Gay Wedding - Presents.

[tobyarnott]

Let me say firstly, that this isn't about gay people in Thailand but maybe there are some gays in Thailand who will wish to comment. And secondly, the title reference to 'gay wedding' is something of a misnomer.

My sister-in-law's son, who is a relatively immature 21 year-old, recently entered into a formal Civil Partnership arrangement in the UK with his 22 year-old boyfriend. After the formalities there was a meal for some of their friends but the only relatives invited were the two sets of parents. I only heard about it from another relative.

This was the first formalised same-sex union within the family and I am wondering about the etiquette concerning matters such as the giving of presents. Anyone with any experience, or thoughts, to share?

As I indicated, I wasn't invited to the "reception" but as I wasn't alone in that, I don't feel miffed or slighted. I am, though, a little disappointed that neither my nephew nor his parents have told me about the partnership. I imagine he finds it difficult to talk to a straight, elderly relative about his sexual orientation - though I'd like to think that, if he did, he would find me relaxed about it.

Having said that, I'm not wildly enthusiastic about the partnership decision. As an only child, he was indulged by his parents and all his life his every whim would be granted regardless of the cost or inconvenience to them. I can't help feeling that he regards the Civil Partnership business as the current "in" thing – something to impress his friends but which will probably soon prove to be as dispensable as the numerous acquisitions with which he was pampered over the years.

I haven't met his partner so I can't gauge how he views the arrangement. I imagine some people might think that I should be less cynical and thankful that the two of them have opted for a formalised union. Better that than loose living, promiscuity - whatever.

So what do I do? Given that he hasn't seen fit to tell me about the partnership and didn't invite me to the "reception", should I do nothing but risk having him and his parents deduce that I disapprove of his gayness (which, incidentally they have never mentioned to me).

Or should I just set aside my cynicism and misgivings and send him best wishes and a gift? Had it been a heterosexual wedding that I similarly felt doomed to failure, I would likely have done that but then I would undoubtedly have been told about it and probably even got invited to he ceremony.

I'd welcome any thoughts.

[Riley'sLife]

A pleasure to read a well written post. I usually struggle to comprehend the appaling English of most. I'm not "Gay" - just for the record.

In view of the circumstances you set out, I would simply ignore the whole issue and concentrate on your own life!!! Well you did ask!

[buripuk]

Just send a little card as a gesture to wish them well.

So what if you feel it may be doomed or whatever let them just get on with it. I don't know the ins and outs of his circumstances but getting married at 21!?! I know what your saying about gay couples getting married thinking it's the 'in' thing but good luck to all of them. I have 2 gay friends who are a couple and one of them has just (publicly) proposed and the other felt he had to say yes but has confided in me he's embarressed about the whole thing as was happy just the way they where. I wonder how all that will turn out.

[sgtpeppers]

Best wishes and a gift. eg some flowers and a big tube of KY for the honeymoon

[joe552]

I would send a card and a small gift to wish them well. Whether you approve or not, whether you think it will last or was a mistake, is not really important. What is important is your relationship with the young guy. He might even be surprised that you care enough to send a gift.

BTW I'm gay and still don't understand the need for Civil Partnerships (apart from certain legal rights) but the idea of a public ceremony leaves me cold (just my opinion!)

[geriatrickid]

Best wishes and a gift. eg some flowers and a big tube of KY for the honeymoon

That so 1980's. I think the kids today are using other products.

Dunno, why the OP has to consider a gift considering he wasn't invited or told. Perhaps a donation to a charity would do the trick. Serves as a gift to someone that needs nothing, sends a message about doing good deeds and helps a good cause.

[Steve2UK]

So what do I do? Given that he hasn't seen fit to tell me about the partnership and didn't invite me to the "reception", should I do nothing but risk having him and his parents deduce that I disapprove of his gayness (which, incidentally they have never mentioned to me).

Or should I just set aside my cynicism and misgivings and send him best wishes and a gift? Had it been a heterosexual wedding that I similarly felt doomed to failure, I would likely have done that but then I would undoubtedly have been told about it and probably even got invited to he ceremony.

I'd welcome any thoughts.

IMO, the answer is in your final two sentences. You say you would have sent best wishes and a gift if it had been a heterosexual wedding - so why do differently because it's a gay union? From what you say, the key factor seems to be that you weren't invited to the ceremony/reception........... you have to decide whether that "slight" is enough to justify it (maybe) looking like you disapprove of his gayness. Yes, it could be that they thought you might disapprove - so take the opportunity to show that you don't (as it seems). Send your best wishes and a simple gift.

[Steve2UK]

quote removed by mods

Leaving aside your unhealthy obsession with fruit and vegetables, how do you get to "certainly immoral" ? A while ago, I attended the Civil Union ceremony of two guys who had lived together as partners for several years. Far from ridiculous, it was actually quite moving and their Civil Union now gives them most of the legal (and probably all of the essential) rights they would enjoy as a hetero couple - nothing to do with PC and everything to do with boring, practical things like property and financial security.

And, yes - self-evidently you do have something against gay people. Get over it .

[tobyarnott]

Many thanks for the contributions - and for the compliment, Riley'sLife!

Although I don't really think it's my responsibility, I have concluded that it would probably be easier for me than for either my nephew or his parents to clear the air regarding his gayness and the partnership arrangement.

So I will send him a present - once I can think of something suitable. The happy couple are probably already well stocked up with KY, or similar, Sgtpeppers

In the past, when it was becoming fairly clear that he was gay, I thought that, as his parents were probably embarrassed about it, I would try to make it easy for them to broach the subject and that once it was out in the open everyone could be more relaxed. Unfortunately, any time I tried to steer the conversation in that direction they either changed the subject or I chickened out when they failed to pick up on my leads.

Now that it all official - indeed legalised - there should be no more need for pussyfooting.

I have been interested in contributions elsewhere in this forum about peoples' experiences of living in the closet, coming out, etc. and I wonder if anyone has any thoughts they would like to share on how their gayness and coming out impacted on their parents and the rest of the family.

[PeaceBlondie]

Now that a wedding present of sexual lubricant has been suggested, why do we not give K-Y jelly to newlywed straight couples? Come to think of it, maybe some people do that.

[sgtpeppers]

Now that a wedding present of sexual lubricant has been suggested, why do we not give K-Y jelly to newlywed straight couples? Come to think of it, maybe some people do that.

presumably because the juices would be flowing on their honeymoon

[Royale]

Many thanks for the contributions - and for the compliment, Riley'sLife!

Although I don't really think it's my responsibility, I have concluded that it would probably be easier for me than for either my nephew or his parents to clear the air regarding his gayness and the partnership arrangement.

So I will send him a present - once I can think of something suitable. The happy couple are probably already well stocked up with KY, or similar, Sgtpeppers

In the past, when it was becoming fairly clear that he was gay, I thought that, as his parents were probably embarrassed about it, I would try to make it easy for them to broach the subject and that once it was out in the open everyone could be more relaxed. Unfortunately, any time I tried to steer the conversation in that direction they either changed the subject or I chickened out when they failed to pick up on my leads.

Now that it all official - indeed legalised - there should be no more need for pussyfooting.

I have been interested in contributions elsewhere in this forum about peoples' experiences of living in the closet, coming out, etc. and I wonder if anyone has any thoughts they would like to share on how their gayness and coming out impacted on their parents and the rest of the family.

Pleased that you've opted to send him a present. I think he chose the easy way out by just inviting both sets of parents,probably had enough to cope with with just them if they are as you say they are.

My partner and i went away for our CP and had a small party on our return for just immediate family and our two best friends. It was so much easier than having a big do with extended family ,work mates and all other friends. We knew for sure that there were some members of the family that were very unhappy about our CP, so rather than pick some and not others and be so obvious we decided to keep it simple.

Because of the choices we made we got no cards or presents from anyone, i can understand no presents but i think that the odd card would have been nice,but there you go.

It's my partner's brother's wedding soon and the whole world seems to have been invited so it will be interesting to see what reception we get then, if i could stay in bed and pull the duvet over my head i would but i'm just going to have to take a deep breath and get on with it.

It's nice that you've been so thoughtful and understanding and i'm sure that they'll be thrilled to receive something however small as it shows your acceptance.

[cophen]

I have been interested in contributions elsewhere in this forum about peoples' experiences of living in the closet, coming out, etc. and I wonder if anyone has any thoughts they would like to share on how their gayness and coming out impacted on their parents and the rest of the family.

When I came out to my folks my mother turmed round, fixed me with a steely glare and said 'I've known for years. Go and make a cuppa'

My stepfather wasn't very happy about it but there again he was never very happy about anything at all.

[RealityCheck]

You (OP'er) certainly give the impression that your biggest concern is your relationship with the young man.

Your decission to send a gift can only strengthen that relationship, by letting him understand that you support his civil partnership.

As to the nature of your gift.... How about an invitation to him and his partner to visit you for a few days?

[tobyarnott]

You (OP'er) certainly give the impression that your biggest concern is your relationship with the young man.

Your decission to send a gift can only strengthen that relationship, by letting him understand that you support his civil partnership.

As to the nature of your gift.... How about an invitation to him and his partner to visit you for a few days?

Thanks for the replies and your suggestion, RC.

While I'm coming to accept the civil partnership, I'm still not sure that it was entered into in for the right reasons. I'm trying not to be cynical and I'll make an effort to be supportive, but I think I will be surprised if they are still together in a couple of years time.

About an invitation to visit - the idea would need serious thought! As it is, I'm currently in Thailand and they are in the UK and because of work commitments, I don't think they would be in a position to take a trip here. So that's out - but I appreciate the suggestion.

Maybe next time I am back in the UK, I will take them out for a nice meal.

[joe552]

Sorry, Toby, but who are you to decide their decision was not 'entered into for the right reasons'. What ARE the 'right' reasons for doing this? This is your sister-in-law's son, not an immediate relative -I'm just sensing disapproval all around. Do you really accept this young man and his partner? If they just lived together, but didn't go through the formal 'Civil Partnership' ceremony, would you be any happier? I'm not sure if you're unhappy about not being invited to the ceremony or if you have a deeper problem accepting their relationship?

[tobyarnott]

Sorry, Toby, but who are you to decide their decision was not 'entered into for the right reasons'. What ARE the 'right' reasons for doing this? This is your sister-in-law's son, not an immediate relative -I'm just sensing disapproval all around. Do you really accept this young man and his partner? If they just lived together, but didn't go through the formal 'Civil Partnership' ceremony, would you be any happier? I'm not sure if you're unhappy about not being invited to the ceremony or if you have a deeper problem accepting their relationship?

I'm sorry too, Joe - I probably haven't made my thinking as clear as I should have. I have nothing whatever against civil partnerships per se and, as I indicated in my first message, a formalised relationship is, generally speaking, probably more acceptable than some of the alternatives.

My reservations are actually about my nephew, as I refer to him - he regards me as his uncle. I feel, in common with what I understand to be the views of all of the immediate family, that he sees the arrangement primarily as something trendy and fashionable with which to impress his contemporaries. Those views are based on his past form and we could be all wrong. If it turns out that the ceremony wasn't entered into for frivolous reasons then I, for one, would be very pleased - for him and for his parents.

To be quite honest, I was happy not to be invited to the reception - I hate those affairs. I only mentioned the fact because I thought it might be relevant in relation to the "wedding" present issue.

[joe552]

Ah,, young people acting impetuously! I have a nephew of my own who has made some unwise decisions about relationships in the past. And I would love to be able to point out the (to me) obvious mistakes he's making. But it's not really my place. At the moment, he's planning to marry a Polish girl whom all the family love, but to me is 'too good to be true'. I can't tell him that, of course. The good uncle waits in the wings until called upon. Actually, I've found it frustrating that it's not me he turns to - my sense of my importance in his life is not the same as his.

But that's about me. I didn't mean to offend, and I understand your concerns, but however immature your nephew is, he's an adult and has to be allowed to make his own mistakes - and who knows, this could last 50 years!

But do make sure he's aware of your approval - send the small gift and a card.

[peekint]

To the original poster -

What does this have to do with gay/straight?

Just send a gift and a card like you would anyone you know when you heard about good news through the grapevine.

The size of the gift and the warmth of the greeting depends on the closeness of the blood and personal relationship. "I recently heard the great news about your civil partnership/marriage, and wanted to express my deepest joy and satisfaction at your happiness! Please accept this token of my regard for you and your partner and my best wishes that you'll have many happy years together"

An added bonus is that you will have "cleared the air" and you can get on with a normal relationship.

As an aside - get rid of the silly "relatively immature" "coddled" and whatever judgments. Can't you just put all that away and support them? After all, it sounds like you are not close enough to them for your opinion to matter (should any opinion but theirs matter in these kinds of things?). You can only do harm, not good, by being less than completely supportive. It doesn't sound like its your intention to do harm, but motives are sometimes quite opaque. Only you can judge yourself.

[tobyarnott]

Thanks - all of you. I really appreciate the replies and the good advice.