Some 10,000 Pad-led Protesters Rally In Front Of Ptt Head Office

[Plus]

So why did they go out there in the first place, they wanted a reaction? Now they got a reaction! And as they continue it's not over yet, more to come for sure!

If it was the country's military force or government who cracked down on PAD, I would feel something about it, but the reaction came from the all around daily population of Thailand! That should tell PAD everything they need to know, PAD is not asked for, or wanted!

Here's your whole post.

You are saying you don't feel anything about it because it was done by "daily population of Thailand".

[Moonrakers]

baanthale.

I would like to as a simple question: Do you think that the PAD supporters deserved to be attacked, to the point of serious injuries and possibly one death. Do you think that they "Had it coming?"

Simple question. YES or NO please.

NO, but I understand why it happend, after all we are not in Europe now. You now, some people are just trying to make a living out here, avarage Thai salary is 6,000THB/month. This people are tierd of this on going fights about who's going to fill their pockets with most money. Most Thai's I know just want peace and unity!

"had it coming" was from someone who ripped out some text of I post a made, if he quoted the whole post, it would get another meaning.

Fair enough.

Your posts may have been a tad mis-leading because of your English skills, not your fault as after all I don't speak a word of Svensk.

[Meerkat]

This is not true. The PAD has much support in the provinces and doesn't require paid attendees.

I have no idea whether they are paid or not, but seeing as the TRT/PPP has much support (probably even more) in the provinces, and nobody is afraid to spout how they have had paid attendees, I'm not sure how your logic fits.

Also - don't believe what the governor says about there being no fatality. This is another untruth. Damage limitation - I guess.

Thailand - the hub of cover-ups.

As far as I'm aware there's only been one source saying there was a fatality, Veera Somkwamkid, quoted in the press as being a "PAD ally", and even Sondhi's own TOC seems to have taken the report off its website. Seeing as the victim was supposed to be a PAD guard, I seriously doubt anyone could stop Sondhi's media empire from reporting it if it turns out to be the truth.

I hope for the guard's sake you are wrong.

[Moonrakers]

baanthale.

I would like to as a simple question: Do you think that the PAD supporters deserved to be attacked, to the point of serious injuries and possibly one death. Do you think that they "Had it coming?"

Simple question. YES or NO please.

NO- but let me ask you- if a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan orders his starry eyed disciples to march through Compton in full robes- who is really to 'blame' when the shit comes down?

I see your point.

However you did not choose a good example as the KKK are an extreme case and despite maybe "Having the right" to do so, the KKK would be wrong and extremely antagonistic and just plain wrong in doing such a thing.

[baanthale]

baanthale.

I would like to as a simple question: Do you think that the PAD supporters deserved to be attacked, to the point of serious injuries and possibly one death. Do you think that they "Had it coming?"

Simple question. YES or NO please.

NO, but I understand why it happend, after all we are not in Europe now. You now, some people are just trying to make a living out here, avarage Thai salary is 6,000THB/month. This people are tierd of this on going fights about who's going to fill their pockets with most money. Most Thai's I know just want peace and unity!

"had it coming" was from someone who ripped out some text of I post a made, if he quoted the whole post, it would get another meaning.

Fair enough.

Your posts may have been a tad mis-leading because of your English skills, not your fault as after all I don't speak a word of Svensk.

No problem By the way, it's Svenska, not Svensk

[sriracha john]

as long as we're running concurrent PAD threads...

Khwanchai Sarakham, President of the We Love Udon Group in Udon Thani province of Thailand. He also owns radio stations in the city that have incited violence against opposition group People's Alliance for Democracy. His T-shirt shows former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Fascism Thai style

The first fatality in Thailand’s internal war occurred Thursday in the northeast province of Udon Thani. Incited by the We Love Udon Group – a well-organized local right-wing pro-Thaksin support organization – hundreds of opponents to the People’s Alliance for Democracy quickly diverted two police officers who were not guarding the entrance to the PAD’s staging area in Udon.

The PAD was there to broadcast its message to the people of Udon, but apparently the people of Udon were not ready to listen. Armed with knives, sticks, hatchets and clubs, the large group, a human torrent, quickly filed past the policemen and entered the PAD area. They quickly dealt with the unarmed guards, striking them to the ground. The group moved in further, destroying the PAD’s stage, tearing up and burning its supplies and posters, and spitting on PAD T-shirts before trampling them underfoot and setting them afire.

Recorded on video – and already being assembled for criminal litigation against those responsible – the violence was shocking in the extreme. One PAD guard was killed and several dozen others injured.

Compounding the horrendous nature of the violence, there was a matching violent session in the lower northeast province of Buriram where Newin Chidchob, a Thai Rak Thai politician banned from politics for five years, is a powerful political warlord. With another PAD group assembled near the city’s main railway station, a mob of dozens of pro-Thaksin and pro-government forces moved in, smashing, shouting, beating and cursing the PAD supporters.

Both the PAD and anti-PAD supporters were carrying national flags and swearing national allegiance, but only one side was peaceful – the PAD. This is not the first incident, nor sadly will it be the last, where right-wing forces have reacted violently against those with whom they have differences.

What did Thailand’s current nominee government think of the violence? Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung shrugged it off, including the death, saying that if the PAD would keep its protests in Bangkok, “where we can’t stop the protests,” then things would settle down.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said the same thing, apparently indifferent to the casualties and lack of law enforcement to protect the peace.

In a duplication of Samak’s own role in past incitement of right-wing violence against pro-democracy demonstrations in October 1976, using Armored Car Radio as a platform to cause hatred and violent reactions, this time Udon used its own We Love Udon Group radio, FM 97.5 MHz, and FM 94.00 MHz. A program hosted by the group’s president Khun Khwanchai Sarakham, who also owns the stations, incited local listeners by citing the PAD and its followers as despicable persons who must be kept out of Udon.

For his part, after the fatality and injuries of the day before, Khun Khwanchai on Friday admitted to inciting local opposition and rough methods against the PAD. He also promised to continue the violent methods.

“We will throw them out,” he said, “whether they come in tens, in hundreds, in thousands or tens of thousands. Udon belongs to us.”

When a television anchor asked him during the early morning interview if he meant he was going to continue using violent means, he said “Yes.” He added, “Udon belongs to us.”

Udon, along with the other 19 northeast provinces where some 22 million people live and work, also belonged to the Thai Rak Thai and now the People’s Power Party of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. The entire region was part of a landslide victory in parliamentary elections in December 2007, and it is generally very difficult for opposition parties to find freedom to speak, much less set up offices and operate freely without fear of local violence. The degree of intimidation is implicit in the region, and bespeaks of a major inhibition in promoting real democracy in the region.

Khwanchai’s We Love Udon Group Web site, http://www.weloveudon.net/, was created on March 18, with a Bangkok-based IP address. The pro-Thaksin Web site is well-organized, containing an assortment of multimedia, including video and audio clips and recordings of radio broadcasts. The degree of content and organization reflects solid funding, and Khwanchai’s ties with Thai Rak Thai are well known.

What incited Khwanchai and others against the PAD, besides the fact that it is anti-government and pro-democracy? In the Friday interview Khwanchai said he was fed up with PAD swearing at the government and its efforts to spread its message into other provinces. Seemingly unafraid of any criminal litigation coming his way, Khwanchai insisted that the We Love Udon Group would continue and continue using violence until the PAD stopped trying to come into Udon.

When asked whether Udon belonged to him and his group, and whether or not Thai people have a right to speak in public against the government, Khwanchai admitted it only slightly. Instead, he concentrated his reply on the idea that Udon belonged to the people of Udon and he would fight to keep it that way, no matter what it took.

He insisted that "other people should stay out of here!"

- United Press International / 25-07-08

[blaze]

baanthale.

I would like to as a simple question: Do you think that the PAD supporters deserved to be attacked, to the point of serious injuries and possibly one death. Do you think that they "Had it coming?"

Simple question. YES or NO please.

NO- but let me ask you- if a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan orders his starry eyed disciples to march through Compton in full robes- who is really to 'blame' when the shit comes down?

I see your point.

However you did not choose a good example as the KKK are an extreme case and despite maybe "Having the right" to do so, the KKK would be wrong and extremely antagonistic and just plain wrong in doing such a thing.

Why would they be wrong? Even the ACLU defends their right to protest. Is the right to protest reserved for only those whose causes you agree with?

[stumonster]

Is the right to protest reserved for only those whose causes you agree with?

no . only those causes who do not advocate violence

[Moonrakers]

Is the right to protest reserved for only those whose causes you agree with?

no . only those causes who do not advocate violence

What he said blaze.

I don't mean wrong in a constitutional/political sense, but just plain wrong in a moral sense. And NOBODY has the right to advocaye violence.

[sriracha john]

Deputy Agriculture Minister Teerachai Saenkaew (People Power Party)

Behind the Scene of Brutal Attack on PAD Supporters in Udon Thani

The Buriram People's Alliance for Democracy prepared to file charges against the group who staged a violent incident and destroyed the PAD rally platform to stop the anti-government's protest.

Meanwhile, a PAD supporter who was injured in the pro-government rally in Udon Thani province described the savage attack.

A clash broke out yesterday between a pro-government group and the People's Alliance for Democracy in Udon Thani province yesterday.

The pro-government group called themselves the "Udon Thani-patriots." Under the leadership of Kwanchai Praiphana and Uthai Saenkhaew, brother of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives Deputy Minister Teerachai Saenkaew, the anti-PAD group violently attempted to stop PAD supporters who were hosting a stage talk in front of Nongprachak Public Park in the municipality of Udon Thani's city district.

The pro-government group demolished the PAD platform and as clashes took place shortly after, around 20 PAD members were injured in the violent incident, three are in critical condition.

The group led by Kwanchai used wooden bats, knifes, and axes in their attempt to stop the PAD from staging the anti-government rally. Thanyanan Jaradjirawong, a female PAD member who suffered a severe injury in the attack reveals that she was standing in front of the park where the police guard team was stationed to oversee security at the gathering when the Udon Thaini patriot group raided the PAD rally area.

Thanyanan was attacked by a group of males and hit hard on the head until she pretended to lose consciousness.

A witness and acquaintance of the female victim says the male attackers used their feet to check whether Thanyanan was dead and fled when she did not respond. Police officers rushed Thanyanan to the hospital later.

Thanyanan insists she will continue to support the PAD's fight to oust the shadow government for ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Meanwhile, Mahasarakam PAD leader Wachiraporn Kotsan, who was injured by the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship or the pro-Thaksin DAAD suffered severe head pain today and was admitted to the the Konkhaen Hospital. The doctor team says she is in safe condition.

The Maha Sarakham PAD leader says that she will continue her work as a PAD supporter.

Yesterday, the Buriram PAD hosted a rally in front of the provincial rail station, but the activity was stopped by approximately one-hundred anti-PAD members who used rocks and iron bars to attack the police team overseeing security at the rally platform and raided the area to destroy the PAD rally stage.

Some thirteen members of the anti-PAD group were taken into police custody. Buriram police Commander Police Major General Prasit Tamdee says the police will prosecute all the attackers.

Buriram PAD leader, Sopon Petchsawang and several PAD affiliates met to inform the Buriram police at the city district police station about the case and asked that the pro-government group involved in the clash be legally prosecuted as the group has violated the law.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited July 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[blaze]

Is the right to protest reserved for only those whose causes you agree with?

no . only those causes who do not advocate violence

What he said blaze.

I don't mean wrong in a constitutional/political sense, but just plain wrong in a moral sense. And NOBODY has the right to advocaye violence.

In a moral sense? As judged by who? And I agree Nobody has the right to advocate violence- (in fact in most countries, advocating violence is illegal- as is advocating the intercession of another force to kick out the elected government- the KKK is well aware of that in its marches).

but I think you have missed my point- if the a bunch of white power kids get their asses kicked in Compton, doing the bidding of their much more cautious and prudent mentors- who is (not to blame... but)... responsible. Because those poor misguided kids WILL get banged up!

I ask again- would you- or all the people defending the right of the PAD to protest in the manner that they have chosen - extend that same right to the people who will want to protest after the coming coup?

Edited July 25, 2008 by blaze

[sriracha john]

Democrat Unveils Truth on Political Clash in Udon Thani

The Democrat Secretary-General unveiled the truth about the political rampage in Thailand's northeastern region. He said the mob was hired to carry out violence and the party will gather evidence to file charges against the masterminds.

Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban expressed his regret for the collision between the People's Alliance for Democracy or PAD and its opponents in Udon Thani Province on Thursday.

Suthep claimed there is a group that paid locals a cash amount of 30 million baht to make the attack. He asked the manipulators to stop such action as it could backfire, and he called on the public to keep a close watch to the situation.

He suggested that the PAD set up gatherings more carefully.

The Democrat Secretary-General disclosed that there is preparation for a mass gathering in the capital bringing many people from other provinces to join. He says the move aimed at supporting the effort to amend the Constitution.

Regarding information that Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung made a phone call to congratulate Kwanchai Praiphana, a leader of the pro-government group in Udon Thani, Suthep said it is unacceptable and if it is true, Chalerm does not deserve to be the minister anymore.

Currently, the opposition party is collecting evidence to file prosecution against everyone who had planned the attack.

- Thailand Outlook

[sriracha john]

Senate Committee Urges Immediate Investigation of Udon Thani Clash

The Senate Committee on Human Rights demanded that the clash involving the pro-government Udon Thani patriot group be investigated quickly. The Senate team is preparing to collect evidence to bring up the topic at the senate meeting.

The Senate Committee on Human Rights, Rights and Freedoms, and Consumer Protection, led by Senator Somchai Sawaengkan, says the committee is gathering evidence regarding yesterday's clash involving the pro-government group calling themselves the "Udon Thani Patriots", after they raided the Udon Thani PAD rally.

Somchai says the senate committee is preparing to include the issue as a topic at the senate committee meeting. One question is why the police team overseeing security at the gathering is not pushing their operation to keep the situation under control despite a major incident having occurred when the authority team was stationed in the area.

The senators urge the government to look into the case seriously to prevent similar events from occurring.

Meanwhile, regarding the PAD's criticism of the Interior Ministry for its failure to provide efficient security, Interior Ministry Permanent-Secretary, Pongpayom Wasaputi states that the Udon Thani and Buriram Governors have done their best and they will not be punished for the violent clash.

Pongpayom says the anti-PAD group is large, which made it difficult to keep the situation under control. The Interior Ministry Permanent Secretary adds, however, that if any governors are found not to be performing their duties efficiently, a transfer order will be issued. He says the police will supervise the investigation related to yesterday's clash.

- Thailand Outlook

[blaze]

Democrat Unveils Truth on Political Clash in Udon Thani

The Democrat Secretary-General unveiled the truth about the political rampage in Thailand's northeastern region. He said the mob was hired to carry out violence and the party will gather evidence to file charges against the masterminds.

Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban expressed his regret for the collision between the People's Alliance for Democracy or PAD and its opponents in Udon Thani Province on Thursday.

Suthep claimed there is a group that paid locals a cash amount of 30 million baht to make the attack. He asked the manipulators to stop such action as it could backfire, and he called on the public to keep a close watch to the situation.

He suggested that the PAD set up gatherings more carefully.

The Democrat Secretary-General disclosed that there is preparation for a mass gathering in the capital bringing many people from other provinces to join. He says the move aimed at supporting the effort to amend the Constitution.

Regarding information that Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung made a phone call to congratulate Kwanchai Praiphana, a leader of the pro-government group in Udon Thani, Suthep said it is unacceptable and if it is true, Chalerm does not deserve to be the minister anymore.

Currently, the opposition party is collecting evidence to file prosecution against everyone who had planned the attack.

- Thailand Outlook

And to whom did Suthep 'reveal' this truth? The police and prosecutors, I would hope. Though that isn 't stated.

Odd that this particular news outlet didn't press him for more precise information (not!!)

Edited July 25, 2008 by blaze

[Moonrakers]

Is the right to protest reserved for only those whose causes you agree with?

no . only those causes who do not advocate violence

What he said blaze.

I don't mean wrong in a constitutional/political sense, but just plain wrong in a moral sense. And NOBODY has the right to advocaye violence.

I ask again- would you- or all the people defending the right of the PAD to protest in the manner that they have chosen - extend that same right to the people who will want to protest after the coming coup?

A plain and simple YES.

They WILL have the right to protest. And they WILL have the right to be protected against violence from their opposition.

In another thread, somebody quoted something along the lines of: "I will fight to the death against the fascists, and I will also fight to the death for a persons right to be a fascist"

Maybe somebody else could clarify/enhance that quote for me. But, for me, it defines democracy to a tee.

[blaze]

Is the right to protest reserved for only those whose causes you agree with?

no . only those causes who do not advocate violence

What he said blaze.

I don't mean wrong in a constitutional/political sense, but just plain wrong in a moral sense. And NOBODY has the right to advocaye violence.

I ask again- would you- or all the people defending the right of the PAD to protest in the manner that they have chosen - extend that same right to the people who will want to protest after the coming coup?

A plain and simple YES.

They WILL have the right to protest. And they WILL have the right to be protected against violence from their opposition.

In another thread, somebody quoted something along the lines of: "I will fight to the death against the fascists, and I will also fight to the death for a persons right to be a fascist"

Maybe somebody else could clarify/enhance that quote for me. But, for me, it defines democracy to a tee.

Interesting quote- most military regimes- including those in Thailand- would not fight for your right to support a movement that endorses armed overthrow of current governments (which fascism by definition does) = they might, as the last one here did- allow a bit of rein- as long as you don't represent a threat. When your numbers approach the 10 thousand mark- and when your protest is resulting in violence- I can't think of a single military appointed regime in history that would 'defend your right'.

But we will probably get a good chance to test your thesis in the next year- because this time around, I doubt the populace will be so complacent.

[Nampeung]

Exactly Plus, Udon Gov or media???

One thing is that none of this crowd of attackers are real Buddhists !!!

[tracer]

I knew it, it would come You people have spoken about vote buying done by PPP and TRT since years here in post after post. When someone asked how you know, answer have been Iv'e heard it or my sisters kusin saw it. Now when someone says that the PAD cronies pays people to join, we hear that it must be wrong, and that someone saw it, it's not good enough No, no, the PAD and the Democrates are all made up of saints It's beyond me how enyone can be so naive

Its NOT the same as vote buting.. At least in Phuket they seem to take the money but not vote for the guys...

[MaiChai]

Ah, its depressing. The longer you stay in Thailand, the more you see 'under the hood', and what is under there is ugly. So we started off with a nice climate, beautiful beaches, smiling happy beautiful people, and after some years we end up seeing an extremely corrupt society where law is not enforced, money is absolute power and if you have it you can buy whatever you want...

Edited July 25, 2008 by MaiChai

[TAWP]

baanthale.

I would like to as a simple question: Do you think that the PAD supporters deserved to be attacked, to the point of serious injuries and possibly one death. Do you think that they "Had it coming?"

Simple question. YES or NO please.

NO- but let me ask you- if a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan orders his starry eyed disciples to march through Compton in full robes- who is really to 'blame' when the shit comes down?

The attackers.

[NanLaew]

Fascism Thai style[/b]

Udon, along with the other 19 northeast provinces where some 22 million people live and work, also belonged to the Thai Rak Thai and now the People’s Power Party of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej. The entire region was part of a landslide victory in parliamentary elections in December 2007, and it is generally very difficult for opposition parties to find freedom to speak, much less set up offices and operate freely without fear of local violence. The degree of intimidation is implicit in the region, and bespeaks of a major inhibition in promoting real democracy in the region.

- United Press International / 25-07-08

That's sounds pretty strong. It's not hard to see where the allegiance of the UPI Bangkok stringer lies. Seems like his/her idea of democracy is that even if my party lost the popular vote, my party should still get the job.

So the traditional political opposition 'parties' with their Bangkok-based special interests mentality are shocked that those dumb northeasterners have twice used the democratic processes available to them to vote for the wrong guy. These parties can't think beyond their next mealticket so with one eye on the clock that shows time is fast running out for them to get their noses in the trough, it's left to this populist PAD (who are not even a political party) to go forth into these poor misguided provinces and show them the error of their ways. So the nice peaceful, yellow-clad PAD 'missionaries' get their asses wooped twice in the same day. Too bad. In the old days missionaries usually got eaten.

[TAWP]

Reading isn't your strong side?

[pete_r]

I would be very suspicious about reports saying that PAD hied people to attend a rally about PTT privatisation. They have not needed to hire people in the past and I see no reason why they should start now. Added to which PTT privatisation was always a sensitive issue that many politically aware Thais, plus the bulk of the unions, were always against and were savvy to the fact that Toxin was trying to push it through under the table so he and his buddies could handsomely profit from a public asset at no cost to themselves i.e. policy corruption of the biggest scale. Now Samak, Toxin's puppet is in, then no doubt it has been pushed some more and PAD are aware of this and want to bring it back to the public's attention how the country is being robbed blind by a few people.

Furthermore, there are many more than 10,000 people who would gladly rally for this issue without being paid, plus there is an active govt misinformation and slander machine at work trying to undermine everything the PAD do, so who to believe. Perhaps Pete R could provide proof of his assertions beyong soi gossip?

Well, whatever I write is going to be forum gossip for you, that's a limitation of anonymous internet forums.

But here goes: My father in law goes to these PAD demonstrations, he gets paid and talks about it. My Thai is good enough to understand what he says, and my wife is there to translate in English and confirm what I hear.

As I said, for you it is "the father in law of someone on the internet said...", and you are free to believe it or not.

For me it is first hand information from the mouth of a very close relative whom I've seen go to these protests. You'll understand that my opinion of the PAD has not improved.

I cannot provide more proof than that, but I encourage you and others on this forum to do your own investigations. The PAD is not the clean guys they claim to be.

Edit: I've just re-read your first sentence: For accuracy's sake, father in law did not participate to the PTT protest, but he goes to the friday evening ones for the last 2 months, and gets 300 Bahts for it each time.

Edited July 28, 2008 by pete_r

[TAWP]

This isn't new or unique to Thailand. For example every larger Union has a strike-treasure to 'help' their members at times of strike by making sure they continue to get payed while they are out striking [for better salaries] instead of working.

No-one can go on demonstration/strike for more than a few days without having some financial support.

[pete_r]

I knew it, it would come You people have spoken about vote buying done by PPP and TRT since years here in post after post. When someone asked how you know, answer have been Iv'e heard it or my sisters kusin saw it. Now when someone says that the PAD cronies pays people to join, we hear that it must be wrong, and that someone saw it, it's not good enough No, no, the PAD and the Democrates are all made up of saints It's beyond me how enyone can be so naive

Thank you

[pete_r]

This isn't new or unique to Thailand. For example every larger Union has a strike-treasure to 'help' their members at times of strike by making sure they continue to get payed while they are out striking [for better salaries] instead of working.

No-one can go on demonstration/strike for more than a few days without having some financial support.

AFAIK, the strike-treasures of the Unions come from contributions of their members, so that their power to pay during a strike reflects the determination of their members.

Whereas, I suspect the PAD's protest-treasure comes from a group of rich supporters, and therefore their power to pay reflects the determination of a certain category of wealthy people to destabilize the current government, rather than the determination of Mr and Mrs Somchai who are simply happy to receive 300 Bahts per protest.

[TAWP]

I would say that the actions of the unions back home in many respects are all about the leader-group justifying their own existence even if it means putting small companies out of business for no other reason that they can. Where the treasure chest if used as a toy-box for the ones in power and the members are happy to scream they want higher salaries and get payed while doing it.

The difference is?

[pete_r]

So, no difference I guess. Powerful people paying little people to protest for the wrong reasons in both cases.

Edited July 28, 2008 by pete_r

[NanLaew]

Reading isn't your strong side?

What did I miss TAWP?

[NanLaew]

PAD is buying it's popular support. Because they are not a registered political party, they can do this. Thaksin was arguably a better businessman than Sondhi, getting much richer, much quicker and garnering the top job. Sondhi cannot pick up his toys and go home as they are no longer his toys, so like any other spoiled rich kid, he is determined to break all the toys so nobody can have them.