Giving To Beggars

[girlx]

i have heard that most beggars in thailand are controlled by gangs and that you should not give to them or you perpetuate a bad situation in which they have all their money snatched away from them by some gang leader and are beaten if they have not gotten enough... on the other hand, if you give them money they don't get beaten! or you could give them food! it can't be nice crawling around on a city street with your baby begging from people, or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

[kmart]

Don't go giving them any money, they'll only waste it on rubbish like prosthetic limbs and stuff.

*sorry*

As far as i know, the begging (around tourist spots, anyway), is organized by local gangs obviously with the tacit nod from the Kingdom's finest. A lot of the beggars themselves seem to be from Cambodia / Laos, and the beggars I see around Rayong seem to be mostly amputees or people afflicted with some other terrible condition.

I think the best thing you could give them might be bit of food or clothing, that the local Fagin won't immediately confiscate from the poor sods.

[AFKAFSinLOS]

Very tough call, and one I'm never sure of the answer to. Thinking with your heart, if you don't give you feel mean, and it goes against your compassion. Thinking with your head: if you do give you help perpetuate it, and it perhaps goes against your wisdom. If no-one gave anything to the beggars then there would be no incentive for the gangs, and maybe just maybe the government might act have to correct the original issues. The worst are the gangs that mutilate other people so they can make even more money...

Personally I struggle to find a balance between wisdom and compassion on this one... It's one of the situations that was much simpler and easier to deal with when I first arrived and didn't understand what was behind the scenes. Ignorance was bliss, when you just used to give some money and "know" you were doing the right thing...

Edited August 5, 2008 by AFKAFSinLOS

[kiakaha]

i have heard that most beggars in thailand are controlled by gangs and that you should not give to them or you perpetuate a bad situation in which they have all their money snatched away from them by some gang leader and are beaten if they have not gotten enough... on the other hand, if you give them money they don't get beaten! or you could give them food! it can't be nice crawling around on a city street with your baby begging from people, or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

the bloke who drags himself along the pavement between sukhumvit sois 5/7/7-1 has a wife and kid and a little abode on soi 7-1..i've seen him up and walking around very proficiently on his crutches...nice little money earner he's got going

i wont give to beggers.period.

however if someone is doing something like busking, then i might drop a few baht (if they are any good)

[PREM-R]

I was walking up the steps to the BTS at Sala Daeng (Silom) one evening and came across a very sad young girl who had her hands and feet badly deformed. Having just left O'Reillys bar and being "full of cheer" I placed a 500 baht note in the collecting pot on top of the few baht coins already there, as I reached the top of the steps I looked back to see a young man removing the 500 baht note, at the time I assumed he was just a thief but I have since learned that these unfortunates are merely props for mafia gangs so he was just "taking care" of the money for her.

Edited August 5, 2008 by PREM-R

[farangene]

...nice crawling around on a city street with your baby begging from people, or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

the bloke who drags himself along the pavement between sukhumvit sois 5/7/7-1 has a wife and kid and a little abode on soi 7-1..i've seen him up and walking around very proficiently on his crutches...nice little money earner he's got going

...

The "night crawler" doesn't live on 7/1, he just changes into his "work uniform" there. He commutes to work every day on his motorcycle along with his family.

He can become remarkably ambulatory when the cops are cracking down and picking up/arresting the beggars which is pretty rare. One time, I watched him raise himself from his slow worm-like crawl to do a quick one-legged sprint up the BTS escalator to avoid the cops but they caught him hiding inside the BTS station. Unaware observers were probably astounded to witness this miracle change.

Isn't it nice that he has multiple generations involved in the family business? I guess it is tough to be a one legged person in Thailand where having a disability generally mean that you will never get a half-way decent job. Sometimes begging is the only option.

[cloudhopper]

There are none here but when I run across one down in CM I usually drop some Baht.

[thaiman]

your money do what you want with it.

But, if you give them money you are keeping them on the streets not off.

[onzestan]

i have heard that most beggars in thailand are controlled by gangs and that you should not give to them or you perpetuate a bad situation in which they have all their money snatched away from them by some gang leader and are beaten if they have not gotten enough... on the other hand, if you give them money they don't get beaten! or you could give them food! it can't be nice crawling around on a city street with your baby begging from people, or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

Had to fit the X word in didn't you. How revealing.

onzestan

[2008bangkok]

As a rule if they look like they cant earn a living themselves then i will drop some money there way regardless of whether 'mafia' people recive it or not.. but what i dont understand is how these mafia end up with it anyway? are they giving them a roof and food in return they have to beg for it??

but yeah if they look like they need it then il give it..

[Samuian]

In the kingdom they would have a place in the temples!

It's a "job" to most of them, as here on Samui, there were times when there weren't any!

Nowadays they seem to increase day by day!

is it the money given to them?

I am quite sure it is...as the flower kids have almost disappeared.

[kiakaha]

i have also heard (although can't confirm the truth in it) that some beggers with limbs missing removed them deliberately so they can garnish more favor as professional beggers.

[mizzi39]

This is purely a personal judgment call, as I do not think that it comes down to a matter of "right or wrong" when it comes to giving to beggars or the less fortunate.

[Sabum]

Well its simple really, give money to gangsters or not? Forget about the beggar, they dont get any. Your compassion is feeding gangsters.

[sgtpeppers]

or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

That seems like a legitimate trade, not begging. I've only ever seen the children around romantic restaurants btw, and these little buggers are selling the b grade roses for 5 and 10 baht each, sometimes asking for 20 baht. They are probably worth about 2 baht at the market.

I gave 10 baht to an hobbling old woman begger the other day. She had a sad looking face and I felt sorry for her. She started following me but I quickened the pace and lost her.

[cynthialee]

or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

That seems like a legitimate trade, not begging. I've only ever seen the children around romantic restaurants btw!

nana plaza is where many a romance start s sir....

[uptou]

I only give to people without limbs.Giving money to begging children is like patting them on the back & telling them to do exactly the same thing tomorrow.

[Groongthep]

Although I haven't seen her in months now , there used to be a young woman with 2 children who would beg just below the Asoke BTS Station near the escalators to the MRT. As time passed I paid closer attention to her kids and noticed that they weren't always the same kids. Different days...different kids. Obviously, she was just exploiting these children to get money. It worked. As time went on she gained more and more weight and began wearing better and better clothing until she looked better off than many of the people she was begging money from. As I used this BTS station nearly every day I saw her as often and would give her nothing but a disapproving frown. I could tell from the look on her face that she knew that I was on to her scam and she began looking away embarrassed every time I walked by. Tourists just kept giving her money.

One the other hand, I do sometimes give a 10 baht coin to a blind person who is begging. This is because I have at times seen these blind beggars away from tourist areas begging from everyday Thais. The fact that the locals give them money leads me to believe that they may truly be in need and not working some sort of scam.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Groongthep

[Swanky]

I don't give money to beggars, even blind beggars have a 'minder' who collects money on their behalf. Beggars have to do something before I will give money, juggle, sing, etc.

[Tod Daniels]

While I am not one to relate heart-wrenching tales to forum reader's about the native inhabitants of this country, I will relate this to;

There was an old lady who begged by my apartment near Asok and Sukhumvit. She had no fingers on either of her hands, just stubs and thumbs. She also was missing half of one leg, and half her foot on the other side. Sometimes she'd sleep on cardboard at the crossover under the BTS line.

I started watching her right after I moved here, as I walked past her 3 or 4 times a day. She never waved her begging cup jingling change, never wai'd piteously with beggar's eyes, but always said, "Sa-wat-dii ka" and smiled at me. (Surprising actually because very few thais EVER smile or initiate conversation with me) Despite her terrible disability she was doing what she could to live. Once in the early morning I saw here washing herself at a hose spigot by Leader Price, and she could barely tie her dress (being with out fingers as she was).

I then decided as a personal choice to start to give her money; every 2 weeks I'd give her 500 baht. I even set my phone to remind me so I didn't forget. I NEVER was showy about it, NEVER put it in her cup, always squatted down, chatted with her a few minutes and surreptitiously put it in her pocket or the small purse/bag she had. I did this for nearly two years.

One day after not seeing her in a while, I saw her begging near my house again. Sadly she looked much the worse for wear, had fresh bandages and wasn't looking good at all (and she was quite frail to begin with). I was in a hurry, to make an appointment, and told her I'd see her when I returned.

Unfortunately, when I got back to my home area she was already gone. The next day another beggar in the area told me after she left, she'd died. Evidently, she was at the room where the beggars stay, was taking a shower, fell and hit her head, went into a coma and died on the way to the hospital.

When I do something charitable; I prefer to do as the thais say; (ปิดทองหลังพระ) Bpid-thong-lang-Phra or; "Put gold (leaf) on the back of a Buddha (image). I didn't give her money for recognition, I did it to help better her life in a small way.

Although she died many months ago I still wonder IF I'd have just taken a few minutes of my time to go get change and gave her the 500 baht like I always did; would it have made a difference in her living or dying? I don't know. ..

As it is your money, what you do with it, is after all your decision.

It is true the beggars are either run by the mafia, who bus them to tourist areas early in the morning or far more likely and prevalent are "teams or groups"; where a several beggars from the same area will pool resources, have a small room, share food, and try to watch out for one another.

As an aside; unless I am mistaken, I was told by a thai that the blind karaoke beggars you see are given those machines by some government branch, (as they're all the same brand of machines), and it's a way they can generate income.

That guy with one leg cut off who crawls along Sukhumvit, I've named "inch-worm", and that other guy I call "spine-boy" with the humpback who wai's incessantly are really a pleasant guys to chat with.

[Familyonthemove]

Just don't do it.

Find a legitimate organisation that provides real help - not easy as you'll need to check them out yourself, and make regular payments as they may depend on your income for projects.

The more money given out on the streets, the more kids will be 'bought' to beg on the streets.

I visited an impressive locally-run operation in Cambodia that repatriates child beggars (and worse) from Bangkok and Saigon and helps them to settle back into a more normal life. The kids were sold by desperate parents to street gangs who send them out begging. There'd be no market for this if people didn't give money on the street.

I've also seen Indian mothers in Bombay renting out their babies to street gangs so they can let young girls carry the (drugged) babies around at traffic lights to boost their begging earnings. This is the most extreme form of child labour yet it is ignored by the authorities.

I sometimes feel that people give to beggars for their own reasons as it makes them feel better about themselves. This is a natural reaction but it is counter productive for the recipients in the long run.

My way of being able to walk passed Bombay beggars without developing self-loathing was to pay direct donations to a local Girls orphange. I visited it myself to see it was OK. After a couple of years I developed 'beggar blindness' - which is a common survival technique in India. it works fine in Bangkok too.

[kyb789]

I watched some begger from a window on Sukhumvit once. In about 30 minutes he had put away about 100 baht. When his cup got too many coins, he put the money in his pocket. That's about 800baht for 8 hrs of begging, tax free. Now a factory worker or restaurant staff will make 300 baht per day and work a 12 hr shift.

Once I even gave a small bag of fruit to a begger. She gave me a dirty look and tossed the bag to her side.

A Thai friend told me the blind guys singing karaote from a box will take in 2,000baht per day.

[cynthialee]

yr thai friend told you wrong.....lol.

2000 a day , they work a lot, say 30 dasys amonth. thats 1800$ a month, thats hi so status for beggars............lol!

[mmushr00m]

I give to the old, especially the granfathers/grandmothers playing their wind-pipes. Also the severly burned lady that you see at jaktujak.

TiT there is no old age security for the old and infirmed

[007]

i have heard that most beggars in thailand are controlled by gangs and that you should not give to them or you perpetuate a bad situation in which they have all their money snatched away from them by some gang leader and are beaten if they have not gotten enough... on the other hand, if you give them money they don't get beaten! or you could give them food! it can't be nice crawling around on a city street with your baby begging from people, or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

Everyone(?) knows that most beggars have been bussed from eastern Cambodia to Thailand by organised Thai gangs, whose members get rich by exploiting those begging handicapped people and/or little children. The beggars themselves do NOT benefit from your donation. Do NOT support the criminal gangs, but give the beggars some food instead.

Exceptions can be made in case of genuine Thai beggars (see post above), e.g. old people who don't have family or income anymore to support themselves.

Edited August 5, 2008 by 7

[cynthialee]

do not tell people what to do with their money, its very rude!

give the beggars a bath!

Edited August 5, 2008 by cynthialee

[PoorSucker]

or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

That seems like a legitimate trade, not begging. I've only ever seen the children around romantic restaurants btw, and these little buggers are selling the b grade roses for 5 and 10 baht each, sometimes asking for 20 baht. They are probably worth about 2 baht at the market.

I gave 10 baht to an hobbling old woman begger the other day. She had a sad looking face and I felt sorry for her. She started following me but I quickened the pace and lost her.

All the rose girls here on Samui are from Myanmar whre they have been sold to gang to pay the parents debts.

Modern slavery.

[Fatdog]

The other half and me were in Pattaya for a weekend in May, we were walking along 2nd Road, close to Soi 13. There was a young woman with a baby sitting on the pavement with a tin. The GF put 10 baht in the tin I put another 20 baht.

About an hour later I went to the Faimily Mart to buy beer.

As I was paying for the beer I got a tap on my shoulder, it was the young woman from before, she handed me a 50 baht note, see indicated that had fallen from my pocket when I paid for the beer.

After that I have no problem giving some money to beggers, there may be scams and maybe run by gangs, but not all the time.

FD

[RakJungTorlae]

i have heard that most beggars in thailand are controlled by gangs and that you should not give to them or you perpetuate a bad situation in which they have all their money snatched away from them by some gang leader and are beaten if they have not gotten enough... on the other hand, if you give them money they don't get beaten! or you could give them food! it can't be nice crawling around on a city street with your baby begging from people, or being a 5 year old kid selling roses to sex tourists at 1am.... what do you think?

Everyone(?) knows that most beggars have been bussed from eastern Cambodia to Thailand by organised Thai gangs, whose members get rich by exploiting those begging handicapped people and/or little children. The beggars themselves do NOT benefit from your donation. Do NOT support the criminal gangs, but give the beggars some food instead.

Exceptions can be made in case of genuine Thai beggars (see post above), e.g. old people who don't have family or income anymore to support themselves.

Yes this is true . The handy caped and children will be ran by gangs , the other half who are elderly and poor will be with police. But only depending on the area. If In the suburbs no. In the city centers sure cops will keep an eye out.

giving the kids food is not such a wise idea. Because if there "Uncle" found out they get a beating. Or if someone's keeping an eye out down the Road .you might just get the beating.

Me and my friends use to purposely do this, give the kids food. Cup noodles or some fruit and make sure they eat it . yes time to time there guardian will come and tell us to F@k off . Sometimes we gave them a good beating. And sometimes we needed stitches.

My advice.. Some elderly would pretty much benefit form a few baht. A beer from 7 maybe too.lol. The kids well if you are prepared to stand your ground only. Don't give them anything.

Edited August 5, 2008 by RakJungTorlae

[cynthialee]

what i dont like is seeing beggars who breastfeed in public. i always have to look twice to make sure im seeing what im seeing

i think its a scam so i spend more at nana!