that it does some good... however, like other events that have seen a measure towards justice done by a grassroots petition.... I fear this topic will disappear from TV like others have. Truth hurts sometimes

[girlx]

It looks to me like you have to be a Canadian citizen to sign, but it was not my fortune to come into the world there. Best of luck anyway!

lots of signatures on there by non-canadians.

[Supaporn]

Posts have been deleted. Lets keep this within the realm of the legal please.

Posts are illegal?

[Kerryd]

Posts have been deleted. Lets keep this within the realm of the legal please.

Posts are illegal?

They can be, if they don't fall within the forum rules.

Forum Rules

[leemo]

I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure that justice was served, up to and including resolution outside of the legal system if necessary.

Seems to me Thai justice has already been served...he's been told not to do it again, but if he does there shouldn't be any farang witnesses.

[Artisi]

If and when he ever gets to court the charge will probably be one of stupidity, he got caught didn't he.

[kat]

I would go to the ends of the earth to ensure that justice was served, up to and including resolution outside of the legal system if necessary.

Seems to me Thai justice has already been served...he's been told not to do it again, but if he does there shouldn't be any farang witnesses.

Caustic, but completely true. I didn't sign the petition, because I don't think it would add much value since I am not Canadian, Thai, or an expat.

[HYENA]

After reading lots of this type of activity in Thailand, I think it could be profitable to open Siam Hit Man Agency and distribute a bit of justice desperately needed.

If it were my son or brother, you could bet I would dedicate the next several years into finding out who did it and finishing them off in a discreet manner assisting in bringing appropriate Karma to these murderers.

I don't think there are enough serial killers in Thailand...if one could be motivated and properly directed, the serial killer would be happy plying his trade and families will be relived knowing there was some cowboy justice in the Land of Apathy.

[wayfarer108]

After reading lots of this type of activity in Thailand, I think it could be profitable to open Siam Hit Man Agency and distribute a bit of justice desperately needed.

If it were my son or brother, you could bet I would dedicate the next several years into finding out who did it and finishing them off in a discreet manner assisting in bringing appropriate Karma to these murderers.

I don't think there are enough serial killers in Thailand...if one could be motivated and properly directed, the serial killer would be happy plying his trade and families will be relived knowing there was some cowboy justice in the Land of Apathy.

Thailand already has plenty of hit men, between organized crime and bad cops. Anyone moving in on their territory from the outside would be quickly eliminated.

Besides, what you are advocating – extrajudicial execution - ultimately justifies the cop's action. Not to mention the 2000+ drug war cases. Some individuals may feel 'relieved' by those deaths but it doesn't make them right.

[unforgiven]

True enough. Doesn't seem to matter which gov't is in power (in Canada), unless it's politically expedient, or the center of media attention, little more than "lip service" will be rendered.

One has to remember at the same time though, that there is little Canada could do in this case anyways. It can't force the Thai gov't to do anymore than it is doing.

The case isn't important enough, and Canada doesn't have much in the way of leverage that it could use to try and convince Thailand to do more.

What do people actually think the Canadian government can do ? Fire off a strongly worded letter of protest ? Threaten economic sanctions ? Go to the UN ? Threaten air strikes ? Not likely in any case.

I mean seriously, what do you think Canada can actually do ? The answer is, not much. Period.

And quite frankly, most nations tend to take a dim view of foreign interference in their judicial matters. Attempts to pressure Thailand into taking more action could just as easily back-fire, and result in even less effort to resolve the case than is apparent now. Making comments like this:

"I want their tourism to hurt"

is not going to win them any friends or favourtism in Thai eyes.

I may be a wee bit too cynical, but I wonder just what the purpose of the "Justice for Leo" fund-raising campaign is.

what can Canada do?...1 take away their most favoured nation trading status,2.Place more restriction on thai emigration to Canada.3. More restrictions on thai companies doing business in canada,theres a lot more things they could do that would cost the thai millions of dollars.....................they understand lost money and that police officier may not be worth all that to them

[cloudhopper]

.....................they understand lost money and that police officier may not be worth all that to them

Unfortunately I'm afraid you have it backwards - it's Canada that understands the lost trade is not worth making an issue of it. Sad but reality...

[john b good]

Family of slain Canadian frustrated at lack of progress in Thai murder case

CALGARY - Six months after his son was gunned down in Thailand, Ernie Del Pinto is stepping up his public campaign to get the Canadian government to get involved and ensure justice is served.

"I'm not going to let this go," Del Pinto said Tuesday of his frustrating efforts to have someone found guilty for the killing of his son Leo in January.

A transit bus ad campaign in Calgary is hoped to bring in cash for the newly created 'Justice for Leo' fund. And he hopes public pressure will force Ottawa to do more.

The Department of Foreign Affairs says Secretary of State Helena Guergis has written twice to the Thai foreign minister and continues to press for a thorough and transparent investigation into the shooting.

Foreign Affairs said that the Thai government has appointed the Department of Special Investigations to lead the investigation into Leo's death, and in the meantime they "continue to monitor developments on the investigation closely."

But that's cold comfort for Del Pinto.

"They can monitor all they want. If this doesn't go ahead and get brought to trial, we're not going to get anywhere."

An off-duty Thai police sergeant was arrested and charged with premeditated murder in the case, but as far as the Del Pintos know he is out of jail, still carrying a badge, and still working.

Del Pinto says his son was shot at close range in the face and chest for defending his friend, fellow Canadian Carly Reisig, and did nothing to deserve the attack.

Family lawyer Adriano Iovinelli say an initial Thai police investigation called it an "accidental shooting," but the country's human rights commission and several other boards have since disagreed.

Yet even though it's become a national investigation, half a year after Leo's murder the family still doesn't know if the prosecution has finished its investigation or when or if a trial will be held.

Iovinelli says Ottawa should demand that the Thai government set strict deadlines for court dates to push the matter forward.

And until that happens, Del Pinto says Canadians should avoid Thailand.

"I might be speaking out of line here, but I want their tourism to hurt. Because they've got to understand they killed a Canadian citizen - an innocent Canadian boy."

- The Canadian Press / 15-07-08

Yes, if everyone voted with their feet and boycotted Thailand as a tourist destination and really really hurt the tourism industry in the realm they might (just might) get their <deleted> together.

They are concerned about one thing and one thing only and that is their image (which to many is not all that good)

It's all about money.........

Edited August 9, 2008 by john b good

[Briggsy]

They are concerned about one thing and one thing only and that is their image (which to many is not all that good)

It's all about money.........

Have you not just contradicted yourself with those two statements? You might like to review what you said.

Personally I think their chief concerns are a] money & b] their position in Thai society's hierarchy. (and by extension not being the recipient of any behaviour which would adversely affect that position).

Back to the thread, raising the profile of the case is one of the very few tools, and a weak tool at that, that the father has to push for the incarceration of his son's killer.

[Arkady]

I haven't looked at threads on this topic for many weeks and see that no progress has been made in the case. Sadly this is no surprise due to the political situation. After the initial breakthrough of the DSI accepting the case, my hopes were dashed when the entire top echelon of the DSI who had been involved in investigating corruption cases involving Thaksin and other TRT politicians, were fired by the nearly elected Samak government. The director general of the DSI, a supreme court judge appointed by the Surayudh government to clean it up, was replaced by a policeman and you all know what that means. This case, involving the deeply rooted vested interests of the police to remain above the law, would have been hard enough for the DSI to pursue under its former management but now......

I am not particularly interested in the discussion about the family's campaign to prevent tourists coming to Thailand, as it will have little bearing on the case. I think they have an absolute right to do it and I wish them luck in it but doubt that either the Thai or Canadian governments care very much about it. Canada is not a very significant tourist market for Thailand and few of its citizens will be influenced by the campaign. It would be a different matter if we were talking about China here, which has the power to delete Thailand from its list of approved travel destinations for its citizens and could cause severe famine in the Thai tourist industry. A threat of that type would secure justice within seconds. Even Saudi Arabia's ban on import of Thai workers for nearly 20 years has done little to produce justice for the Saudis in the case of its murdered diplomats or the theft of Saudi jewellery by influential people in Thailand.

What we are talking about is the resistance from those with power in Thailand, particularly the police, to allow the rule of law to be imposed on them. These attitudes have been entrenched since feudal times and it will take more than the loss of a handful of Canadian tourist dollars or even an unenforceable prison sentence against a hi-so crook with a 60s bouffon hairdo to change them.

[sriracha john]

UPDATE... the family's efforts continue...

Calgary Father Meets With Ambassador to Thailand

A Calgary father anxiously awaits a meeting today in his search for answers into the January shooting death of his son in Thailand.

A Thai police officer has been charged with first degree murder in the death of 25-year old Leo Del Pinto, but so far, no trial date has been set.

Ernie Del Pinto will sit down with Canada's Ambassador to Thailand this afternoon and he's hoping the Canadian government can help pressure Thai authorities to proceed.

He specifically wants a court date set.

The officer charged with the murder of Leo Del Pinto has, reportedly, been allowed to return to duty.

- 660 All News Radio (Canada) / 2008-09-08

[PhilHarries]

The officer charged with the murder of Leo Del Pinto has, reportedly, been allowed to return to duty.

Well what a surprise. When will the government of Thailand realise what a disgraceful image this kind of thing projects on the world stage.

But then Thailand hasn't got a government has it? Only a bunch of self serving slimeballs whose main preoccupation is to avoid prosecution for the misdeeds they have committed and alter the rules so they can continue in the same vein.

[sriracha john]

a newer article after the meeting...

Father of Calgarian slain in Thailand gains assurances from Ambassador

CALGARY - The father of a Calgarian shot by an off-duty police officer in Thailand says he's more confident justice will be served after meeting Monday with the Canadian Ambassador to Thailand.

Leo Del Pinto, 25, was killed Jan. 6 in the small town of Pai in northern Thailand during a fight with the off-duty officer, Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat.

The officer has been charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder, but has insisted the shooting was an accident. It's believed Dechawiwat is now off-duty until he goes on trial to face the charges.

Del Pinto's father, Ernie, and his lawyer met Monday with David Sproule, Canada's Ambassador to Thailand. Sproule left without commenting.

However, the father of Leo Del Pinto said he's confident that justice will be served.

"I really am," Ernie Del Pinto told reporters. "I was (worried) because you hear everybody saying, 'You are never going to get justice, you are never going to get justice.' "I think something will come of this."

- Calgary Herald / 2008-09-08

[Kerryd]

A little more detail from this article.

Ambassador reassures father of Canadian slain in Thailand

Colette Derworiz , Canwest News Service

Published: Monday, September 08, 2008CALGARY - The father of a young Canadian shot dead by an off-duty police officer in Thailand says he's more confident justice will be served after meeting Monday with the Canadian ambassador to Thailand.

Leo Del Pinto, 25, of Calgary was killed Jan. 6 in the small town of Pai in northern Thailand during a fight with the off-duty officer, Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat.

The officer has been charged with premeditated murder and attempted murder, but has insisted the shooting was an accident.

Leo Del Pinto, 25, of Calgary was killed Jan. 6 in the small town of Pai in northern Thailand during a fight with the off-duty officer.

It's believed Dechawiwat is has been taken off duty pending the outcome of his upcoming trial.Del Pinto's father, Ernie, and his lawyer met Monday with David Sproule, Canada's ambassador to Thailand.

Sproule left without commenting.

However, the father of Leo Del Pinto said he's confident justice will be served.

"I really am," Ernie Del Pinto told reporters. "I was (worried) because you hear everybody saying, 'You are never going to get justice, you are never going to get justice.'

"I think something will come of this."

Del Pinto's lawyer, Adriano Iovinelli, said they are satisfied with the outcome of the meeting.

"We have been assured that this is a high priority with the Canadian government, that everything that can be done is being done," he said. "Further than that, I cannot get into specifics about the actual investigation."

Iovinelli said the talks between the two governments are confidential.

However, he said the investigation should be concluded shortly and it is then expected the officer will go to trial.

"We understand that he is now off-duty," he said. "We don't have full confirmation of that, but needless to say we've been ensured that three different levels in Thailand have investigated this matter and it's being taken very seriously by Thai officials."

Iovinelli said the family will continue to meet with the ambassador.

Two other Canadians have been shot in Thailand this year. Calgarian Dale Henry, 48, was shot and killed Feb. 3. His wife is accused of hiring a hitman to kill him.

On Feb. 13, 49-year-old Erik Griffioen of Dundas, Ont., was shot while travelling in a pickup truck with his wife and a tour guide.

<H6 class=copyright>© Calgary Herald 2008

Original Article: Ambassador reassures father of Canadian slain in Thailand</H6>

[geriatrickid]

Canadians go to the polls on Oct. 14. The Conservative minority government is looking for a majority. Calgary votes Tory, but it's nice that this bugaboo won't be an election issue now.

[Arkady]

It would be interesting to hear more of what happened to the DSI's investigation after the transfer of its head and senior officers who were working on this case. Even though the case has gone silent, that doesn't necessarily mean it is buried, as the wheels of Thai justice usually creak slowly and it is not a case of much interest to the Thai media. In a country with a high murder rate and a corrupt, trigger happy police force the story was only of passing interest to them because the victim was a farang and because of Carly's apparently colorful social life. Foreign media are now much more interested in scaring away tourists with news about the civil disobedience in Thailand than tourist murders.

Anyway Leo's family should certainly not give up hope. I think we will read about the trial in one or two years' time and acquital is not a certainty,despite the massive influence of the police. Everything is being turned upside down in Thai politics and the justice system and the police may have to sacrifice one of their own for their greater good.

[Loaded]

If any member of his family read this, please know that most expats are outraged at your son's death and feel a great deal of sympathy for your situation. Justice in Thailand is a very slippery path but be strong and persistent and I'm sure justice will be done. Don't give up as that is how the system tries to defeat victims by producing one hurdle after another.

[Kerryd]

However, the father of Leo Del Pinto said he's confident justice will be served.

"I really am," Ernie Del Pinto told reporters. "I was (worried) because you hear everybody saying, 'You are never going to get justice, you are never going to get justice.'

Funny. Those sound like almost the exact same words an Exiled PM spoke when he first returned to Thailand after being thrown out in a coup.

With all the other turmoil going on in the country, and various heads of various departments changing, I doubt this case will get the attention it deserves.

When are the next scheduled court appearance(s) ?

[sbk]

Off topic posts have been removed. Lets show some consideration for the family and keep discussion of current Thai political events out of this thread.