Call For Witness

[digitele]

You confuse some issues here.

Nuay Lop Piset (Special Forces) are trained in their main barracks in Lopburi. Their uniforms are recognized by their red barets. They are army, and they regularly train with US Special Forces such a Green Barets, Delta Force, etc.

Border Guards are not really existing, what you mean to say is BPP, or Border Police, another Paramilitary unit.

But the soldiers shown in the pictures are Dahan Praan, or Rangers, another paramilitary force. You can see that mostly by their black uniforms.

They look like BPP to me and they are deployed in border areas. Call them what you like, I don't care, the point being:

They are Jungle/Border grunts. A thankless job and a difficult one. They don't have a very professional culture by reputation.

As for me confusing them with SF troopers and your obvious thorough knowledge of such matters, well....

[Crushdepth]

QUOTE (pampal @ 2008-07-17 22:29:13)

They certainly look like they know their business

it is their late model weaponry and attitude that shows you this ?

It was the fact they are still awake that tipped me off

It's sad that the Thai government can't solve this issue through peaceful negotiations with Cambodia. Pathetic actually.

[roygsd]

They certainly look like they know their business

Bet you thought that Rock Hudson was a tough guy too

Roy gsd

[roygsd]

Rick, they are not "special forces". They are simply meant to look "tough". Special Forces (as such) do not parade around in public. The SAS & the like may be deemed as special forces but only as an entity. The pics you see of purported SAS (& the like) people, may not actually be their pics.

Ok if they are not special forces what are we going to call them for the sake of this thread?

I have friends that served with the SAS 'Special Air Service' and to me they are pretty special. London embassy seige etc.

Cheers, Rick

Expendable...........................

[digitele]

We should use the correct terminology, especially in a thread asking who exactly the soldiers in the pictures are.

Agreed. You are correct.

They are Dahan Praan, usually translated as Rangers (correct translation: Soldier - Hunter) - an elite volontary paramilitary force. They are not BPP (Border Police), or "Special Forces". This is clearly seen by their uniforms.

'Soldier - Hunters.' My opinion of such titles is very low. Such types are a dime a dozen.

'Free the Oppressed'

Off topic, My rant and my apologies.

Peace

[roygsd]

Also, Thai special forces units are the one thing in the Thai military that aren't complete jokes. They have assisted the U.S. over the decades in quite a few ways and they train with U.S. Special forces.

Vietnam showed the US Forces had the tools to do the job , but not the commitment, dont think these guys need to learn much from the US forces.

Roy gsd

[bangkokrick]

We should use the correct terminology, especially in a thread asking who exactly the soldiers in the pictures are.

Agreed. You are correct.

They are Dahan Praan, usually translated as Rangers (correct translation: Soldier - Hunter) - an elite volontary paramilitary force. They are not BPP (Border Police), or "Special Forces". This is clearly seen by their uniforms.

'Soldier - Hunters.' My opinion of such titles is very low. Such types are a dime a dozen.

'Free the Oppressed'

Off topic, My rant and my apologies.

Peace

The soldiers are know as Dahan Praan to the Thais. As we are in Thailand what is your objection to them being called this?

Cheers, Rick

[digitele]

The soldiers are know as Dahan Praan to the Thais. As we are in Thailand what is your objection to them being called this?

Cheers, Rick

Rick, it really doesn't matter what country it is to me from experience. I have an allergy to 'Macho" and "Tough Guys'

Usually, 'Macho' and 'Tough" aint neither when the time comes. I would like to add that I have nothing against these guys.

All soldiers are manipulated by their governments and basically all governments are evil be design.

To paraphrase Napolian " I have seen men do unbelievable things for little pieces of ribbon"

All soldiers are used and expendable. I am an ex soldier and have had my share of experiences.

Back on Topic....Who are these Guys? They are Hunter - Soldiers. Question answered already.

Best regards to all

[Gimbo]

Special Forces wearing "black clothing" in a jungle? I think not.

This is a stunt to "shock & awe" people.

Special Forces do not swagger around on public display with weaponry.

You've been watching too much television.

I dont watch television as i spend most of my time on TV. Most of the reliable media as described them as the Thai special forces or rangers. Who am i to argue.

Cheers, Rick

Pic No 1 shows what looks like an L1A1 (SLR).

Actually that is a Heckler & Kock G3 of some model. Pretty standard weapon in the Thai Armed forces. I carried one for 3 years myself. But I have never seen a 30 round banana magazine for it like in the picture... but perhaps it is a 5.56 caliber, instead of the standard NATO 7.62 round.

[seagull]

At first I thought my source was unreliable (my tgf). But after reading the posting here, yes, I would say she was right.

These MIB are paramilitaries. They operates parallel to the military. They are special in the sense that their duties are solely to protect borders against direct intrusions/illegal crossing. In other words they are border guards. Special because they are specially trained in jungle survivals as most borders run thru the thick of it. They arn't special like "Special Forces" nor Commandos who have extremely intensive trainings on weaponries and warfare (covert or otherwise).

[kiakaha]

I know a guy in the special olympics

[Gimbo]

Actually that is a Heckler & Kock G3 of some model. Pretty standard weapon in the Thai Armed forces. I carried one for 3 years myself. But I have never seen a 30 round banana magazine for it like in the picture... but perhaps it is a 5.56 caliber, instead of the standard NATO 7.62 round.

Okay, some research and of course it is a Heckler & Kock HK33 5.56 cal.... hence the 30 round mag... getting rusty in my weapons recogizing skills....well, it's been a few years.

[sabaijai]

So now you are saying that those "men in black" are militia? And that those militia are not necessarily highly trained?

Maybe you can answer this question: why are these "people" appearing in pics? Who are these people?

We already know that they are in no way "special forces", so who are they? If they are militia, why such a public display? Or am I missing something about Thailand?

Dahan Praan are not militia - they are paramilitary forces, led by military officers specially despatched for this duty.

They are well trained, and highly experienced in jungle warfare. Their main abilities are in excellent local knowledge, knowledge how to live off the land, combat skills, and quick unburocratic deployment. They are appearing in photos because they are in an official mission. In some of their not so official missions they are not in uniform, and you would not know what they are.

These Dahan Praan are always the units that are sent in first here, and into the worst spots, because they are experienced and expendable.

There are many things that many of us miss about Thailand. And you are in good company - many Thais miss a lot about their country as well...

Anyhow, read that book. And ask Thais what they know, what they think, and what they think they know about Dahan Praan. The best idea to understand these things is to travel to sensitive border areas and meet those guys in person.

Aside: It's thahaan (or tahan if you prefer), ie, 'army', not 'dahan'. Same /t/ as in most English renditions of the /t/, ie, unvoiced and aspirated, like the /t/ in the English word 'top' or 'two'. ทหารพราน in Thai script.

[bina]

This is dirty warfare in disgustingly dirty wars.

show me a clean war.

bina

israel

[Mossfinn]

show me a clean war.

bina

israel

I am afraid I can't do that

Sorry, ajarn, i can pronounce it rather OK, enough to be understood - i can't write it though. Be mercyful, please

Moss

[markuk]

i was goign to suggest rangers - guys remember one mans "special forces" are not considered so by another - such as in the UK the current "special forces" group has many entities not just the SAS, including the likes of the RAF regiment - the term for special forces has been expanded to quick deployment type forces.

With regards weaponry they are carrying 3 types, this wouldn't be uncommon in un-developed countries such as Thailand.

[sabaijai]

Aside: It's thahaan (or tahan if you prefer), ie, 'army', not 'dahan'. Same /t/ as in most English renditions of the /t/, ie, unvoiced and aspirated, like the /t/ in the English word 'top' or 'two'. ทหารพราน in Thai script.

Sorry, ajarn, i can pronounce it rather OK, enough to be understood - i can't write it though. Be mercyful, please

No sweat. At least you know who they are

[solent01]

Interesting thread, my wifes uncle is a man who wears black he keeps offering to take me and the father inlaw hunting with his M16 as long as I pay for all the spent rounds

[Pierrot]

Interesting thread, my wifes uncle is a man who wears black he keeps offering to take me and the father inlaw hunting with his M16 as long as I pay for all the spent rounds

With a M16 ? Hunting what ????

[solent01]

The extended family are on the Myanmar border, and that there is Wild Goat, Wild Boar (Uncle calls it Jungle Pig ) and Deer country, the M16 is 5.56 mm caliber, which when used in semi-automatic is very effective for hunting, or so I am told by the Uncle, he normally returns from his 15 day rotation with something tasty for the family to eat, and every time it's M16'd

Edit: Removed name of town

Edited July 19, 2008 by solent01

[kumaimao]

just want to show some pics of the Thais regular infantry

note: the one with marloon barlet are RDF force or Rapid Deplotment Force (battalion 31)

[kumaimao]

here are some rare pics for SF...

[bonobo]

They certainly look like they know their business

i like how on the third picture the man's shoulder strap is covering his sights on his M16. How can he aim? The gun is for show, and he isn't showing any proficient knowledge of his firearm by blocking his sight. Good luck to him. I hope he never sees battle. But I guess he could do like Rambo and shoot from the hip.

I have known a few people to attach their sling this way.  I personally don't like it, but when you bring your rifle to bear, the sling slides down and yoru peep site is usable.

As far as the posters who say special forces do not swagger or have their photos taken, well, that is entirely up to their orders and the situation.  When the SEALS went ashore in Somolia, theere were more journalists covering them then SEALS themselves.  They all tried to look professional and ignored the reporters and cameras, but that could easily come across as swagger.

I spent 3 years as a recon Marine (then we were not officially part of the US Special Forces as we are now) and have worked extensively with SEALS, Green Berets, and special forces from the UK, Korea, and the Philippines.  While most special forces are a little more fit than the average soldier, sailor, or Marine, the main difference between them and their "regular" bretheren is their mission.  They are not supermen.  It is only that their mission puts them more into the snoop and poop or stealthy action rather than frontal assaults.

[kumaimao]

lastly just a comment for those photo...

it is an HK-33 with 5.56 nato round // made under license from H&K in Thailand not G3...

i would like to share more pics for u guys...

if you guy wanna see more pics just let 's me know.

Cheers!!

[bina]

just caught an article in the maariv, a little blurb about weapons and it turns out that the 95X (micro tabor), an israeli weapon, is being used for 'crowded area' combat (places with little room to manouever)... and being used in thailand 9mm, and 5.56 mm can be interchanged..

it will be the gun of choice for my son's age group going in to army this august in place of the m16 short and long that the rookies get...

bina

Edited July 23, 2008 by bina

[solent01]

Bina, 9mm and 5.56 are the same, just a different way to measure

[Ulysses G.]

I suggest you call them "Thai military men wearing black clothing". Since there is no proof of their abilities plus they have been fully exposed to the public (& therefore to other governments), I see no reason to assume the ridiculous title of "special forces".

Not all special forces need to hide their identities. They are not spies. Perhaps they are crack combat troops rather than want-to-be James Bonds.

[Ulysses G.]

They certainly look like they know their business

i like how on the third picture the man's shoulder strap is covering his sights on his M16. How can he aim? The gun is for show, and he isn't showing any proficient knowledge of his firearm by blocking his sight. Good luck to him. I hope he never sees battle. But I guess he could do like Rambo and shoot from the hip.

I have known a few people to attach their sling this way.  I personally don't like it, but when you bring your rifle to bear, the sling slides down and yoru peep site is usable.

As far as the posters who say special forces do not swagger or have their photos taken, well, that is entirely up to their orders and the situation.  When the SEALS went ashore in Somolia, theere were more journalists covering them then SEALS themselves.  They all tried to look professional and ignored the reporters and cameras, but that could easily come across as swagger.

I spent 3 years as a recon Marine (then we were not officially part of the US Special Forces as we are now) and have worked extensively with SEALS, Green Berets, and special forces from the UK, Korea, and the Philippines.  While most special forces are a little more fit than the average soldier, sailor, or Marine, the main difference between them and their "regular" bretheren is their mission.  They are not supermen.  It is only that their mission puts them more into the snoop and poop or stealthy action rather than frontal assaults.

As far as I and other REMFs are concerned, Marine Corps Recon ARE supermen and at least the equal of any other special forces including the SAS!

Semper Fi!

[bina]

solent thanx i was translating from the article so i maybe i missed something in the translation...? because they were talking about exchanging two different things for size...dont know and cant check cause the article was from yesterday on the net so dont see it today...

whatever...

probably sounds horribly shocking to people anyway to discuss what weapon my kid will be wielding in a year (he delayed his army duty by a year to do a volunteer project in a pre army setup, somehwere in some inner city here.)...

[kumaimao]

just caught an article in the maariv, a little blurb about weapons and it turns out that the 95X (micro tabor), an israeli weapon, is being used for 'crowded area' combat (places with little room to manouever)... and being used in thailand 9mm, and 5.56 mm can be interchanged..

it will be the gun of choice for my son's age group going in to army this august in place of the m16 short and long that the rookies get...

bina

correct me if i'm wrong it is TAVOR ...

attachment pics of RTA with TAVOR... they just purchase about 25000 of them plus other items from israel at the begining of this year