Transferring Funds To Thailand

[almasy1939]

US citizen, hopefully there are some other amcits on this board that can answer these questions.

I am about to buy a condo in thailand. I will move about 260k to my thai bank account. I need a tor tor sam from the bank to show at the land office, correct ? how do I go about getting one ? just ask the bank ? is this different from the advice of transferral they give me ?

What about in the US ? Do I need to submit some form to the IRS when moving such a large amount overseas ? what if I someday want to repatriate these funds, how do I do that without having to pay tax on them again ?

Hopefully someone out there has done this before and can advise me on how to avoid the pitfalls

thanks

[alyx]

Hello

I am not a US citizen but I can answer the first part

When transferring your funds, the bank of origin has to specify that the money is intended for you (namely) to buy a property (you may give the address of the property; even if you change your mind afterwards you will be allowed to modify it)

One precision though the Tor Tor Sam does not exist anymore and has been replaced with the attestation delivered by the the thai bank on the receiving side

For the rest I would suggest that you post this thread on Real estate and not here

regards

Alyx

[alyx]

I might add that this document (provided by the Thai bank) is the one you will need to present to the land department (keep a photocopy of it in order to be able to eventually send the money back to the US if you decide to sell your assets in Thailand)

[ChiefBEM]

US citizen, I will move about 260k to my thai bank account.

What about in the US ? Do I need to submit some form to the IRS when moving such a large amount overseas ?

almasy1939,

The US IRS will not be the challenge.

Homeland Security will be the ones that may very well contact you because of the large amount of funds.

In fact, I would almost say they will contact you for sure before you are able to transfer the funds to Thailand.

Due to the US Terrorist Act, funds in excess of $9,000 require at least Homeland Security forms to be completed at the place you have your funds. Additionally, electronically, Homeland Security monitors all transactions in excess of $9,000.

[ChiefBEM]

US citizen, I will move about 260k to my thai bank account.

What about in the US ? Do I need to submit some form to the IRS when moving such a large amount overseas ?

almasy1939,

The US IRS will not be the challenge.

Homeland Security will be the ones that may very well contact you because of the large amount of funds.

In fact, I would almost say they will contact you for sure before you are able to transfer the funds to Thailand.

Due to the US Terrorist Act, funds in excess of $9,000 require at least Homeland Security forms to be completed at the place you have your funds. Additionally, electronically, Homeland Security monitors all transactions in excess of $9,000.

Then as long as you have something to show what the funds transfer is for I am sure that Homeland Security will not send you to a camp.

[Jingthing]

US citizen, I will move about 260k to my thai bank account.

What about in the US ? Do I need to submit some form to the IRS when moving such a large amount overseas ?

almasy1939,

The US IRS will not be the challenge.

Homeland Security will be the ones that may very well contact you because of the large amount of funds.

In fact, I would almost say they will contact you for sure before you are able to transfer the funds to Thailand.

Due to the US Terrorist Act, funds in excess of $9,000 require at least Homeland Security forms to be completed at the place you have your funds. Additionally, electronically, Homeland Security monitors all transactions in excess of $9,000.

I do not believe this is true. the part about needing to fill out a form in the US for Homeland Security. I do believe Homeland Security is aware of all SWIFT transfers of any amount. IRS is another matter. There is no need to mention anything about transfers to IRS, just continue to file your form and be aware of your obligation to fill out annual report of foreign bank accounts to the Treasury Department if you are required to (read the rules). I have transfered funds in excess of 9000 USD on several occasions, including online SWIFT transfers. I wouldn't expect you will be contacted by HS unless you really are doing something they are interested in.

BTW: your bank may have a dollar limit per SWIFT wire; in that case, you can do multiple wires. Some wire agreements people set up include a dollar limit as a protection.

Also note: on the memo field for your wire if they have one, you should mention address/unit number details about the exact condo you are buying in Thailand.

Homeland Security may be a neo-fascist organization but they really don't need forms to spy on us. Have a nice day.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Jingthing

[justcruisin]

It is also vitally important to notify your bank that you want the funds transferred in $ and then your thai bank will do the exchange.I am not sure of the exact reason but it also shows extra proof that the money was from overseas

[farangmal]

US citizen, hopefully there are some other amcits on this board that can answer these questions.

I am about to buy a condo in thailand. I will move about 260k to my thai bank account. I need a tor tor sam from the bank to show at the land office, correct ? how do I go about getting one ? just ask the bank ? is this different from the advice of transferral they give me ?

What about in the US ? Do I need to submit some form to the IRS when moving such a large amount overseas ? what if I someday want to repatriate these funds, how do I do that without having to pay tax on them again ?

Hopefully someone out there has done this before and can advise me on how to avoid the pitfalls

thanks

That's a lot of money to be moving to a 3rd World Country. Not my business...but are you not better renting?

Thailand will go through monumental changes in the next few years. There's big instability around. Problems with Cambodia. Problems trying to keep in place an elected Government and there's been so much tampering with visas and such like.

It wont get 'Farang friendly' It will probably go the other way.

I would rent. But good luck.

[Chaimai]

It is also vitally important to notify your bank that you want the funds transferred in $ and then your thai bank will do the exchange.I am not sure of the exact reason but it also shows extra proof that the money was from overseas

Simply to get a better rate of exchange.

[sniffdog]

Can't believe this thread is still in the 'Thai Visa' section .... have the moderators dozed off?

[glyph]

"Homeland Security will be the ones that may very well contact you because of the large amount of funds.

In fact, I would almost say they will contact you for sure before you are able to transfer the funds to Thailand. Due to the US Terrorist Act, funds in excess of $9,000 require at least Homeland Security forms to be completed at the place you have your funds."

Oh, what a load of cr*p. Many of US, including me, have transferred funds substantially in excess of 9,000USD, and have never had any problem with US Homeland Security. As a matter of fact, no one has posted that they have had any problem with Homeland Security. Paranoia has invaded LOS.

[NHJ]

do like in movies, transfer 8999 dollars to stay under the radar

[hansnl]

do like in movies, transfer 8999 dollars to stay under the radar

ALL transfers abroad are noted!

Bigger amounts as USD 9000 have to be explained!

[Jingthing]

OK, I agree all SWIFT transfers are noted by Homeland Security, small and large. This is public knowledge. I have never been required to "explain" any transfer. One as large as 75K USD. You may want to add an item to the memo field, you can do this at the bank, or if transferring by phone, tell the operator. For my online transfers using etrade, there is no memo field so it is not an option to "explain" anything.

For the purchase of a condo, I would indeed put the address details of the condo in the memo. If transferring for living expenses, I would say "living expenses". The other poster is correct you must specify that the funds be sent in dollars. I think you would have a big problem if you sent baht for the condo. Not only would you get a bad exchange rate, but it is required to bring in foreign funds for you to buy a condo, if you bring in baht, you have not followed the rules and may not legally be able to buy the condo with those funds.

Now, it is possible for larger transfers, over 100K, over 250K that your bank, or the government will make you fill out an extra form. I am not aware of that. We have alot of Americans here and many have made large transfers. Has this happened to you, or not?

Edited July 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[ChiefBEM]

It is a common known fact that USA Homeland Security does require all financial institutions (in the USA) have a form completed with infromation, provided by the person holding the account and making the transaction, that states who is taking out the funds and what the funds are for if the total amount of the transaction is in excess of $9,000.

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that funds are also tracked electronically.

However, all transactions of sums equal to or in excess of $9,000 are "Flagged" and sorted into separate file folders.

The file folders are separated based on the $ value of the transaction.

I know for a fact that a "BIG FLAG" pops-up for a transaction that is at or exceeds $250,000.

You should be ok as long as the agent on the duty desk believes your motive and the background check he runs on you comes back clean.

Edited July 28, 2008 by ChiefBEM

[Jingthing]

t is a common known fact that USA Homeland Security does require all financial institutions (in the USA) have a form completed with infromation, provided by the person holding the account and making the transaction, that states who is taking out the funds and what the funds are for if the total amount of the transaction is in excess of $9,000.

When did this supposed requirement come into effect? I don't believe it. What about people doing repetitive wires using codes. The whole idea is to streamline each transfer with a phone call. You can't fill out a form over the phone.

[ChiefBEM]

t is a common known fact that USA Homeland Security does require all financial institutions (in the USA) have a form completed with infromation, provided by the person holding the account and making the transaction, that states who is taking out the funds and what the funds are for if the total amount of the transaction is in excess of $9,000.

When did this supposed requirement come into effect? I don't believe it. What about people doing repetitive wires using codes. The whole idea is to streamline each transfer with a phone call. You can't fill out a form over the phone.

The form is: FINCEN Form 104 - Currency Transaction Form.

You can find the form and additional information at the U. S. Department of Justice web site.

The current amount that requires the form is $10,000.

Below, are exerpts from the USA PATRIOT Act (H.R. 3162).

http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

TITLE III--INTERNATIONAL MONEY LAUNDERING ABATEMENT AND ANTI-TERRORIST FINANCING ACT OF 2001

Subtitle A--International Counter Money Laundering and Related Measures

Subtitle B--Bank Secrecy Act Amendments and Related Improvements

If a form is not filled out (as stated in the PATRIOT ACT and provided by the financial institution), it is categorized as smuggling. Some financial institutions will allow the person making the transaction to provide the information to the financial institution. Further information below:

"`Sec. 5332. Bulk cash smuggling into or out of the United States

`(a) CRIMINAL OFFENSE-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Whoever, with the intent to evade a currency reporting requirement under section 5316, knowingly conceals more than $10,000 in currency or other monetary instruments on the person of such individual or in any conveyance, article of luggage, merchandise, or other container, and transports or transfers or attempts to transport or transfer such currency or monetary instruments from a place within the United States to a place outside of the United States, or from a place outside the United States to a place within the United States, shall be guilty of a currency smuggling offense and subject to punishment pursuant to subsection (. "

`( PENALTY-

`(1) TERM OF IMPRISONMENT- A person convicted of a currency smuggling offense under subsection (a), or a conspiracy to commit such offense, shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years. '

It actually is dull reading!

Knock your self out dude!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

ChiefBEM

USA Intelligence Officer, Retired

Now I have to close my account on ThaiVisa.

But it was worth it just to be able to provide the "Truthful" information to those members who want to know the truth!

[who]

do like in movies, transfer 8999 dollars to stay under the radar

ALL transfers abroad are noted!

Bigger amounts as USD 9000 have to be explained!

[Jingthing]

t is a common known fact that USA Homeland Security does require all financial institutions (in the USA) have a form completed with infromation, provided by the person holding the account and making the transaction, that states who is taking out the funds and what the funds are for if the total amount of the transaction is in excess of $9,000.

When did this supposed requirement come into effect? I don't believe it. What about people doing repetitive wires using codes. The whole idea is to streamline each transfer with a phone call. You can't fill out a form over the phone.

The form is: FINCEN Form 104 - Currency Transaction Form.

You can find the form and additional information at the U. S. Department of Justice web site.

The current amount that requires the form is $10,000.

Below, are exerpts from the USA PATRIOT Act (H.R. 3162).

http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

TITLE III--INTERNATIONAL MONEY LAUNDERING ABATEMENT AND ANTI-TERRORIST FINANCING ACT OF 2001

Subtitle A--International Counter Money Laundering and Related Measures

Subtitle B--Bank Secrecy Act Amendments and Related Improvements

If a form is not filled out (as stated in the PATRIOT ACT and provided by the financial institution), it is categorized as smuggling. Some financial institutions will allow the person making the transaction to provide the information to the financial institution. Further information below:

"`Sec. 5332. Bulk cash smuggling into or out of the United States

`(a) CRIMINAL OFFENSE-

`(1) IN GENERAL- Whoever, with the intent to evade a currency reporting requirement under section 5316, knowingly conceals more than $10,000 in currency or other monetary instruments on the person of such individual or in any conveyance, article of luggage, merchandise, or other container, and transports or transfers or attempts to transport or transfer such currency or monetary instruments from a place within the United States to a place outside of the United States, or from a place outside the United States to a place within the United States, shall be guilty of a currency smuggling offense and subject to punishment pursuant to subsection (. "

`( PENALTY-

`(1) TERM OF IMPRISONMENT- A person convicted of a currency smuggling offense under subsection (a), or a conspiracy to commit such offense, shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years. '

It actually is dull reading!

Knock your self out dude!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

ChiefBEM

USA Intelligence Officer, Retired

Now I have to close my account on ThaiVisa.

But it was worth it just to be able to provide the "Truthful" information to those members who want to know the truth!

This is about CURRENCY reporting. For example, you physically take out 20K USD via the airport. This is NOT about SWIFT wire transfers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Homeland Security automatically monitors ALL SWIFT wire transfers anyway.

Amazingly bad info you have provided.

In case you don't understand the difference between CURRENCY and a SWIFT transfer, here is CURRENCY:

Edited July 28, 2008 by Jingthing

[who]

Amounts of US dollars (in various forms) CARRIED out of or into the US must be REPORTED not EXPLAINED to the US Treasury Dept.

FINCEN 104 is for FINANCIAL institutions.

FINCEN 105 is for INDIVIDUALS.

If you are doing a legitimate transaction,don't worry, just do it.

[longball53098]

You can argue about this til the cows come home,,,,,,,,,

I think many of us have transferred money using the swift system in amounts well exceeding this 10k that's being thrown around.

I for one have never been asked to fill out anything. I have been here 3 years now and I do all my transfers online with no human contact other than a keyboard. My bank never asks me anything about any amounts. NO QUESTIONS<<<<<<PERIOD!

If any reporting is being done(which I'm sure it is) then the bank is doing it. NOT ME.

And I have no doubt every dollar that leaves the USA is being looked at. And I believe the larger amounts are looked at more closely.

I have no doubt(big brother) sees it all and every one of us has a computer file on what is happening and if an out of the ordinary thing occurs a BIG RED FLAG pops up and someone notices it and checks up on you.

I have no doubt the US employs people to read or monitor stuff just like this to see what people are trying to get away with.

Just send the money and give the info the bank asks for and no more.

Send it in US dollars

Done,,,,,,,,,,,,quit worrying about the small stuff. Buy your condo and enjoy life------------we only pass this way once!

[ChiefBEM]

US citizen, hopefully there are some other amcits on this board that can answer these questions.

I am about to buy a condo in thailand. I will move about 260k to my thai bank account. I need a tor tor sam from the bank to show at the land office, correct ? how do I go about getting one ? just ask the bank ? is this different from the advice of transferral they give me ?

What about in the US ? Do I need to submit some form to the IRS when moving such a large amount overseas ? what if I someday want to repatriate these funds, how do I do that without having to pay tax on them again ?

Hopefully someone out there has done this before and can advise me on how to avoid the pitfalls

thanks

almasy1939,

I will PM you with the Fin104 form.

Our friend knows ....

However, for you, I would suggest you read the instructions. The instructions make the purpose of the form very clear

Part of instructions:

Section A. Person(s) on Whose Behalf Transaction(s)

Is Conducted. See instructions above.

Items 2, 3, and 4. Individual/Organization Name.

If the person on whose behalf the transaction(s) is conducted

is an individual, put his/her last name in Item 2, first

name in Item 3, and middle initial in Item 4. If there is no

middle initial, leave item 4 BLANK. If the transaction is

conducted on behalf of an entity, enter the name in Item

2 and leave Items 3 and 4 BLANK.

Item 5. Doing Business As (DBA). If the financial

institution has knowledge of a separate “doing business

as” name, enter it in Item 5. For example, if Smith

Enterprise is doing business as MJ’s Pizza, enter “MJ’s

Pizza” in item 5.

Item 6. SSN or EIN. Enter the Social Security Number

(SSN) or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)

or Employer Identification Number (EIN) of the person or

entity identified in Item 2. If none, write NONE.

Items 7, 9, 10, 11, and 12. Address.

Enter the permanent address including ZIP Code of the person identified in

Item 2. Use the U.S. Postal Service’s two letter state

abbreviation code. A P. O. Box should not be used by

itself, and may only be used if there is no street address.

If a P. O. Box is used, the name of the apartment or suite

number, road or route number where the person resides

must also be provided. If the address is outside the

U.S., provide the street address, city, province or state,

postal code (if known), and the two letter country code.

For country code list go to www.fincen.gov/

reg_bsaforms.html or telephone 800-949-2732 and select

option number 5. If U.S., leave item 12 blank.

Item 8. Date of Birth. Enter the date of birth. Eight

numerals must be inserted for each date. The first two

will reflect the month, the second two the day, and the

last four the year. A zero (0) should precede any single

digit number. For example, if an individual’s birth date is

April 3 1948, Item 8 should read 04 03 1948.

Item 13. Occupation, profession, or business. If

known, identify the occupation, profession or business

that best describes the individual or entity in Part I (e.g.,

attorney, car dealer, carpenter, doctor, farmer, plumber,

truck driver, etc.). Do not use nondescript terms such as

businessman, merchant, store owner (unless store’s name

is provided), or self employed. If unemployed, or retired

are used enter the regular or former occupation if known.

Item 14. If an Individual, Describe Method Used To

Verify Identity. If an individual conducts the

transaction(s) on his/her own behalf, his/her identity must

be verified by examination of an acceptable document

(see General Instructions). For example, check box a if

a driver’s license is used to verify an individual’s identity,

and enter the state that issued the license and the number

in items e and f. If the transaction is conducted by an

individual on behalf of another individual not present, or

on behalf of an entity, check box “14d” “Other” and

enter “NA” on the line provided.

The 105 form is:

FOR A PERSON DEPARTING OR ENTERING THE UNITED STATES, OR A PERSON SHIPPING, MAILING, OR RECEIVING CURRENCY OR MONETARY INSTRUMENTS. (IF ACTING FOR ANYONE ELSE, ALSO COMPLETE PART II BELOW.)

[Jingthing]

Just in case anyone actually BELIEVES what the poster above states about the need to sign some kind of Homeland Security for SWIFT money transfers over a certain amount, let me calm you down.

I just did a SWIFT transfer (by phone call using a repetitive code agreement I had previously made with a US bank), it was OVER 10K USD. I wasn't asked to sign anything. I wasn't asked to state a reason. The money was transfered to my Thai bank account in less than 24 hours.

[Naam]

Just in case anyone actually BELIEVES what the poster above states about the need to sign some kind of Homeland Security for SWIFT money transfers over a certain amount, let me calm you down.

I just did a SWIFT transfer (by phone call using a repetitive code agreement I had previously made with a US bank), it was OVER 10K USD. I wasn't asked to sign anything. I wasn't asked to state a reason. The money was transfered to my Thai bank account in less than 24 hours.

Jingthing is right!

"FOR A PERSON DEPARTING OR ENTERING THE UNITED STATES, OR A PERSON SHIPPING, MAILING, OR RECEIVING CURRENCY OR MONETARY INSTRUMENTS. (IF ACTING FOR ANYONE ELSE, ALSO COMPLETE PART II BELOW.)"

does not apply to transfers.