Great News Or Scam ?

[checkthisout]

Dear Fellow

Wonder if your long experience in pattaya could help me.

After searching and asking many questions around, to find out the best way to easily retire in thailand;

I have just found out an advert, on the "Pattaya Today" newspaper that there is a way to easily retire, even if

you dont have 800,000 in the Bank for 90 days.

I called up the number displayed on the advert and have been kindly told by the manager, (American chap) to attend

a meeting at his office, as certain things could not be discussed over the phone.

Even though the guy showed great confidence, i am still unsure if the all process can be done in the legal way.

I would not like to have a bad start in Thailand.

At the moment I am struggling to sell my house back in Uk and i do not have the all amount available with me.

Am confused and tempted do it at the same time.

At the Immigration they say you need 800,000 or better more, and this guy tells me i don't. Dunno what to do !!

Could you please advice me

Do you smell something ?

Thank you so much for help

[Pushit]

This SMELLS be wary!!

[Data]

At the moment I am struggling to sell my house back in Uk and i do not have the all amount available with me.

Am confused and tempted do it at the same time.

At the Immigration they say you need 800,000 or better more, and this guy tells me i don't. Dunno what to do !!

My understanding is that you simply need to show monthly income of 65,000 THB - The 800,000THB in bank is the alternative. (Source Thai Consulate in Hull UK).

Data

[Nomad97]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

For most people over 50 years of age there are only four options available that will allow you to meet the requirements of a long-stay visa based on marriage or retirement:

1. Be married to a Thai and have a certified, joint-income greater than 40,000 Thai Baht per month.

2. Have a certifed income greater than 65,000 Thai Baht per month.

3. Have more than 800,000 Thai Baht for 3 months each year (prior to visa extension), or,

4. A combination of 2. or 3. - so much per month and a capital sum in the bank on a pro rata basis.

Special provisions apply for people who were grand-fathered under earlier conditions.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Nomad97

[toptuan]

In reality, you can have less than 800K in the bank if your monthly income is up high enough. For example, there've been guys on ThaiVisa who've retired with 400K in the bank and 40k-60k monthly retirement income. In this instance, if you're lucky enough to be an American, the American embassy will write you a letter for confirmation as to your monthly income with no required documentation. I think the Brit embassy requires a little more evidence.

Immigration will approve your retirement visa on a case-by-case basis, often bending the 800k rule.

As to the American tempter, I bet it's a "financial services" deal, where they help you "invest" your money for a higher return, or get you to sell something (insurance?) to boost your monthly income. Or, they want to give you this same advice (maybe even be your representative to do the paperwork and footwork) for a fee.

Be assured, it's not a non-profit offer.

[Jingthing]

Well, unless you say exactly what this guy told you, its hard to judge.

Maybe he is just telling people you can use the COMBO method, a pension/income letter from your embassy combined with Thai bank money to combine to 800K. In that case, NO 90 day seasoning is indeed needed and that is no scam. Maybe he is playing games with helping getting the embassy letter, some embassies require proof of the income stream, while the US does not. If he is doing that to create a fiction, that is a scam. Also, if he wants a big chunk of money for some kind of questionable "investment", common sense is walk away.

I do have a question though. Some people are getting embassy letters for minor income streams, for example a dividend stream of 100K baht per year. Then combined with 700K in a Thai bank theoretically that waive the 90 day seasoning requirement. So the question obviously is there a lower end amount that would cause a problem using the combo method?

Edited August 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

Probably a scam or illegal. Whatever it will cost you.

[roygsd]

Dear Fellow

Wonder if your long experience in pattaya could help me.

After searching and asking many questions around, to find out the best way to easily retire in thailand;

I have just found out an advert, on the "Pattaya Today" newspaper that there is a way to easily retire, even if

you dont have 800,000 in the Bank for 90 days.

I called up the number displayed on the advert and have been kindly told by the manager, (American chap) to attend

a meeting at his office, as certain things could not be discussed over the phone.

Even though the guy showed great confidence, i am still unsure if the all process can be done in the legal way.

I would not like to have a bad start in Thailand.

At the moment I am struggling to sell my house back in Uk and i do not have the all amount available with me.

Am confused and tempted do it at the same time.

At the Immigration they say you need 800,000 or better more, and this guy tells me i don't. Dunno what to do !!

Could you please advice me

Do you smell something ?

Thank you so much for help

Hi,

If a government Department back home told told you what criteria they required you meet and what the legislation published by central government confirmed you need to comply with in order to that you qualify for something you want to recieve and a foreigner iving in your home country told you that you should ignore the legislation and advice from central government and the department responsible for administering your application and ( presumably) pay him or his company a fee and in return he or th ecompany will ensure the department responsible for processing your application will set aside the requirements of the legislation you would be very suspicious ot say the least and quite likely would not part with a penny.

If a guy from Nigeria set you a letter telling you to send his a cheque to process your winnings from a competition you had never entered would you send a cheque?

Its a serious question because many people do each year, the reason they do so is usually because they have allowed their greed to override thier common sense.

Scammers sing the song you want to hear, if you choose to listen to what you want to hear rather than what you need to hear then be prepared to waste your time effort and money.

The farang will not be the person processing your application, neither does he have any infuence in the outcome of your application.

If this person/organisation is 100% confident that their advice is legal and will result in a sucessful outcome for you then presumably they will be happy for you to pay their fee into a legal firm in LOS on the understanding that it will be released to him/them only when you have legally obtained what he/they claim is available to you.

If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is, a fool and his money are easily parted, both of these expressions are longstanding and provide a warning to those that will listen.

Up to you as they say in LOS, please dont let your eagerness to move to LOS and the enevitable problems with the current housing market in selling your home cloud your judgement, sometimes we have to wait a little for what we want,

Good luck

Roy gsd

[Jingthing]

Why don't you give us MORE DETAILS about exactly the plan he proposed? Maybe he is just a visa consultant.

[simon43]

For most people over 50 years of age there are only four options available that will allow you to meet the requirements of a long-stay visa based on marriage or retirement:

[\quote]

Also, for those of us who have fathered (mothered?) a Thai child, we can get a one year visa/visa extension without any money in the bank, and regardless of whether or not we are married (or have been married) to the mother/father

Simon

[sniffdog]

Let me shine a little light on this (without getting the usual responses that it's illegal or a scam, you decide for yourself).

A couple of visa companies (among them I recall Papa above Tops, the owner is an American with a Thai wife) operate a service for those not having the 800,000 baht or the required income.

The process is like this:

- You open a bank book in your own name (the bank will be designated by the visa company).

- Then you give them your passport and two photos

- The 800,000 baht is deposited into your bank book and they apply for the conversion into a non immigrant-O (three months).

This process will cost you 15,000 baht (approx)

- They will keep the bank book and apply for an extension of 12 months.

This process will cost you 20,000 baht (approx)

The bank book is kept by them.

It takes about 3-4 days before the retirement visa is delivered. The stamp is legit and issued by the Pattaya Immigration Police.

This has nothing to do with (Nigerian) scammers or whatever. I've seen a couple of passport who were waiting to be delivered to customers. It even came with the sticker which reminded the visa holder to

report every 90 days.

I am sure that they service quite a few customers per month. Again, if it's illegal or not ... you decide.

Edited August 4, 2008 by sniffdog

[Jingthing]

How could it possibly take only three days to get the extension when first time retirement extensions always require 90 day seasoning of the money, when the qualifying method is 800K in the bank????? Oh, BTW, sounds illegal, yes?

To be honest, this kind of pisses me off. This is the kind of thing that makes legit expats lives more insecure. People trying to play games to game the system, and then a constant game of cat and mouse where next year immigration creates even more ridiculous hoops all people, legit and gamers, need to jump through. So we all suffer in the long term for these grey area scams.

BTW, I do think the need to season money for 90 days rule is one of those ridiculous rules. If someone wants to borrow money to show it in an account, whats to stop them from paying interest for 3 months, in no way does it prevent what they are trying to prevent, exactly what these visa firms are doing, people qualifying without actually owning the money!

Another point, to the OP, it sounds like you need a bridge loan. I suggest you NOT give your money to such a SLEAZY visa operation. I don't think we should support such operations! Do you have a good friend or relative who can loan you the money for a few months? Much better idea, and pay them some interest for the bother. Then transfer that to Thailand, and pay back your friend or relative.

Yet another point. Supposing these operations are arrested. Then, they might go after the people who got their extensions using them. A big risk? Probably not, but why take such a risk if you don't have to.

Yet another technical point: monies used to qualify for the extension are supposed to be foreign monies wired from abroad, and immigration has been known to check this and actually ask for specific documentation for each transfer, especially the ORIGINAL transfer for the first retirement extension.

Final point: How much do you want to bet that these SLEAZY VISA firms will NOT post a rebuttal to my criticisms? They pay for ads in the local sleazy press, but do you think they would publicly defend the legality of what they are doing here? Assuming I am right about that, doesn't that tell you all you need to know about the kind of businesses they are?

Edited August 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

To be honest, this kind of pisses me off. This is the kind of thing that makes legit expats lives more insecure. People trying to play games to game the system, and then a constant game of cat and mouse where next year immigration creates even more ridiculous hoops all people, legit and gamers, need to jump through. So we all suffer in the long term for these grey area scams.

I could not agree more JT. This was one of the reasons the 3 month rule was brought in.

As you said how are they getting away with this rule. Suggests some dodgy dealings with Immigration Officials.

[Artisi]

" Could you please advice me

Do you smell something ?

Thank you so much for help "

You have been warned. Stay legitimate - a lot less problems long term.

Are you already here on a visa - yes - extend it while you sort yourself out or head back to the UK for a period and come back again when your house sale is being finalised etc etc.

If no - you might have to come and go for awhile while you sort things out - remember the money needs to be in the bank 90 days minimum before applying for the retirement visa.

[Jingthing]

Yes, it does indeed sound like a inside arrangement $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with immigration. And here I thought everything there was on the up and up! So, as immigration are also police, maybe that means this gravy train game won't be disrupted. But you know, there can always be power changes with police.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[Royale]

Let me shine a little light on this (without getting the usual responses that it's illegal or a scam, you decide for yourself).

A couple of visa companies (among them I recall Papa above Tops, the owner is an American with a Thai wife) operate a service for those not having the 800,000 baht or the required income.

The process is like this:

- You open a bank book in your own name (the bank will be designated by the visa company).

- Then you give them your passport and two photos

- The 800,000 baht is deposited into your bank book and they apply for the conversion into a non immigrant-O (three months).

This process will cost you 15,000 baht (approx)

- They will keep the bank book and apply for an extension of 12 months.

This process will cost you 20,000 baht (approx)

The bank book is kept by them.

It takes about 3-4 days before the retirement visa is delivered. The stamp is legit and issued by the Pattaya Immigration Police.

This has nothing to do with (Nigerian) scammers or whatever. I've seen a couple of passport who were waiting to be delivered to customers. It even came with the sticker which reminded the visa holder to

report every 90 days.

I am sure that they service quite a few customers per month. Again, if it's illegal or not ... you decide.

I've been told exactly the same, but only here in Phuket. When i asked about the 3 month rule i was told that someone in immigration overlooks this for a fee. The only difference to your info is that i was told it costs 25.000 in all.

[sniffdog]

Glad you find out Jingthing...... yes of course it's an inside arrangement. When I was in the office of Papa, a couple of them came in the office for a meeting and it seemed they were very friendly with the owners, his wife and the staff ....

No seasoning necessary nor the requirement to have 21 days left on your visa when converting ...

About the borrowing money tip ... according to Lopburi that's illegal too .... we had a discussion in another thread and by PM. I told him that I see nowhere stated that the money has to be your own. He thinks otherwise.

These companies involved are well established companies with other business too like travel and/or real estate. Do you really think they would jeopardize that by scamming people out of 35,000 baht? These are not transactions done on the corner of Walking Street ...

Paranoia about 2 days overstay and judging about 'illegal' things .. typical TV.

Edited August 4, 2008 by sniffdog

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Dear Fellow

Wonder if your long experience in pattaya could help me.

After searching and asking many questions around, to find out the best way to easily retire in thailand;

I have just found out an advert, on the "Pattaya Today" newspaper that there is a way to easily retire, even if

you dont have 800,000 in the Bank for 90 days.

I called up the number displayed on the advert and have been kindly told by the manager, (American chap) to attend

a meeting at his office, as certain things could not be discussed over the phone.

Even though the guy showed great confidence, i am still unsure if the all process can be done in the legal way.

I would not like to have a bad start in Thailand.

At the moment I am struggling to sell my house back in Uk and i do not have the all amount available with me.

Am confused and tempted do it at the same time.

At the Immigration they say you need 800,000 or better more, and this guy tells me i don't. Dunno what to do !!

Could you please advice me

Do you smell something ?

Thank you so much for help

What page is the ad on?  I just did a quick scan of the paper and must have missed it.  Throught I'd scan the ad and post for all to review.

Mac

[sniffdog]

If it's from Papa, usually on the front page. But don't bother to scan it .... you can't make any conclusions out of it.

[Jingthing]

That firm is indeed well connected. So, when you give them your business, you are participating in Grade A Thai style CORRUPTION. With your PASSPORT which should indeed be considered very valuable to you. Up to you, I suppose, if you are that DESPERATE.

If we are wrong about all this, to be fair, the participating firms are more than welcome to post on here and explain how what they are doing is LEGIT. I think it is fair to assume they have internet access.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[Naam]

Probably a scam or illegal. Whatever it will cost you.

it is indeed illegal but feasible and it is going on since years. cost is ~25k Baht.

[Lite Beer]

Probably a scam or illegal. Whatever it will cost you.

it is indeed illegal but feasible and it is going on since years. cost is ~25k Baht.

Good to see that corruption is still alive and kicking within the Thai Immigration Police.

Why do the rest of us bother to stay here legit?

[RubbaJohnny]

Its nicer than back there ?

$11 acoffee in new york riots in Paris knifing in London Yobbos in Cronulla and dont even mention Moscow or Howdy Arabia no thanks

I often wonder how long the regime and immi will take to realise the 800k be deposited with them

Itll start at 90 days then a million then why not 6 months and eventually you may end up having to contribute 12 months which effectively is a permanent bung

I guess I like many would pay it so long as I can afford to

End up contributing to thai society just like all those developed places and their taxes!

Perhaps get relief on depreciating health partner and buffalo.

[dotcom]

So in essence it's a money lending scheme.

If you try it & it works - congratulations.

N.B. Why couldn't they loan you the money for the legal 90 days? Seeing as how they hold the passbook.

[RAZZELL]

Similar scam in Samui. Passport get's sent abroad.

Don't know what happens when you get to the computer at immigration though

RAZZ

[Maestro]

Similar scam in Samui. Passport get's sent abroad...

Sent abroad for an extension of stay? I think you are being off topic here.

--

Maestro

[bob4you]

I was asked by drew to post this reply as I forwarded it to him and he got it on a computer that did not have his password therefore could not post the reply himself.

PAPPA writes: Some of these posts are true. And it is also true that there is some corruption around, but everything our company does is within the rules. BUT not everyone knows the rules! And they keep changing. We call Bangkok Immigration almost every day and ask questions about specific situations our clients need help clearing with Immigration to get a visa. We get answers because they know us and know we are helping people who are having real difficulty. The ad in the Pattaya Today is to help those without 800,000 baht in the bank just as it states. A free consultation is given in which our firm reviews for the pensioner:

1) His bank balance over the last year in a Thai bank (if applicable)

2) His pension income to show 65,000 baht per month in place of 800,000 baht (many pensioners do not know they can do this)

3) His ability to qualify with a combo. As one astute contributor to the forum notes, combining less than 800,000 baht in a Thai bank with pension income of less than 65,000 baht per month will qualify. For example, if the client has 45,000 baht in pension income monthly and 240,000 baht in the bank then we can get them a visa.

We NEVER keep anyone's passport, not do we EVER lend money to anyone for any reason.

There have been times when a pensioner did not qualify for exceptional reasons, yet we are able to get a one year non-immigrant visa for our client by filing a Proposal for Consideration to Immigration. If we have to go to Bangkok to the big bosses to get the permission we will. Contrary to many people think, Thai Immigration will help pensioners as much as possible as long as the solution is within their GUIDELINES. My company has the guidelines Immigration follows and good contacts there so we know how to phrase requests for consideration and how to service our clients. For the last six years we have been helping Expats get visas, negotiate overstay penalties, record mortgages to protect their Thai property that is in the name of a Thai company or Thai person, make Last Will & Testaments in Thailand, create prenuptial agreements that hold up in any country and provide many more legal services.

When we have a visa client, we then remind them a month before their visa expires to renew so they have no lapse in their visa. Many Thaivisa.com forum contributors are really great guys who have a Thainess about them and are EXACTLY who Thai Immigration wants. They have assimilated into the culture by having a Thai family or an understanding of Thai culture.

Some old-timers will remember when they got a one year retirement visa with 250,000 baht in the bank. Then 6 years ago the minimum bank balance went up to 500,000 baht. Four years ago it went up to 800,000 baht. Two years ago the minimum was not raised but the requirement to have it in the bank for 3 months was put into effect.

With inflation and the rising cost of food, fuel, housing and electricity there is discussion within the Ministry of the Interior (which governs Immigration) to raise the minimum to 1,000,000 baht or higher.

HOWEVER, those pentioners who keep their visa current, without a lapse, will be grandfathered in and will only have to remain under the rule in effect at the time they got their visa. In our free consultations with pensioners we find about 15% who are simply renewing a visa and we inform them that they are still able to qualify under the rule in effect when they first got their visa. We tell them how to do it themselves. We get 90% of our paying clients from referrals.I hope this clears this matter up. We enjoy Thaivisa's forum very much and like to support it all we can.

Thanks Bob4You!

Sincerely,

Drew Noyes

Managing Director

PAPPA Co., Ltd.

448/21 Thepprasit Road, Ground Floor. Kan Keha Tower 1

Pattaya, Chonburi 20260 THAILAND

office 038.301.050, International +66.38.301.050

mobile:084.111.7999, International +66.84.111.7999

fax 038.301.045, International +66.38.301.045

Reason for edit: url removed

[Patriciachas]

Let me shine a little light on this (without getting the usual responses that it's illegal or a scam, you decide for yourself).

A couple of visa companies (among them I recall Papa above Tops, the owner is an American with a Thai wife) operate a service for those not having the 800,000 baht or the required income.

The process is like this:

- You open a bank book in your own name (the bank will be designated by the visa company).

- Then you give them your passport and two photos

- The 800,000 baht is deposited into your bank book and they apply for the conversion into a non immigrant-O (three months).

This process will cost you 15,000 baht (approx)

- They will keep the bank book and apply for an extension of 12 months.

This process will cost you 20,000 baht (approx)

The bank book is kept by them.

It takes about 3-4 days before the retirement visa is delivered. The stamp is legit and issued by the Pattaya Immigration Police.

This has nothing to do with (Nigerian) scammers or whatever. I've seen a couple of passport who were waiting to be delivered to customers. It even came with the sticker which reminded the visa holder to

report every 90 days.

I am sure that they service quite a few customers per month. Again, if it's illegal or not ... you decide.

It make no difference if they keep the bank book or not you could still withdraw funds from the account if it is in your name and you opened the account,only a matter of time until that is done.

[checkthisout]

At the moment I am struggling to sell my house back in Uk and i do not have the all amount available with me.

Am confused and tempted do it at the same time.

At the Immigration they say you need 800,000 or better more, and this guy tells me i don't. Dunno what to do !!

My understanding is that you simply need to show monthly income of 65,000 THB - The 800,000THB in bank is the alternative. (Source Thai Consulate in Hull UK).

Data

HI Data

You mean 65,000 THB from the Uk Account or thai account ?

or do i need to have a business here ? though dont think so .. is that right ?

[checkthisout]

Why don't you give us MORE DETAILS about exactly the plan he proposed? Maybe he is just a visa consultant.

I have attached the advert, thank you.